Well most of you know our story. This past weekend was particularly heart wrenching for me.

Wen has been trying to tell me that things are basically over with the OM for her and that she is sleeping on the couch and looking for an apartment. Silly me always seems to find away to try and believe her.

Well Thursday Wen goes to softball and after game drinks with the OM and mutual aquaitances. She hasn't missed any of his softball games. Friday she goes to her therapy appointment. She hugs me and tells me she loves me and wants to talk on the phone. We talk a little. I tell her I'll be out of town Saturday and Sunday for my adventure race. She asks if my GF is going and I truthfully tell her no. That I will be alone. I asked her to call me while I'm gone.

I guess somehow I thought she'd call. I went to Mobile, checked into my hotel, grabbed dinner, got everything ready for the race and kicked back to watch some TV hoping she'd call. She didn't. My GF did call which was nice, but I really was hoping to hear from Wen.

Sunday I do the adventure race and head home. I was pretty excited. I had a blast. I get home and my GF is there happy to see me. I start unloading my truck and then I see Wen and the OM leave to go out to dinner or something. Suddenly my great weekend was gone. About an hour later Wen called my cell phone and left a message wanting to know how my weekend was. She knew I saw her leave with the OM since I was only 10 ft from the road when the drove by.

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like she is playing games. From what I see she is keeping her options open with teh OM. She tells me what I want to hear and then does whatever she wants. I feel so stupid. I should be feeling great today. I think I got 4 hours of sleep last night. That is after doing a race through the woods (6.5 mile run, 15 mile mtn bike, 9 mile canoe) in pouring down rain for 4 hours!

BTW, my GF is moving out. She moves into her new place this coming weekend. Wen is aware of this. It seems to follow the same pattern.

Wen says she sleeps on the couch. They have 2 empty bedrooms with beds. Does that make any sense? She says she falls a sleep on the couch and the OM complains about it.

The only bedroom lights that are ever on are his.

Do you think she is still sleeping with him and they are having sex? Could it still really be over for her?

To me she is still in the FOG and cake walking.

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Wen ]</small>

sorry to be blunt, but this is getting tiresome! all this he said, she said, with neither of you doing any actual talking! you live across the street from each other, right? well then, it's time one of you makes that walk, both of you sit down, and decide if you'd rather walk away from one another or work it out. you can't keep doing this to one another! you both say you want to fix things, but i haven't seen a clue that either one is actually willing to try. if wen wants to work on this relationship, then she must move out of this guys house, sleeping on the couch isn't enough. her track record isn't such that mowl can just take her word that there's no sex, being in that house at all is a cause to worry. and mowl needs to stop seeing his gf. there's no way in the hot place you have a chance if you both have someone waiting in the wings, that's to easy to fall back on! this relationship has become so screwed up that it's going to take a major amount of work to fix but until one of you is brave enough to say "let's do this or end it!" nothing will get any better. sit down and talk, or give up! for both your sakes...

MOWL:

"Silly me always seems to find away to try and believe her."

This is silly? Not in my opinion.

"I guess somehow I thought she'd call."

She says she did.

"I went to Mobile, checked into my hotel, grabbed dinner, got everything ready for the race and kicked back to watch some TV hoping she'd call. She didn't."

So you assumed. Stop assuming.

"My GF did call which was nice, but I really was hoping to hear from Wen."

You can't have both, MOWL.

"I get home and my GF is there happy to see me."

You can't have both, MOWL.

"I start unloading my truck and then I see Wen and the OM leave to go out to dinner or something. Suddenly my great weekend was gone. About an hour later Wen called my cell phone and left a message wanting to know how my weekend was. She knew I saw her leave with the OM since I was only 10 ft from the road when the drove by."

You can't have both, MOWL.

"Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like she is playing games."

Yes, but so are you. Which one of you is going 2 make the first substantial move and STOP IT!?

"From what I see she is keeping her options open with teh OM."

This is not unusual WS behavior. What can you do? Well, stop playing this stupid game, and start working on YOU. Forget about what she's doing. Demonstrate 2 her that you're "worth winning back" by not demanding ANYTHING from her. Let her make her own decisions. And you make yours. But be smart about them, okay?

"She tells me what I want to hear and then does whatever she wants. I feel so stupid."

She's entitled 2 do what she wants. She's single. So are you. But even if you were still M'd, she's entitled 2 do what she wants. It's up 2 you ONLY 2 decide whether you want 2 live with that, and 2 control your own behavior 2ward her. Changing YOUR behavior is the only thing that can "win her back" not demanding that she change hers.

"BTW, my GF is moving out. She moves into her new place this coming weekend."

Good for HER! I can't imagine how this is anything but a messy sitch for HER 2 be mixed up in. You should have waited a year or so after your DV before getting involved with anybody.

"Wen is aware of this. It seems to follow the same pattern."

So? Your point?

"The only bedroom lights that are ever on are his.
Do you think she is still sleeping with him and they are having sex? Could it still really be over for her?
To me she is still in the FOG and cake walking."

Are you asking me? If you are, you should have asked me if I care. I don't. This isn't about her having an A, it's about how you feel about her and how you're unable 2 stop playing games with her even though you're no longer M'd 2 her anymore. She's not even having an A, anymore, because she's not cheating on you. It's true that she "got involved 2 soon" with her OM (obviously, because you were still M'd at the time), and so it's not likely that the R would last anyway, but you need 2 remember this fact. If you hope 2 reconcile and remarry, you've got 2 give Wen a LOT more time and a LOT more love and a HELLUVA lot LESS JUDGMENT than you are currently.

Slow down, take it easy, and focus on YOU.

MOWL,

Since you aren't married to Wen, and since there really is no marriage building going on here, I feel it is time to talk to you about how "the cow ate the cabbage." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My first comment is: What is wrong with you man?

You have a GF that cares for you, perhaps loves you, does indeed do the things you expect from someone in a commited relationship and you are fooling around with Wen. Wen is living with the OM that apparently helped break this marriage up, your former best friend, and right across the street to boot. She clearly shows no serious interest in restarting a new relationship with you, and it isn't clear that she knows how to if she did.

Is this clear enough for you? Is this simply a problem of wanting what you cannot have? What are you going to do when GF decides she has had enough of your games? You aren't going back to Wen, she has a BF and he apparently wants to keep her, and she appears to be happy with that. You got no chance there Bud.

It is irrelevant what Wen says, she is living with the man she wants to live with. End of that story, and there is no need for further dicussion. You two are NOT MARRIED.

So you have three choices in my mind and only two of them make any darn sense at all.

1. Stay with GF and see where that relationship goes. (Could be a good move, it appears that she does care for you.)

2. Move away from Wen and OM, let GF move out, and get a real life by working on yourself. Then perhaps you will meet a woman that you can share your life with.

3. Continue to sort of pine for Wen, throw away GF, throw away your life, and end up right where you are.

Now, that is how I see the situation right now, and I don't see any effort on your part or Wen's part to really change anything about your behaviors, so I suspect that if you got together you marriage would be the same as it was. Doesn't sound attractive to me.

So it seems to me it is either door #1 or #2 IF you want this craziness to end. There is a door #4, but that one would require sacrifice on both of your parts, risk on both of your parts, and real work on both of your parts. Doesn't seem to suit Wen, and I am not sure it suits you.

So MOWL, my recommendation is to do what your name states either with GF or without either of them. Quit, expecting anything from Wen, she is not in the mood or situation to deliver and after all SHE IS NOT YOUR W OR EVEN YOUR GF.

The choices are yours but there really is no reason to continue to torture yourself and Wen with your indecision, the data is there and it is plain as day. She is with another man that is where she wants to be, and you are with another woman. As for you, you need to make up your mind.

If this sounds harsh, I make no apologies ( first for me in over 3.5 years here). I just cannot stand to see people waste their lives on something that apparently has already been decided. No matter what Wen says, she has decided to live with OM. It remains to be seen what you have decided with respect to GF. But, no matter the past is the past and you cannot go back, so go forward with your life. You will be much happier.

I wish you the very best, and I hope you finally sit down, make a decision, and act on it. Whatever the decision is it will take guts, but you will be much happier for it.

God Bless,

JL

Hi MOWL! I concur heartily with JL - he's on target, man. I further add that life with Wen as you know it will continue as it is now - back and forth back and forth back and forth, yadda yadda yadda. You stated she is BPD. So am I, and it sucks. One shining feature of us BPDers is - we are always back and forth, etc. Face it - you go for a life with Wen that's just the way it is. My wife knows about my BPD and has accepted it. Is Wen on any Meds? Depending on the severity of BPD, it can help to some extent. Just my little $.02 worth to think about...
Harold