</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>PB- and I am sorry if I am too brutally honest for some... One of my character assets, yet defects.. I am VERY HONEST.

Hugs and luck to all of you, prayers of course. HONEY</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So Honey, it is all right for you to be honest but not others.

Honey this is how I answered one of your questions about a month ago. I told you about my husband and his battle with alchol, but you chose to ignor everything I said. I told you some of the things I went though and how hard it was on me and my husband. I never once told you to D your husband. I did tell you that he need help. So don't say that no one understands what your going though. I told you then and I will tell you now I understand. There are many here who have lived with alcholism who have given you some very good advise. As someone else said you seem to get angry if the advise is not to your liking. I know that you want your marriage to work, and that is why you are here. Just remember this, to have a real marriage you need two people working 100% of the time on the marriage. You can not do all the work yourself. Your husband needs to go to AA if he is ever going to get better. Alcholism is a disease, and AA is the cure. Until he admits he is powerless over alchol and needs help nothing you do will make your marriage any better. Yes he may come home, but what will that be like. Wondering if he is out getting drunk, maybe having another Affair. Is that how you want to spend the rest of your life? If it is then my prays are with you because you will need them. ellyn


Honey, I am the wife of an alcoholic also, the difference being that my husband has been in AA for over 20 years, so I know what you are feeling now. I went thought the same things very early in our marriage due to his drinking. He would spend his pay check on drinking, he could not hold a job, he never got fired he always quit before they let him go, he would rather spend time with his friends at the bar then be at home with me and our new baby. I can remember locking him out, taking the car keys, dumping his beer down the drain, all to try and stop him from drinking. I would fight with him, not speak to him for days until he cryed and begged me to forgive him and promised to be a better husband and father. That never lasted long, after a few days he was drinking again, and even when I thought he wasn't he was. Nothing worked. Until I finally told him when he was sober that I was not going to let our daughter grow up with a drunk for a father. I told him get help or he would loss the both of us, never see us again. I packed up all the babies things and mine and told him he could let me know what he wanted to do. That day he called AA for help and has not had a drink since. What I am tying to tell you is you have to make up your mind what you want. If you take him back as he is now you will never have a happy life and neither will he or your kids. He has to loss everything, hit rock bottom to really see that he needs help. I know that it is very hard to do, believe me I love my husband with all my heart and always have. Telling him that I was going to leave him and never see him again was the hardest thing to do, but what kind of life would my daughter and I have had? A life were my daughter would be afraid to bring her friends home because her father could be drunk and her friends could see? A life were we would never have anything we wanted or needed because he was spending all our money on drinking? I could not live like that or do that to our daughter. You also have to remember that a drunk will do things while drinking that he would not do sober. Your husband's ow go along with his drinking. My husband was going though a MLC when he had his A. He wanted to prove he was still young and wanted to get back the excitment he felt when he was drinking. He knew that if he took a drink he would not be able to stop and everyone would know, so he did the next best thing, he had an A. He stopped going to his AA meetings too. He got all the excitement he had from drinking, he was lying and doing things in secret just like when he was drinking. During his A he was what is called a dry drunk, that is someone who does not drink but has all the same attitudes of a drunk. Thank God his A ended and he is going to his AA meetings again. We started MC when he ended the A and he is also going to IC. He is a NYC Police Officer and was at the WTC on 9/11/01 were he was hurt and is also suffering from PTSD so we have been thought a lot this past 16 months but things are getting better. I understand that you love your husband and that you want him and your marriage, but you have to stop and think about what this is doing to you and your kids. Have you gone to any al-anon meetings? I know its hard to hear everyone tell you to dump him, forget him unless he stops drinking, believe me I heard it all from everyone. I know that you are hurt and confussed, I understand what you are feeling, I really do. I understand your pain, you want your kids to have a father and you want the man you love, the man he is when he is sober. I know my husband was so great to me when he was sober, but when he drank he could be mean and hurtful. He would start fights just so he could walk out and go to the bar. He did the same thing while he was having his A, he would call me from work and start a fight on the phone so he could say he was going to just work late and stay at work. I know now that it was so he could spend the night at the ow's house. What I am trying to tell you is there is help for your husband if he wants it, but he has to admit that he has a problem before he can get the help. You taking him back while he is still drinking will not help him. What you do is really up to you, I hope I have not hurt you by anything I have said. That is the last thing I wanted to do, I just wanted to let you know that things can get better and that there is help for you and your husband if you want it. I will pray for you and your kids and pray that your husband can find the doors to an AA meeting. The people that my husband and I have met these past 20 years have been the best friends you could ever ask for. They are always there for us, at any hour of the day or night, willing to help with whatever problem we have. God Bless you and your family, Ellyn

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: ellyn ]</small>

Honey ~ As you know, you and I are in somewhat similar situations, except that my WH has admitted that he is an alcoholic and is seeking help. I only want to pass on one suggestion to help you understand the effect your H's drinking could be having on your sons: Go to an Adult Child of Alcoholism (ACOA) Meeting or get the book Adult Children of Alcoholism. It will truly open your eyes. This is what caused me to draw the line in the sand and tell my WH that the drinking had to stop or he had to leave and have no contact with me and DS. Now, WH's Relapse Prevention Plan instructs me that if he starts drinking, I am to Plan B him and do whatever else is necessary to protect myself and our son. The reason is because, in addition to being an alcoholic, WH is a ACOA and KNOWS very well how destructive a parent's drinking can be on children.

