Ba109
Do you have any knowledge of laws? She already had it going on before we separated. I left. Look at first couple posts on thread.

NO MATTER WHO GETS ONE (easy to get and I did not contest because she would have gotten one anyway and I didn't want to disrespect her in OPEN COURT) I thought this would be the first step to healing process. I did it FOR HER! It doesn't matter who gets one. THE PETITIONER VIOLATES IT if they do anything on it either. I COULD have her arrested now. Would I?NO

RO's go both ways because it is not designed for one person to hide behind and use it when they see fit.

AA,
I am going to agree with everyone else here. The things you keep saying and posting are getting scary. I know of the emotional rollercoaster ride you are on. BUT you posted that the RO was in placed to protect her emotional well being. I'm sorry but I can see why. EVERYONE here has told you to stop doing and thinking you can shower her with gifts and talk your way back. IT WILL NOT WORK. If it did, then you would be right back here in less than 3 months. Because, neither of you have learned anything from this except hurt. You haven't learned patience or have even attempted to learn more about your Wife and why this happened. All I have heard from you is she is thinking this way or she is thinking that way. Or I will do this and she will do that. Desperation is not something you learn. Unconditional love ad respect are things you can learn and will help you in trying to save your marriage. If they don't you will be a better person for your next relationship. I know you don't want to hear about anyone else and I'm not trying to say this is over. But, I'm telling you, for the love of god, PLEASE back off. I think relate hit the nail on the head. Do other things. I know it is hard, but what choice are you leaving your Wife. Do you want to be with someone who will come running to you because of what you said and the things you bought her? I don't think so. You want her to come back because she SEES the changes in you. Not because you told her about them.
I'm really starting to feel you don't want to make changes. You just want to tell her you changed. How will you ever prove it? I understand you feel if you don't see her or talk to her it won't change. That is the situation at the moment. You have to deal with it. Actions speaking louder than words, has never be more true than in this case.
I am truly sorry you are going through this. I have never replied in a negative way to anyone. But I started writing this post to tell you I have given up on you. But, that would be me not giving to you unconditionally. I sincerely care about you, even though we have never met.
We are all just trying to help. Please choose the path you take wisely.

HW

U R welcome Alan. I think a lot other posters miss the point that this "clubbing" is two weeks away, many thing could happen. Heck, best scenario is "RO is dropped and W wants you to be there" to worst scenario that W doesn't call you and NC at all. I know you idle alot, you need to take a break from W and start replying to others ... it helps. I know you like to plan ahead and plan well, I do too ... but in this 'coaster you have to take it moment by moment ... you never know when the next twist & turn will come.

Did you put another card since we talk ?.

-RH-

AA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now what if I buy flowers and have them waiting for her there and have a little card from an admirer. Then what if I happen to show up later after the flowers, some drinks and relaxation. Show up, sit somewhere they can't see me and have barkeep take them some drinks for two beautiful women....don't approach unless she approaches me! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a plot to violate the RO. What else could this be?

The RO is supposed to protect her from you...not protect you from her. She had to cite specific incidences of threatening behavior by YOU. She was granted the RO in order to protect her from YOU.

You don't consider yourself to be a threat to her yet you are plotting to violate the RO in very deceitful way. You are setting the table for her to be waylaid by you. This is a direct and intentional violation of the RO.

If she is indeed calling you, that by no means gives you the right to intentionally violate the order.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bad Idea? What do you think? Cheesy? Give me your ideas on any different ideas. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's an idea....RESTRAIN YOURSELF!

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

AA, I know how badly you are hurting and how desperately you want your wife back, but what you are doing is bordering on obsessive. If I were in your wife's shoes (affair or not) all of your "kind gestures" would be driving me crazy.

