Hi all. I don't know where I left off in my nightmere but looking for feedback/suggestions. My WH and I had been getting along better..he was calling to say hi once and awhile..a few hugs..a drink between exchanging kids. The problem?
He is still seeing OW, saying he wants to be friends with me, and he does absolutely no relationship talk or talk about the OW. It's like she doesn't exist between us.
Tonight we had a huge blow-up. I called and said I know he stayed at the OW's last night..and how does he do it? Hug me one minute and then sleep with her?
He said I just don't get it. He doesn't mean anything by the hugs/he doesn't feel that way about me (sexual)/and that our "friendship" is now over as I can't take it. I believe it will be now. He'll be a distant jerk again. He said we are getting divorced, he is not interested in having no contact with anyone and trying to work on our marriage b/c I wasn't there for him when he wanted to try and he just can't do it that I, repeat, I, broke HIS heart.
He said I don't understand how I hurt him the past yr and I never will. That I can make him madder than anyone can in a split second and he can't even see straight.
I said what will make you believe that I'm sorry or things could change. He said nothing. It's over and I should stop asking questions that I don't the real answers for.
I mentioned that he said when I got a job and started treating him with respect that he would stop seeing OW and try. I have. His answer?
You have a temporary job that could end in two weeks. Keep in mind that I am working a f/t job, a part-time job (60+hrs a week), working for my mom five hrs a week, starting to study for bar exam (one test next week) and taking care of three young children, trying to get the house ready to sell, arranging ad hoc daycare each week, taking care of both our finances, etc. I've had it!!!!!! I am about to lose my mind. Really.
I got asked on a date tonight. I am going to go. I am so tired of WH..and feeling like crap even though I am trying so very hard.
What's wrong with him? Please don't say fog..it's been so long. Should I just believe him?
-Can't Sleep

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>

can't sleep,
I am truly sorry for what you are feeling. By your member # I see you have been here quite a bit longer than I have. So, I am not sure I can offer anything as far as advice goes that you have not heard before.
I will give this. I understand your need to go out on a date. God only knows how bad I wanted to go out with someone. But, beyond the fact that you are still married, you would be doing no better than what your WH is doing. Think about how fair it would be to the person you are going out with. If they asked you out they are probably interested in you. I sure wouldn't want anyone to go out with me b/c they are tired of dealing with their spouse.
Not sure that makes any sense, just thought I would throw that out there.
Some others here may disagree with me.

HW

Can'tSleep,

I can feel the pain in your post. I am so sorry.

{{{{{{{{{{{Can'tSleep}}}}}}}}}} A BIG hug for you!!!
I wish I had some great advice, but I don't. And I wish I could tell you its just fog talk, but I can't. I'm not sure.

I want to be sure about a couple of things, you have taken some responsiblity for the breakdown in the M? Does he just not accept that you can see what you did to contribute to it? Or does he not believe that you are truely sorry? So are you in Plan A or B? If Plan A, then remember that it is for you to become a better person. Whether you WS chooses to accept those changes is completely up to them.

You sound like you might be overhelming yourself a bit. Can you get out of any of those responsibilities? Maybe find some time for YOU???

I don't know if going out on a date will help the matter. But if you do go, have boundaries in place before you leave. Don't let yourself stoop to your WH level. Don't get into another relationship before fixing the problems in this one.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. I hope some of it helps.

HUGS!!!
PQ

Hi can't sleep...

I have been wondering how things were going. You need to ignore OW & the A... no relationship talks or A talks UNLESS WH brings it up.

I does sound as if some detachment on your part is in order. Perhaps a bit of "acting as if" you don't care.

I understand the need for companionship... and agree w/the poster who said to determine boundaries... perhaps let the person know that you ARE still married and that ALL you want is a companion... strive to stay away from talking about your H and your marriage.

You do need to take care of yourself. Sounds as if you are allowing yourself to carry the majority of the family burdens. It is time to tell WH that he has to carry his own load. You can't carry EVERYONE's! Let him take care of his own finances... split care of children between you... time for some of the 'consequences' to be felt... take a look a what you do... and start cutting out what SHOULD be his... meet in a neutral place and tell him that you will no longer do XYZ (whatever is HIS responsibility)...

Plan this out so that you can do it w/out LBing and being detached.

finally... another poster posted this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
A) You don't have to make any decisions today -- nothing has to be decided immediately; give it time, wait it out and see what happens.

B) You can only control your own actions, nobody else's. Somebody doesn't do something because you willed them to do it.

C) The car dealer that appears confident and offers a good product is the one that makes the sale; not the dealer that is emotional and begs for the sale.

D) Go above the call of duty. Put more in than you take out. Especially when it's difficult.

E) Listen to your gut, not your head. Do the right thing. Always. It may be difficult, but you'll never hate yourself for it.

F) If somebody wants space, give it to them.

G) Find ways to love yourself. Esteem is hard in this situation.

H) Don't bring up the past out of anger or to hurt; do it to clear things up and avoid bringing it up when there's no need.

I) Don't worry about being right. Do what works.
"You can be right and you can be married... You can't always be both." (A Cali addition)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take it one day at a time... don't look too far into the future.

