AlanArthur, your comment brought to mind a quote I heard. It goes something like this. "Planting and watering a grain of wheat is an act of faith. We don't know if it will grow, or when. We can only plant it and wait."
I agree you need to work on making yourself happy. I'm glad your seeing the depseration thing too. Yes, it is very difficult and exhausting, but if this was easy what would you learn from it?
The only other things I would add is that I wouldn't do the cold shoulder thing, just a little aloof maybe. Show confidence with yourself and she'll see the difference.

Take Care. I'll check back with you often. I hope I can help, only if it's just a little.

2long & TMCM, cancel the order on the 2x4. Place it on hold for the time being. Might still need it here in the future. But I think AlanArthur will do just fine.

HW

AlanArthur,

My computer was down the whole ay and still is. I installed DSL, works like a charm, I installed wireless hub. work like a charmed for my 2 D 's laptops but when I tried to hook up my clunker, I get into trouble. I will be short and to the point.

I told you before that your plan A will take effect and I will be surprise if it will take more than 3 weeks. I am dead right. She can't hold it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Please continue w/ your plan A ... do not change it. You 've done good job actually telling her that you have done this for her regardless of the outcome of M. I think she saw it and start to open the line of communication. Do not slow down on your plan A and your mind frame right now should be "I love you and I would do anything to save this M but I hate what you are doing". Reverse babble of I love you but I am not in love with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . From what she is saying she starts recognize that you are a better option and she is curious to find out about "new you". Keep your takers at bay, keep plan A'ng and avoid LB'ed ... she will contact you again. I will post again tonite.

Good job. -rh-

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Your right...........I need to continue to A and expect NOTHING in return. I am sure she will call today. I can guarantee you she will think seriously about concert now that I planted seed. If not it will drive her crazy knowing I'm going with "someone". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> She is seeking the new Alan......I can just tell.....I still know my wife......she was telling me things I didn't do right in relationship. She knows the tough road ahead.......I don't know if she is strong enough to take it alone. I must show her I am confident in myself and can make it without her. I know she hated hearing that I may move next year......then she's stuck here!

Anyway if I get more news I will let you know.

Alan,

I hate to keep harping on this but just give me the benefit of the doubt and read:

Do not expect her to call tonight. I know this is difficult: everytime my phone rings I think/hope it is my W. But you see, the problem is if you set yourself expectations about her reaction you WILL be disappointed. She may not react the way you normally expect her to react. I am at a point now that I do not expect her phone calls at night. It doesn't mean I don't wish her to call me, I do, but I just don't expect it.

Forget about her going to the concert with you. Again, if you set expectations from her you WILL be disappointed. She may go or she may not go. You have no control over that. Get yourself a Plan B in place in case she does not go.

My whole point is setting expectations at this point only serve the purpose of hurting yourself because they do not happen. You are where I was the first three months after my d-day. Do not make the same mistakes I did. Start doing activities for yourself. Let her come to you. Stop pursuing her. All you can do is avoid LB's, fill her ENs and continue with your life. Remember you CAN live without her. I know you don't prefer that, I can tell you I don't, but knowing and accepting that you can be alone can help you get out of this desperation mode.

Be well.

Thanks for advise.

O.k I will not EXPECT her to call me. She gave indications last night that she would. If she does great! If not -OH Well.

She said last night that it was nice that guys are flirting with her(something she never really cared for)but now she says It makes her feel good. I understand. She felt big, fat and ugly last few years after baby. I did not do enough to boost her up and for that I feel bad. I have told her how I can make things up to her.

I am NOT going to pursue her anymore. I will however keep plan A---Remember I can't see her with RO in place. Question??????? Should I have lawyer pursue dismissal of RO? There is much evidence of contact by both of us that a judge would surely throw it out. Then I could pick up my daughter from her so she can witness changing Alan. She is living by the "out of sight out of mind" theory. Advise appreciated.

Another question????
My wife I know would like to move back to Omaha. I have a chance to open a restaurant there and make loads of $$$$$$$, so should I propose the idea that married or divorced I want to move back and do this. I love you and would like you to join me. We were happier in Omaha and all your friends and relatives are there. There are many things to do and it would allow us to work on our marriage and you would not even have to work full-time......you could spend it with D. My dream is to be with my family and make you happy.

SEE if she doesn't move she is stuck here......financially hurting, lonely, no close friends or relatives......and approaching Iowa winter. Small town and everything closes at 7pm. She loves Omaha......do I approach her....plant seed of starting over and building marriage?

Let me know how you all would approach.

Thanks for all good advise. Even if gets close to D Day I am going to ask her for more time so I can prove the changes and I'm not finishes.

