From today's (10/28/02) Washington Post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Equal-Opportunity Jealousy

Contrary to long-held notions, men and women both tend to get more jealous over sexual infidelity than emotional philandering, new research suggests.

Previous studies have found that men tend to say it would be more devastating to find out their partners had had sex with someone else, while women were more likely to say it would be more upsetting if their partners formed a strong emotional bond with someone else. But David DeSteno of Northeastern

University in Boston and colleagues decided to test that, suspecting the previous results were the result of "force choice" experiments in which subjects were required to chose which of those circumstances was most upsetting.

In the new research, 111 study subjects were asked to rate on a variety of scales how they would feel if they found out their partner had been either emotionally bonded with someone else or had been sexually unfaithful. Using this method, men and women both rated sexual infidelity as the most unsettling.

In a second study, the researchers asked men and women to choose which type of infidelity was more upsetting. The researchers had one group also remember a string of numbers at the same time as answering the question. The idea was to make the task more difficult and increase the likelihood of an automatic, more representative, response. Again, men and women responded the same.

The findings indicate that "men and women, at least with respect to the green-eyed monster, may be from the same planet after all," they wrote in the November issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seems to me this contradicts our vast data of anecdotal evidence within this forum, that once either males OR females find themselves on the short end of infidelity that it's the emotional (romantic) aspects that cause the most anguish and "jealousy." ("Jealousy" seems like an understated, shallow word to use here, doesn't it?) Don't get me wrong - the sex part really rips your guts out, but for me and others, it seems, the long term effects of the emotional betrayal do the most damage.

Could be that the reseachers stated out with the wrong lab rats - asking what WOULD be more devastating of people having not experienced infidelity rather than asking those in the throes of it. Had they been able to do this, I'll bet the results would have been the opposite regarding the emotional aspects vs. the sexual ones, albeit their conclusion on lack of gender differences may have been the same.

Thoughts?

<small>[ October 28, 2002, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>Seems to me this contradicts our vast data of anecdotal evidence within this forum, that once either males OR females find themselves on the short end of infidelity that it's the emotional (romantic) aspects that cause the most anguish and "jealousy." ("Jealousy" seems like an understated, shallow word to use here, doesn't it?) Don't get me wrong - the sex part really rips your guts out, but for me and others, it seems, the long term effects of the emotional betrayal do the most damage.

Thoughts?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W had an A. EA/PA. Speaking only for myself, though I would have been devastated and jealous and everything else by an EA only, it is the PA that I just can't get over. That's what ripped my guts out, and that's what haunts me to this day (dday was well over a year ago). I could have gotten past an EA. Still not sure if I'll ever get past the PA.

So again, speaking only for myself, I think the study you quoted is right on.
Michael

Me 39
FWW 38
M 18
Two S's
A began Jan 01
D Day Jun 01
In MC

The EA in my book was/is worse, how dare someone that you have given so much of yourself to, disrespect you in such a horrendous way!!! Perhaps that the EA lasted so long plays in to it for me am not sure.

Interesting study though, sad how there has to be studies of this nature though.

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Personally I think it's sort of like making a choice over which limb you would prefer amputated lol.

I think all of it sucks.

Please forgive me WAT, but I have to say this: Why are you still focusing on A's? What can we do to help you get past that? Anything?

((((((( WAT )))))))

Karen

p.s. how is your son doing? is the counselling going good/bad/nowhere right now?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Topie25:
<strong>Please forgive me WAT, but I have to say this: Why are you still focusing on A's? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does John Walsh still focus on child abductions?

The emotianal bond between my WS and his A partner was the worst for me.

Sex betral is bad enough, but when you mix emotional conection and sex! That's the killer. That means the sex was an expreshion of their emotions!

I agree they should do a real study of people who have actualy gone through this!