Now, you knew you were going to hear from me, didnt ya!

First of all, be very careful about the date thing. Sure, its nice to be wanted, but you are in a vulnerable state right now, dont let yourself get into a situation that will make things worse in the long run. Remember that you have 3 kids who are looking up to you and if you start bringing other people into thier lives, especially men-folk, they are going to be more confused than ever. Enough said about that.

So WH is taking issue with you questions, what else is new. Do you see how he is blaming you for his unhappiness. Remember that you are responsible for your own happiness. (see #'s B and H of Calis post)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That I can make him madder than anyone can in a split second and he can't even see straight.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- thats pretty good, its all your fault that he gets mad, of course when you have your head up your you-know-what, its hard to see anything at all, straight or not.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have a temporary job that could end in two weeks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- when it comes down to it, we all have temporary jobs and could be umemployed within two weeks. Now of course, he doesnt mention the fact that you have a full-time job, because if he did, then he would have admit that he was willing to work on the M if you did what he asked. OMG!- that would mean he would have to maybe give up OW.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said we are getting divorced...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- yeah sure, I remember you mentioning this before, dont hold your breath waiting for the papers to be served.

Listen to what Cali is saying, if WH wants to act the part of the single dad, then he needs to take on the entire role. Give him his half of all the responsibilities, just make sure you have it in writing so there is no "thats not what I meant" problems later on. If he is so willing to get a D, then this shouldnt be a problem.

I guess what it all comes down to is how much of this you can take. I know you and WH have been getting along and it seems that WH is fairly comfortable with the current situation (until last night). Seems that your Plan A efforts are going good. The problem with comfort is that it can lead to complacency. Maybe its time to remove some of the comfort level in your relationship with WH and make him do a little work. Change the dynamics, do like Cali said and act "as if" it doesnt matter, pull back and detach from WH. Just because WH says something doesnt mean he really believes it.

But whatever you do, make sure you take a couple of days off from all of this to let things settle down a bit. Your over-extending yourself and are probably letting your emotions control a lot of what you do.

Dont let this one incident set you back, your doing great. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for your responses. I am in Plan A and I have taken responsiblity for alot of the problems in our marriage-rightly so. However, Wh says he doesn't beleive that I mean it and he was in so much pain the past year..blah, blah. There's nothing else I can do.
Update: Since this blow-up, we haven't discussed it. Spent Halloween together with the kids and had a great time. He's been watching the kids this weekend while I study (I believe that we are working around OW's work schedule but I've kept my mouth shut). WH has called a few times and tried to initate warm conversations and eye contact but the truth is I am tired of trying. I was in a car accident last night (everyone OK but very upsetting and costly) and I didn't even have the urge to call WH and let him know. I'm tired of waiting for the fog to lift and really dreading the holidays.
WH and I are about 1-2 wks from signing final separation papers and I'm putting the house on the market in one week. I want to be out of here by Thanksgiving (apartment or something). I just really need to move on. I can't take the bulls### anymore.
I don't know how WH looks me in the eyes and wishes me a good night and then spends his evening with OW. My only answer is that he truly is over me and I am making the right decision.
About the date..yikes..it is a friendly one...and I need it. I am not doing the same thing as my WH. He left over seven months ago and I'm leaving now because he clearly isn't ever going to get it.I really thought in my heart that we would be one of the "lucky ones" that got it back together because I thought family was important to him and we have loved each other so long. I realize that WH doesn't have the capacity to understand what went wrong and make changes. It makes me sad for my kids, me and my life choices.
Take care all,
can't sleep

I woke up this morning wondering if I would feel so sure about what I wrote last night and amazingly enough...I do. I don't know what stage that I've entered but it feels better. I am really starting not to care whether WH and I get back together or not. I am starting to see that maybe he is not the one for me either. If WH had left saying that the marriage was over but there was no OW, things would be so different now(duh, I know). I would have respected his decision and dealt with things alot better. He still won't admit to anything with her or talk about it. Tired of it. These past few days when he calls or tries to talk about mundane things, I can't even hardly strike up a conversation. I look at him and think "what a fake"...
I don't really know if this is good or bad but I feel different. I have been praying for so long that we mend our marriage and now I don't really think that it is possible and the scary part..is that although I am sad and a bit lonely..I think it is OK.
Thoughts?
Can't Sleep (did last night)

CS-

I hope everyone is ok following the car accident, talk about "when it rains, it pours". You already have way too much going on in your life right now, and now this. Make sure you take time to relax, have some real "down time" so you can recharge your batteries and get a better handle on things.

I sense from your last few posts that you are getting to the end of your rope with WH. I think it may be time to take a real hard look at what your Plan A efforts have accomplished. I know you have made some very drastic, positive changes (for you, not for WH) and have really moved forward with your life. Do you think WH is aware of all these changes? Are you aware of all the changes you have made?

If you feel you have reached the end of your Plan A efforts, you need to really look into Plan B and see what it is all about. I get the feeling that you are ready to end it all right now, but you owe it to yourself and your kids to initiate a Plan B. Plan A efforts aren’t always 100% effective for restoring an M, that’s why Plan B has such drastic measures. It may be time to knock WH off-center and let him really see what life without you is all about. I don’t know if this is the right time to get into a Plan B, especially with the holidays coming up, but you will know when it is time.

CS, I believe that your Plan A efforts have been acknowledged by WH, that’s why he is so comfortable being around you. Remember your first posts, how full of anger and bitterness you were towards WH (and him towards you), and how he didn’t want anything to do with you? Now look where things are, the 2 of you are able to spend a lot of time together without LB-ing all over the place. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" applies here. Sure, WH says ".. he doesn't believe that I mean it and he was in so much pain the past year..blah, blah. There's nothing else I can do.", but if he really meant it, why is HE coming around all the time, why is HE calling YOU all the time, why is HE making such a conscience effort to be with you. I believe its because he does see the improvements in you and likes what he sees.

I by no means am an expert on this stuff (cripes, look where my M is right now), but I do know that there is still a lot of hope left in your M. If you really feel like you have reached the end of your Plan A efforts, then please look into changing the dynamics of you R with WH, maybe some serious detachment, or possibly Plan B, instead of throwing it all away. If this doesn’t work, at least you can say you did everything possible to save it, but if you don’t, then there will always be that little bit of doubt hanging over you.

Take care CS, I hope some wiser MB alumnus can chime in and give you some advice.

LHS

Bumping this up for some more responses. I think that CS may be reaching a point where she should be looking into Plan B, or some serious detachment at least.

What do all of you MB vets think?

Hi. I really need some thoughts from people, especially the old timers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . My Wh and I had the most severe fight of our relationship last night..to the point where we were screaming and things were flying. No, there are no physical abuse issues, just stupidity.
It started by WH asking what was wrong.. I told him I was stressed out, etc. and he told me that everyone is stressed..and I'm not the only one in the world. Meanwhile, our 4 yro starts crying that she doesn't want him to leave. I just lost it and he responded in like manner. he told me that he has never hated anyone as much as he hates me, etc.
When things calmed down, we both cried, said we were sorry, made plans to talk (not R talk) on Sat. I think we are both shocked at how we acted. I sent him a stupid e-mail last night..an educating, moralizing one but at least not angry. He was very somber today. I am drained. He still maintains he doesn't want the marriage. He still won't talk about OW. He has been very helpful lately and except on the weekends that he doesn't have the kids..2 a month..I don't think they have much time to see each other anymore. I know they talk on the phone.
Where do we go from here? LHS has suggested that I am showing signs of leaning toward Plan B. I think I am in the sense that I am starting to not care about him...WH shows no signs of giving up OW..yet, sometimes when we talk..there are signs of life again.
I really need feedback. What do you attibute to this sudden burst of anger after 7 mths? Wh has been seeing the kids everyday since I started working f/t 5 wks agon and we have had a lot of contact. Alot of it good.
Thanks,
Can't Sleep

<small>[ November 05, 2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: can't sleep ]</small>

Bumping up. Do you think I should stay in Plan A? What's happening with this dance? Do I back away and be pleasant when we are together or do I compliment him and try to date him? I am torn on this. I know my wh thinks I never appreciated him or met his needs but I also think he likes having 2 women interested in him.
Feedback please!
Can't Sleep

CS -- No significant words of wisdome here. I can only share my experience and send you my hope for a better future. I do think that your WH sounds much like mine in that our relationship started to get better. He didn't move back home, but we were talking every day, he expressed real concern for my well-being and I thought there was hope. Unfortunately, he also still wanted OW in his life. I think he got very comfortable with both of us meeting his needs.

Now, I don't know your situation all that well, but I do want to convey how it feels to go to plan B. I reached a low point and I knew that it was hurting me to share my life with him in any way knowing that he was still with OW. I also knew that I was starting to want to LB again after not doing it for 5 months. It sounds to me if you are having such violent (albeit not physically violent) fights in front of your children that you do need to think seriously about going to plan B. This just cannot be good for either you or your children.

I think I hung on a little too long in plan A because I was starting to feel some hope. Plan B is hard, but it is getting easier. I am not ready for divorce, but I have detached and am not constantly worrying about what WH or OW are or are not doing all of the time.

I hope that Orchid or some of the others that have gone through this with children come and respond to you. My sense in the tone of your posts is that you are ready to go to plan B. It really took a lot for me to go that way and WH got angry (or so I hear, we're not speaking) and sometimes I feel scared and alone, but on balance, I think it was the right thing for me to do to protect the dwindling love and respect I have left for my H.

order up!

Unsureheart-Thanks for your thoughts. Ironically, I think I'd be better at Plan B than I am in A because I'm a better distancer than non LBer. However, we see each other everyday b/c of kids. I've been pretty detached since this happened..really think maybe I'm truly starting to let go. I still struggle with the acting aloof vs. trying to date him. He needs to be admired and I didn't do that at all the past year we were together. But yet, he also wants his space..so what to do?
I'm glad you are doing well in Plan B. 5 months of a good plan A is something to be proud of!
Can't Sleep