Why do some women feel they need to have an affair with married men? Especially when the man have children. Why don't they care who they hurt? Why do they allow it? Any ideas how I can find out if my husband is still seeing the OW? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi Goldie- I wish I knew! All I know from my own horrific experience is that my H had just moved for a promotion and worked with a single woman who was desperate to get married and when she came over to our new house and saw it and our 3 kids she decided she wanted everything I had worked to achieve in 15 yrs of marriage.( we had just bought our first real nice house after I had moved 5 times for H's job promotions.) She wanted my H, to be step-mom to my 3 kids, my brand new home- everything! She even had my H and our kids come over to her condo one Sunday afternoon to bake cookies and she said I could have the afternoon to myself! I think jealousy and insecurity are at the root of OW's problems.Her main goal was to turn H against me.I had done NOTHING to her to make her upset with me in any way! Our OW was in her mid thirties and desperate to have a family life rather than go home to her empty condo night after night.In the end her desperation became her undoing because she kept pressuring H to divorce me to be with her and he felt torn between the two of us- he finally DID file on me at the insistence of OW and that's when he emotionally collapsed and needed therapy from my counselor to get the courage to end it once and for ALL with OW!( He had been refusing to go to therapy before then because he said our marriage was over in his head). H did attempt to break it off with OW several times after I found out about the A but then he would get weak and get back in contact with her. I caught him by checking his cell phone call log to see who he had been calling. Caught him lying right to my face after he had talked to her a half hr earlier on the phone. There are many ways to catch them if they are still in contact. If your H is cold and distant and picking fights with you its a sure sign that they are still talking to the OW. Take care- lifeismessy

Why do some women feel they need to have an affair with married men?
My opinion is that they feel superior over the W thinking that if they can take their H away then that makes them a better woman. Its all about low self esteem. How important do you think it makes them feel when a H risks his marriage to be with them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Boy if thats not a self esteem booster then nothing is. And I have to laugh because my H said that I didn't make him feel important. I told him, "If you made me feel HALF as important as you made her feel, we would have never been in this situation." LOL and HE didn't feel important. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Gotta love em'.

It’s very often an ego boost. They are able to steal a man away from another woman so obviously they are better. Hence the way OW usually talk about BW. She’s mean, she’s a shrew, she’s fat & ugly and so forth. We’ve had so many OW come on here saying such things. At gloryb it’s the usually way a BW is talked about. The OW feels that she is better than the wife and some how saving the MM from the shrew he is married to. I know that there are other reasons but this is a very common one. I’ve read that women who gets involved like this is often grows up in a rivalry triangle between their mother and father. So they reenact it with another man and woman when they are grown.

Yep, and it's a ego boost for the MM too. He has two women who want him.

Sometimes it's less stressful. A woman who doesn't really want to commit to a relationship but wants a half a$$ed relationship finds it in a married man. He can't put demands on her, it's not a daily toll and it's one where her emotions can be kept in check. There's no pressure to move in, talk about the future, plan a life together, discuss having children or give up independence.
But why do married men have affairs? Especially when they have kids? Don't they care who they hurt? Why do they allow it to happen?

goldielocks109 ,

well in our case, OW had planned to get involved with my H.
She found out alot of things about our life, our financial situation (that we have a big house and cars and horses, dogs and that sorta stuff) she knew that our children were grown up (she hates kids, she even got sterilized to make sure she wouldn't get any) she knew that I didn't have to work outta the house.

She knew what hobbies we had and she jumped right into there. She also knew that my H is well known in the public and therefore she was able to find out alot of info. How long he was married, what things he likes to talk about, we he goes to in his free time, what places he works at and......
She organized to meet him and just make it seem like a coincedence. She then knew what to talk about, what he liked and she made it seem like everything was natural.

She had even found out that we were having a few problems. She started to talk to my H about her problemed marriage and of course one thing lead to another.

We found out later that she has been involved in many affairs and that she was a x-professional callgirl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So I guess this OW was looking for a nice and comfortable place. She didn't care less if she was hurting anyone, all that counted for her was her needs.

She would laugh in my face the whole time and she was constantly saying things like:
"I'd rather have bad sex, instead of no sex at all!"

I'm not saying this because I believe that she is a bad person or that all OW are bad, it's just that in our case, she was the "DEVIL" in person.
She had planned this way before my H had even met her personally. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My H told me many times after we had found out that this was planned that he was definately too naive. He didn't ever ask OW any questions and she just seemed to know everything about him. He therefore thought that they were "soal mates!"
The only thing she didn't know was that he hated cats!!!! OW and OWH had 13 cats!!!!!!
She told my H that she also hated cats after she found out that he didn't like em and that they all belonged to her H. He worked 14 hours a day and was therefore almost never at home. DUH!!
My H said, when he thinks about that, he knows how rediculous he was and how desparate OW was.

