I've just read, what I will call, the attack thread. And I wanted to ask you one question, and make one request.

Question:

What are YOUR boundaries?

Request:

Will you please read my new signature line. Things have changed drastically in my M. And you know why? Because I didn't have my boundaries set. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care,
Karen

Topie, I am thinking... On my way to pick up son from halloween party... so will continue to think.. thanks for the thoughts... and sorry aobut your h... (((((TOPIE)))))))

I truly understand, as my h used to look at porn, prob. still does and countless times lied about it, while I would find it on the history on the computer --- feeling like I need a cosa meeting at this point... codependents of sex addicts!

ANyway, top of my head :

-No porn would be a given if he comes home.
-No ow's at this point in order to try to move forward towards recovery... there is no ow right now.. - if I find out about one, there will be nc.
-Working on the marriage is a boundary if he comes home.
-COunseling is a requirement and he has agreed.... (we could pay but my budget is tight, and I am not buying insurance right now.. but I make enough dollars that it would cost me top price to pay for the appt.... ???/ so it is hard to go to counseling right now.. but we are trying to find a way...)
-Church commitment and involvement... now his involvment does not have to be a lot, but mine already is at least 1-2 times a week and very active with prayer, etc.
- Real showing of want for reconciliation by h. He seems to show this at times.. now.. it is the on / off that kills me.. but it hasn't been enough want, period.
- Forgivenss of my wrongs by ws. - these are what he hold s over my head as the whole reason why. I want my sins forgiven by him , just as Christ has done for me already ...and him and everyone...
- Adressing the drinking issues and the problems it causes if he comes home... He addresses it, but thinks aa is full of bums... well, gee look ws, you are getting there? He will never admit this. The man is very well spoken and from a good background, socially, financially.. he just doesn't see himself in AA???? I want some addressing of it, but I know I won't require him to stop to return home... because yes, I am afraid that this demand would end our marriage and .... I want it to be his decision.. and not ordered by me.
Gotta go, still thinking and definitely thinking of you.

Dont know why some posters are so intent on telling me their way is the right way, while I plan a... I guess my moanings and groanings at his mistreatment of me.. do get old.. but part of it is me and my lb's .. like whining about money, him coming home, etc.

I do want a traditional marriage, but consider myself independent.. it is just being a MOM is not an easy job.. without a dad around.???? I feel like part of all of this would be so different if we had no children... although the children of course need a good role model.

Anyway, gotta go... I'm late, but bet he is having fun... it was a girl's party.. and when he was dropped off I heard the girl's saying - OH it's OS, a boy!!! AAnyway.. gotta go.

Hugs and thanks for your caring.

I aappreciate everyone's advice to me, just some of it was attacking me and that hurt. I am not perfect and I am tyring... I certainly don't do everything right, but I am doing way better than this time last year, and it keeps getting better.

thanks, H

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-No porn would be a given if he comes home.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No Porn. Good boundary. How can he prove this to you? What do you need to see him do? (you know, the "actions"?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-No ow's at this point in order to try to move forward towards recovery... there is no ow right now.. - if I find out about one, there will be nc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I assume you mean that no OW's is your boundary. Period. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If an OW appears, what are your plans for NC? Are you meaning plan B?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-Working on the marriage is a boundary if he comes home.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should have a list compiled, outlining the SPECIFICS of what you need from him. Do you feel that he needs to do the dishes 3 times a week? Then write it down. Do you feel he needs to spend more time with the boys doing "x". Then write it down. The details of what will exactly be agreed upon will come out in a POJA with your H. Remember, some things are POJA worthy. Those that are far more important to you, are your boundaries.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-COunseling is a requirement and he has agreed.... (we could pay but my budget is tight, and I am not buying insurance right now.. but I make enough dollars that it would cost me top price to pay for the appt.... ???/ so it is hard to go to counseling right now.. but we are trying to find a way...)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally understand the money situation. We don't have any for counselling either. What kind of counselling? Does this need to take place before or after he moves back home? Or is this even something to do in order to prepare for the idea of him coming home? It's your decision.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-Church commitment and involvement... now his involvment does not have to be a lot, but mine already is at least 1-2 times a week and very active with prayer, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cannot force religion on him. That is a very personal choice Honey. I'm not sure where he is on his religious thinking of course, but I wouldn't advise that you push this one as a boundary. IMO, just like seeking help at AA, attending church is very similar. You need to want it from within, for it to work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Real showing of want for reconciliation by h. He seems to show this at times.. now.. it is the on / off that kills me.. but it hasn't been enough want, period.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again.... make a list of the ACTIONS you need to see of your H. What, to you, constitutes "real showing of want for reconciliation". Puppy dog eyes, and smooth words can't cut it. IMO, the 'real showing' will come by your H following your boundaries.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Forgivenss of my wrongs by ws. - these are what he hold s over my head as the whole reason why. I want my sins forgiven by him , just as Christ has done for me already ...and him and everyone...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, IMO, you can ASK forgiveness from your H, but you can't make him do so. I think that the person who needs to forgive you is you. And you can do that by being the best you you can be, and not letting those nasty past truths (according to Jim) be present ones. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Adressing the drinking issues and the problems it causes if he comes home... He addresses it, but thinks aa is full of bums... well, gee look ws, you are getting there? He will never admit this. The man is very well spoken and from a good background, socially, financially.. he just doesn't see himself in AA???? I want some addressing of it, but I know I won't require him to stop to return home... because yes, I am afraid that this demand would end our marriage and .... I want it to be his decision.. and not ordered by me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You say that you will NOT require your H to stop drinking if he were to come home. This is the key issue here, IMO. And I think this is the precise area that causes the most confusion amongst those of us who have been following your posts. If you are willing to settle for him w/ the continued drinking, then you have to expect that not much may change in the long run. Yes, things could look and seem grand on the surface, but the underlying issues will always remain there. If you are truly willing to accept this, then that is your choice. I too, am having doubts about going through with the tough love approach with my H, but in my situation, I cannot bear the pain his SA is bringing to our R. For the sake of my boys (and my own sanity too), I'm like MAW, and I have to remove myself from his negative ways. Are you sure you want back into THAT aspect of your M Honey? Are you really sure? If you are, then we are all still here for you, and will help you meet your goal of getting your H home again. (((((((((Honey))))))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gotta go, still thinking and definitely thinking of you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ditto. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly don't do everything right, but I am doing way better than this time last year, and it keeps getting better.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the things I've learned so far in this marital journey (online), is that it's the progression of improvement that does matter. Good for you Honey! Progress within is key!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Honey and Topie - you know I didn't mean to come off as a b*tch in the last thread and I don't want anyone to get a divorce if they don't want to - I actually like I said never even wanted one but the point I was trying to make to Honey was - I have to well adjusted independent wonderful girls ages 9 and 12 soon to be 10 and 13 and they are fun - they have great personalities - when I found out about my husbands affair (he told me) and I fell apart - I mean I went from this normal person to this total basket case - that cried at the drop of a hat - I am talking like total devastation - well my husband started drinking all of the time - so he would come home drunk everyday because he couldn't deal with what he did to me and how I fell apart and I couldn't deal with the fact that he betrayed me - so my girls were seeing everyday - two people who never even used to fight - go to a drunk and a person who was miserable - they went from being independent happy children - to sitting on the couch with me - asking me why my eyes were watery - they basically became my mother - and you know I decided that they didn't deserve that - their father had done a bad thing - he was continuing to not be able to accept what he did to me - he wanted out - he wanted to run away - and so instead of fighting and begging - (which I still do sometimes) and making my girls lives miserable - I let him go - it has and is the hardest thing I have ever done - but my girls know they can depend on me - My 12 year old told me you know mom you won't be crazy forever - and my youngest told me she knows how I feel because she got dumped also - so they don't know all of the facts but they know something went really wrong - they know Daddy hurt Mommy - but they also know that I am trying my best to make their life normal and bearable for them - it isn't about me - it is about them - I am afraid everyday - what if I never love anyone again - what if I am alone forever - but then I think I am going to have to well adjusted girls that respect their mom if it is the only thing I do right in life - Do you understand????

