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Joined: Nov 2001
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My wife(WS) spoke to Steve H. last friday because she thought she could tell Steve her side of the story. My wife just wrote me the email below and unless someones says their WS had the same reaction it seems to me like my marriage is going to end up as another divorce statistic.
How in the heck do I even respond to what she said? Personally I want to LB big time and just give her a piece of my mind and my pain. She is asking me to proceed in a divorce in an adult manner? No offence but what the crap is that? Adult manner? Does she forget what she has done and she is just walking away. I am so pissed off right now as well as very disappointed. I think there is that realization that you can't make the horse drink.
I don't know how to respond to this. I do but it would be a major LB.

Wife wrote:
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I spoke w/Steve Harley on Friday. I had a completely different impression of what he and I were going to be discussing vs. what he talked about. He is there to help save marriages and help make them work. I am sorry Neil, but I just talked to you a couple of weeks ago about this and I did tell you that I have made up my mind as to what I want my future to be. I thought that by me talking to Steve I would be able to give him my side of the story and that he would be able to better guide you towards accepting my decision, but he ended up doing the complete opposite. I am sorry to come across blunt and possibly cold, but I have shared my final decision with you and at this point I am just asking you if we can proceed with the whole process in an adult manner or if the entire process will turn into an ugly/expensive
mess.
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If you ask me this is already one big mess. If this is fog talk this seems to be a permanent fog.

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Her reaction is par for the course for WSs who are so sure about themselves - which is most of them most of the time. And yes, it's common for them to appeal for "adult" or civilized behavior all the while acting in the opposite manner. This is a revealing insight for many BSs - the WS's demonstration that they haven't considered their actions unjustified.

Vent here to us instead of responding to her message. In the meantime, protect your assets and consider retaining a lawyer. I suggest you let her make the first move toward divorce while you continue to offer reconciliation at every appropriate opportunity. If it all ends in divorce, you'll be able to live on guilt free.

Do you have a followup with Steve? Before you do anything, get his impression of the call.

WAT

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I totally agree with WAT, give Steve a call to get his feedback.

If he learned anything from her, he can share this with you. If there's a reason to be pessimistic, I doubt he'd sugar-coat it. If there's a reason to be optimistic, he'll give you pointers and possibly a pep-talk. He will undoubtedly check your energy-level and possibly start planning for Plan B - I don't know.

You say you tried Plan B a while ago... I wonder how "strict" you were in it. I know I did a terrible Plan B at first... and it did nothing but continue to enable WW.

I'm now in a pristine Plan B, and although yes, it has its risks, especially with no kids like SH has said before... it also has a purpose and a place - and that's to get you "better" and "over" your WW.

It's a funny thing, but there seems to be a hump that once you get over it, you can start looking at them and the whole situation in a new light... and it feels GOOD to be away from them and their fog... and you can think about maybe someone new in the future... and you realize that maybe divorce isn't such a bad idea... even though you still have some feelings for them, you understand that knowing you tried your hardest really DOES mean something - and will help you heal... the WS doesn't have this luxury... don't underestimate its value!

As a side-note, you might want to consider refreshing yourself on how to speak fog back to the WS by visiting some of Orchid's posts. One possible reply to her might be along the lines of, "I agree - we do need to act like adults." And just leave it at that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You're not LB'ing, just agreeing - about something you do believe in - acting mature and responsible. Leave it to her to join the dots, so to speak.

<small>[ November 04, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

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I guess I just kept getting my hopes up that much sooner then later that things would start to change. I am very upset, disappointed, angry, sad, hurt, pissed off, heart broken and everything else from reading her comment. It does make me sick to hear that come from her. I just wish I could bottle everything up inside me and just magically put that in my wife for say one minute. Let her feel what I am feeling.
I am going to schedule another session with Steve. Depending how long it takes me to get an appointment with him I might LB before hand with responding to my wife. I guess at this point it is so sad to say that I think it sounds like I am going to have to learn how to let go. I don't want to let go but a lot of what I have seen and hear is telling me that is the way it will be. The sad part for me is I can't look at myself in the mirror and tell myself it is all over.
The part I don't like is for about the past ten months I have sounded like such a complainer (baby) to my family and friends. This has affected me so much as a person that I forgot what it is truly like to be happy and be able to smile throughout the day without a bad thought going through my head.

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guy - letting go does not equate to your marriage being over. So when you look in the mirror, only look for positive changes you can make. A year from now - no matter what happens to your marriage - you'll look in the mirror and be proud of what you see.

DO NOT LB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the absolute worst thing you could do right now. Yep, it would make you feel better - for only a brief moment.

WAT

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confused_guy, I just have to tell ya that I completely know how you feel. I feel the same way right now.

My WW won't talk to Steve but if she did I'm sure she'd say the same. She practically is saying the same about going through with the divorce.

Over time you will feel better about yourself, life, laughs, fun, enjoying things. You will.

And one day you can look back at all the terrible times you went through, all the mix of emotions, and look at yourself in the mirror and say that you took the high road, you did everything you could to save your M, you did not LB despite the temptation, you have no more regrets or guilt, you can move on and heal.

at least that is what I'm hoping for if my WW doesn't magically come around by some miracle soon.

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aanast2....
With time maybe I will be able to look in the mirror and say I tried everything I could. Like anything in life you always remember what it was like in the very end and not how it was over all those years. So in the end what do I really get out of all of this? To me it wasn't worth becoming a better person but at the same time to be hurt like this. I want to be happy in life and want to be able to smile and not feel the pain in my heart. I can hold my head high but at the same time there is pain else where within me.
If things do end with my wife and myself I just can't see myself going back in the fire. I see how all of this has changed me as a person. There are a lot of positives that I have developed out of this but there are a lot of negatives. Negatives such as when I look at someone I don't know and I say, would that person hurt me. I have put up the barriers around me to protect myself. Here the closest person in the world to me burnt me bad why wouldn't anyone else. Love trully is pain. Either way this will end up it is going to take a long time to be able to see past the scars.

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Dear Confused_Guy,

I don't know if this helps or not...but my H has said the exact same thing to me...numerous times. He keeps telling me to act like an adult when dealing with this nightmare he created. I bet he has said that about 40 times at least...especially when he has made an a** of himself with either our financial situation or with the kids.

I don't know if he truely believes what he is saying...or that he has just made such a mess of our lives--that it is the only thing he can say. Actually in my exH's case, I think he has twisted everything around in his head and he believes all the crap he has said.

Act like an adult...he has ditched his family, his friends, financial obligations--but I am supposed to "put this behind me and act like and adult". Amazing...25 years of loving and supporting this man...and he has the nerve to tell me to act like an adult.

I am afraid I am ranting. Your post hit a nerve with me. I think WS s use this when they have created such a mess---and it is the only way they can feel good about themselves. How sad--just wanted to let you know...I understand the pain, hurt, anger and frustration.

I am a pretty non-violent person...but I can really see how that women ran over her husband numerous times down in Texas. Forgiveness is going to be so hard. And the worst part is--we are the ones that have to smile and "act like the adult" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by miserynmissouri:
<strong>Actually in my exH's case, I think he has twisted everything around in his head and he believes all the crap he has said.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">miserynmissouri has hit it square on the head. Over and over again on this forum I have read about the very same behavior. I witnessed it first hand with my WS. Proof - once again - that they all report to the same Mothership.

The human mind in denial can be an astonishing thing. This is why many of us here refer to them as alien abductees. Nothing else Earthly can explain their illogic.

They actually do not know how hypocritical they are being. They have performed some mental contortion that prevents self evaluation and introspection.

Figuratively speaking, they have painted over all the mirrors in their lives. They no longer have that built in check rational people have that usually prevents hypocrisy - that keeps one eye in the mirror.

Many here refer to this almost universal behavior as the "double standard" or simply "hypocrisy in the third degree."

As long as this behavior persists, the fog is present, the Mothership is in control, or "denial ain't just a river in Egypt."

The good news - as long as they do this, you know they are still totally and completely screwed up. As hard as it may be, do NOT take any of this personally. Step back and try to see some dark humor here. They can be incredibly funny - not thinking about what they're saying. This is exactly why it's soooooo easy for BSs to point out their hypocritical statements - they're not rational.

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Hey there CG

It seems alot of us are experiencing your pain too. If its possible, look ahead and get on with life, try not to have much if any contact, and hold onto hope that maybe one day you'll see a miracle happen. You'll be able to get by and the pain will lessen if you dont have high expectations of everything working out in your time. Whats a few months or years compared to a lifetime, of investing in working on you to become all God created you to be? Make the most of it. And I do know what it feels like and I am practising what I'm preaching. Hang in there. Ive heard of too many marriages ressurect from divorce to give up. Let go, but dont give up.

Cheese

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confused guy- I hear what you are saying about not wanting to go back in the fire. I've thought about that too. All these years (sort of an investment) together with love, and trust, and planning a future together, and then WHAM! all gone just like that. What the !!!!

It is a normal human reaction to not want to get burned again after touching the hot stove. However, over time the pain fades and we trust again.

You are right, anyone you look at could break your trust all over again. Hopefully, though, we learn from this whole ordeal about EN and Policy of Joint Agreement, communication, and not taking things for granted, so that we can make a M more affair proof.

Honestly, though, it is a risk. It is always a risk. Nothing is certain. An A could happen in anyone's M. It could happen again for any of us.

I hope not but there is a risk. Does that mean we should just crawl up into a ball, give up, and not try again.

I don't believe so. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. It may mean pain and misery and heartbreak and failure, but what is life without risk?

I'm not saying to be stupid. Stupidity is not learning from the mistakes we made. I'm just saying let's not give up completely.

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Confused,

Yes my H has told me the same numerous times. We are divorcing but I still have hope. I think even with all his CONFIDENCE in his choice he still doesn't really know what he wants.

Of course they have to TELL themselves that this is absolutely the RIGHT decision. Nothing else justifies the choices. Only time will tell if it is the right decision. One reason I think my H is so gung-ho on D is that he feels that once it is over his guilt will diminish. I think he has built the D up in his mind as the next step to happiness. Just like he built the A up as his step to happiness. Unfortunately I think he is just going to keep looking for the answer for why things aren't right in his life. Maybe sometime he will realize he made a mistake.

Don't feel like the feeling of not wanting or trusting someone will last. I was so much in that mind frame mere weeks ago, but it is already fading. It will pass in time, as you recover. Our personal recovery involves baby-steps too. You have to work out each obstacle in turn and sometimes they jump up again but eventually if you follow the good advice her and work on YOU, YOU WILL MAKE IT. I believe that with all my heart. You just have to believe.

Hugs

Sharon


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