So I'd say in our case, OW was having an affair because she thought everything would just fit into her life!!!!! I don't think it would of mattered to her if the man was married or not, he had to fit into what she wanted. She wanted a life without having to work, she wanted out of her marriage, but she didn't want to do this on her own, she needed someone to support her.

bb

The OW in my/our case had nothing to lose and did not feel she was doing anything wrong and had an EMA while she was married. So to her Marriage is not sacrosanct.

She had an affair which resulted in her divorce when her daughter was 2 or 5 (who knows she lied so much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) she then moved in with her lover for the next 5 years. Her lover threw her out because she was selfish (her words not mine) and she ended up in a bar meeting my H and telling him about her problems and arranging to meet him again. She then tried to work things out with her SO and H got a "dear John" email but subsequently turned up at my workplace with her daughter to sit and wait for my H.

I have great amounts of anger against this woman as well as my H. She knew he was married but that didn't stop her. They had other forms of communication but that did not stop her from invading my workspace (which was the only haven I had at the time) after she had "ended" the budding A. What does this tell me about her?

1 she has no respect for marriage
2 she has no boundaries
3 she is so selfish that her daughter did not matter
4 she was so sure of herself that she would face me "on my turf"
5 she is not immoral, she is amoral which is so highly dangerous to society as a whole

AND this is the woman that my H had placed before me and our family. This is the woman that he thought/felt was more worthy/attractive than I was. This is the woman that made him forget to wear his wedding band and all that we promised each other before our family friends and God.

This is what is so hard for me and so rage inducing...she did not promise to play by society's rules but HE did. That is what is holding up my recovery. H is trying so hard now and is starting to get what depth of pain I went through and for what reasons. I too had come to realise my part in the weakness of what was our marriage. I am trying one babyatep at a time.

Ultimately, we cannot control/persuade/convince any one other than ourselves to do anything. Why do women have affairs with married men?
Because they decided to and were given the opportunity to do so.

We are in the process of making our Marriage strong enough so that no such opportunity exists.

Goldie,

First, let me say up front that I am a BS and an OW. H had an affair first, without me knowing (although I suspected) and then I had a two year affair with a MM.

When my affair began I was holding a lot of anger and resentment toward my H, so revenge played a part. I told myself it was just a fling, wouldn't amount to anything and no one would be hurt. I never planned for my H to find out and I certainly didn't want his W to find out. She never did, but MM divorced her later for another OW. Yes, I think our affair weakened his marriage and I will forever feel terrible about that.

But what it boils down to sometimes is that two people are very attracted to each other and choose to act on it. Sometimes one or the other is very unhappy and looking for an alternative to their current situation or an escape of some kind. All sorts of things can come into play.

But why would a woman, any woman, get involved with a man who is not available for something more? Maybe that is just the point. He is not available for something more. And for single women, they just give into the attraction. That first intense physical attraction is very tempting to both parties, irrespective of the other issues in their lives. And I think those women, while they know it is wrong and will result in pain, rationalize through it (like the H's do) and tell themselves that love trumps everything and MM really WILL be happier with them rather then the W.

H and I are still together. My affair has been over for 15 years, and H didn't discover it till D-day (Sept. 2000), the same day I discovered his TWO affairs!

SS

This has been a tough one for me because I know this woman and have to work with both WH and OW (thankfully not for the same organization -- they work together and I have projects with their small organization).

I think it is a combination of factors. I do not think this woman is evil, but I do think she has some unresolved personal issues that allow her to rationalize her choices. I don't mean this to sound superior or anything like that, but it is the reality and part of why I think she gets some kind of "kick" out of being engaged in this EMR. I am more physically attractive, more intelligent and more professionally accomplished in the same field. I think that is part of what appeals to her in wanting my H and that she either has a female figure in her upbringing that she is "competing with" and I am a surrogate. I also think she has low self-esteem.

I do not deny the attraction and love is there between WH and OW. I do always wonder how a single OW can get involved with a MM. Some rationalize it "as true love conquers all". If that were the case, the WH should get a divorce before they engage in this secret relationship. If true love really conquers all, why is it necessary to keep all of this secret for so long?

I think it's complicated and I think it is a fantasy life for both WH and OW that is part of the appeal. Hey, I'd like a fantasy life too where I only had to deal with being taken out to dinner, showered with gifts and taken to expensive hotels without having to solve problems, do dishes, clean the house, etc.

Awww, geez, I hope you sincerely wanted an answer to this question, because I'm going to give you one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am from over at TOW, & as many of you know, part of our site is down at the moment, so I've been surfing around for something interesting to talk about. I lurk here on MB occasionally. And although I'm not sure those of us from the other side of the fence are welcome to post here, I figured I'd take the chance -- we have several wives who regularly do on TOW & thought MB might be the same in reverse.

