Just when I thought I was making some ground, I checked out a dating site and there is my wife again!!! Is this a sure sign she will not try reconciliation? I am trying so hard, but she wants to go out right away and find someone. Do I go into plan B now or do I still do A?

The following is a copy of how she describes herself and what she is looking for:

What they say about themselves:
I am an outgoing, fun-loving girl. I'm looking for friendship first-maybe more, depending on the person. I need someone to stimulate me mentally as well as physically. I am very busy with work, etc.

What they say about their dream mate:
He must keep me guessing and always interested. I need someone who can be my friend first, before anything else. A good sense of humor and honesty are also important.

I never had a problem stimulating her anyway!lol
I admit I messed up on honesty, but it appears I now have no chance.

AlanArthur. I need to reply to this. But I can't at the moment. Will do so in the morning.
Hang in there. KEEP PLAN A'ing. Don't change that. Don't ket her know you know about the site.

Keep your head up.

HW

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: happinesswithin ]</small>

Too late. My brother emailed her the info. They hate each other. He acted like he found it and is going to tell me. So I will be expecting another phony call like I got a couple of weeks ago.

I don't know. I feel like giving up. She doesn't want me anymore. She can't get over the anger and pain. Maybe I do have to realize she doesn't love me anymore and there is nothing I can do to make her want to be married to me. No wonder she accepts the gifts and such. She has the best of both worlds. Internet chat and dating and a husband who loves her. I hope one day she realizes how much her husband loved her and it was a marriage and family worth fighting for.

I will say it again... Right now the best thing you can do is leave her alone without ANY contact... Please open up some space for her... Any form of gifts or asking her out at this point will do nothing but show her that you are still pursuing her....

Let her contact you... when she does , act happy, upbeat and pleasant.... You need to be a happy person... That is step one......

Remember that leaving her alone IS doing something.. Quit thinking that space is bad... Give her space and let her deal with her thoughts. In the meantime, work on becoming a happy person with a full life..

I am telling you , at this point, there really is only one option that will start to turn things around, and that is no contact for awhile... Any time you try to contact her right now is going to be viewed as pressure... First , take off ALL pressure and then you can reevaluate your game plan . You can look and look on here for people to nudge you to find some way to contact without it being pursuit, but she is going to see right thru it at this point. She will then think it is just another way to get her back, which probably will backfire on you. With her state of mind right now, the best thing to do is leave her alone.

Alan,

You want a bold suggestion? Not very MB at all but here goes: Answer her add. Describe yourself and exenuate your appealing qualities but hide your identity.

When she finds out that you know about your advertising, just act cool. Say something like, what already been shocked before you still keep playing the same games? Getting dull lady....... hurts but it is dull...... do better next time. (reverse babble).

Don't identify yourself. See if she gets worked up over you and let her stew in it. That is what the A does. They make their own fantasy. She will swoon over this 'great guy' and all along it could be you. But this could also make you very angry, you will have to learn to curb your temper and not give away what you are doing.

Oooh boy, gonna get flamed for this one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

IMHO,
L.

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid...no, not very MB, but good idea. It could turn out just like the "Pina Colada Song"!

That's how he should reply to her...Ask her if she likes pina coladas and getting caught in the rain!

AlanArthur ,

Sorry for the pain you are going through.
I haven't posted to you but I have been following your thread.

I just couldn't hold back anymore. I loved Orchids suggestion!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Orchid,
I'm for sure not flaming you, I love it!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care of yourself
bb

PS:

Orchid,

Right ON! I was thinking the same exact thing as I was reading.

My only concern is that if his wife does respond to this, she may say some really hurtful things about Alan to her "fantasy" guy. I'm not sure if that is the best for him.
I like the "If you like Pina Colada" approach very much!

And just in case not everyone knows the lyrics...

I was tired of my lady
We'd been together too long
Like a worn-out recording
Of a favorite song
So while she lay there sleeping
I read the paper in bed
And in the personal columns
There was this letter I read

"If you like Pina Coladas
And getting caught in the rain
If you're not into yoga
If you have half a brain
If you'd like making love at midnight
In the dunes on the Cape
Then I'm the love that you've looked for
Write to me and escape."
I didn't think about my lady
I know that sounds kind of mean
But me and my old lady
Have fallen into the same dull routine
So I wrote to the paper
Took out a personal ad
And though I'm nobody's poet
I thought it wasn't half bad

"Yes I like Pina Coladas
And getting caught in the rain
I'm not much into health food
I am into champagne
I've got to meet you by tomorrow noon
And cut through all this red-tape
At a bar called O'Malley's
Where we'll plan our escape."
,
So I waited with high hopes
And she walked in the place
I knew her smile in an instant
I knew the curve of her face
It was my own lovely lady
And she said, "Oh it's you."
Then we laughed for a moment
And I said, "I never knew."

That you like Pina Coladas
Getting caught in the rain
And the feel of the ocean
And the taste of champagne
If you'd like making love at midnight
In the dunes of the Cape

You're the lady I've looked for
Come with me and escape


It could happen!

Alan, I'm sorry for your pain, and I am in no way poking fun. I just think Orchid's idea was a good way to approach the issue.

I'm joining the bandwagon - LOVE Orchid's suggestion! In fact, I thought the same thing!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You could set up a new hotmail account under a new name, have a new instant messenger id and REALLY woo her by just being yourself. When she starts asking personal questions, be vague:

Have you ever been married?

Yes, my wife and I are currently separated. Does that present a problem for you?

How long were you married?

Give her a number that only counts the time that you were living together and leave out the time you've been separated. OR respond with, we were together xxxx years ~ then, count the time you dated as well as the time you were married.

What do you do for a living?

(Suppose your an accountant for an oil company)

I work in finance ~ corporate america, what fun.

Once she seems hooked, woo were some more by sendign her e-cards from your hotmail account, etc.

BUT, be yourself. THEN, once she is on the line, set your hook by arranging to meet her. Then, set a time and place and show up after she is already there.

Just some thoughts. One caution, though. Does he have a restraining order against you? IF SO, ignore all of these ideas. DO NOT VIOLATE THE RESTRAINING ORDER NO MATTER WHAT.

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS- 1 year old

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>You want a bold suggestion? Not very MB at all but here goes: Answer her add. Describe yourself and exenuate your appealing qualities but hide your identity.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not very MB at all!!!

But guess what? That's EXACTLY what I did(we were divorced at the time though). We chatted for hours on Messenger a few times. I simply acted like myself to her online, changing a few obvious things that would've given me away. But I do feel that I made her miss me(the real me) because I would mention things that we enjoyed together.

It went on for a few weeks, until I started feeling guilty about it, also it was at that time that we started seeing each other again and eventually got back together and re-married.

I told her everything and she wasn't mad. She says she suspected a little that it was me, but not much since it was a paid online service and I was broke. But little did she know at the time that the service was running a free trial membership <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I certainly wouldn't recommend this to anyone... but I do wonder how much that had to do with us getting back together.

Good luck!
TTFN

One other thought - why not use this opportunity to get her to tell you her EN's and also to pin her down on her and make her squirm re: her behavior. For example, tell her honesty and faithfulness are very important values to you. Tell her that your last wife cheated on you and it broke your heart, so you are very careful and protective of yourself and want to know that she believes in those concepts as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Brit's Brat

Thanks for all the advise......but alot has happened this morning. My brother had emailed the letter he sent her to me. Low and behold she called me first thing this morning. She said it wasn't her on ther (she changed her description a little since last time) but I know it is. Anyway, she said she is about ready to move away.....she wants everyone to leave her alone. What she does is her business. She thinks my EA over a year agao and her dating now are different, because now we are separated and getting a divorce. She said had I done things differently when we parted ways that she might have wanted to work on it---hOOOOOOeey!!! I left on 9-5 she signed dissolution petition on 9-16.

She says she doesn't care about EA I had anymore. She wishes I had told her the truth a year ago. She said our marriage has been bad. I said all of it? She said no just the end! (well no kidding) She said she gave me all these chances and they never meant anything then....why now? She says it has got way past the point she would even consider trying to work on things. She says I don't love her it is just guilt. I said I know there are other men out there better than me and women out there for me. She said then why do you want to be with me? I said because I truly love you and would like to make things work. To make our marriage a beautiful place you'd like to be.

I did tell her of my plans on moving to Omaha to take advantage of the opportunity for me. She got a little upset. She is from Omaha and has no friends/family here. She would be stuck in town of 4000 by herself. She got upset when I told her I had tickets to the concert. She can't believe I'm spending money on things like that when there are other obligations. She said she is broke right now and bills are piling up (it will only get worse.....Iowa winter, by herself, with no money) I asked her if she would like help with anything...she said NO.

