I went to plan B on October 10th following d-day #2 and continued contact and lying. I really had reached a low point.

I sent the plan B letter and have not heard from my WH except on the day of my father's surgery last Friday. I emailed back with a brief thank you for thinking of us.

On Saturday, WH's sister called to ask me how I was and what was I thinking since the divorce was likely proceeding. WH's father had called her that morning and told her that WH had told him we were getting a divorce (news to me) and asking fot the name of an attorney. I told WH's sister that this was the first I had heard something definitive like that and that I was really taken aback he would raise this with his father first. WH's sister was also under the impression that WH had portrayed the need to divorce as my fault and that he had definitely failed to mention he was in an ongoing A.

WH's sister called him several times to tell him that she was unhappy that he was continuing to lie. I left a VM (I know bad plan B, but I felt like I needed to put this on the table) letting him know that I was not angry, but taken aback that he would discuss D with father before talking to me. Also said that I don't want this to me acrimonious and that we needed to talk if he was going to proceed with this.

WH is ANGRY. Sent a very angry email to his sister accusing of her betraying him and how dare she even talk to me. (Never mind that he's been discussing this with his father). Sister is very upset and said that she thinks WH is deflecting anger on to her to continue to mask the fact that he is dishonest with family. Sister also told me that she thinks WH is trying to "shove me over the edge" and get me to file the D so that he can blame me for this/get pity. She also said that she thinks he hates himself and doesn't want me to love him/cannot accept it.

This is very frustrating to be in no contact, but I suppose it is best and is protecting me from his anger. I do not plan to leave any more messages and have told WH's sister that I do not want her in the middle of any of this.

Is this type of anger normal for a WS in plan B? If he really wants a D, why doesn't he call and tell me?

most of my recent story

Is this type of anger normal for a WS in plan B?
Very normal. It's because they are not in total control of everything.

If he really wants a D, why doesn't he call and tell me?
Why should he? (think logically, not emotionally)
No reason for him to. Technically he can get a lawyer, file and never even have to talk to you the entire time.

Also, if he does talk to you, he is having to deal with you and the situation which is what most ws do not want. It's easier on the conscience to NOT deal with it.

His sister is right on the money. Bingo. And ditto Chris.

It seems that almost all WSs have some sort of emotional reaction to Plan B. It seems to come out of left field to them and be a complete surprise. Anger is a common reaction.

I recommend you maintain no contact in classic Plan B style. Leave his family to their own devices and only answer questions from them honestly.

I strongly recommend you let HIM initiate divorce procedings. If it comes to pass, you'll be guilt free in NOT starting that process.

Bottom line, he's reading right from the WS script. Nothing you described was unique.

Good luck.

<small>[ November 05, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hi Unsureheart,

Yes, the anger is very typical WS reaction of Plan B.

My H was extremely angry. He sent emails saying that I was manipulating him with these "PLANS" and the idea of following a PLAN was not a genuine expression of my feelings.

He said he realized that I was trying to keep from losing all my love for him by going to Plan B, but he wanted to know what about his diminishing love for me if there was no contact. And wasn't I worried about THAT.

He basically tried a gamet of things (guilt, anger, manipulation) to pull me out of Plan B. all unsuccessful. Altho, I will admit to slipping a couple of times, but then going right back to no-contact.

I think it was Mother Hubbard (long time poster) who once said "when in Plan B, the WS is simply experiencing the consequences of their actions". I mean, isn't this what they wanted?

Take care of yourself, be strong. I promise you it does get better.

Love,
Jo

This phenomenon is laughable but not funny. Everything about this thing of ours makes me scratch my head. You'd think that there would be differences in experience, but time and time again the same things happen to us all.

You'd think that there would be differences in experience, but time and time again the same things happen to us all.
Which is why Harley can say with a very high degree of probably that xxx will happen if you do yyy.

Chris -- Interesting comment that they feel this anger because they are not in control of everything. I think that is a particularly appropriate comment in relation to my WH. He keeps telling me that he thinks everyone is always telling him what to do and that he isn't living his own life. I told him early on in this that I recognized that I needed to be less in control and have done a very good job of not telling him what to do for many months now. He feels pressure from others that I cannot do anything about. I think it's a common thread with many of the WS.

WAT -- Had to laugh when you stated that it's right from the WS script. I am continuously amazed by how similar many stories here are and the similarity of the WS reactions. For some reason though right now, there aren't many posting about being in plan B and so having the ones that have been through this, such as you, Chris and Resilient, is very helpful to me. Sometimes it just seems important to me to know that my situation is not unique and that I am not alone.

