This is going to be a long post but I don't know where to turn anymore. I believe the last time I posted my XH was talking about moving in with OW. Well, that hasn't happened yet.

Anyway, I just want to give a short review of my situation. My XH & I went thru hell to be together. I thought we had a great marriage w/ honesty, teamwork and love. To make a long story short. I know that I am an enabler and since we have been separated/divorced he has really never known what it's like to live w/out me because I keep allowing him to be a part of our lives somewhat. For example, when he drops off the girls I've allowed him to come in to the house, sit and gab for awhile. Just to let you know that happens very rarely anymore because I try to be the one picking them up & dropping them off. Just so he doesn't come in. I have so many things I want to say I don't know where to start nor do I want to turn off my MB interest.

I tried to maintain a friendly relationship w/ him because I thought that was best for my girls and that's what he wanted. Well, I have figured out it's just not possible because it's driving me crazy and i'm making myself sick over it. Everytime we talked I would wonder why did he say that?, why didn't he sound sad? why isn't he saying what i want to hear?,, etc, etc.,etc. So in the past couple months I've started to close our communication and seeing eachother, etc.

I know this might sound weird to everybody but I had kind of wanted my XH to move in w/ OW because I thought that might have sped things along w/ the fog lifting when he had to be w/ her and her 5 daughters 24/7. So when he didn't move in w/ her a couple months ago he told me the reason he had said it was because he wanted to see my reaction. Nice,huh? Anyway, that was in August I believe and he's still w/ his brother. Then 2 weeks ago he told me he hadn't moved in w/ her because he didn't want to hurt me anymore. I just chuckle. Gee, my friends keep telling me that he is a manipulator and I continue to enable him. My eyes kind of opened up a little 2 weeks ago when we were in the middle of an argument because I had said something to him about his love for her. He has never denied that he loves her and it will be 3 yrs. for those 2 next February. In the middle of the argument he says to me that I pushed him to fall more in love w/ the OW because of my digs & jabs. He says I'm obsessed w/ not leaving him alone about her. I will admit that I do dig & jab. I know what I'm doing is wrong & I don't stop. I feel like I am a sick human being. Then to top off our argument after saying this about his love for her he screams at me & says, "I always wanted to come back to my family but when I am ready for it." "But who would want to come back to the jabs & digs?" All I did was close the door & walked away. I had nothing more to say to him. Our talking has faded a little more since that episode.

Then last week we had another argument and this time he got mad & yelled at me not to talk to him anymore because he didn't deserve to hear me say things. I looked at him & said "okay, from now on our conversations would be by e-mail or notes regarding our daughters." He left. That finally opened my eyes to think that I don't need his crap & he's not worth my feeling sick over. Keep in mind he told me not to talk to him so I have done just that. Then last night he calls me to ask me some question about the girls and I asked if he could drop the girls off for me because I was sick he said "sure.". He came in & asked if I had a can of pop and I told him "yes, in the fridge". So he came in & got one. Said "thanks" & left. When he got home he called me to say "thank you". I told him that he was the one that asked me not to talk to him anymore because of my jabs and that he needed to move on w/ his life however that might be w/ the OW. Because I am moving on w/ my life & 2 daughters because I am not going to continue loving someone who can't love me back. I nicely said "goodnight" and hung up.

Lo & behold when he calls to say goodnight to our girls from OW house he ask to speak to me and says to me "I just wanted to say goodnight". I said "goodnight", and hung up. See he knows how deep my love for him is. What I need to tell you all is that he's been calling the girls every night & every morning for the past 2 years since he's been gone. This morning he calls from OW home to talk w/ girls but he chose not to speak to me because we've had run ins in the past that if she's listening to him talk to the girls he can't talk to me because OW does not want him talking to me. But if he takes phone outside he's always spoken to me because she doesn't know it. I just figured that one out myself.

I have to inform you all though this past week is the longest we've ever gone w/ not speaking to eachother. I felt so crappy & really missed him but at the same time I felt better about myself. I felt like I am getting stronger even. And I think it's because he doesn't get off phone w/ me & run to OW home. It has always made me feel like a complete fool but I continued to talk to him. Just because I know deep down I still love him. I also realized that I'm worth so much more than this. If he wants to be w/ someone who is a cheater and selfish like her then let him be. I know how selfish the OW is because she's called me several times to tell me things about her & XH before we separated just to hurt me & for me to get mad & leave him. Which is exactly what happened. So she got her way. She has even called me w/in the past couple months to tell me things. I've just hung up on her now.

I never thought my XH would quit loving me to be honest but I can't believe that he's still in a fog because it's already been 2 3/4 yrs. So it must be true love for him. Gosh, that hurts so much to admit. I didn't think fog last this long. I think the only reason he hasn't moved in w/ her is because he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't want responsibility w/ her children. I will also tell you he does not go over to her house when she has her children & he doesn't have our daughters. If he has our kids & she has her then he'll go over there so they can play together.
I have finally admitted the truth to myself & am moving on w/ faith that God will help. No more letting him reel me in like a fish. Give advice please. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I hope you don't mind... but I copied this directly from your other post, so that it is less confusing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (and I do want to thank you for writing this 2nd post, as I was rather confused about what it was you were seeking help with).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sorry this was so long but boy did I have some venting to do. I guess I forgot to ask my question and that is how do you forgive someone who has really never shown any remorse???

He wants me to stop digs & jabs and he has also wanted me to forget the past so that we could have tried to get back together again but he never left the OW. Yet I was supposed to stop talking about the past. Everytime I would ask "what past, you're still w/ her". He would get mad & not say anymore. So how do you forgive??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what I've read, I can honestly tell you that you haven't done a very good job at your plan A with your H. He has made an incredibly honest statement with you, telling you that he would like to get back together with you, but your 'digs and jabs' are keeping him away.

So, do you want your M back? If so, then the answer is for you to buckle up, stand strong, and plan A your heart out. Plan A for you, includes NO MORE RELATIONSHIP TALK, and NO MORE TALKING ABOUT THE OW.

However, if you do not want your M back, then keep on doing what you're doing.

I know, I'm being very harsh here. I think it's because I see a lot of me in you right now (even though I'm in recovery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). I'm the kind of person who needs swift kicks in the butt to see what I've got to do - or at least shove me into doing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So... what you need to do right now, is figure out if you want to try your best to save this M or not. What do you want to do?

Karen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have finally admitted the truth to myself & am moving on w/ faith that God will help. No more letting him reel me in like a fish. Give advice please. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dopey, it sounds like you have given the best advice to yourself already (((HUG))). You know your situation best, you have analysed it and you have tested it.
You sound like a great mom and a really strong lady. Stop double guessing yourself because you know the path may be hard but it is one that you chose after much deliberation and soul searching and it is a true path for you.

Good luck and god bless

Dopey,
First I think you should change your name. It is self defeating and you need to be positive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I wish I could help you in your situation, but I am in recovery and my H stopped seeing the OW on DDay. So I really don't know how to help you. There are many others here that are in the same place you are and could better help you with your question. I can say this thou. I was doing the same thing all the time. Throwing things in his face and constantly reminding him he was a failure as a H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> That is the last thing you want to do because as you H told you it only makes him feel worse, like more of a failure, and they don't need to be reminded of what they did. They know. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Even thou they don't show it all the time, they are in pain also. And to keep kicking them when they are down, only perpetuates a nasty situation. You have to move on from this place. Like Topie said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what I've read, I can honestly tell you that you haven't done a very good job at your plan A with your H. He has made an incredibly honest statement with you, telling you that he would like to get back together with you, but your 'digs and jabs' are keeping him away. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now my question to you is this DO YOU WANT TO MAKE HIM PAY FOR HIS MISTAKE, OR DO YOU WANT TO BE MARRIED? Only you can answer that question.I read something here on MB about a year and a half ago that really changed my way of dealing with the pain. A woman's H came back to her but she just wouldn't let it go she kept digging and nagging and driving him up a wall. Not giving him a safe environment to be in and he was really trying to make it work. Finally he said to her. Forget it. I can't do this anymore. You just won't let it go and I can't live like this anymore. So he left her. And now she's by herself. She wrote to MB's and said, PLEASE DON'T DO WHAT I DID. I lost him because I just couldn't let it go. I think it helped me to save my M. I didn't want to lost him so I had to make the decision to VENT HERE or with someone I trusted. NOT WITH HIM. You can let him know in little ways you rfeelings and hurt, AFTER you get his confidence and trust back again. Try acting like you did when you first got together. Become that girl that he fell in love with. Try to get rid of this bitter, angry, vindictive woman and love yourself first, then hopefully he will love you again.
Hope I helped

Sorry if I misread your intent in the post.
I was trying to give encouragement but from the other replies you have recieved I was wrong to say go ahead with your decision when you haven't really decided.
But I do hope you are doing ok and hanging in there.

bumping up for more advice from wiser head than mine