She asked why I have been getting her little gifts and that I should spend that money on other things, like our daughter. I am paying temp. child support and paying ALL of daycare (don't have to). She said if I think because of her financial situation, if I feel that will bring her crawling back to a bad marriage then I'm mistaken. I said I wouldn't want her back for that reason. She said she feels we were never meant to be together?????WHAT?? I wish I had known that/felt that 7 years ago. She said she feels like throwing all my gifts away. I told her I got then to show her I care and do love her. I said I didn't do alot of these things before and now I realize how special she really is. She said card I got her didn't mean anything. She said she looked at it and reminded her of EA I had. I think since she gave me so many clues that she is done with marriage or wanting to work on it....that she doesn't expect me to continue PLAN A. I think I should continue all the way to divorce and pay some of the smaller bills? This way it won't seem that it was only to win her back and that I do truly love her from the shadows.........and hope that maybe something will change her feelings.

GUESS WHAT? The dreammate profile she had on (that she said wasn't her) was deleted within 1 hour after talking to her!!!!!!Who could it have been????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I feel so bad that she feels she needs to look elsewhere when she has a caring husband willing to give up everything for the love of her and family. Why do they make you feel like the bad guy? She did say she can forgive me and go on. I said forgiveness is earned not just given and I don't think I deserve that yet.

What do I do now.....keep plan A'ing up to end of divorce? Ask for time at end of divorce so I can continue to make changes she can see. I will not contact her through any medium now.....except small gifts & notes every week through daughter's bag. Seems she enjoys this "courting and attention" a little".

Tell me your views, especially any spouses that have been where my wife is.

AlanArthur,
Have you read Greg Baer's "The Truth About Relationships"? if you haven't, please get it and read it.
I don't mean to be critical or harsh with this next comment, so please don't take offense to it.
I see in your posts someone who seems desperate. Doing things for your Wife expecting something in return from her. If I can see desperation and impatience in your posts, I can absolutely guarantee she sees it in you. You may not say it but she sees it. Love her unconditionally.
Be confident in yourself and don't worry about what she does, thinks and says. She will SEE this much more than she would sending little notes and buying her little gifts. She already expects that of you. Show her someone different, confident, compassionate, This, she WILL see, because she is not expecting to see it.
When the sun comes up everyday do you expect it? yes. What would you do if that changed? Wouldn't you WONDER? If someone TOLD you it wasn't going to come up what would you think. You wouldn't believe them.
OK that is a really bad example, lol. If the sun didn't come up we'd all freak out, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain to you.
Take care bro, and try not to dwell on her. I know that's impossible to even comprehend, but it's only been 2 months since my D-day and I've been able to do that. I actually smile a lot now. But, I owe a lot of that to ole 2Long and a lot of others.

HW

I am with HW on this one. I am by no means an expert and I am still struggling with Plan A but I have seen a difference in my W's attitude when I sound confident and don't sound desperate.

I hope you don't get offended but I, too, think you sound pretty desperate. I know exactly how you feel. Some of the things your W has told you sound exactly like what my W has told me. Some of the things you have done I did myself shortly after d-day. IT DOES NOT WORK. Sorry to say it that way.

Give her the space, how can she clear the fog if you are there contributing to it?

Be strong, my friend. You too shall pass this test. Change for yourself not for her. Respect yourself first, desperation only gets you disrespect.

Be well.

<small>[ October 31, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

Ok.....new news!
I have to do something different now. My W called me at work late and asked if I had been in the house (her place). I said of course not. She asked if my brother had. I said of course not he has been here working. House is 20 miles away. She said someone had been in the house and erased messages on answering machine. (again SHE called me violating RO) She thinks I had something to do with it. I asked her why I would do something stupid to go to jail and I want to save our marriage.

Of course I was concerned about the two of them. She hung up. I then called the local police and advised the officer. He said he would check on her. I also wanted to cover myself and told him we have both been violating RO. I told him she calls when convenient for her (knowing I won't report her), but if I was to call she threatens jail through her lawyer. I told him I was going to talk to my lawyer about dismissing RO. He agreed it can't be used when convenient. I also told him to tell her she can call me anytime (don't want to close off communication). Anyway, while talking to officer, who calls on other line? My W!!!! So cop starts laughing. She hung up when I told her who I was talking to. He said he'd check on them. She called me again later!!! Told me to butt out of her affairs. If she wants the police to come by she will call them. I told her I was concerned and she is my D too. She asked if I was going to attempt to dismiss RO? I said maybe....what do you want?

I then became a little more aggressive. I told her I was tired of being treated like a damn doormat. For her walking pleasure. Boy that caught her attention. She said don't turn the tables. I said NO I am tired of it. I have feelings too and deserve to be treated like a person. She changed her tune a little.