Also, I thought of just offering her tickets to concert a few days before......wouldn't be fun without her. Let her know she can take anyone she wishes. It would probably be sis as it is held right outside Omaha....a nice weekend excursion for her to get away for the weekend.

She said I never said things to make her feel special I felt bad that she feels this way.
Lots of things are "forgotten" by the ws at times like this. Don' tput too much stock in it.

What do you all think about me putting my profile on a few of them hoping she sees it?

Could this be effective? Jelousy? Or would she view it as a double standard and say "he doesn't care about me. Same person...all lies and manipulation!"

Very much tha opposite effect. It's NOT what married people do. You are still married and everything you do needs to be portrayed as if you still are, even if she is not acting married.

Thanks Chris.....sorry I seemed harsh on you before....I need the critisism to make me a better person.

Your right she will say things about things she is forgetting or blocking out. I have to realize this. I already have seen so many things that she would have never said or believed before. She justifys everything. Like I'll say we had a great time at the concert last summer. She had fun and drank a little too much. Then she'll say"the only reason I got that drunk was because I was feeling depressed". WRONG. That's why she was all over me and clinging to me.....singing...dancing Depression??? I think not. She says it now to make me believe our whole togetherness was wrong and justify what she is doing is right.

Yes, I did not think date sites was good idea. I want to prove my loyalty to her.

What do you think about my lawyer getting RO cancelled. How can I build anything by telephone only? Will she get mad if I attempt this or will it cool down?

Also, alot of her issues are she doesn't BELIEVE that I love her or I wouldn't have done some of the things I did and would've treated her better. The whole togetherness wasn't bad. The last 2 years have been more difficult. My question is (if anyone has an answer) How do I prove or restore the feeling of love in her if she is not wishing to see me or work on marriage? Time & space?

sorry I seemed harsh on you before
no problemo... Sometimes I am not the most tactful person.

What do you think about my lawyer getting RO cancelled.
If you foresee no problem with her being (overly) bothersome, then I don't see a problem. Just remember why it was in place in the first place.

How do I prove or restore the feeling of love in her if she is not wishing to see me or work on marriage? Time & space?
Not necessarily. I don't think you should over do it though.

As K told me when I first got on here, many, many years ago.
Whatever things you do in Plan A, this is what you should plan on doing the rest of your life.

Meaning if you buy her a gift every week, then plan on doing it every week for the marriage/relationship.

This is to show the spouse you are permanently changing for the better and it is not a temporary change, "just to win me back."

Slow and steady is what you need to be. Doesn't matter what she says/does, you keep doing what you need to, to save the marriage until you are ready to end it.

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

O.K.
I contacted lawyer about getting hearing about dropping RO. I need to show some backbone. She will need to bring all phone records and give testimony IF she fights it. If she doesn't argue against it it will be dropped. She won't want to go to court.

I will keep plan A'ing my guts out. I will not smother her. I will work on myself. I will prove to her I can be the best thing that ever happened to her......I just temperarily lost my way and now God is helping me. We all make mistakes.

I will have patience and wait for her to come to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> She says it now to make me believe our whole togetherness was wrong and justify what she is doing is right.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup, If she said you were a good person how could she justify her actions. Pretty tough huh?
Even though it hurst to hear it, you can't take it personally. Funny, I actually hear that stuff from my wife now and I just smile the "I know something you don't know smile."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My question is (if anyone has an answer) How do I prove or restore the feeling of love in her if she is not wishing to see me or work on marriage? Time & space?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo, you CANNOT make her see or do anything. You take the chances that you have and make them count. NO DESPERATION. That is especially important if you are not seeing or talking to her much. You don't want your last impression, that she may have for a while, to be of someone desperate and needy. When you do see or talk to her act like life is going on (it actually is you know). SHOW her your love and the changes you've made without TELLING her about them. Confidence in yourself is the best and easiest way to do just that.

Take Care

If you ever get the chance, look up my old posts. Some are only from a couple weeks ago. I think you'll see quite a difference in them from the way I am now. Unconditional Love is responsible. It may not save my marriage, but it feels great.

HW (formerly TORO)

Thanks,
Boy, I get to thinking how much my wife used to love me and admire me and now we are at this point. Feels like a nightmare. I wish she had given some time in filing for divorce. Some thought.

If I keep doing everything right now until we get closer, should I ask the court for joint counseling before decree is signed. Could a good pro-marriage counselor someone shed new light to her that marriage is worth working on or would this be a futile point? I would so much like to say a few things to her in person before divorce is final so I will feel better.

I did tell her last night that whether she is my wife or ex-wife I want to be her friend and told her I will always be there for her. No matter what. I got her to laugh again. Sounded great. I hope I get more conversations like that so maybe she will realize we are friends and we can build upon that.

