O.K. I messed up. Last week my spouse called me (2hrs) Broke R.O. I told her I wouldn't report her. We had a nice relationship talk. Then Friday she called again. I solved the problem between her and my brother. I though she was a little grateful.

Well today I emailed her a request to pick up our daughter at daycare tomarrow afternoon, so she could have some time to herself and I could see my daughter. I also told her I would help out financially as much as I could.

The massage therapist called her and told her a friend said she had a lot of stress and that she had a 1 hour massage coming. She said my wife was very happy and scheduled an appointment! Great she needs it! The therapist said she would tell her I did it for her after the session.

Well later today I get a call from my attorney stating her attorney called him and said that I violated the protection order. What's this about??????????????????????????????????????????
I promised her I wouldn't call her everday and haven't.....just a harmless Email. I could have had her arrested but didn't. Am I a fool? Am I being played?

Of course I told my lawyer about Thursday and Friday. She never told her attorney that she violated it. Of course not.........I'm the bad person.

What's going on? Am I in a nightmare??????? I relly had picked up vibes that I still had a chance, but what does this tell me?

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

((Alan)): I know I sound like a broken record but you absolutely MUST respect the restraining order.

Of course, you meant to do well but you are actually the one who could be arrested--something you do not want at all.

You are in a difficult and bizarre position of having to let your W make all the first moves. If she calls again, THEN you could ask her if you could do the massage thing for her. But unfortunately, she has placed you in a position where you are not free to do things for her unless she asks you first.

It really does seem unfair but every time you break the restraining order (if she initiates contact, she is still violating it but at least that is her choice and she knows you are going to be pleased to hear from her--I know that is so unfair to you but it's reality), you alienate her. It's a major LB and causes her to put up another wall rather than take the walls down.

I'm so sorry this happened when you were simply trying to do something loving. Keep on praying and asking for another miracle. It's OK to tell God how angry and upset you are--He can take it and He already knows.

Just please remember to stay well in all of this. You are not just working on self-improvement for W but for yourself and your kids, too.

Hope things get better.

dont break restraining order, my spouse filed some charges against me and I fear they are affecting me for the rest of my life.. these show up in job interviews. Stay away, they are crazy in the fog. My ws is sorry for what he did, but at times in the fog, still feels justified, these people truly are not who we married right now.. KNOW that... it is worse than death.. you see them, but they are not who you know.. thus, the theory- ws has been abducted by alien's

Hugs, HONEY

If it has come to the point where a restraining order has been filed, you are really demeaning yourself by pursuing her. You'll need to walk away from this.

That's the thing......she uses ME when she needs something......then I get to say and do nothing. I HATE this person she has become. One minute nice and understanding and talking abour relationship.....her breaking order nad can be locked up.....then I aske about visitation in an email.......and I'm the bad person again!!!!!Does it get better or am I going to continue to become more distant from her?

As everyone said...do NOT break the RO and do NOT allow her to break it either. Go into serious plan B...no contact at all. Try to get someone else to handle whatever issues must be handled with child...if unable to...child is only reason to have ANY contact with her. Let her "swing in the wind" for awhile all on her own, with NO emotional support from you at all!! jmho

How do I not let her break it? I won't report her......and she knows that. I just wish she was thinking clearly. Her friend thinks I have a real good chance of eventually getting to JC. I feel like I'm a million miles away from her. What happened? We had an awesome talk Thursday.....now back to cold shoulder and 6 more weeks of no seeing or talking. This is really the worst time of my life. Someone I love so much turns their back on me. Is it a test?

Well, the next time she contacts you, you could habe a plan B letter ready and read it out to her. Then hang up and never take her calls; be firm with no contact except the absolutely necessary contact re. the children, and that too very short and to the point.

My Friend. A restraining order is just that. Please watch your step. Regardless how nice she is one day and not the next. You stick to the rules or you will be the fool behind bars.

YOU WROTE: That's the thing......she uses ME when she needs something

Well to this I say. She is using you because YOU are letting her use you. How about you lay down some ground rules instead of letting her manipulate you? She is probably trying to catch you doing something else just to get more dirt on you to turn over to her laywer to make YOU seem like the nut case. Please be careful. She is out of her mind right now and you are the one that will take the fall if you step out of line.

I hope for your sake you will back off.

How about just STOP calling, STOP emailing and so forth unless its a valid emergency, then and only then, should you GO through a 3rd party to reach her for your own safety. STAY AWAY. I think you are making a bad situation worse with your actions

I saw your site, its nice but I didn't realize you had a restraining order on you. Be careful. That site can be used against you. Beautiful as the thought may be, she may use that very website to say your are obsessed. Disreguard my ideas to email her the link. I had NO idea she had an order of protection.

You also said: "I WISH SHE WAS THINKING CLEARLY"

Well she is NOT and that can be very dangerous to you. Please protect yourself in this mess unless you want to be behind bars and for your kid to come see you in jail. Think about it. This is serious stuff. Do delude yourself into thinking everything is okay because for 10 mins she is nice to you. This is alot more serious than I thought. Stay away and protect yourself. If this relationship is meant to be then it will be, if its not, then GOD has better plans for you.

Oh wow... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I will pray for you
Zoey

<small>[ October 23, 2002, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Zoey ]</small>

Alan, everyone is right. Plan B is the way to go now.

It won't be easy so lean on your priest or a counselor for support.

You certainly do not want to risk losing the chance for joint custody of your child.

Be really careful. Just take this time to continue working on your own healing. Leave your W in God's hands for now.

Remember that poem that was so popular a few years ago--about "if you love something, set it free--if it was yours, it will come back to you"--that's what you have to do now. Let your W go.

Don't get involved with anyone else no matter how lonely you are. Leave the door open for your W when she is ready to return but for now, sever all ties.

I think it's right that you don't accept her calls. I hadn't thought about it as her using you but that's exactly what it is. She needs to know she can't have the best of both worlds. She can't mess around and have you waiting in the wings desperately waiting for one or two phone calls.

Research Plan B. Commit to it. Commit to getting yourself more healthy emotionally.

It may seem like we are being hard on you but all of us really do care about you and that you achieve success in restoring your M ultimately.

Take care.

How do you stop her from contact? Do NOT answer her phone calls...let the answering machine pick up. If you see her at your front door, do NOT answer it. Do not answer her emails. Do NOT agree to any meetings that are not with your lawyers present.

AND...report her breaking each time to your lawyer! No, you're not wanting her to get in trouble (tell lawyer this is "FYI only") ...you don't have to report it to the courts or the police...but your lawyer needs to know each and everytime.

Sorry, but keep detailed records of each incident...you may want your marriage to continue, but you have to protect your rights in case it doesn't. You've got a child to protect...do that job FIRST.

Hi All,

I am always in the minority ... This is MVHO, I spoke to Alan a few time and read his post closely. Judy is a giver snapped, big time. Alan has EA in the past and working to convince Judy that he is a new man. From what he described and posted I have no doubt that he is a new man. However Judy is not seeing all of this and erected a wall between them. I would try to make it easier for Judy to talk, to contact not to slam the door w/ plan B. Remember their Dv will be finalized in 60+ days !. There is no OM involve so just between Judy & Alan. There is no cake eating here. All we know it could have been that the lawyer call Judy for something else and Judy blurp it out ... lawyer hates lawsuit on them, it is their duty to inform the other consule (lawyer) about it, regardless if Judy tried to stop it, this is a RO !. I don't beleive plan B is going to benefit Alan & Judy ... Alan has to plan A'ng his gut out for the next 60 days and keep his taker at bay. Judy will see plan B as controling and manipulative and mean ... and she will attribute it to old Alan. 'Coaster ride is the hardest part of this ... keep venting here but don't LB'ed to her. JMHO.

Alan,
Did you get a hold of your laywer to tell him not to persue anything ?. He could just say I already advice my client about it and not to tell her lawyer about what Judy did. Wait until Judy makes her next move.

-rh-

Redhat, but doesn't it sound to you like there is an OM here? Judy is in touch with an internet creep. Even if it's not fullfledged A, it's dangerous territory.

Sorry to use your thread to ask Redhat's advice, Alan! He has some interesting points that I hadn't considered but the restraining order really restricts Alan, don't you agree, RH?

I don't know much about Plan A or B but I thought maybe it would help Alan to let go a bit if he respected the R.O. and protected himself from her breaking it, too.

Whatever you decide, Alan, you are in my prayers.

Thanks redhat...I was difinitly ill-informed as to the situation that they have. I'll have to re-think my advice.

He still must honor the RO. That's the law. He shouldn't however make "not nice" about it.

He needs to try to allow her the space she needs, while making sure that she is informed that he still cares and is wanting her happiness. This is a very hard line to walk. You want to emotional support her, while not ending up feeling used.

Since I don't understand the situation clearly...why was the RO put in place to begin with? Can it be modified, if both parties agree? Is there counseling going on, either court ordered or because they want to try and save the marriage?

Since she is breaking the RO as much as he is...sounds as if this is not productive to either. jmho

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by freshstart:
<strong>Redhat, but doesn't it sound to you like there is an OM here? Judy is in touch with an internet creep. Even if it's not fullfledged A, it's dangerous territory.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it was ... apperently she got burned by it and every one is grilling her on it. Even if this OM is persuing her, Alan could compete with him as long as Judy has contact w/ Alan too.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Sorry to use your thread to ask Redhat's advice, Alan! He has some interesting points that I hadn't considered but the restraining order really restricts Alan, don't you agree, RH? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the whole point. Lets keep this under the wrap, let her approach it few more time and keep the contact very pleasant. Slaming it with plan B is the last thing that Alan want to do. Alan is trying to show everyone including Judy's best freind how he has changed. Remember plan A is to show you have changed or you are capable of change ... oppinion from a respected individual of Judy is as good as showing it to her.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't know much about Plan A or B but I thought maybe it would help Alan to let go a bit if he respected the R.O. and protected himself from her breaking it, too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we all are afraid of RO but I always say if nobody complaint that RO is just a piece of paper, no bite from it. Even there is a complaint, most likely your hand will get slap a few time ... unless you exhibit a threat to the other party. In MB, if you are not sure, don't do anything and let it past and rethink about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by just a wifey 2002:
<strong>Thanks redhat...I was difinitly ill-informed as to the situation that they have. I'll have to re-think my advice.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am fortunate enough to talk a few time w/ Alan for a few hours. I would advice him the same thing if I haven't talked to him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He still must honor the RO. That's the law. He shouldn't however make "not nice" about it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Judy is the one who put RO and I beleive it become a family RO, it means both party should have no direct contact.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He needs to try to allow her the space she needs, while making sure that she is informed that he still cares and is wanting her happiness. This is a very hard line to walk. You want to emotional support her, while not ending up feeling used.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You put it better than I could.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Since I don't understand the situation clearly...why was the RO put in place to begin with? Can it be modified, if both parties agree? Is there counseling going on, either court ordered or because they want to try and save the marriage?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Judy did put it after what Alan did on August. I am pretty sure that he would give anything to take it back. Yes, any RO could be dropped by the petitioner and agreed by responder. No counseling happen yet, they had been to a few session months ago and Alan resisted to continue. You see for years Judy tried to tell Alan she is not happy and EA added the harm. She was giving every chance that she thought she could give him and finally she gave up. A classic "giver snapped". I am was happy when I heard about Judy picked the phone up and call Alan last Thursday. RO or no RO as long as no body complaining to the authority, they could even spend a night together ... no problem. The real issue is we don't know why the word leak out to Judy's lawyer. Slip of her tounge or really Judy is the one who called and why ?. Again if we stick to MB principal, don't try to reason w/ the fog and don't take it personnaly then Alan should try to stop his lawyer to tell Judy's lawyer. Alan made mistake telling his lawyer since Judy's lawyer is only "informing" Alan's lawyer that Alan has been breaking RO. Probably Alan lawyer will only tell Alan not to do that, slap on his wrist.
[/quote]<strong>Since she is breaking the RO as much as he is...sounds as if this is not productive to either. jmho</strong>[/QUOTE]
We all agree so if Judy keep breaking it ... and no harm done. Alan could persuade Judy to drop it or "Alan's lawyer" could petition the court to drop it later w/ more prove of contact and even ask the court to order both of them to seek conseling and put the Dv on hold. I say "Alan's Lawyer", let him be the bad guy.

Now I don't know if Alan's lawyer break the news already to Judy's lawyer and Judy about the Thursday contact. If it does it would be a set back and Alan has to work out harder to pass the message to Judy that he has to do that because he has to be truthfull to his lawyer and he has no choice but to tell him. As long as Alan could focus on plan A'ng Judy full blast, he has a chance of getting her back and rebuilding his M with loving & caring M that both of them could be happy. Minor set back is normal, there is no perfect plan A neither there is no zero LB. Brush this one away and keep focus on plan A, isn't our WS LB'ed big time by having EA and/or PA ?.

Alan,
IMHO, you should think how to talk to Judy when she called you and blast you with what you have told your lawyer. Appologize and make a fog excuse ... don't bring up dropping RO or anything at all ... just listen to her vent and ask her "if you were in my position w/ the lawyer on the phone what would you tell him". Calm her down and talk something else ... no LB'ed. Under no circumstances that you would attempt any contact until this question about her action is resolved.
-rh-

Thanks everyone. By the way I have been going to IC once a week sometimes twice since August when we were still together. We had planned a JC, but she already decided on separation. She went to one IC, but that was mid sept. and went only to appease me. She did say Thurs that she needs IC and was thinking of going to the same woman I'm seeing. This counselor saw us last year 3x and is familiar w/us. I hope she goes.

Our priest is calling her tomarrow to see if she will go in and talk to her. That will be touchy. I decided I am paying all daycare expenses besides court ordered CS. This should help her. I am also going to buy my daughter some more clothes. I will continue to buy little things for my wife and put them in daughter's bag. The things I have bought so far never came back refused and no complaints. She is going to massage appointment I got for her next week. I guess this stuff is ok to her as long as we dont see each other or talk. I know she doesn't want me to go to jail, so I don't think she complained to her lawyer. She could have filled out a simple form at PD and had me arrested immediately.

Anyway, my W and I spoke about RO last Thurs. she said she felt she needed it because of how irrational I was in August when %&!@ hit the fan! My counselor feels it's not a physical safety thing but an emotional safety thing. So she can have time away to think. If it was safety.....RO can't prevent that and she wouldn't call me. She knows after Thurs. talk that I would never do that. My lawyer has talked to her lawyer about her breaking RO (of course I wouldn't put her in jail) Her lawyer of course didn't know. In fact in email violation I sent I stated in it "I was happy the you called me Thursday. We had a nice talk." I did that in case she showed it.

My lawyer states that if we are both violating it then it needs disolved. She can't hide behind it and use it when she wants it. I told him to let her keep it if it gives her peace of mind.

I will NOT contact her again. She may drop it eventually if she wants to work on marriage. All I can do is work on myself and somehow show her I care and want to keep my family intact.

bump

OK.........I have a plan finally......thanks RedHat and others. If I am able to save M I must not only thank God but many of you who have helped.

1. I have realized it is her decision
2. I must be patient
3. I must do the opposite of things she expects
me to do
4. I must continue to do little things to show her I haven't forgotten and I care
5. Help out financially (besides court ordered) with daughter
6. Show her I am and can be the man she fell in love with
7. Support her emotionally if she wishes
8. Respect RO nad her boundaries
9. Pray
10. Continue to work on self
11. When we do talk this is the time to tell her what I can do for her
12. Pray
13. Pray again
MOST IMPORTANT: NO LB's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

Alan - this is a long thread and I didn't read it all carefully, but I did notice one thing. Be careful not to rely very much on what your wife's friend tells you. There could be any motivation behind that, not necessarily in your best interest. People have their own ideas of what it means to "stick up for" a friend, "be a good friend", etc. This is your wife's friend first.

I could not get into your tribute site, due to bandwidth limitation, but does your wife know about it? Could it possibly be an LB or even violate the RO?

Good luck,

Tom

well. I thought about friend........they are a married couple 20 years older than us. They went through a 3 month separation years ago/she filed and then they decided to work on marriage. He had a PA on her. Well they worked hard and marriage survived.

They are devoted Baptists and very religios. In fact they will NOT lie. I asked her for an honest opinion about my M. She said right now "there is a very GOOD chance" she will want to work on it. She feels the time will come. I realize I can't just think of that I have to think about my W and mine conversation last week. No little gifts I have given her have been refused or given back. Good sign?

Her/mine friends did say when we do work on marriage Christ has to become a focal point and I tottaly agree. In fact I joined RCIA so I can convert and become Catholic. She stated to work on myself and SHOW my W what I can become to change. It made me feel positive.

As far as website......she doesn't know.....don't think it would be LB..she is a romantic person, and she has had plenty of chances of reporting me for breaking RO. I have had chances to report her too (of course she knows I won't)I don't believe she will because the things I have done are things of kindness. Eventually I hope to show her site. I am going to buy more bandwith so it is always on. I will be putting kids on soon...better pictures and such.

http://alanlovesjudy.tripod.com