What I say, I say partially from my own experience, & partially from what I have gathered through years of conversation at TOW.

Very few "other women," I believe, view the man's marital status as a plus, an asset, or an inducement. Consequently, very few of us looked at the affair as: "I want to have an affair, so there's a married man." For most of us, it went more like, "I want that man & he's married, so there's an affair."

You are right -- we do quite often stack ourselves up "against" the wife, if you will (competition for the affections of another, which is human nature in a lot of different situations, not only here), but even that is not typically a source of pleasure for us. Believe it or not, we worry & hurt & struggle with issues of trust & fight for what we want & are haunted by your existence as much as you are by ours. Again, I would say that type of compare/contrast thinking is a *by-product* of the affair & not so much an incentive for us.

There a fair number of "other women" who are insecure &/or have low self-esteem. Is that percentage necessarily any higher than that of the general population? I'm not so sure. I do think these situations tend to bring out the *most* of that side of someone... I mean, everyone has at least a bit of insecurity within them, & the knowledge that you are competing with another woman for a man's affection & love... well, I'm guessing you have found, too, that any "little bit" can be suddenly magnified under the microscope of the situation.

A minority of us may, as someone said, find that the lifestyle of an affair fits us more easily than a traditional relationship might -- if, for instance, they don't want a 24/7 relationship, don't want a family, etc. After reading TOW, though, you'd probably find that is not the norm. I'd imagine it's the same for those of us who are -- quite the opposite -- actively seeking a husband & children & home. Again, a handful, but probably the minority. I think you'd find most of us fall somewhere in the middle. Many of us have been divorced & are *looking* for something in the middle -- a meaningful relationship but without the qualities of marriage we disliked the first time 'round.

I do think there is truth to the idea that many of us do not necessarily respect or value the whole institution of marriage in & of itself. I would say that we probably respect the bounds of *some* marriages (because we respect the relationship that lies beneath) but perhaps not all, & perhaps not automatically. That is probably part of why we choose different personal boundaries (or whatever you want to call them) than someone else might.

So anyway. I really do intend this post to be helpful, or to at least offer some possible answers to the inevitable "why"... I am not attempting to insult anyone or stir up trouble or get flamed right off the face of the earth... I just thought it might be interesting to read an explanation of the Other Woman from an other woman herself! Sorry if I offended in any way.

SmallCap

I think everyone involved in an EMA does so for their own reasons. I can only give you mine.

#1-It was NEVER about "marriage" for me.

He was an old friend (and xBF). I was still in love with him. He says that he was still in love with me (even after he married his W). Things for hariy at home and I was a source of comfort.

It was easy. Stress free compantionship for both of us. He and I actually have a longer history than he and his wife, but MUCH, MUCH less baggage.

Marriage never really meant that much to me. I saw his W as his problem. I was single and dated this man just like regualr. The fact that he was married only meant that he couldn't spend the night. I honestly never thought about his wife/family until WAYYYYY later. They just weren't a consideration for me.

For him I think it was a vacation for an increasingly difficult family life. He didn't have the balls to fight for real change in his marriage so he just ducked out.

smallcap -- Very likely you'll get flamed (but I think you already figured that out). I found your observations interesting. From what I have learned here and other sites, I do not believe most OW go out and set their sights on an MM. However, I do not understand how an OW reconciles being in a secret relationship. It would not make me feel very good about myself and I would think that even if you don't respect the bounds of marriage or are looking for less than total commitment, you would really hesitate getting involved with an MM regardless of what he is telling you about the state of his M.

That is the part I have a hard time comprehending. How do you reconcile getting into a secretive relationship where you know MM is lying to somebody (either the wife or the OW or likely both)? I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that concept.

In reading at TOW, most of the OW seem to want MM more than just seeking a non-committed non-marriage relationship. Most seem to want the whole enchilada eventually. I think many have been led to believe that the Ws are all crazy, psycho b#$tches and that the MMs are trapped and that the OWs will save them somehow. I know my WH told the OW some incredible stories (I have the letters).

I don't blame the OW and we certainly had difficulties in our M, but I still don't understand the MM and OW relationship and how either one of them sleeps at night knowing the pain and havoc they are causing. I personally believe there is a great deal of denial going on there. I was in denial for a long time and didn't want to see things, I'm dealing with reality a whole lot more than either of them are at this point.

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

We can define M as many things...an institution, a relationship with boundaries, a committment, a partnership, a team, a legal way to enjoy dental plans <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> etc.. We can use any of those ideas to justify good or bad behaviour. Being married is more than just being in a relationship(healthy or not).

