I seek advice.

Dday #3 was last Sunday. It’s all a blur really. OW and I had a brief conversation and considering I was in shock, I think I did okay. I did remember to refer to H as my husband, never called him by name (learned that here). I hung up the phone. She called back a couple of times, I chose not to speak with her. She is about an 8 hour or so drive from us. They haven’t seen each other for a year..only contact by phone.

I said to H…you have a choice. We go inside and on the speakerphone you call OW with me there and end it or we go inside and pack your bags. H said he will never leave me. I said he could go on his own or have the authorities escort him if he wanted to go that route. I was done being hurt. I used a quote from someone here about my love being unconditional but our marriage wasn’t. Thanks to whoever said that…I can’t remember. H made the call and left msg on her machine. If OW called him back H would not answer or hang up.

Monday after work H came home and said he spoke with OW and they will not talk anymore…they have ended it. H is confused because I’m not jumping for joy. Why? Well I’ve heard this all before I guess and he didn’t hang up. So I asked him how H could prove no contact. H does not know. I do not know either.

I want to succeed this time. Third time a charm right? What can we do? Where do we go from here? We are in C with Steve and I want to continue. How hard do I push? How firm should I be with boundaries…oh my withdrawal again? Plan A still with no R talk. I’m not sure that worked before. How much R talk? Has anyone been here? What did you do? What worked and what was a disaster? Want shouldn’t I do? I need reassurance from H but don’t want to appear insecure. I am afraid to move. Why…

Anyone?

well, third time is sometimes a charm, but three strikes is also out! can he change his job? or transfer away from her? i've seen many messages from bs who's ws keep working with op and it just seems to cause them pain on daily basis. what does he suggest to ease your pain? if you ask me, it's up to him to come up with a solution to this problem that he's created. would having him call you at lunch time help any? would a paycut he'd have to take in order to find a new job be worth it to you? if not, you'll have to find out another solution that works for you. and how do you feel about his honesty? sometimes it takes a drastic action on the part of the bs before he'll wake up and realize what he stands to lose. has he wrote the no contact letter yet?

Twinkles,

You mentioned you are in counseling with SH. I'm curious what he has to say about this.

Also, if a no-contact letter has not been sent; I think it should. Straight out of SAA is the best letter. Your H's willingness to send this letter will go along way towards your belief that he's serious about no contact. He needs to show you the letter.

When H did his no contact letter; I asked him to give it to me so I could put it in the mail. This way I was sure it went and that there were no changes or additions.

This gave me my first feeling of peace. Good Luck CSue

Thank you both for your suggestions.

H doesn't work with OW. So changing jobs isn't really necessary. A started H was on a business trip, they kept in contact and on next trip OW flew to meet H. They haven't seen each other in a year. They talk on the phone.

A no contact letter was written after Dday#2. I mailed it. H changed cell number - twice - OW kept getting it. We even changed home #. But she got those numbers too and initiated contact and H just gave in. Do you think another no contact letter should be sent?

About his honesty? Wow, I worry. H said he didn't think I would be hurt because I would never know (about the contact). My reply was...so its not wrong if you don't get caught? H had no reply.

Now we are in C with SH. Our next app't is to present proposals and create plan. I have written mine but H has not. So I have not scheduled next appt. Should I C with Steve alone?Is there a way to ask him?

Also - I think I will call H at lunch time. I like that idea. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Twinkles,

I think you should make the next appt with SH. I don't see why it should be alone. I would do it with your H the same as you have before.

Believe me SH will know exactly what to do to move forward. I suspect he will want to speak to your H alone for part of it. I know he will want your H to write his recovery plan. Then SH will review it before it's presented to you.

It was amazingly helpful for me to hear my husband's recovery plan. It was paramount to the success of our relationship. It has to be effective; and it has to be reviewed often. It has to be LIVED by your H. His ability or inability to live his plan will determine the course of your relationship. Blessings CSue

Csue -

Our "homework" for Steve after last session was to write the proposal, read it to spouse, and fax it to him. H had an extra assignment and that was to sit me down and explain the how and why of his A, and be open with details with me...whatever I wanted to know.

H doesn't know why it happened. Actually doesn't consider talking on the phone an EA or wrong. I don't want to educate him, but I want him to understand what an EA is. So I haven't scheduled next appt because asignment isn't done. Should I schedule anyway? I hadn't thought about that.