MAW: You don't have to explain yourself to me again. I totally understand the choice you made for yourself and your daughters. You are a VERY brave woman. The route you chose to follow is the hardest way at first, but IMO, the best way in the long run.

And now, I can relate to your decision making reasons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I too, love my husband very much. I don't want to separate from him again. But I know that I must. The only way I would stop the proceedings would be if he had one of those 'lightbulb moments' or something, that let him see that yes, his actions (viewing porn) are wrong, and then, for him to follow through with some treatment. I don't know what is going to happen. But I'm still preparing for the worst (which in my mind, is separation followed by D).

Karen

Hi Honey! Read your boundaries and, with the exception of the one re: no OW or you will go to nc, all of your boundaries focus on "if" of "when" Jim comes home. Great Start! Now, what boundaries do you have for the way he treats you now? It just pains me to read ~ he is like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.

Warmest Thoughts,

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-1 year old
Status: One Day At A Time.

Maw 64, I see the pt... clearly, have for quite some time. YOu say you red my threads to be gald you aren't trying to make it work.. well there are lots of others... here you can read to sdee that.

I am sure you are a nice person, but frankly I see you arguing daily with my points , my work to save my marriage and here on this thread exalting the virtues of divorce.

I am not sure you are strong of faith, but I am not saying D is wrong for you.. or even for me one day.. NOT NOW.

NOW, kindly will you quit posting this stuff to me? I am a bit tired of it, and I am sure you mean well, but you won't convince me to d right now.. glad you are happy with the D for you.

I am sure evenutally your children will have future issues being children of divorce, this is one things I hope is not too bad... I am trying to avoid this legacy for me and my kids...

I did cry one day this month in front of one child for a tear or two... but I am not the basket case you describe.... yourself as being before a D.

I bet you can find a lot of folks in agreement with you on the divorcing section of the board.. I do think that is what most do when they d... go over there.. that is the topic.

I am in PLAN A... I vented some here,,, - and I am tired of the same ole divorce is great , move on story from you- I am sure you mean well... but you really should not try to keep banging this in my head.

Thanks, H

Now a thank you:

Topie, I appreciate that I need to get more specific and realistic and .... I really appreciate all your responses.

Yes - we had little details become issues before the A... like who does what around the house, etc...

Also, you are prob. right abuot church... strangely my h has a commitment to God, not sure he has a relationship, but he is a believer,... although not a regular attendee... with my lead he usually comes to. I will not requie church, just request- this is of my thinking that the major spiritual awakening would really be the only way for our marriage to be healed.. on both our parts.. we need to spiritaully awaken and turn to God first as our guide.

Topie, I very very much struggle with the demand for sobriety from him.. I tried it, I failed... Alanon teaches me not to demand sobriety- and I am not now. I know I can't do this... but I can pray for it. I too know without sobriety he may relapse and go crazy some more.

I AM GOING TO A FTF alanon this am.

THanks for the support.

Brit's Brat,

Thanks for your support too, I do see that these were all IF... statements...

For now, I do have a few boundaries.. one being not accepting rude, cussing or yelling behavior... have started a hang up routine where I say... I have to go and cannot be talked to that way... It is workiing on the phone! In person I leave if i am the one able to.... which is usually the c ase.. although I don't see him a whole lot and we do avoid marital discussion in front of our kids.a.. and that is when I see him lately.

I know, this is all such bunk and I am tired of trying....

I may end up with a D.. Maw - who knows? But I pray not, I am hoping for the opprotunity to have a happy marriage with my husbzand.

I am going to work on a boundaries list in a journal... I know I need more.