NO ONE IS TELLING YOU TO D JIM, WE ARE ONLY TELLING YOU TO PUT YOURSELF AND YOUR SONS FIRST ~ BEFORE JIM AND BEFORE YOUR MARRIAGE ~ AND TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND SONS. WE CARE THAT IS WHY WE ARE TELLING YOU THIS

Hugs,

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43, Sober 36 days today!
DS-1 year old
Status: One Day At A Time.

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

I stopped commenting on your threads a looong time ago Honey .... ever wonder why?

Pep

BB- Thanks I have been to ACOA meetings, read on the affects of Alcoholic as a parent, etc. and I do worry for my kids..but I will not take him completely out of their lives..

My kids rarely see their dad right now, and my prayer is that he is bottoming. I would not allow his crazy drinking routines in our home, and IMHO.. that is why he ran away.. albeit I am not taking responsibility....

I PRAY for his recovery but can't make him. We are seperated and I don't condone what he does. I appreciate your support ... this is a horrid disease.. thanks again for your referrals to
MIProgresss- I love it!

I GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT>. and I don't know why.. WHY people are so oppossed to being told their comments are not what is wanted or needed or what will be done???

I guess it is a part of my personality not liked by some here. I am brutally honest.. I see that some here dish , but don't take it back. HUGS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pepper, I do wonder WHY.... ???? You bothered to reply rudely to me this am???? WHY Bother? As I have sd before? Never knew I had issue with you, but perhaps you are here to seek pats on the back for your wisdom? I don't know, but that is not why I come.

Hugs, and luck to you in your life.. remember I recall you were once a bs yourself.? Why hang around ONLY to advise others on what they should do?

It seems you are a counselor and you use this as a practice forum for yourself... glad you choose to post to those who think you are WISE.

I didn't say you don't have good suggestions or advise.. but I do wonder why you chose to try to INSULT me????

H

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Honey- go back up one and read your response.

Your CHILD is out of control.

Sing dearheart, I am coming to my defense.. Glad you like to put me down too!???? Wow, what fun?

You sure do hold a grudge? Don't know- but I see you always like to come to my offense and I still remember that comment you made about comparing me to your students? That is not very kind SING. I don't at all mind brutal honesty - but cruelty- YES... think about it?

good day.

H

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Man, you are off your rocker... contradicting yourself all over the place, and acting like a defensive teenager. Fine, do what you want with your life. Don't come cryin' to us when things don't go your way.

Good luck with your M, you're gonna need it!!!

Head meet brick wall, repeat until unconsious.

Why are you guys still trying to get her to listen? I think after the first go around with BR it became painfully obvious that Honey has no interest in open, adult discourse in any of her threads. She has a problem with the perception of people "telling her what to do"(none of us are your parents, you know, we can't tell you what to do. We're adults talking on an adult's message board.) and will go into a tizzy if she even smells the scent of dissention or anyone suggesting she needs to protect herself.

If you wish to support Honey, just give her what she wants. Smile, nod, give a pat on the shoulder and that's it. She's made up her mind on her plan of action whether is fails or succeeds now is in her hands.

No one here is used to pussyfooting around posters but in this case that's just the way it is. Why stir the pot when it's getting everyone no where?

WS's are not the only ones that go into a fog, Bs's do too. But like the WS they too need to find their own way out of it.

As an aside, brutal honesty and constant contridictions don't go hand in hand.

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</small>

Honey - You know what I was not going to respond to anymore of your posts because I am not really one to talk - but I basically read your story so I don't become like you - I want to have a life - I don't want to be miserable for the rest of my life - I really and I again repeat that I do not believe these people are bashing you - I believe you are acting childish in your responses to these people - I mean most of them are talking from experience - they are not just throwing out suggestions - I mean really - you are all hugs and christ like in your life - but what the heck is that really??? I mean the stuff that you write here is all over the place - 1. I owe my parents tons of money - 2. I have no money because my husband doesn't give me any 3. I make close to 200,000 a year because I have a MBA 4. I am looking for a new job - what exactly do you do??? 5. My kids are fine not affected by WS 6. WS is drinking while older son works like a slave - wants to take 4 year old to haunted house and Jack*ss - 7. He is going to church - he hasn't been to church - 8. Your parents bought your house - and you were going to buy it in a few years - ?? If you made so much money you should have been able to buy it yourself....I could go on and on - but it would be forever - then you say you are brutally honest and everyone is out to get you - What you don't get is that everyone is out to HELP you - you just don't want to be helped - you want to stay married fine, you want to be in chrislike love - fine - you want to control your husband - or oops have him control you??? The question by everyone here is how long do you put up with this??? When are you going to accept the fact that he has an illness and yes you can love him and yes you can be married to him - but you cannot fix him - Your children are young - they need a stable life - Your husband just left one apartment and he did not move home - because one you say - he won't go to your house - and then in the next breath you say you are staying there??? Well that you say your are brutally honest ??? About what - And just let me say that I am not in any way shape or form - bashing you - I believe that having someone treat you like this is the worst thing that anyone could possibly live through - but you have to accept it is what it is and help yourself because you cannot help him..... All of these people have give you great advice - NO ONE IS BASHING YOU - I really think they all have better things to do.....

Maw, thank you for having the big brass ones in order to post that. Good for you. Yes, a little consistency would be nice in this story.

Thank you very much !!! Nduli2 - I am just aggravated I feel that the posts that are the most honest and direct are the ones that help me the most - they make me stronger and feel that it is ok - that I am ok - Honey will not accept that people want to help her - and right now she is in a no win situation and it isn't going to help her husband - he has to do it himself... I really wish she would see the light and take everyones great advice - I have been helped so much by most of the advice that she is not wanting...

Maw, I think you're going to be just fine. Sure you are still going to have the rough patches all of us who go through this junk do, but you sound well grounded and ready to face it. *hugs*

FYI--- this has gotten out of hand.. what is this HONEY BASHING if I don't like and take your advise.

Maw and others.. you don't know me- and you have gotten some of your facts mixed up... if I say I don't like your advise what is the problem with that?

H

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Wow honey.

Do you believe in MB??

First of all, if you're in Plan A -- its a bad one. You're all over the place with tons of LB'ers. So get some consistancy in your life.

Second, if you believe in these principals go back and read AGAIN about marriage building while there is an ongoing addication.

Saving your marriage at this point is not possible. You need to put that on a back burner honey and focus on some more important things.

I certainly don't think you should divorce Jim. But at the same time, your focus should not be on your marriage.

Your focus belongs on creating and maintaining a healthy life for those 2 little boys.

You've been given awesome advice from some of the most incredibly people. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, calm down, and go back and read.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>MAW--- and others.. MAW is getting or has already gotten a D.. enough sd. Why bother me?

H</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and so? You've already gotten a D once too in your life does that mean nothing you say has any worth?

LEXXY- " Saving your marriage at this point is not possible. "

I don't get it? This is MB- why would I come here for that?

Also- what makes my disagreement with people here, make me bad or wrong??? or immature, or childish? Don't get it.

H

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Its about respect Honey.

People are taking a lot of time to post to you.

Most people take what they want, and ignore the rest. You seem to battle with those who give you advice you don't like.

Please just open your mind. Even advice you don't want to hear might be right.

All the posters here CARE about you. Even if its harsh, even if you don't agree with it. They still have YOUR best interests at heart. Please just appreciate that.

It's not that you disagree it's the way you disagree. OK?? You do that OK thing a lot in your posts and it sounds petulant and childish. You get angry to the point of being nearly incoherent when someone says anything you really don't like. You immediately start saying everyone "bashing" you. No one's bashing you but people are getting impatient with you.

It's also hard for many of us to agree with you when your stories change almost daily. One day you're poor as a church mouse and can't afford your kid a CD at the mall, the next you're pulling down six figures....so which is it?

This is a community of very giving and open people, take advantage of it and be open and honest yourself. Don't get pissed at the drop of a hat and if you want people to hear you out get them the facts.

Honey,

I have read most of the posts and responses here, I have a question.

If your M is not salvagable (for the moment), what is your next step?

Options:
1. Continue to pretend it is and live in a very painful fantasy world hurting you and everyone else?

2. Face reality and refocus. Honestly evaluate your life and that of your children so that at least their lives are safe? Set your priorities for you and them first?

Maybe there are other options or can be worded better, the point is that the choice to stay or move on is just as much yours as Jim's.

On the other hand, right now your children are dependent on both your choices. They don't have as much control over this.....U do.

Honey, in many cases D is actually a required step to healing. D does NOT mean the end of the world. Nor does it mean that you are a failure. No, D means that the M is ended but your life still exists, your family still exists and you still have the right to be happy.

Honey, you have a better chance of recovery if you let go vs holding on to what is not what your family needs.

Let me ask you, would you wish this on any other family? I know I didn't. Yet it happened to mine and I fought hard to keep what is mine. No OP or WS was going to deny me of that. See there is a point where the love for our spouse has a limit and then our survival instincts kick in. When it doesn't the entire family dies. Do you want that?

It is ok honey, you can cry, kick, scream and vent. That is what we have all done. Until I learned to let go, I truly truly did not heal. Even with recovery setbacks, I can still move forward with grace and dignity.

Don't be afraid to let go. Jim won't do worse than what he is doing now. He is already out there damaging himself. There is nothing new he can pull over your eyes. Maybe just in a different way. Your mind and body have already been primed for future shocks.

Now let's help you heal........Honey, you will be ok but you have to believe it first. That is the first step. ok?

I would like to hear your response because depending on your answer I have a few more things to say.

take care,
L.