She then started talking about relationship......another 1 hour phone call. She said she only had one date. She said my brother and I have made her not want to meet anyone right now. She said she is not in contact with anyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I then let the concerned and caring side come out and she started to laugh again! I told her wife or ex-wife I will always be there for her. I love her and always will. There is no man in U.S that loves her more than me. I told her we all make mistakes and learn from them. I told her I always want to be her friend no matter what happens. (I did this with a positive upbeat attitude) She said she was feeling better about herself, but after another bad day she feels like moving away. Her house lease signing comes up this month. I again asked her about going to concert as friends. She stated that probably wouldn't be a good idea. I said that's fine I can always go with cousin, but we could have fun. (reminded her of past concert fun). I told her to let me know in a couple of weeks if she changes her mind.

She said it was nice hearing compliments from OM she dated (he was a player). She said I never said things to make her feel special <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I felt bad that she feels this way. I am such an [censored]. I told her I would and could make everything up to her if given the chance. She said it would have been nice to have you notice me more nad treat me better. She really feels I neglected her and I did. I told her at this point I would make any sacrifice to help our marriage.

She said right now she is about broke. I asked her if she needed any help. She said don't bother. I said I am here for you and will give you anything I have, how much? She said I don't know. I told her to call me tomarrow if she needs help financially.

We had a good good conversation. I told her to call me anytime.

She knows I'm working on myself. I know she can see changes. Do I stay in Plan A for a few more weeks and then maybe go to plan B if no changes? I just feel terrible if she is manipulating me again. I will not contact her. I will wait for her.

How should I handle next conversation? No relationship talk unless she brings up? Short talk now? Still give her a card once a week? She is definately trying to be independant (which is good), but she is looking for a man to treat her right. She is still harboring a ton of anger and resentment that I did not fulfill my job as friend, husband, lover to the best of my ability. I think she is upset that I am changing now, but why didn't you do it until it came to this point? I know she is scared about trying again.

She said she's just looking for a friend. I know she's looking for a friend first......lover next. I need to get through before that happens.

What should be my next step now that you all can see what she is like??

Question?????????

My wife knows it bothers me that she is trying to date (date sites) and chatting on the internet with OM.

What do you all think about me putting my profile on a few of them hoping she sees it?

Could this be effective? Jelousy? Or would she view it as a double standard and say "he doesn't care about me. Same person...all lies and manipulation!"

Let me know what you all think.

Calling 2Long and TMCM, remember that 2x4 that you guys used to continually ( and much deservedly) whack me over the head with? Is it broken yet? if not please Fedex it overnight. AlanArthur, I'm sorry for the pain you are feeling. I don't mean to be...well...mean, but please, please do not react to the emotion eminating from you Wife. It will change daily, even sometimes hourly. Look at the change in emotion already today. I know you feel it is because of your talk with her. But I can also see that you expect something from her because of your talk. If you are then be prepared for dissapointment. Im not trying to be cynical here. I have just been through it too many times myself. My Wife moved out and on that day told me she would call me in the middle of the night to just talk. She asked me if i would ever come to her place and lay with her. I expected a phone call that night. Didn't get it and it almost killed me inside. 2 days later she telling me she wants to divorce. Now, I'm not saying it is that drastic in your case, but please, for your own sanity and emotional well being, let go of her. I don't mean forget about her. I mean if you let her go emotionally you will be much better able to make the changes in you. I still see desperation in your posts. I know you want things to change before something else happens. You cannot make her or convince her to change. You have to show her YOU have changed. She will see it. But if you put a timeline on having her see it, then I am sorry but you may as well get on with your life now.
Show her unconditional love. What I am seeing from you is conditional. You are wanting to make changes in yourself (good) but wanting something in return from your wife for you making those changes (bad). I'm sorry if I'm being blunt here. And I am sorry if I'm upsetting you. There is no quick fix. Well there is if you don't want to save your marriage. be patient. i know harder said than done. I know I keep harping on Greg Baer's book, but I really think if you read it, you would change your attitude and your wife would respond even sooner.

My Wife has been showing some anger and victimization. As she dropped off my youngest tonight, I looked at her and just said I hope you have a good evening. You should have seen the look on her face. Priceless. She didn't expect it, because she thought I was mad at her because of the way she was behaving today. Funny thing I wasn't mad. She can't MAKE ME mad. I smile a lot now.

HW

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: happinesswithin ]</small>

Your right I have to concentrate on making myself happy. If she calls I will tell her how nice it is to hear her voice, keep it short, be positive and upbeat, no relationship talk unless SHE brings it up.........give her a little cold shoulder......your right I have to get over the desperation thing.....she does sense it. She even told the priest she doesn't think it's love, but desperation. This is hard though. Exhausting. I planted a lot of seeds in our talk. I guess I have to kick back and see if she sorts out what she wants.