Thanks and hugs, HONEY

honey what is your mba in?

Dear Sweet, Strong Maw.....

If you're reading this then you have probably read that awful attack on you too--I'm so sorry. I'm posting to you to tell you that I do NOT agree with these judgments about you.

I realize that you already know to "consider the source" when reading or replying to posts on this forum, but (in my opinion) this attack was so outrageous, unwarranted, and based on twisted truths that I felt compelled to express my disagreement with it and to tell you that I'm very sorry that you had to read something this awful.

Thank you - yet again - You know Honey - you like don't even listen - I do not believe in divorce - and I never have - I am catholic - there is not a divorce in my family ever - but I would take divorce anyday to live my life like yours - You say that my kids are going to be affected - well I think you ought to look at your own - my children are very well adjusted - I will not post to you again - because well you don't listen to anyone anyways - you can love in christlike - you can plan A away - but I basically believe you deserve better - but hey that is again my opinion - I wish you luck - because you are going to need it... And you know you talk about bashing - you look at what you are writing to everyone....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> - Adressing the drinking issues and the problems it causes if he comes home... He addresses it, but thinks aa is full of bums... well, gee look ws, you are getting there? He will never admit this. The man is very well spoken and from a good background, socially, financially.. he just doesn't see himself in AA???? I want some addressing of it, but I know I won't require him to stop to return home... because yes, I am afraid that this demand would end our marriage and .... I want it to be his decision.. and not ordered by me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey, All I ask is for you to think about what you have just posted. Maybe you already have. If so, ignore me.

You can pretty well throw your other boundaries out the window until he is sober. People with an alcohol problem are not rational, nor capable of making honest decisions.

I am afraid, Honey, until the drinking is addressed, it will always be an excuse to "cross" the other boundaries. I hope that you, also, won't excuse him because of the drinking. Your mind may try to "excuse" him with thoughts of "well...he was drinking...he didn't mean it."

If so, its only going to be a vicious circle. He crosses your boundary, you excuse him because of his drinking problem, and then on, and on, and on.

The ONLY way to even begin to address any other problems is with a "meeting of the minds". But..the minds need to be "clear". In other words, free from the alcohol.

You said that with his background, he just "can't see himself in AA." He's gonna have to swallow that pride. You can't make him swallow it. He hasn't yet because he doesn't feel he needs to. His drinking can cover any LB'er you throw at him. Us sober people hate arguments and high tempers. Drunk people thrive on them.

One question, Honey, and then I will shut up....

What has HE lost that he doesn't want to lose because of being the way he is? Remember, Honey, if there's no consequences to his actions, there is no motivation to change. Just think about this for me, OK?

Boo

Well, I must admit, after all the comments ...

thanks hc- to think about not plan aing... at least that is what I get from you.. it is hard not to think about it.

This am I am suppossed to again go over to h's church.. he did not come last wk and meet him there ... he has the boys , he has had them since yestrday and my thinking prob. is that if I go to church they will come home with me.

It is diff. to know if I am too kind.

I am drawing back as some of you may not see or think.

I had all day yesterday with friends and dinner with friends... it was nice not to be told anything mean, etc.

So sick of being "blamed".

So sick of him not looking at his side of the street.

Starting to think as some of you say, maybe he is one of those lost causes...

Alanon helps, and it is a good support group with people who understand loving an alcoholic.. I will be spending more of my time venting in those circles.... few others can truly understand or have the tools to deal with an active alcoholic.

Hugs and thanks for the thoughts...

I am not stubbornly saying I will never end my attempt to save this marriage... but I really don't think my plan a was ever great, so that is why before i give up... I want some true peaceful efforts with no lb's back. It is hard not to lb a person who is deliberately mean... even if it is out of his own hurt.... etc.

I know him , as so many of you don't... I post here about his terror... and then caring people say RUN FOR THE HILLS...

Well I understand, but he has a good side if only he could see his drinking problem. I have still chosen to love him better and the best I can for a time before giving up.

There has been recent improvement, yet sometimes more distance... for me, I have gained more distance.

Hugs and thanks, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You are certainly sounding more at peace right now Honey. I think that the distance you've created this weekend, in a PHYSICAL sense, has really helped you.

I'm finding the same thing with myself this weekend. My H has taken off to work on his Home Based Business Plan, and left me alone with the kids (but I shipped the 3 1/2 yr old to grampa's house next door! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). I thought that I would be miserable with H gone. But I'm not! I am so calm within myself that it's actually scaring me!

I've been so used to the constant 'walking on eggshells' feelings, and my guard has been up all along too, b/c of my lack of trust towards my H. But somehow, I have let it all go. At least for this weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Do you think that maybe this could be happening to you too?

We all have to live through our situations before we can get over them. And I think that you are starting to see that, deeply, from within. I know you've said it on here many times before... but today is when I can really sense it from you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know you didn't ask for an opinion on this, but I'm going to give one anyways! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think that you should go to your own church this a.m. Let your H deal with the boys, and let him decide what he's going to do with them today. You should take care of YOU. And not worry about your H's visitation time with the boys.

Karen

Topie, Thanks for the post.. YES it is peaceful to have a quiet house.. and he does upset me and put me on nerve's end.

I got Lor's copy of the rules this am.. just opened my mail... brought it in yesterday... and I love it.

I cannot be so available to him to make this work out and I do have to go back to the old me who was looking good, feeling good and taking care of me to win him back.. then he will come back PURSUING me and wanting me.

I do feel alot like saying no to church, but since I already agreed and that was one thing I thought could really help us... I think I will go.... but I am not asking him about it again.. in the weeks that come if he asks me then ok... no more invites from me.

THE RULES... may not be mb... but for me and my life.. they are even more of a 180.

I feel I have to keep being kind to him... but not so available , needy , or wanting of reconciliation...

I have stopped sending cards, etc. notes, because I felt unappreciated, though I would find them on his windowsill, it has been way over a mnth since he received an I miss you card... we have not spent the night together for quit some time, and honestly the last time we did... it was not romantic , we slept.

I am feeling like that won't happen again unless he does more strong pursuit and proof of who he is to me... and what he is doing for me.... to prove himself.

He STRONGLY pursued me to get me to marry him... I was unsure of him, and he proved himself ... I think that is the type of man he is... and unfortunately.... living in this house will still be an issue.... but we can work that kink out if IF we ever get there.

I do see what you mean TOPIE... it just gets OLD, and you get tired of trying when they are not.. and we are beautiful and wonderful creatures like no other aren't we.... ??/ GOt that from the RULEs... do you have the book???/ TOPIE... I love the first few chapters I just read.

Also after church it will NOT be me saying OK< do we do lunch???/ It will be me saying, Ok gotta go... want to bring the kids home this evening..? Truthfully I have STUFF to do, that involves taking care of me ME>>>> I said.

One of my friends sd, let him have nthe kids more and he might come running home.. hehe.. he might... that is one REASON I have been nuts... a 4 yr old and a 10 yr old raising them alone.. and having to get help from my family. .. thank goodness, but I am typically VERY independent.. and feeling rejected and heartbroken all at the same time..??? Oh well, I am tired of the poor me's, I do feel stronger and thanks to all of you.

Hope your day is wonderful TOPIE.

Hugs, HONEY

Hi Honey ~

I for one think you ought to stay in Plan A, with boundaries. Not for HIS sake, but for yours. I think there are things you still need to work out for yourself that you won't learn if you go to Plan B or D, or whatever.

Learning how to love my husband AND love and respect myself at the same time is a lesson that I will be forever grateful for.

Keep working on the boundaries, I am sure the "rules" that Lor sent you will be helpful.

Thanks BR- I have done so many unkind and reactionary things to my once loving husband.. and I feel so much guilt over it, I owe me and him a good plan a. I love this man, and have known him since age 16- I am 34... he was my first love.. which I know makes it even harder.

I am very tired of his smirkiness and angry attitude toward me. I have to plan a, but not so eagerly - I have been wearing my heart on my sleeve and telling him how i FEELLLLll- like men love that,,.. and wanting to TALKKKKK about it.. now that is not plan a anyway.

I am getting better, and he keeps telling me... latest email... "when you get better, I will be more eagar to come home"

I look around, my depression shows in my weight gain, my messy house and my sad demeanor.... I used to be a happy, perky, busy , fun person- now not that 2 kids doesn't weight you down, but I want ME back.

Today, church plans were cancelled, hate to say he did it again.. but I won't be asking every week or eagarly driving 30 min. to "his" church that he hardly even goes to anyway...

I am glad not to go with him, as I want to try out the RULES- he sd he needs some sleep the kids have had him up since 6am... (well they do wear one out)...

I sd- OK, no prob.- I have a million things to do, talk to you later... bye. and got off the phone first... now that is the old me... everyone complained I would just jump off the phone.... Well I had so much to do, I didn't want to linger....

Today I plan to do some home improvement, some home depot stuff that has been needing to be done... replacing a light, painting the bathroom (hope I can muster that one.. but think I can)- and I ha ve a little seweing for me and organization of my home disaster.. too many clothes, too much paper...

So- I am fine, and he can call me when he is ready to bring back our sweet kiddies, and they an drive him nuts all day! HEHE. -In the new one bedroom place he has....

Sorry I guess I am being a little vengeful with those comments.

MAW- if you read again... I am not trying at all to attack you or anything... just trying to tell you I am not ready for a D.. not saying you wanted one, but your attitude again and again to me is I deserve better move on, and that is not my stance.. my stance is plan a with some distance and move on... maybe a bit more distance after all the head banging this week, but still plan a the best I can... no lb's to him and slightly interested if he pursues... guess I am more attuned the pursuit now that I got the rules book, it reminded me!

THanks and hugs, H

Hello Honey -

I am a recovering alcoholic with about 13 mos of sobriety. Therefore my memories of bad behavior are still fresh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ..........

It is not my place to offer advice to you. However, I will offer to you my experiences and feelings during the time when I was drinking heavily and blaming my W for 'all that was bad in my life'.

If you think it would help you understand what your husband is feeling, then I will be around to help.....

I also thought AA was for the bums...Now I know that we alcoholics are very similar animals. Money is not the issue. Character is......

Let me know if I can help.

Gib

<small>[ November 03, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Gibby1 ]</small>

Wow Gibby!

You're so right. In fact when I was studying intensly the whole concept of AA/Al-anon; I attended many open AA meetings to help me with perspective.

I was astonished to see how many "movers & shakers" were guest speakers at the city-wide meetings. Inspiring to say the least! Congratulations on your sobriety! CSue

Thanks Gibby,

Any advice?

I will gladly take it from a recovered alcoholic. I appreciate your post and support. It is very very hard. I love my h, and he used to be different.. his drinking has gotten very very progressively worse. I still believe in him and that he can be the man I love.

I don't want to be walked on, but want him to know I love him.

I have been thinking about "the rules" today and wondering how hard to get... or aloof a seperated wife should be.. it is a bit different than just dating...

Lor, if you read this, how aloof were you? Did it work? The Rules reminds me of the 180 approach, busy, happy, upbeat, nonchalant, no R talk.

Today he called 2x and I did not answer... he has kids, I just called to see when they are coming home, we did not have a set time... I have kept myself busy today.. got my hair done, did some housework and am doing some sewing- it keep me busy and my mind from having time to get all emotional and feeling sorry for poor me...

I like being busy.

Thanks for being here all of you. Any of you that were angered at me, I apologize. I apologize for any argument back for my stance or against yours... I have had a painful week and some of what was written here really stung.

Thanks - H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />