Hi Everyone,

JL, thank you so much for making me laugh at myself! You really offered me a perspective that I never even considered before. Sometimes I am pretty clueless, but that is what growth and learning are all about. I took your comments to heart and will continue to try to look at things from this point of view.

As far as the circus, it was a lot of fun, but XBF didn't attend. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I wish I could say that I held my composure and didn't LB, but I can't. I held it in for a half of the day, but then he called and it hit a trigger in me so I LB'd.

Saturday morning, on the telephone, he decides to tell me that he feels obligated to come and that he wanted to pass on the invitation. He said that we could discuss this at the ice skating rink. I told him that he wasn't obligated, that we were all disappointed if he didn't join us, but that we would have a good time regardless. I also told him that I would give him his ticket because it was purchased for him, in case he changed his mind. When I saw him at the lessons, I gave him the ticket. We hardly said anything to each other.

In the afternoon he called again, and informed me that he wanted me to take my neice or sister with me. He felt that the ticket shouldn't go to waste. He put the ticket in my son's pocket without telling me. I was really hurt and felt VERY rejected at this point. All of the "OLD" memories of the times when I'd make plans and he'd blow me off surfaced, andI simply let out my pain. I told him that I didn't want to give the ticket to anyone else because that pattern is what led me to another man. I felt that if he chose not to come, it was his decision but I wasn't going to replace him again. Things got pretty ugly and many things were said by both of us. I felt very guilty afterwards, and became really hopeless that this situation can ever have a happy ending. He has made so many judgements about me, and no matter what I do, he doesn't want to open his eyes or heart.

Before I went to the circus, I called him back and I was sobbing like a little kid. I called to apologize to him for my behavior and I expressed how much it hurt me that I let the ugliness take over. I told him that I didn't want to fight with him. It seems like our fights are more intense now, than they have ever been, and it's scary to think that we can be so cruel to each other. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

JL - You asked what it is that I'm afraid to face. The answer is that I want to deal with both. I am afraid to face both his anger and pain. I'm afraid that he will always hate me and see me as he does now. I'm afraid that if I keep opening up to him, he will continue to "punish" me for all of the faults that I had in the past. I'm afraid that he will never dig beyond his surface emotions and allow himself the room to heal. I know that I can never live up to the expectations that he has for me, and I'm afraid that he will always resent me for this.

Some of the most hurtful and scariest points that he raised this weekend were:

1. DS is only his family. Me and my older boy are not HIS family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
-We lived together for 8 years. He raised my OS from the time he was 4 and was involved in his life from the time he was conceived.

2. This relationship was not working from the moment it started 14 years ago.
-Sure, we made a lot of mistakes over the years. I deifnatley am not the person I was then and neither is he. Why is all of THAT stuff being judged now?

3. He sees me as a very unhappy person. He says that EVERY time we talk, it's always a complaint or argument.
-I don't see myself as being unhappy, I'm trying to be vulnerable and I'm trying to let him see what is going on inside. He told me he would listen, but now he's telling me that sharing is the wrong thing to do. I'm not demanding when I open up, I'm just stating what it is I feel without any blame. This scares me because I feel like it's not okay for me to be my "real" self around him.

I'm really at a loss now for what to do next. I am so close to screwing this all up! I'm starting to wonder if my goals are realistic anymore.

All for now. I will add more to this when the emotional stage has passed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He felt that the ticket shouldn't go to waste. He put the ticket in my son's pocket without telling me. I was really hurt and felt VERY rejected at this point. All of the "OLD" memories of the times when I'd make plans and he'd blow me off surfaced, andI simply let out my pain. I told him that I didn't want to give the ticket to anyone else because that pattern is what led me to another man. I felt that if he chose not to come, it was his decision but I wasn't going to replace him again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My opinion, Kily, is to try and refrain from comments such as these. Trying to be in his shoes, and hearing this, sort of stung me.

I know what you meant, and you meant well. But...then again, your exBF doesn't have the privilege of reading and re-reading. You "sort of" may have misled him into feeling that an action of HIS led you apart. That may be true, but now is not the time to remind him of that.

You can talk about what he has done to hurt you, or what you have done to hurt him. Just try not to emphasize right now the part OM played in your life, and how you got there. Especially if he may take it that it was HIS fault (although he may have had a large hand in it).

You're working on getting him to open up and trust you again. Don't put him in a defensive mode right now.

Kily, my honest to God gut feeling is that this is going to work out. I feel very confident about that.

Just like we are supposed to temper justice with mercy, you need to temper your feelings with patience. But...you still need to be confident and let him see that. You need to let him feel that it would take more than he THINKS to drive you away, again.

My 2cents.

Boo

Hi Boo,

Thanks for the insight.

I never meant for that comment to place blame on him or to make him feel guilty. I was trying to communicate to him that I was responsible for feeling rejection because it was an expectation on my part. I was trying to take responsibility for my actions and wanted to illustrate the difference in my mind set from that time to the present.

The issue became large for me because it was one of the things that I had to understand about myself and change. I had a pattern of "needing" to have someone to do things with and if I didn't I felt rejected. In sharing this with him. I wanted him to see that I identified this past behavior and I CHANGED my mindset completely about it. I never meant to imply that it was HIS fault for not doing things with me. I don't believe for a moment that he is "responsible" or is the "cause" for my decisions and I don't ever want him to feel that he was. It's quite the reverse. I was trying to say "See I used to be this way and now I can be alone and enjoy myself and it's okay".

I didn't see how this would be interpreted by him and now that you've pointed it out, I see it very clearly. I just wanted to tell him that he means everything to me and no one else could take his place.

Regardless, what's done is done and I can't take back the damage that I caused. It's a daily battle and I have learned a new lesson.

At least the war isn't over because he seems to be calling me more frequently. I had plans to see "Les Miserables" on Sunday and I know that he found reasons to spend time with me and DS before the play and also to call me after the play. OF course everything centered around my DS, but they were calls to me just the same. Also during the evening call, he expressed one of the "pet-peeves" he has about my approach to solving problems so I know that JL is right in that I still have some sort of "power" type of effect on him. He is still trying to "fix" me so I didn't completely kill my chances.

Monday he also called me a few times about DS, but most of it was trivial! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm not complaining though, because he called.

He also called first thing this morning to wish me a Happy Birthday. I was touched, but we both had our guards up for some reason. I was suprised that he cared enough to even give me a greeting I just hope it wasn't because he felt obligated to.

You wrote:
Kily, my honest to God gut feeling is that this is going to work out. I feel very confident about that.

I hope so much for this to be true. I really appreciate your support and words. They've lifted me up and helped me regain some of the spirit to fight for this. You're also right about needing to have confidence and patience. I'm learning and I will continue to slip up, but I'm getting better at forgiving myself for my faults and picking myself up again. I think that this is where the "grace" that JL commented on comes in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also during the evening call, he expressed one of the "pet-peeves" he has about my approach to solving problems so I know that JL is right in that I still have some sort of "power" type of effect on him. He is still trying to "fix" me so I didn't completely kill my chances. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmm...I wonder why he wants to see you "fixed"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Typically, I wouldn't care if something was "fixed", unless I needed it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sounds like he may have some "interest" in this relationship?

Also, Kily, the times that you sense him as "cold" or "distant" are normal. When you have a "good" time together, it will naturally cause him to raise his defenses again, as he feels that power that JL spoke about that you have over him. The next time you are together, he remembers that feeling. He tries to prevent those from surfacing again, while he does some heavy pondering over them.

I'll bet if you could detail your times together, it would be one of "positive, negative, positive, negative, etc." I would bet that after you have a time together that you feel as positive, the next time together you will sense him as the "cold" you spoke of. Don't worry about it. It's gonna happen. He's testing the waters.

Ahhhh...the proverbial rollercoaster.

Remember, Kily, in your situation, bad attention is better than NO attention. That's corresponds with what Sharon was speaking of in regards to conflict.

Simply having his attention is good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He also called first thing this morning to wish me a Happy Birthday. I was touched, but we both had our guards up for some reason. I was suprised that he cared enough to even give me a greeting I just hope it wasn't because he felt obligated to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to on your other post, but got sidetracked. So.....HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Anyway, the call to wish you a Happy Birthday is telling, I think. His guard being up, as you call it, is to be expected, too. He's still tiptoeing. He deeply wants to say he cares, without saying he cares. Understand what I mean?

If he felt obligated to call you, then it is because he feels obligated to his feelings. Not simply because he feels obligated to you. I honestly don't believe that I would call the WW and wish her a happy b'day. I know I didn't call and mention our anniversary a couple weeks back. Why? Because it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Your birthday is still special to HIM, as well as you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

When you sense a "withdrawn" exBF, shake it off. He will withdraw temporarily to "think".

You're doing good, Kily. Keep us posted.

Boo

Kily,
Just as I told Sharon, I had to read a few posts before starting my work project this evening. Yours was one of them , of course!

I am sorry he didn't go to the circus, don't take that so badly. I think that it is still so positive that he called to say Happy Birthday to you. That, to me, is a huge sign that he still cares so much. Just be patient, and give it time! I certainly haven't received birthday wishes in years from ExH, so I think this says a lot about how your xBF feels.

You do hold a lot of power over him, and I think he truly cares so much for you. That's why he's torn about being around you. Like Boo said, it's the defenses thing.

I do need to get to that silly project. Once again, hope you had a good birthday. Keep positive about your exBF, to me it's looking good.

God Bless,
hp

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the feedback. It helps so much to have ou guys to talk to.

I wanted to give you all a Birthday Update......

XBF, DS, and I actually went to dinner last night. I was suprised that HE wanted to take me and we had a pretty fun night together.

After dinner, we were departng and DS wanted to come home with me so we could carve some jack-o-lanterns. He gave DAD a hug and said goodbye, As DAD stood up, I asked him "Can I have one too?" and he said "YES"!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So I hugged him! As I got close to him I said "Honey, I love you"! and I rubbed his shoulder blades the way I used to. We both let go and went our separate ways.

It was so amazing when we were wrapped up in the embrace because it felt as if at that moment like we never parted! It's so hard to describe. I felt so connected and so at home in his arms. My telling him those words was the most natural thing to do. He didn't stiffen, or pull away, or anything! It was such an honest and natural exchange . It was so wonderful.

Reflecting on it now, I realize how much I needed to be touched by another human being. It's weird because I do have inner peace, and I am okay with being alone and living my life. I just really needed to have contact with another person. When we hugged, I actually felt the exchange of our energy and I got the impression that I was a being "charged" up like a nicad battery. Very strange.

JL - you're views on touching are much more clearer in my mind today than ever.

Suprisingly, it was a purely spiritual connection. I'm sure if we held that position for very much longer, we both would have felt desire building. It was more fulfilling than any S3Xual encounter could have been at that moment. All I can say was, WOW, I never thought that we would be able to feel that way in each other's arms after all that has transpired between us.

He called me about a half hour after dinner to talk to DS. I again said thank you for dinner. He also called again this morning, and I sent im an email at lunch.

Basically, I told him that I was eating my leftovers from last night and that it reminded me of the wonderful dinner that we shared. I wish this could keep going in the positive direction, but Boo is right. This weekend the guards will be up again. That's okay though, he has been hurt so much that this is completely understandable. I'm grateful that he even wanted to give me a nice dinner, let alone allow me to hug him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks again guys.

I know that hug!!! Good for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think you are doing such a great job here Kily, you stay so focused and with the advice from Boo and JL, I feel that I can't add much. But remember if you ever have a question for one who has been THERE, just holler!
Have a fun and safe Halloween!

Kily,

You have a lot of power over him, use it wisely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think that if you keep making physical contact with him even just little things you will continue to see changes.

You are doing well, and yes there probably be some backward steps, but as you can see it is very possible that you will become friends again, and perhaps more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Hi All,

It seems as if DS is helping my cause a bit and it is completely unprompted by me.

When I picked him up from School the other night, he wanted very badly to call DAD at home and leave a message on the answering machine. I didn't mind as it is our custom to talk to each other every night (at least once a night).

DS placed the call to DAD and this is the message he left:

"Hi Daddy, It's me. I'm sad. I want to let you know that I miss you and I want for all of us to live together again. Let's work it out and not fight anymore, okay? I love you and I will see you soon."

I was a bit astounded because when we usually talk about the living arrangements DS tells me that he likes to live near the water. He always tells me that he likes having two houses.

When he was done, I told him that what he said was very sweet. I actually had tears in my eyes but did not want him to see them.

Dad never mentioned the message.

Anyway, I want to wish everyone a happy halloween. DS was "Clifford" the big red dog at school today, and he will be "Scooby Doo" this evening. It should be a fun night.

Hi Kily,
Hope you and your DS had a nice Halloween. I love to have the kids come to my door. It's so much fun to see their little faces all lit up with excitement.

Speaking of excitement, I was happy to read the posts here and read the positive developments. A birthday dinner, and a hug! You're right to anticipate the coming backwards defensive motion, I suppose it's something that happens all the time. Enjoy your Friday, and take care!
H_P

Hi Everyone,

Things have been pretty quiet with me and I'm not too sure what to make of it.

XBF seems to have gone back into EXTREMELY distant mode and I am trying to be patient and keep up the belief that this will work out.

Saturday, we shared a pretty quick conversation and I wanted to comment on it here because again I'm pretty clueless when it comes to figuring this stuff out.

Basically, he made plans with DS and his cousin for Sunday. I was commenting on how much fun it sounded, and I expressed how much I wished that I could be a part of things. (This was not done in a demanding way, more of a reflective comment that addressed how much damage I realized that I caused. Sort of I really regret what I did and I'm hurting now because this is the cost for my actions.

The next thing I said was "I miss you" to XBF. He asked my "WHY". I paused because I thought he knew and then I said: "because I love you and you were such a big part of my life". Then the "A" came up and he asked me "Why" again. Basically he was looking to know why I sought it out in the first place. Damn, I wish we were face-to-face when he asked this question. I told him that the answer wasn't an easy one and I didn't really want to answer it on the phone. I then gave him the best reason that I could.

My words were:
"I was looking to fill a void inside. I wanted to feel special, wanted, and needed. I looked to someone else to fulfill that need externally. What I realized was that the problem wasn't going to be solved externally, it had to be solved internally. What I was seeking I couldn't get from someone else. I had to find it inside."

He then told me that he had enough of this and that he wouldn't call me again until he returned to town on Sunday afternoon. Since then he has been very distant and to the point. Everything is back to being "Official Business".

What did I do wrong?

I just got off the telephone with him, he was out of town today and he was calling to confirm his arrival time. I had a blowout and shared with him that I managed to purchase two new tires, have them mounted, and still have time to pick up DS. He was wondering why I made it a point to share these details with him. I explained to him that I was proud because I handled a VERY hard situation in a responsible way, and depended on myself. I was trying to show him that I am not the irresponsible person that he seemed to believe that I was. He kept trying to understand why it was so significant to talk about. DUH!

Wish I could say that I wined him and dined him and ...well you know the rest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
If dreams count for anything then I could say this. I suppose the telephone will have to be sufficient for now.

I wouldn't fret too much over it Kily. Remember, you had a good "run" going. He's gonna slow it down back to his liking, now. He probably felt that things were going on a little quicker than he liked.

Remember me telling you to expect this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My words were:
"I was looking to fill a void inside. I wanted to feel special, wanted, and needed. I looked to someone else to fulfill that need externally. What I realized was that the problem wasn't going to be solved externally, it had to be solved internally. What I was seeking I couldn't get from someone else. I had to find it inside."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK...Here are some of my opinions on this response...

Say something like " I wanted to feel MORE special, wanted, needed...etc. than I did. " Let him know he was at least in the ballgame. Try not to give him an opening in which he may feel like he was a failure at your R.

Also, (other people may disagree with me on this) reiterate to him that you selfishly went looking for it from someone else. That you disregarded his and other people's feelings to try to fulfill that desire.

I'm not saying for you to "degrade" yourself, but rather for you to emphasize a little that you understand your part in it.

You have a good understanding of the dynamics that led to your current situation with the exBF. You may have to show and explain it in a way that he can comprehend it. He doesn't have the luxury of feeling the exact understanding that you do.

If I can say this where you can understand it, try not to worry too much right now about "fixing" your and exBF's relationship. Try to concentrate on just "having" an R.

You will then have the time needed to "fix" it.

Boo

Thanks Boo,

I've been wondering about you. How are things going? The last time I read one of our posts about WW, you sounded pretty hurt and angry. I've been praying that you are okay.

I understand what you are saying about accounting for my actions and taking the responsibility from him for the failure in the R. That's really what I'm trying to do. Here's where I am at right at this moment:

I am just frustrated because he will not allow any face-to-face time with me where we can get deeply into the issues. We always seem to get deeply into it on the telephone. Any time we are together, DS is there. Why is he so deeply afraid to be alone with me? Why is he so resistive to this?

I want so badly to just open up and let everything just pour out of me. I want to tell him the truth about every single lie that I've ever told him! It's not about a new relationship anymore, although this is an ideal goal for me. It just seems as if the floodgates have opened, and I just want to "come clean" about everything. All the poison that has been stored in my system wants to seep out of me. I can't stop the momentum of just wanting to be radically honest. Is this a normal part of recovery?

I find this desire to be so strong that I'm ready to simply write it all out in a journal and hand it over to XBF. I know how damaging this might be to him and it's unfair to force him to read something if he's not wanting to deal with it any longer. I just feel that I want him to know the real me. All of me. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the beautiful. I don't want to hide anymore.

Am I absolutely flipping my lid here?

Part of this desire is that I realize I never trusted him enough to be able to handle his own feelings. I never loved myself enough to open the deep wounded places around him because I thought he would reject me. I rejected me. We never had a chance because I was so empty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry, I think I'm in a major "growth" mode at the moment. I've just read Melody Beaty's book "Going Home". It's about regaining your soul and it has had a profound impact on the things I think and feel. I'm expecting my copy of "The Truth About Relationships" from Amazon today so I'm sure I'm going to get even more nutty as the weeks go on.

Spacecase should get a commisson from the Author of this book! He's been recommending it to everyone and based on what he's shared with us, I chose to buy it.

Thanks for reading again. Right now, you guys are helping to keep me sane. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GUESS WHAT!

XBF just made a deposit into my LB!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Last evening he was traveling again. He came home late and I was running to the grocery store so I picked up a small item that he needed. In the bag I also included a paper airplane model kit that he and DS would have fun working on, and I also included dinner! When he picked DS up, I didn't make a big deal about it either way. I simply sat in the house with my coat and shoes on, as if I was going out when he arrived.

Shortly after he left, I received a telephone call. He was just sharing some details about his work plans for tonight. He had already communicated this to me before so I honestly believe it was an excuse to check and see if I went out or not. Truthfully, right after he left, I changed into my PJ's and watched "FAR and AWAY" with T. Cruise and N. Kidmann. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Prior to his arrival, DS and I had placed a pie in the oven. I promised DS that I would drop it off when it was done cooking. I called DAD about 8:30 to see if I could drop the pie off. He told me not to bother. I mentioned to him that I was trying to keep a promise and he noted the point. After this I asked him if we could meet in NY on Saturday afternoon for dinner because he has to attend a trade show there. I told him that if he had plans I understood, and that I only was thinking of how much fun this would be for me and DS. He sounded very strange when he admitted that he had plans. His tone was very quiet and tentative.

I almost got the impression that he felt sad about having the plans. I know it wasn't that he felt bad that he was going to hurt me. I can't put my finger on what IT was. Anyhow, I was a little hurt and slightly LB'd woth "I can't keep begging forever", and I immediately stopped myself. I completely changed my position and then wished he would have a good time anyway.

Well, Today I sent a very short email that said:
"I wanted to say good morning and see how things were going with you today.
Hope you're having a low stress day.

You are in my thoughts"

Here is how he responded:
"DS was good.
He didn't want to go to the YMCA but I gave him a dollar to use for the vending machine and he was excited.
I gave him:
2 peanut butter & Jelly sandwiches
2 juice boxes
2 fruit snacks
1 chocolate cupcake
2 fruit snacks
bathing suit & towel

He should have plenty to eat and not be hungry.
His bookbag is there when you pick him up. I have the company dinner tonite ( and maybe tomorrow too).

In case I didn't say it, thanks for the bread and tortellini. You didn't have to do it. " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I responded with:

"You don't have to thank me.
I haven't done enough for you over the years.
It's the least I could do.
I got to work at 6:30 this a.m. I'm probably going to pick DS up at 4:30.
He seems to enjoy making those Glass window things so I'm planning on bringing him to the craft store.
I just hope you have enough window space for his creations. They also have shrinkey dinks and I'm trying to convince him to try them! We'll see.
The Pie turned out really good. I had a piece for breakfast! YUM.
Have fun and don't worry, he's in GOOD hands."

I felt such a connection through these short notes! It's the first time since I came back that I felt him opening up to me the way he used to.

HP- I hope you are paying attention here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry it was so long. I'm really encouraged here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've been wondering about you. How are things going? The last time I read one of our posts about WW, you sounded pretty hurt and angry. I've been praying that you are okay.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm doing fine, Kily. Thanks for the concern.

As to being angry, it comes and goes. I am in the process of building my first home, and it isn't going as quickly as I would like for it to. Everyone tells me that the slow pace is normal. Wbenever I get frustrated at the process, or anything else for all that matters, I tend to transfer that anger to my thoughts of the exW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am just frustrated because he will not allow any face-to-face time with me where we can get deeply into the issues. We always seem to get deeply into it on the telephone. Any time we are together, DS is there. Why is he so deeply afraid to be alone with me? Why is he so resistive to this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Think, Kily....

Why are YOU frustrated? Because HE is in control that way. Think back to the power that JL told you about. Your exBF has stripped you of some of your power that way.

He will be more free with you on the phone, because there are miles of "buffers" that way. He can keep his reactions for the most part to himself. He can control the conversation to some extent, without LB'ing (which I am sure that he does not want to do, really). He can make "excuses" to end the discussion, or change the subject, and not be afraid of the power that you have over him. He can be "there" on HIS terms.

By what you have said, I think he wants to discuss it, but under his conditions. But he doesn't want to let you know he has "conditions".

To me, Kily, it is obvious that you are his weakness right now. By you having control, his weakness is exaggerated to him.

We men have a VERY hard time with that. Especially with someone that we do not have 100% trust in.

Patience is the key word here. Be confident, yet understanding towards his subconscious fears. Be confident, yet not too strong or powerful. He will come towards you at his pace and terms, for now. And he IS coming towards you.

You will eat this "elephant". One bite at a time.

Keep it up. You are doing well.

If he makes deposits into your LB$, and you in his LB$, how can this NOT work? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Boo

By the way, Kily.......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "You don't have to thank me.
I haven't done enough for you over the years.
It's the least I could do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perfect! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No whys, buts, ifs, etc. No further discussions. No blame mentioned.

I would bet that the simple line "I haven't done enough for you over the years" has gone through his mind a hundred times since you said it.

Simple, sincere, honest, and not expecting a reply.

Boo

OOPS!

Double Post.....

<small>[ November 05, 2002, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: hcii ]</small>

Kily,

This is going to be a short post. WHAT Boo SAID!

That is all I have to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are doing well.

As for your urge to do a core dump on exBF, I would suggest writing it all down. It will help purge you. It will help organize your thoughts so that when and if you and BF really get to this level you will be able to succinctly explain all of this to him. I would suggest going a bit further. Write down a page or two, the "edit" it. That means go over it just as you would a paper in school. Adding, deleting, changing the wording, just working it over. Why? Because it will force you to distill things in your mind.

Remember, this dump is mostly for you, but with that in mind, look at a page and underline the sentences that he would like to know or need to know.

Do you see what I mean? He may not be ready for the full dump, but you are ready to go through the process.

You are doing well Kily. And it IS the little things that make the difference isn't it?

God Bless,

JL

Sounds great, Kily!

I really like what you said about not having done enough over the years, etc. Sounds like such a meaningful, wonderful thing to say.

I wish I could add more, but the words that Boo and JL said seem perfect to me.

Thanks again for your support and caring. I feel in need of a 'good cry' tonight, just tired of what I've created in my life. Knew you'd understand, Kily--the lows feel very low!

Off to bake now!

Take care,
and glad to hear that things are going better,
H_P

Hi All,

JL you are too funny!

Thanks for the input. As usual it has lifted me up when I needed it.

Quick note:
Last night I ad a conversation through the "buffer" with XBF. I brought up the fact that Swimming Sign ups are this Saturday and that I would gladly take care of it. XBF said that he would $ for it. I told him no big deal, it always works out in the wash.

Here is his reaction:
"You don't have to $ for everything to fix this "R". I said to him, that's not why I volunteered to pay. Then I explained how the $ balanced out and it wasn't an issue. I told him that $ was NOT the reason for our "R" issues. Other things were.

The conversation went on, but the point I wanted to make was last week the door was "SLAMMED SHUT" and this week it's a "R". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Makes me wonder.....

Have a great day!