I decided in a couple of weeks I'll ask her about concert. Promise friends only....no relationship talk. Let her know it won't be so much fun without her. We can even drive separately. If she says no I will say I'll just take my daughter then, but it won't be the same. She will stew, because I KNOW she would TRULY like to go. Kind of like I did went she went with OM to concert 10-09 that I had bought tickets for anniversary present.

You all were right.....SHE DID NOT CALL TODAY <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> This is like out of a script. It's weird that everything I read on here is like so many other relationships! I will not expect anything anymore. I will give to her and expect nothing in return. I will not contact her. As soon as her lawyer tells her I am attempting to have RO dropped.......she WILL call!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AlanArthur:
<strong>If I keep doing everything right now until we get closer, should I ask the court for joint counseling before decree is signed. Could a good pro-marriage counselor someone shed new light to her that marriage is worth working on or would this be a futile point? I would so much like to say a few things to her in person before divorce is final so I will feel better.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have to do that (if you still in plan A) but I hope it won't come to that point if you keep what you have done and no LB and keep your taker away for a while. Keep it constant for next few weeks, you will see some result. For now just wait.

About your new opportunity, don't do it just for her !, it is the wrong reason. You have your family here (mom & brother). If you want to do it 'cause of great opportunity and to start over w/ or w/o W ... then I will visit your restaurant everytime I am going for National Skating Championship during summer ... you have one loyal customer already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I know I am the minority here but she is talking to you because of your plan A ... keep it up & keep your focus. There is no real OM yet ... you could safely give it all to her and let "future" OM compete w/ you.

-rh-

RedHat always a man of much wisdom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will do best I can.....no begging no pursuing no relationship talk unless she brings up. I am going to be the happiest she has ever seen (because she is miserable..I can hear it in her voice) I already did the "I want to be your friend no matter if W or EXW. I will be here for you no matter what you need and I will always be here for you because I will always love you". She was probably stunned when I said that. Now I will wait.

I'm still going to seek dismissal of RO.....has gone on too long and doesn't really mean anything anymore. She needs to see I do have backbone. I want to show her how happy I am in person and that I am getting on with my life with or without her. She knows I can change. She knows things can be different. I will let her have time to decide. Let OM try to compete with the "love deposits" I am going to make! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This will require patience......and I am terrible at that! Little gifts. Table centerpiece for Thanksgiving....should remind her I'm not there. I already picked up a "Missing You This Thanksgiving" card. I can't wait for Xmas....might rewrap $300 watch I bought for her B-day and refused! I had it inscribed with "love you, Alan" If she refuses it at Xmas (about time of decree) I will know it is over, especially if I do all the right things now. Told lawyer to draw out divorce until end of January at least (if can) Smalleys Relationship Center has opening Jan. 6-9 (4 day couple intensive with counselor, room, meals---one of best in country(reg. $2700 they have a grant right now and can get in for only $900) Log cabin in Branson overlooking lake w/fireplace and Jacuzzi in room. I already sent them $450 deposit to hold space for us. I told wife. She said she doesn't know. She'll think about it. Asked if she wanted literature...said she would view there website Smalleys Relationship Center

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

This advice was given to me a couple of days ago... A good thing to do for yourself is to do 100 things 1% better, set yourself small goals, achieve them and pat yourself in the back (thanks, whippit).

It is time you start doing things for yourself in addition to your Plan A. It will make you feel better, will increase your self-esteem and should make you more confident with more self-respect. There are many reasons to do this, I will mention 2: you will be a better person and you will be in a better situation to receive your W when she comes out of the fog.

I know this is hard, but filling her ENs does not mean devoting all your time and attention to her nor waiting by the phone, nor inundating her with gifts, etc. When the phone rings, let it ring a few times before you pick it up. Picking it up on the first or second ring shows how desparate you are.

Remember, she does NOT want a clingy man. She wants a confident and emotionally strong man, somebody who can take care of her. Be that man for her.

You are 100% correct. My wife hates the desperation. She even told the priest that she thinks it is desperation and not love. If I loved her I would give her space and time.

I need to show her confidence. She needs to see I can survive without her. That I can be the man she fell in love with. That I will be supportive of her and her decisions. She knows how I feel, now I have to show it and prove it.

It's so hard. We have talked and seen each other everyday for 7 years and then cold turkey! How can this be easy for her? I know she has some love in her for me, but where?

bump.........please help me......ready to write plan a letter............I sure miss her..........why doesn't she know I love her........she used to know I care so much.........my heart is so shattered............

Went to club tonight........God so many women, but did nothing for me....missed wife so much. None compared to her. It was weird....I lost 40# now.....she hasn't seen me.......I LOOK SSOOOOOOO GOOD (just like she has changed) and women were hitting on me. Wow!! It's been a long time........but I miss my wife <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />