TZ,

Space is always generous with his threads for small hi-jacks -

I see that you 1 year anniversary d-day is approaching. Mine is coming up in in about 8 weeks, so I'm wondering if that has any impact on you that you've noticed? CSue

CSue:

Sorry, SC, if this digression is an infraction.

My 1-yr anniversary doesn't seem to be bothering me. Probably because I realized how much I was letting the holidays and our 27th anniversary bother me, and I seem to be getting over that. I'll let you know when it's here, though.

Also, I've been getting busy with exciting work activities again, and this time I felt like it was truly a fun distraction from my troubles. I can actually see myself getting back into my work again, for a pleasant change. Is this detachment? Hm... probably not. Probably more like truly letting my W control her own future. ...with feedback, that is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Qfwfq

TZ,

Thanks, I'm relieved. I was starting to get anxious about whether or not I'll be anxious! Sheesh! CSue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I tortured H .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The man's crazy about me ... and I can get away with it! The torture and the seduction were simultaneous .... yin/yang ... donald/daisy ... mickey/minnie .... moe/curley .... white/rice....

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please be kind...I don't mind the mini-hi-jack, but the seduction part, for a man who's lost track of the last time he had SF....OUCH!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Speaking of Spirituality...

One of the things that we all struggle with to some degree when we think of spirituality is how we actually "fit into" all of it, where are "we" in the scheme of things?

I found a great little piece by Vladimir Kuskoff which may help. If we read it and ask "where am I along this evolution?" we may perhaps know better what our "next steps" might need to be...

The Evolution of Spiritual Awareness

Let me know what you think!

All My Love!
Spacecase

SC - just checking up on people's latest after a self-imposed hiatus from MB. I was very sorry to see the turn that your situation has taken, as I know how diligent and righteous your efforts to save your M have been. It is sad that your wife has failed to recognize how blessed she is to have you, and, as usually happens, probably won't "get it" until you've gone on to another life.

I admire your persistence, your determination to fight for your family. Your behavior during this trial honors all of us who take our wedding vows seriously. I thank you for that.

I firmly believe that, ultimately, good things happen to good people, so I have no doubt that you will again experience the joys of love that you so richly deserve.

Take care of yourself and your kids.

Visited with my attorney today...

Well, it seems pretty straight-forward. We certainly don't have many assets, so that makes it easier, I guess.

The attorney says that if we can basically agree on things, it's easy. The main things are the house, whether we try to keep it or not, and I'm inclined not to since I'd still be liable and I think it's too much for her on her own. On the other hand, I could leave her my part of the equity in it in lieu of child-support (which, by the way is a misery! about $1,200/mo if I'm making about 80k or $200/mo if I'm making minimum wage, which is what it would probably be if I'm unemployed...)

The kids we'd have joint something, they'd live with her, and I'd have standard visitation. Of course this is not an issue, I don't think since at this age it is THEY who decide when/if we see them anyway!

She'd keep her IRA, I'd keep mine, and I'd keep my life insurance, change the beneficiary.

The cars, we could each keep one and keep paying them, and we'd probably each be responsible for our credit cards and other debt we may have incurred.

All that remains is to split up our household stuff, and I think we should be able to do that fairly amicably. It's easy; she'll want it all, I'll get a few things!

Then it's 60 days from the date we file until it's final. We can agree to continue to live together until the house sells, and I guess that's it.

So I'm going to draft a "proposal" for D, run it by her, negotiate, and take it to the attorney for filing. Hopefully we can agree on things and not have to fight it out!

We shall see...

All My Love!

I have NO IDEA what to say to her!

Do I say "I'm filing, come let's talk about it" or "I'm thinking of filing..."
...I can't believe I'm at a loss here!

sc:

When you talk to her on the phone (will you, while she's in FL visiting HIM?), why not mention it then? Or would that seem cruel? Not that the A hasn't been cruel!

Love, -Qfwfq

"Our marital gridlock is unbearable. I've made a decision. We need to talk in person."

..... I donno .... I never did this for real..... I only made hysterical gestures .....

P

Weird, isn't it? After all the time and thought that has gone into this...now I'm at a loss for words...VERY weird!

Oh, she's back from FL..."home" again...

D's Orchids are blooming...

So I thought I'd share them with all of you...

D's Orchids

They are SO beautiful! I'm going to miss them...can't stop the tears today...it seems like it's really hitting me now...

All My Love!

Dear Cadet,

Those orchids are beautiful!! What a nice slide show.

I feel like my name is a trigger for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for how to tell your W? Can't she be served with the notice? Keep it at a 3rd party level and know it will be a shock to her also. She has to face it sooner or later.

How will the kids be? Do they want to live with her?

Sorry you are going through this but you sound stronger.

take care,
L.

Space,

Here's something that I found that may be of interest .....

link to Divorce as friends website

D.

Spacecase - I wish I knew what to tell you about the words to say. I don't know that there are the words in any language to appropriately convey what you feel you need to say, which is why I think you're at a loss for words (I know, something unusual for you by your own admission <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). Even we believe we have made a decision to change something that is hurting us there is no doubt there is still some internal conflict and that is why it is so hard to express all that we're feeling.

I think in these cases it is best to be brief or use a third party. I know that in my case I simply have a very hard time not expressing everything all at once and that would not serve me well. I think you are the same in your desire to share your thoughts however jumbled with your WW. I think Orchid is right (as she usually is) that if you think you will have a hard time with this that you should think about having her served. I would have a hard time doing that so I can understand if you don't want to do that - maybe a solution is to write a brief note the day she is to be served indicating that you are sorry it has come to this, but this is what you need right now. I wonder if there is an example anywhere of this kind of communication.

You are in my thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Dear Cadet,

Those orchids are beautiful!! What a nice slide show.

I feel like my name is a trigger for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for how to tell your W? Can't she be served with the notice? Keep it at a 3rd party level and know it will be a shock to her also. She has to face it sooner or later.

How will the kids be? Do they want to live with her?

Sorry you are going through this but you sound stronger.

take care,
L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, Orchid!
You've been a rock, a laugh, and an inspiration! Your name would NEVER be a bad trigger...rather a happy one!

Well, I don't want to have her served. I'd like to negotiate evrything, make it fair, POJA and all that...I'd hate to just spring it on her; there's no need, really. I think she'll be OK with it, and it'll be simpler and less contentious if we can agree beforehand, get it all to the lawyers already figured out. I guess the question is more do I present is as a fact, ("I'm filing for DV, and would like to work some details out with you") or leaving an opening (as suggested by JL, K, and others), something like "I think it's time for us to DV, and I'd like to sit down with you to discuss it".

The kids are ok. They will hurt, the twins, J & S, will cry, my older son, J, will be fine. They all know it's coming, they've been hearing about this for a year and a half, they've seen what I've done, hoiw I've acted and how I've tried. They've even told me they can't believe I still do such-and-such, or act in such-and-such way when mom is doing this or that...they now know I'm ok, too, so I think that'll make it better.
They will stay with her (her cooking's better! LOL!!!), and they'll be out of HS in a bit over a year, so it's not like they're too young to decide what they want to do, where to go, or what to do. I laughed with my attorney today when discussing custody; she said that at their age what the papers say is irrelevant: THEY decide when and how to spend time with parents at this age! and it's true!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong>Space,

Here's something that I found that may be of interest .....

link to Divorce as friends website

D.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, WGTT! Good site. I'll go thru it some more, but in essence I want this to end amicably in every way possible.
As I've said before, our love is not over, but rather I feel it's complete. I hope to be her friend always.
And she will always be in my heart; that I cannot change: not in this lifetime, anyway!

Cadet,

I am glad my name is not a trigger! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Orchids are my favorite flower and using it's name here helps take some of the bitterness and pain away.

I like JL's approach. If you feel comfortable that way, I can certainly respect that choice.

My heart bleats for you and your children. Regardless of their age, it hurts their young hearts. Adulthood is a hard transition though they want to be there sooo bad.

IMHO, good cooking or not, the one who loves and who they can love and respect is where they will want to be. There is a proverb I need to look up (don't want to misquote it) bring back to you later.

Hugz of support to U.
L.

I guess I have to clarify that we're living in the same house (different rooms), but it's pretty friendly. No kissing or touching much, (she surprised me with a hello kiss yesterday!), but we're being very civil, sharing all of the community aspects of "home", if not the bedroom.

I think it's clear to her that I love her, and always will; even if it's not mutual or not the way she wants it, I don't know. Anyway, I want this to be friendly and not a fight.

It would make no sense, in light of this, to just have her served. I'd feel uncomfortable with that, and I think it's unnecessary; I think we can negotiate and agree on everything (I'm leaving her most of the stuff anyway...I don't want or need much, and she & the kids need it more than I). I'm ok with some basic stuff...heck, I live in a hotel room for 5 months!

And I want her to see, to the very end, that I love her, and I'm a good person who's NEVER intentionally hurt her; even in the face of her ongoing activities. I want to be able to be proud of this, and for my children to learn from it, too.

They've been amazed sometimes that I can be really OK, even with some of what she's done, and not react or fight. Especially last week when she was in FL again. I took her to the airport, wished her well, took care of her business while she was away, picked her up again, welcomed her home...it makes no sense to me to do anything different now. I accept what has happened, I've forgiven her, and I accept that we have to move on...as weird as that may sound to those of you who remember my desperate postings of a few months back!

I'm OK with this, I've accepted it, it was meant to be, and because I love her, I am letting her go...

O,
The truth is that the kids will be better off with her until they finish HS. I can't take care of them as well as she can. She's always done a great job there, and I pale in comparison!

They will live with her, but they will also "live" with me, and see me as often as they like. I won't move away unless I have to, and they did it while I was at the hotel as well.

They have also learned a lot over this past year or so, and they know in their hearts who they would emulate were they to face these types of choices in the future. THAT makes it ok for me not to be there all the time. And I'm always there for them; always have been. But their mom keeps a better house than I ever could! And that's important too while they finish school. Heck, with me we end up eating take-out Thai or burgers all the time! And D is a fabulous and dedicated "mother" as far as mother-stuff goes. Our home runs like clockwork under her direction...me, I'm just a ...mess compared to that!

I have to recommend this site WGTT pointed me to, Divorce as Friends, by Bill Ferguson.
While it may at first seem "we're not there yet", ALL of his advice is critically important to ANYONE having relationship issues.
Furthermore, he describes the stages, feeling, and the effective solutions to each of them almost PERFECTLY. And the sub-title to his site is "Maybe Save Your Marriage!", so that gives you some insight into where he's headed.

Sure, the articles on the site, although good and well arranged, are somewhat "light" in terms of depth, but the stages, process, and solutions are right on from my experience!

I haven't read his books, but I have found the same things apply and have learned them from other sources, and in other ways. But for a complete, accurate and true description of the problems and solutions, I would recommend the 40-minute read of his series of articles on the site.
Thank you WGTT!!!

How to Divorce as Friends, Maybe Save Your Marriage!