Hi Karen! I'm doing fine and not focusing, per se, on A's (as should be evident by the few posts I've made recently.) I was just sharing a tidbit I found interesting. I am making small progress on my book which is both a clensing rite for me and hopefully will be a useful resource for BSs - at least better than the shabby research I described above. My real point here was that I believe there is a treasure trove of "research" on this forum that has not been tapped, but which could greatly benefit BSs at their darkest hours - hence my book, an expanded version of the Quick Start Guidelines. Even if I can't get it published, it'll have been a necessary exercise for me to write the final chapter, so to speak, on my experience.

I have been seeing a wonderful lady who has added excitement to my life and presented the opportunity to look at the future with lots more options!

Thanks for asking about my son. He's doing well and we've stopped counseling for now at the suggestion of his counselor who feels he's progressing through adolescence normally (better than his Mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). He's doing terrific in school and has started swimming again. Now that the (suspected) snipers are behind bars, the fall baseball schedule is trying to get back on track and cabin fever has abated.

I think of you often and hope your recovery is doing well, which brings me to my question for you - why are you still here? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Warmly,
Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>
I think of you often and hope your recovery is doing well, which brings me to my question for you - why are you still here? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, things are not going as well as I would like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I've started veering away from GQII, and am trying to read and post more in In Recovery; but it's been a slow transition for me. Actually, I've only been at it for less than 2 weeks now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

I do need to get away from MB soon. It's definitely at the point of hurting my M. And it's still a love buster to my H. We had it out yesterday regarding my time on MB. I can't argue with the fact that I need to cut down my time here, most, if not all of it, at least for now.

I don't recall seeing too many recent threads of yours WAT. I do remember reading a post of yours that mentioned you are dating now. But my memory is that most of your topics have been A related. Obviously, that's not the case. And then again, I only look at the GQII and In Recovery forums (so if you're posting elsewhere, that's why I haven't seen it).

I guess the root of my inquiry is based on the fact that the A's aren't really the issues here. Yes, they need to be recognized, and the pain and grief must be gone through... however, that is only the first, IMO small, part of this whole healing process. Ergo my initial question to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm VERY glad to hear that life is getting back to the new normal for you and your son. That's awesome to hear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

Well, fairydust said it all--doesn't matter if it's an arm or a leg--the amputation still hurts like he**.

For me the pain of the EA was much more painful than the sex; but then my FWH is an addict, and that means adding the emotion to the last affair was outside the realm of most addicts. It made it more personal; he shared so much of our precious things with her. Ugly and painful--that is what I have trouble overcoming in our recovery. The triggers...

JMHO; but an interesting topic.

Take care,
my move

So Wat,

Good to see hear and wow what news. Knew you'd be a good catch anyways!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So on this topic, howz about a poll? Let's put it to the test here.

ex: scale of 1 - 10 with 1 being most severe
rate: EA
PA
IA (imagined A) there are a few out there right?!??!?
DA (denial A I wish this stood for dead A - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) !

Something like that. I am sure you can make it look much better.

Take care,
L.

I guess for me a physical relationship without any emotional aspect is pretty aborrent.

And I still can't wrap my mind around it. My take is that it is self-love cos it doesn't involve loving the other person involved in the act does it?
An EA involves feeling for another other than self or spouse while a "pure" PA doesn't. that kind of PA would hurt less I think. There is no third P.

A EA/PA would be the most hurtful, the third P is a significant person in supposedly exclusive 2P relationship.

Perhaps definitions of PA EA used in the research would be helpful...?

just my 0.02 cents

I don't know if my W has had a PA. I definitely know it is an EA but looking back at her activities I doubt the A has been physical.

Having said that, the EA is killing me, the most horrible pain I've ever felt. I've always thought that if the A turns physical it will be even more painful but I don't know because it either has not happened or I haven't found out yet.

So, to me, right now, a PA is worst.

What's worse, EA or PA? Hmm... depends, I suppose, on the take.
My S had both -- a lot. Some EAs that became PAs, and at least one or two ONS. I had several EAs that became PAs, and almost one one night stand.
So what was worse for me?

I'd go with the PAs. Simple reason: The images. Yuck. But, oddly, I think the EA will have the longest staying power in my mind because of the things she said after. Once someone you love says they love someone else, that's tough.

As for her, she has long said she didn't fear a PA on my part, but worried about an EA. She said she knew I was the type to "fall in love." Well, as reserved as she is about this stuff, she does let slip occassionally with just a hint of jealousy peeking through. And usually, it's about an EA of mine. So, I would say she would side with the EA on your poll.

o2bsane's comment hit the nail on the head:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does John Walsh still focus on child abductions?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People who are in recovery, living with the WS, have absolutely no call to accuse others whose spouses' affairs did not end, whose spouse may be living with or married to the OP, of focusing too long on affairs. It most certainly IS about the affair.

Maybe if society as a whole did focus more on affairs, maybe if the horror and destruction they bring was not made light of constantly, maybe then there would be fewer of them.

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

Little homework assignment for everyone:

WATCH BIOGRAPHY FOR A WEEK OR TWO STRAIGHT.

I was telling my husband just this morning that I am HORRIFIED (and I mean this sincerely) at how they gloss over multiple marriages and infidelity.

Remember, this is the story of a life, and it seems like every single time there's a divorce, it's like this:

"Between the hours worked and time spent apart, it took a toll on the marriage and divorce was inevitable..."

And then before you know it, they're with someone else.

Now, I'm not one to judge, obviously, but I'll tell you what. My ex's infidelity, and mine in that marriage, were the WORST thing to happen and STILL affect me. I've been through a LOT in my life, yet that single factor has made more of an impact (in my opinion) than the sexual abuse, my son's suicide attempt or myriad other things.

Oh, and as far as which kind of infidelity is worse...

My ex cheated with five women and had various daliances (I never know if that's spelled right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) throughout our 20 year marriage. His last affair was a full-on physical thing.

Each time he cheated, gave someone oral sex, touched someone's breast or kissed her... or a woman told me to keep my husband away from her, or another woman told her secrets to MY husband... a piece of me was cut away, or forcibly ripped apart.

By the time he actually boinked someone it almost didn't matter... just the final nail in the coffin.

It all sux.

Double ditto to Sheryl.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>I've been through a LOT in my life, yet that single factor has made more of an impact (in my opinion) than the sexual abuse, my son's suicide attempt or myriad other things.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lots of folks have expressed to me their heartfelt compassion for my loss of my son. Many people say they cannot imagine the pain. Yep, the hardest thing I ever had to handle - until my XW's betrayal. I'm not intending to sound like a whiner, but the betrayal was FAR worse for me than my son's death.

Why?

Because it involved decisions and choices that were driven by selfishness.

'Nuff said.

WAT -

Great hearing you are doing well. I always look at GQII to see if you've posted. Your guidelines helped me tremendously when I first found out about my husband's EA.

Since I don't know if my XH had a PA, I can only answer like this...

No matter what our deep rooted problems in the marriage were, I always believed that my XH was honest. The lies, cover ups and denial of the truth is what really did it for me. Then, after it's all exposed, he never really came clean or sincerely apologized. Nor did he even attempt to become trustworthy. That was quite disappointing and really helped make my decision that divorce was going to be the right thing for us.

Therapy helped tremendously. And, now I'm going through my tribunal application for an annulment and this has been very healing for me.

I'm getting ready for my closing (having house refinanced to remove XH name off loan) in a few weeks. This is the LAST thing per our divorce decree that I'm responsible for taking care of. Talk about healing - I know it will be a weight lifted off my shoulders when closing day comes - WHEW!

A good read for me lately that I wish I would have had while I was still married is "How to Say it For Couples" - it's excellent.

Recovery is going much better than I expected - it's really great to see you! Good luck and best wishes!

Llama