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-1 year old

<small>[ November 04, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

BA109,
That is why I'm here. I asked a question. I thought it was a bad idea, but just wanted opinions, not to be scolded for caring about my family! I don't get to see my daughter everyday like I used to. I do not get to look in my wifes dazzling hazel eyes <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I do not get to go out with her <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I do not get to cook them dinner <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I get my D (3yrs old) 4 days a month now <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I got to hear my D say "dady don't want me" in the car and she got to see dad start crying <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I get to hear her on the phone crying and asking me when I'm coming home (W hears that too) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ba109:
Have you read early posts so you understand. You cannot violate RO even being the person that gets it.

FROM BA:If she is indeed calling you, that by no means gives you the right to intentionally violate the order.

Does this sound right? So it's ok for her and she wants to talk to me (because I'm dangerous) but I should hang up on her. WRONG Don't insult my intelligence! "If she is calling you"

The reason I first posted this question is because I didn't like the idea, but wanted some confirmation so I didn't do something stupid. It is STILL 2 weeks away and things could change and then I'll re-evaluate.

I know I really shouldn't even respond to your comments, because clearly you don't understand us or our situation over a few posts.

And if you READ other posts you can see why she asked for one......the motivation.....alot of lawyers want spouse to get one!Why? Very logical think about it. My wife KNOWS she shouldn't be violating or I could send her to jail, but she does anyway, Why? Could she be missing me a little? Feeling guilty? I could tell during conversations that she is reaching a little. We have not had one argument on phone. We have had great talks so it gives me hope and that's what I need right now is hope. I just pray to God that she will take a little baby step and give me the chance to try and bring our marriage back from the brink.

<small>[ November 02, 2002, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AlanArthur:
THE PETITIONER VIOLATES IT if they do anything on it either. I COULD have her arrested now. Would I?No</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to antagonize. I think the point that most everyone is trying to make is that it doesn't matter whether your wife violates it because (1) you cannot control what she does; and (2) you can, however, control what you do. In light of point #1, if you violate it she CAN use it against you in any number of ways: legally, emotionally or she can -- like you -- do nothing. I, personally, don't like the odds. If you and your wife are on better speaking terms, why not negotiate with her to expedite its lifting (if that's possible)?

The second thing that people are trying to stress is that such overt attempts to win your wife back typically don't work. Pointing out how great you are isn't as powerful as them seeing it for themselves. Besides, it can't hurt to lay low.

I wish you the best of luck.

AA,

I think you are trying to justify your intent to violate the RO simply because she has placed a few calls to you.

You are required to abide by the RO, regardless of whether she calls you or not. Until the court "throws it out" it is what it is....a RO.

When you say that your Atty can have the RO thrown out of court, it gives me the impression that this will not be a mutual request by you and your W, but rather a manipulated undertaking.

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ba109,
What I am saying and your not getting is........If she calls me (over 1 dozen times last week alone) and I stay on phone and don't hang up then I am violating order. If she calls me...do I hang up on her? Or do I talk to her and open communication? You can't have it both ways! Get it?

Also, I can get it thrown out at this point, because of all the contact. Do I? I don't know. I see your point and that is what I'm struggling against. This puts me in a weird position. Damned if I do damned if I don't. I don't like the idea I can go to jail if she gets mad, but I don't do anything if she violates. Do you know HOW MANY people Bait the other person to violate and then have them arrested? This is not to be used whenever they feel like it.

I guess i don't know why I'm trying to explain this to you...you won't ever understand unless you knew more about relationship.past, present and legal system.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If she calls me...do I hang up on her? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AA

Yes. If she wants to talk to you or you to her, then talk through your attorneys until the RO has been mutually rescinded.

Don't hide behind "you don't understand" comments and just do what is right.

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ November 02, 2002, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

That's your opinion and you are wrong. Not when it is vital to open communication. Divorce will be final at end of December and the first 6 weeks there was nothing.

If you were in this situation you could do what you THINK is right and I will do what I KNOW is right. She needs to know I am here for her whenever she needs me. She feel I was closed off to her for last year. I need to show her that I am opening to her and can treat her right. You don't accomplish this through lawyers and hanging up on her (proving to her I haven't changed) she WILL bea able to tell during conversations. Don't you think this is why she is calling me? She is starting to hear a difference and may want to investigate further by calling again? Hanging up will just conclude I haven't changed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Boy you are the mature one, huh?

Dear AA,

I've not read all the responses, but I do agree with those I have read. Don't contact your wife in any way, shape or form.

In a number of posts you have stated that she has asked for you to give her some space. Think about what she is telling you. She hasn't come out directly and said "stop." She is saying it indirectly.

You want to give her gifts, tokens of your love. She is being very specific in the ONE thing she wants -space. Give her that gift. Don't return her calls, but do speak with her if she calls. Stop making plans for material gifts and give her the opportunity to experience what "space" feels like.

I'm not trying to be harsh, just trying to point out that she has told you what she wants...yet, you have ignored it. I know it's difficult when you want her back. But, you have to give her the chance to want that, too. You have to give the gift of space and freedom to think without you subtly inserting yourself into that space.

Just because she violates the RO does not justify you doing it. She's trying to feel in control (which is not always a bad thing) -not trying to control you, per se, just trying to feel in control.

Best wishes~

Thank you. Very well put. I know she needs this space. Some idiot inside me keeps saying to pursue! It is getting better though. It seems lately that the left side of my brain is working overtime. LOL

I still think (others and counselors agree) that I should purchase little gift type items (nothing fancy or costly/personal) to put in daughters bag when she visits, I startded doing this Plan A'ing a few weeks ago and brought her around a little. I never did much of this before and I think she may see it as little changes. If I bought expensive things or paid all her bills she would see that more geared towards manipulation. I think she appreciates little gifts and cards. As long as I'm not calling or attempting to see her in person. I do realize she wants to be in control, think about things, and realize she can make it on her own. I just really miss coming home to them. I hate being single and alone!!!
Anyway, I know little gifts must be consistant and long term or she will feel it wasn't real. I just want her to know I care and am here for her (in the shadow) NO NOT STALKING! Gary Smalleys book recommends giving money (helping with bills) going above and beyond what the court orders. I have done that and guess what? Money never got returned <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and I felt good for helping. In fact she has never refused gifts or returned them. In fact her friend told me she appreciated the cash! (who doesn't) and I know I have to expect nothing in return. (hard part) I know plan A is exhausting. My W is a giver. She gave gave gave and I was selfish and stubborn and did nothing to work on marriage. So now hopefully she can see me as a giver.

I will not hang up on her. Your right, I will not RETURN her calls. Sometimes if she calls my work I will tell them I am unavailable instead of eagerly talking to her.

I am better because I don't think much about what she is doing at night. It was bad initially. Especially, when I knew she was on dating sites looking to meet other men. She even told me she had a date and what happened. WEIRD.....but old Alan would have became upset. I was upbeat and caring. I did not LB. In fact I turned it into humor and she was laughing. She said she was lonely and I said I understood and that I was here for her. She knows I care. She still said last conversation and to priest "how come 4 months ago when I told you we needed counseling you didn't schedule the appointment. It must not have meant anything the. Why now?"

This comment told me a little, just like most of our recent conversations. She has brought up all her needs to me without me asking . We didn't communicate, raising child (hard work), not doing things together, housework, finances, felt like you didn't want me around, felt like you didn't love me.....and more. Of course I told her that yes these were problems. I even pointed out more of her needs and specifically told her how I would meet them if given a chance. She said she has given me many chances this last 1 1/2 years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ November 03, 2002, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

Alan - I have read your original post as well as all the replies. My understanding is that your wife got a RO against you, but you don't feel she felt actually threatened and only did this at the advice of her lawyer?

My feeling is that while she may not have felt physically threatened, she was probably feeling emotionally threatened. I agree with the previous poster Salome that your wife needs some breathing space. The old saying that "if you let something go and it returns it's yours, but if it doesn't it never was" is very applicable in this case I think. You've backed off and are evidently supposed to be giving her this space and she is feeling good about it and is having the time to be apart from you and maybe she's even missing you a bit and that's why she's calling. That's good.

I definitely think you should consider continuing to give her the time she needs. I'd probably talk to her if she calls, but I wouldn't suggest calling or contacting her in any way. I think the financial support is great, as long as it's done with no strings attached. Help support her financially because you love her and your daughter and want them to be cared for, not because you are hoping it will convince her you have changed and will come back to you.

I don't know you or your wife personally and therefore, am left with the small amount of information I read in your responses. What I wonder when I read your posts is have you really changed or are you doing these things for your wife for the sole purpose of getting her back? I wonder if you truly understand yet what you did wrong in your relationship with your wife that caused her to leave you and file the RO?

Since she's calling you, take the time to listen to her and find out what she really thinks and believes. What most wives want from their husbands is to be listened to and heard. Gifts are easily purchased and require little time and effort. They are an attempt at a quick fix.

Give your wife the gift of time and patience. The harder you try to win her back, the more she is going to resist. By working so hard to win your wife back, I feel you are placing selfish demands on her because you are thinking of what is in your best interest and not what your wife wants. What does your wife want? Ask her.

Alan,

Leave the RO alone ... it is a test to see if she is droping it beside there is more chances you are LB'ed. She will drop it when she is ready. Do nothing on this one, if she ask let her know that you respect her decision and she should drop it when she is ready.

Tell your priest .. Duh!!! ... in plan A, we expect nothing from WS. This is the hardest part of plan A, keep your taker in checked.

Write a little note make it a bit personnal and drop it w/ your D's bag. You have done a good job w/ helping her financially, it is one of her top EN and she let you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . You have a good conversation w/ her ... and if conversation is her top EN too, she will call you again.

Just relax a bit ... the old Alan is showing up here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , everyone means well for you. I would jump on you the same way everyone does if I have not spoken to you. You think too much !, it is a few weeks away. Remember, I would send 2x4 if there is no change in situation and you want to go to the club like that. Let her invite you or don't go at all. She told you she need her space, give it to her or it is an LB. You have done a great job so far, you have plan the seed and you saw the impact. Just sit back and keep doing what you have done so far ... let time help you out now. (PTC).

-RH-

Thank you. Well put. Finally. Yes, that is what my counselor said. She feels W got RO for emotional safety. I agree. Now she is calling me. I will not call her, but I will talk, because if I don't she will say "there is the REAL Alan!"

Your right. I have been working on self. Sometimes for me sometimes for getting her back. I do notice big changes in my attitude. I am more caring and understanding and others have said so. I had so much anger this last year..stress and I took it out on her. We moved back to podunk Iowa 4 years ago and I helped her start her business. Following year (unplanned daughter), both working hard to survive. 2000, brother and I build restaurant from ground up, never being in business before. I worked 18 hour days....never saw each other (with young d). So stressful and I started to drink and it got worse. This last 2 years her business went through the roof.....her hard work was paying off, but we were growing distant......never doing anything together......not showing appreciation.

In Omaha (she hates it here, which doesn't help) we loved it and got along great working reg. jobs making great money. Then we get into business for ourselves...joy....joy....joy. Don't own a restaurant if you want to be married!

Anyway, I have been focusing on her needs(things she has said in the past) I did tell her what I could do to meet them. I even said we could move back to Omaha. I will get out of rest. business to save marriage as she is more important than money!

I told her our problem was simple....we put jobs and $$$$ ahead of each other, family, and Christ! I totally agree with that too.

I wish God would let everyone have one RE-DO in life. I'd be using mine now. Sometimes I wake up hoping it was just a bad nightmare......but it is reality and I can't change it now. It is up to her and God. I must just keep using Plan A, work on self and pray.

When she calls I do alot more listening now. She did tell me she could tell something was different about me. That made me feel great!!! She wants the old Alan back...the one that was nice, caring and compassionate. I told her once he was back he will never leave again, as I will have a plan and goals to make marriage work and a happy place for us to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />