Hey,
My mother had my daughter today. I went and visited her. I took a humorous missing you card.....put the child support check inside along with a gift certificate to her fav restaurant in Omaha. I wrote a little four line poem inside. Very sweet.

Mom took daughter to her and wife got out card while mother was still there. She told my mother "I told him not to give me any cards" My mother said I don't want involved. Mom said she wasn't mad. She was opening it when mom left.

Anyway, last Wed. when we talked she asked why I'm giving her cards?....She stated they really don't mean anything to her!...........that hurt........yet she still opens them and reads them.........this is only second card. She said they don't mean anything because they remind her of EA I had over a year ago........becuase I gave that woman a couple of cards. She also stated that the EA is no big deal anymore.....she doesn't care anymore. I think she is lying because she still brings it up almost every conversation. She wants to be or would like to be my wife, but the EA is am issue she can't or won't work on and get resolved.

Redhat, what do I do. Respect her wishes...no more cards? Or still continue doing what I am doing? She did state to daycare provider that Alan is paying for daycare now. Well I will, but I don't want to be used either. I pay child support and I really am not required to pay daycare. Should I pay 1/2 daycare?

Your thoughts......anyones thoughts.

<small>[ November 04, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

I will say it again..... You need to leave her alone. No cards, no calls , no gifts, no poems...

I know you dont want to believe this, but you are pushing her further away with all of this pursuit. Even the slightest pressure right now is going to backfire. As a matter of fact it is backfiring and yet you refuse to see it... Look at reality Alan..

Reality tells us that pursuing a person who wants space does not work... Not for you or anybody else..
Study the other threads of people on here who have and are still trying these types of methods. Stop clinging to methods that have proven not to work. I am sorry that you didnt do these things when you were married. She is not open to you doing these things right now because they are coming across as desperate. It is making you look needy and weak. No woman is attracted to a man that looks needy and weak.

Leave her alone until for a few weeks and see if she contacts you. When she does, be upbeat and pleasant. Be nice. Hang up first. Let her see that you can live without her and you are a happy person with or without her. Let her see that you are ok just the way things are.

I can tell you that all of these little notes and acts of giving are too much too soon. I hope I have been clear enough to you here because I have helped
quite a few people save their relationships, and have seen over and over again, what works and what doesnt work... You are doing what doesnt work.

The wise person learns from others mistakes. Others have tried the same things that you are doing, and have found out the same thing you are going to find out. Please be wise..

Thanks Keep......I think your right.....I am pushing her away...........does look desperate. I am so obvious and predictable.....if she snaps her fingers I'm right there! She knows how I feel, but what if she didn't KNOW for sure if I was there anymore?

<small>[ November 04, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

AA ... nice talking to you again. You might look desparate if you do the thing that you are going to do in the club (last post). However you already stated to W many times that you are willing to do those things regardless if M is saved or not. I do not think that statement is showing weakness. You didn't beg or plead ... About your paying her bill ... Financial Security is her top EN, you have no choice to fillin as long as she allows you to do it. You could duck the bullet since she said she could manage ... yet you don't and pay her bill. It is not an LB'ed not to pay it (use her word against her) however by paying it you deposit some LB$. By not paying also might seems that you don't care about her well being. As I said before, if you could afford it you should pay it ... knowing regardless if M would be saved or not.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I took a humorous missing you card.....put the child support check inside... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AA,

Do ya think she mighta opened the card to get the dam check??!!

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

BA
Regardless I know my wife. Just like last card.........she reads all..she's too curious. I'm hoping the more she reads the more the issue will come to the front of her mind.

sorry redhat, but you are wrong.. You dont have to beg and plead to look desperate. I am telling you guys that this way of trying to get her back will not work.... If you want to find out that I am right, then go ahead and keep up the cards and gifts routine.. She is viewing what Arthur is doing as desperate.. She has already said that once, she told him she wants space, she told him she doesnt want cards... How much clearer do you need it to see that this is pressure... Pressure does not and will not work... You can call it what you want, but as long as SHE views it as pressure, then it is pressure.

AA

Im a WS

I just want to say that I follow your threads. I think you are pushing her away. If I was your W I would be TOTALLY annoyed at your persistant need to keep doing things she has requested you do not do. I think its disrespectful. I would have more respect for a man that allowed me the time I needed to figure things out. Be there for her if SHE needs to come tell you something. Little by little she will do that and start to trust you.

You don't give her a chance to need you or miss you. You are smothering her to death with all these cards and nonstop stuff she has asked you to STOP doing.

I guess your goal is to NOT win your wife back because my friend, you are on your way to pushing her away for good if you keep this up.

You can be supportive, kind and so forth but back off. I mean it. If you want your wife back, back off and let her think. You don't even give her a chance to miss you. You give her plenty of chances to get sick of you.

You are disrespecting her.

Just my opinion

I couldn't agree more with Keepmvbfwd and Zoey ~ as I have said in response to your previous posts, your cards, little gifts, etc. are having the opposite effect than you intend. THIS IS DRIVING HER AWAY. It has nothing to do with looking desperate and everything to do with being just, plain annoying. Yes, she opens the cards out of curiousity ~ I would do the same thing. That doesn't mean she doesn't cringe every time she gets something from you. I am a BS and would find this annoying even from my WH ~ AND, don't get me wrong, I appreciate little gestures that show he loves me, but all the time, come on ~ it takes away the specialness....Plan A is not about GIVING things or BUYING the spouse's love, it is about changes you make in yourself to better yourself ~ whether the WS sees them or not.

Don't do it AA!

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-1 year old
Status: One Day At A Time.

OK
Now I am getting confused. She never came out and said DO NOT GIVE ME ANYTHING. She said "Why are you giving me cards and little gifts?" I said because I care about you. She said "Do you think the cards really mean anything to me after what you did?"

I see what your saying and some of this I have read. Give her a chance to miss me. A "mourning period". Right now she thinks I'm sitting thinking of her 24/7. Give her a chance to say "I wonder what he is doing" Why hasn't he contacted me. Do things now she wouln't expect me to do.

But, if I stop gifts/cards will that NOW appear to be a ruse? Or should I still do something, but with less frequency? I don't want to push her further away!!!!!

Besides those cards and such mean nothing to her especially right now. They may mean something later but you are taking the specialness out of it and making them annoying. I can totally understand how your W must feel and Im not a BS, rather a WS but still.

At a time like this, your words, cards and such mean nothing. Use your time and energy to read books, improve yourself, do stuff for your kid but leave her ALONE. If you backed off for a month solid, I bet anything you would get something positive in return but you won't back off for even a day.

I sort of feel sorry for her. You are going way overboard.

Remember Actions speak louder than cards/words right now. So stop wasting your time and start investing the time wisely on YOU.

Sorry to be hard but I won't BS you, Im trying to help you.

Sad thing is I don't think you can see the damage your doing and you won't stop. Thats what is sad. Any chance you have with her you are blowing.

As a woman, I find a man that is whiney, needy, smothering and so forth....VERY unattractive.

Sorry but I think that may be how she is seeing you now. That is how I would see you.

Best of luck to you. AA. Praying for you.

Don't do anything. Give her the monthly support check. Stop calling her and writing her. Visit your child and get on with your life. If she comes back around great. IF not, then it was not meant to be and you must start being strong for yourself and your child.

Believe me. She is showing you by her actions she doesn't want the cards. You won't appear rude at all. You will appear like a respectful man, respectful of her current wishes.

Don't give her another card or anything. Let her miss you. How can she miss you when you smother her. Let her sit alone for awhile and see what she is missing.

I hope you can do that. Its the only thing that will help you.

The current way you are doing things is not working as you have told us. Don't read too much into what she says either. She is still confused. Leave her alone to figure things out. Let HER come to you. Stop running to her.

Yes, she does think you are thinking of her nonstop. YOU ARE. You seem a bit obessed with the whole thing and that part is sad and also a bit scary.

Well,sorry, I just miss my wife and daughter and feel I have a lot to make up to them, but would like that chance.

AA,

but I don't want to be used either. I pay child support and I really am not required to pay daycare.

She is NOT using you. You are FORCING your self on her by placing her child support check in a card and then FORCING your will on her by paying the daycare. This is NOT using, this is manipulation on your part. You are manipulating and controlling the situation and then you state that you don't want to be used? What are you thinking? Are you wanting her to be obligated to you? Are you wanting to be able to use it later against her, "well, I did pay the daycare, ya know". In your mind racking up brownie points to flaunt?

.....if she snaps her fingers I'm right there! She knows how I feel,
Is she snapping? Did she ask you to pay daycare? What has she asked you to do? You have mentioned in past posts that you OFFER to help her financially and she says NO...but that you KNOW she wants you to, she just isn't gonna ask. How you can presume to KNOW what she is really wanting is beyond me, unless you are Uri Geller. The one thing that you can know for sure is that she wants you to LEAVE HER ALONE. She cannot be much clearer on that.

LEAVE HER ALONE AA!

As ALways, JMHO
committed

Where is that "You've Got to Be Kidding Me Graemlin"?

Right now she thinks I'm sitting thinking of her 24/7.

Well, here is one thought that you can be sure is correct, because YOU ARE!

Sheesh Man, When are you going to catch on?

Do you suffer from OCD? Might want to check into that.

committed

And you can make it up to her when and if she deciedes she wants you back in her life. I understand you are in alot of pain AA but you are creating most of your pain and you are setting yourself up for the big pain of rejection.

I know this is all easier said than done but please for YOURSELF. Stop this craziness okay. I know its hard but don't you owe it to yourself to be happy too?

Please listen to the advice here. You are getting some good hard upfront advice.

We all understand your pain, really...

I know I do.

Please think about this and are you in counseling?

I think Zoey summed it up in one word:

You are SMOTHERING her!

Back off, give it time....

BB

You are all so right! God, why did I pursue so much in the beginning? I have done it less lately. If she had done that to me I would have thought the same as she is thinking.......what a loser! You are all right. My current game plan is not working and I cannot force her to come back........I have planted many seeds. Now I have to do the opposite of what she expects........do nothing. She KNOWS I love her and care. It doesn't get better the more I say it. If marriage is what she wants I'm here if not then we both move on. I expect.......no contact.......she will be contacting me within 2 weeks to see if I'm sick or something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And yes, I have been going to IC since August. Finally found one (woman) pro-marriage---I have only seen her 4x but she is GREAT. Wish W would find a counselor for herself. She did mention it a couple of weeks ago when we spoke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway I feel better and thanks all. I know you are giving great advise....sorry I have been fighting it. Just so much pain during this!