Resilient -- Thank you. It does help to hear that things will get better. I recognize that better may not be getting back together, which some days is hard to swallow. On the other hand, I certainly did not like how things have been, so I guess any change is better. I am so afraid of getting a divorce and I don't know that I understand why other than it seems so wrong.

Whippit -- To the outside world (those not directly experiencing an A and its outfall/after effects), what both the WS and the BS are doing seems crazy. I am such a rational person that it took me several weeks to get to a point where I could honestly say that I won't even try to make sense of some of this behavior (mine or his). It just is what it is. I don't have to like it or understand it, but I have to accept it. It's crazy-making sometimes for me.

I do appreciate everyone's response. I can't say I fully comprehend this anger and blame that is being directed at me or WH's sister since we are not in cahoots or whatever WH seems to be thinking. It appears to me that WH doesn't want to face anything right now although I think he has tried in the past and it was just too frightening to him or too overwhelming. That part of it I can understand. He is a successful person in his professional life and this has threatened that and his personal life, but he cannot seem to reconcile that it was his choices that set off this spiraling of events.

I think even if he were to recognize that maybe his M was worth saving he would have a hard time seeing how to get there. I know he will not talk to Steve or Jenn and thinks these books are "a crock".

At some point though, this anger and irrational behavior does make it easier to be in plan B and easier for me to contemplate life without WH. If this is the "new WH", I don't think I can respect him or love him. I don't necessarily want the old WH (or the old me either for that matter), but this version of WH is not someone I can be attracted to and sustain a life with anyway.

Today I get an email from WH saying: I am feeling overwhelmed and don't know where to start. I want to communicate with you but am not ready but think I will be by next week and will try and get in touch with you over the weekend or early next week.

I am going out of town this weekend on a badly needed trip with friends to Las Vegas to celebrate a friend's successful (so far) battle with breast cancer. I have not told WH that I'm going out of town since I am in plan B.

If I am in plan B, do I not respond at all to him? Or, do I respond that I will be willing to talk to him if he has ended his relationship?

I'm not really clear here what I am supposed to do if he is trying to contact me to discuss divorce. Since I left that message last weekend (stupidly I admit), I probably left him with the impression that if he wants to discuss a D then call me.

If he does want a divorce, isn't it better to talk in person than to wait to be served papers? I'm just so confused as to what is the right approach here. But, this may all be silly questioning in my mind because he may just be saying this to stall (for what I don't know) and won't contact me next week.

Any thoughts about how I should handle this?

Hi unsure...

Ignore it...

If he wants to reach you next week he will and worry about what it is all about then. I doubt anything will change over the next few days.

In the meantime go to Las Vegas with your girlfriends and try to relax and have a good time.

You deserve it.

E

Hi again UnsureHeart,

IMO you are not to contact him. Even tho you think you may have initiated his contact in response to yours, you still DO NOT contact him.

The idea behind Plan B is you are do your best to stop concentrating on him and the relationship, and start concentrating on just YOU honey.

The email he sent you pulled you right back into the Triangle, and now you are worrying about what HE might do.

Just let this email go without a response from you. It doesn't need one. If you have sent your Plan B letter, he KNOWS what it will take for you to be there for him. He knows you love him, he knows you are willing to rebuild, and he knows the ball is in his court.

I know how hard this is, I slipped when my H threatened D and I got all caught back up in the Triangle, it was like D-day all over again. And all he really wanted was to see if I was still there for him to meet his sub-set of needs I was meeting. With the OW meeting the others.

No contact, you can do it! NO CONTACT.

Lv,
Jo

Elad -- Thank you. By the way, we have dinner reservations at Valentino's at the Venetian on Sunday night. Thank you for the suggestion. We're going to try and get there early enough to go on the gondolas.

Resilient -- Thank you for your insight. You are so right that this sucked me back into the triangle. I was feeling pretty good about no contact last night. I wasn't crying as I had been. I went to a make up counter and had a makeover as I'm not a big make up woman and wanted to look nice while I'm in Vegas (and I'm going to be with two women who look like supermodels/I need some assistance). I was feeling ok about me. Then, boom, I get this email today and start wondering what's going on. What should I do? What is he thinking? Ugh.

I do think they all have a secret manual that is transmitted to them via satellite or something. How is it that human nature in these circumstances is so predictable?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:

I do think they all have a secret manual that is transmitted to them via satellite or something. How is it that human nature in these circumstances is so predictable?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds about right, Hon. Harley did his homeswork regarding human nature in relationships.

Personally, I also think the WS knows the BS very well from being together for so long. They instintively feel us seriously pulling away, even without any contact. So they test the waters. But we (BS) don't get those VIBES too well any longer because they are acting like an ALIEN, and have an OP invading our space in their brain. Sounds like Voo Doo, but somewhere in there I think there's a close-to-truth analysis.

When I think of WS i see this:

A WS sitting on a fence, watering the wrong side of the lawn, eating cake in the FOG.

Keep posting when you need it, Unsure.

Lv,
Jo

Hi unsure...

You will love the Venetian...and I am sure you will have a great meal at Valentino's. Make sure you check out the ceilings while wandering around the Venetian they are incredible...

I thought the gondola rides were a bit overpriced and not really my cup of tea, although I must say I did watch for awhile...and the gondoliers do sing pretty well(most of them).

BTW--Resilient knows what she is talking about..she always gives sensible advice...glad to see she has chimed in here.

BTW2--about that makeover...there is a Sephora's right next to the Venetian...pop in and have them do a makeover while you are there...

And yes, damn it, I am a guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...I just know stuff about shopping and places like Sephora's...so there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Have a great time...

E

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Elad:
BTW2--about that makeover...there is a Sephora's right next to the Venetian...pop in and have them do a makeover while you are there...

And yes, damn it, I am a guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...I just know stuff about shopping and places like Sephora's...so there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Have a great time...E</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL ..... I'm so glad you clarified that ... phhhheeew!

I dunno Elad, I personally think it's cool you are so aware of things females like to do. And, oh ..... Does this font make my BUTT look big? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jo

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Just wanted to post to you as I finally got through Plan B and now very early into recovery. My FWH got angry about Plan B as well. He was bewildered and didn't believe it. Got offended and did kind of fly back into OW's arms. Then reality hit. He always said he never wanted to be with her, even if we broke up, he wouldn't be with her...fog talk to make me feel better?>?

Anyway, when he wants to talk to you, he will. My FWH decided in his mind he wanted to come back, end the A etc. but sent me this email that he was giving up, etc. This is all very, very typical.

Have fun in Vegas and hang in there. The fact that he is responding IMHO is only good for you.

ditto Jo and Elad - let me add just one point:

When your H contacts you (assuming it's not about divorce) allow him to speak - if he catches you on the phone. If he desires conversation, a visit, or any other interaction, simply reply that he needs to re-read your Plan B letter. If he's willing to abide by your conditions, you'll communicate with him. If not, tell him you're not communicating with him because it's too painful for you. Hopefully you said this in your letter. Emphasize your discomfort and pain, which of course, is the whole reason for Plan B - to isolate you from him to protect your remaining love.

If he e-mails, it's easier: simply reply stating to re-read the letter and attach it if you have it electronically. Either meet the conditions, or leave you alone. Again, emphasize the discomfort and pain you experience communicating with him while the affair is still ongoing. Sign your message, "I love you," or whatever is normal for you.

Good luck.

Resilient said: I dunno Elad, I personally think it's cool you are so aware of things females like to do. Does this font make my BUTT look big?

You crack me up, Jo...I'm guessing your butt looks just fine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for knowing all that stuff...probably comes from having a high maintenance W...I sure did enjoy it, though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

And evidently I learned some things...I think that may make me interesting to some woman in the future if life comes to that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry unsure...didn't mean to hijack your thread...

E

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
If he e-mails, it's easier: simply reply stating to re-read the letter and attach it if you have it electronically. Either meet the conditions, or leave you alone. Again, emphasize the discomfort and pain you experience communicating with him while the affair is still ongoing. Sign your message, "I love you," or whatever is normal for you.

Good luck.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unsure, I don't think WAT meant for you to say or type the above bolded words to your H. I believe WAT was just reinforcing your Plan B stand. Is that correct WAT?

Well, sorta. Jo is right, it shouldn't sound like an ultimatum, but it really is.

I guess a good way to say it would be something like this:

H, I love you and I am ready to work on our marriage and discuss our future together, but I cannot do this under the present conditions as I explained in my letter. It is simply too painful for me. Please re-read my letter and get back to me if you're ready to work on our marriage. I love you. unsureheart

What do ya think Jo? Elad? Chris?

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
Well, sorta. Jo is right, it shouldn't sound like an ultimatum, but it really is.

I guess a good way to say it would be something like this:

H, I love you and I am ready to work on our marriage and discuss our future together, but I cannot do this under the present conditions as I explained in my letter. It is simply too painful for me. Please re-read my letter and get back to me if you're ready to work on our marriage. I love you. unsureheart

What do ya think Jo? Elad? Chris?

WAT</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"YES", it's very good IMO. It reiterates the Plan B letter content but in an abridged version. And telling your spouse that contact is painful while the A continues IS recommended by Harley. Always use "I Feel ..." statements. You are simply being honest about how you feel. Good WAT.

Lv,
Jo