I just get so frustrated and sad. Patience is a virtue I know...I know. I am just so tired. I fear I will just snap one day and say that's it. Pack it up and be gone. No discussion, no warning. Is that normal?

I am having one of "those" days I guess. Sorry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Twinkles:
<strong>Csue -

Our "homework" for Steve after last session was to write the proposal, read it to spouse, and fax it to him. H had an extra assignment and that was to sit me down and explain the how and why of his A, and be open with details with me...whatever I wanted to know.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Twinkles, the way I decided to manage our counseling with SH was this. I made the month's appointments in advance. H & I agreed on 2 per month. We also agreed that we were in for the long-haul, regardless of setbacks. A few times we didn't complete the assignments given either. What became important to discuss with SH at that point, were the obstacles to completing the assignment. We took SH guided detours in order to accommodate the setback; then we got back on course.

The fact that your H doesn't know "why" the affair bears additional counseling with SH. My take is that your H is in denial of the "why" of the affair. Denial is not a good place to be and is a strong clue as to why he has had repeated contact.

H & I got stuck at the point of the recovery plan too. How horrible I remember it to be. We were both very fragile at this state. To me, it was the point where H had to take responsibility for his actions. I am sure that SH covered with you that the #1 reason for the affair was your H's failure to protect himself. That he has a weakness for affairs, and his future success in marriage has to do with his ability to learn how to protect himself. Until he acknowledges to himself then you how it all got started and do the recovery plan he runs the risk of repeating his mistake. It was agony until we were able with the coaching from SH move through it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Twinkles:
<strong>H doesn't know why it happened. Actually doesn't consider talking on the phone an EA or wrong. I don't want to educate him, but I want him to understand what an EA is. So I haven't scheduled next appt because asignment isn't done. Should I schedule anyway? I hadn't thought about that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are correct not to educate. Not your place until you and your H are in recovery and have SH's blessings to be each other's coach. Schedule the appointment. I think it's so frustrating to be the BS because there seems limitations to what we can actually do. By making the appointment you are taking action. SH will probably revise what your assignments, and have you take smaller steps. A definition of "affair", however not MB, is anything that interferes with your primary relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Twinkles:
<strong>I just get so frustrated and sad. Patience is a virtue I know...I know. I am just so tired. I fear I will just snap one day and say that's it. Pack it up and be gone. No discussion, no warning. Is that normal?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's easier to be patient when you take action to the positive. Also journalling helped me, posting to vent here; and 3 mile daily walks. I hope you don't snap and say that's it. I think there is so very much to learn in this process whether the M survives or not. My goal was to learn what I needed to know so that I could either save my M or be a much better mate in my next relationship. I needed to thoroughly understand what I did to contribute to the state of my M that allowed an affair to happen.

Your state of frustration is so very normal. I hope you don't give into it. It's so much better to "let go" if you have to when the time is right. It's right when you can let go with love; in a state of grace and peace. Until then, in my opinion there is still much to learn, but only if you're willing!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Twinkles:
<strong>I am having one of "those" days I guess. Sorry.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That rollercoaster! It's reality unfortunately. I still deal with it; but much less extreme! Blessings CSue

Thank you Csue <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fact that your H doesn't know "why" the affair bears additional counseling with SH. My take is that your H is in denial of the "why" of the affair. Denial is not a good place to be and is a strong clue as to why he has had repeated contact.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is our brick wall. This is my frustration. This is that knot in my stomache each day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H & I got stuck at the point of the recovery plan too. How horrible I remember it to be. We were both very fragile at this state. To me, it was the point where H had to take responsibility for his actions. I am sure that SH covered with you that the #1 reason for the affair was your H's failure to protect himself. That he has a weakness for affairs, and his future success in marriage has to do with his ability to learn how to protect himself. Until he acknowledges to himself then you how it all got started and do the recovery plan he runs the risk of repeating his mistake. It was agony until we were able with the coaching from SH move through it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Knowing someone else has been there makes it better somehow. Thanks. I am going to call Steve and make an appointment now. I will let H know when I get home that the appt is made and see where we go from there. My hope...H will say he'd better get working on his plan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I always hope. Thanks again.