Marriage is a promise, plain and simple. Two people promise to love, honour, cherish, in sickness and in health, good times and bad...'till death do us part. These are not meaningless vows, you say because you have to...they are promises! An A is breaking a promise. Sure, you can try to justify it but, that doesn't change the truth. If an individual can't keep his/her promises then running to a new relationship/A is not the answer! One doesn't have to respect the relationship, the institution or the BS...what must be respected is the promise that was made. To not recognize or respect the boundary that the promise implies shows a lack respect...lack of respect for ones self and a lack of respect for any promise that any other may make.

So, my point is this...why would an OP with the ability to reason things out get involved with an individual who breaks their promises?? Surely, they place more value and respect on promises if it affects them (a M definitely, affects the OP!!)! Sadly, that's not true, is it? Does doing something that feels good make it right? Lots of things that feel good aren't good for you or those around you. I like lying in the warm sun, it feels great! That doesn't mean it's good for me! A's and too much sun will leave me 'burned'. Therefore, I avoid the sun and situations that could make my FWH (and myself)uncomfortable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>
I don't blame the OW and we certainly had difficulties in our M, but I still don't understand the MM and OW relationship and how either one of them sleeps at night knowing the pain and havoc they are causing.</strong>

Imagine a situation where you never see, or feel the "havoc". It might be hard for you to imagine becaue you live with it. I don't know about smallcap, but it took me a loooooong time realize that our A had any effect on his M. I never saw it. I never felt it. If he came to my house stressed he'd say "she did/said X." To me it was just her being a "b" again. Our relationship was over for a loooong time before it dawned on me that it might be hurting his marriage. I honestly thought I was helping it. I was reducing his stress. (that's what I thougt)

<strong>I personally believe there is a great deal of denial going on there. I was in denial for a long time and didn't want to see things, I'm dealing with reality a whole lot more than either of them are at this point.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Denial-exactly. Imagine if that reality never came home to you. I certainly can't speak for all OW, but that "reality" never came home to me. If I wanted to I could still be living in denial with him. The drama at his house never really spilled over to mine.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>So, my point is this...why would an OP with the ability to reason things out get involved with an individual who breaks their promises?? Surely, they place more value and respect on promises if it affects them (a M definitely, affects the OP!!)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">mgm,
BS's take back WS every day. This entire website is dedicated to keeping promise breakers.

I think we human being find ways to justify anything we want to do.

Small,

I for one am grateful for your post. You're not here to intentionally hurt others. It helps me to understand the OP. Wish I didn't wonder but I do.

What you described regarding OW not wanting a 24/7 relationship is the case with my OW. According to H the OW has tried marriage twice; and just doesn't want the 24/7; and all that goes with it.

Affair suited her very well. Wish I knew more about her; and/or wish I weren't so curious. So I appreciate your insight! Blessings CSue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>mgm,
BS's take back WS every day. This entire website is dedicated to keeping promise breakers..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...or it's dedicated to helping BS's keep their promise, or trying to keep their promise. Not necessarily keeping a promise breaker but, a keeping a promise! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>
I think we human being find ways to justify anything we want to do.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, that's a given! What we need to consciously start asking ourselves is..."Is what I want to do, best for me and those around me?" We need to respect promises and be honest with the one person who has the power to do something about it, ourselves. Idealistic? Yep! Possible? ...maybe, someday.

GL --
My S was the OW for two men, and I was the OM for two women. Now perspective:

My S launched her first A as a pain reliever. He was reeling in a hurting marriage. She was caught in an unbearable trap. As someone said, rather than talk to me, she took the easy way out.

Next A, another man with a rocky M. Again, easy way out, but now it was more about him fulfilling her ENs -- friendship, recreation, etc. It became, obviously, PA after time. At one point post D-Day, she said she did those things to "get me to kick her out," which I'm sure was Fog for "Get your frickin' attention."

My As: First A was a married woman going through a separation and a very stressful school. I was cool, calm and collected, and offered an easy release from the grind. There would be no "commitment" as we were going our separate ways after the school. It would be a long one-night stand. It turned into a simple ONS when she realized just how "married" I really was and met someone who wasn't married.

Second, and really, most serious A: Old HS girlfriend. Twice married. Second marriage to a one-time abusive H. Had a kid. I was in a hurting marriage. It was all about rekindling the "soulmate" thing. Said she had my name tattooed on her heart. I'm sure, in many ways, she did. We turned to each other as release, escape and to fill the holes.

Again, none of us had, as the poster said "The balls" to talk to our spouses and deal with our issues.

And the funny thing is? The issues, in the long run, are really rather silly and trivial things. It was the supposed cure that made it worse.

KatieS -- I really do appreciate your perspective. I know that WH is telling her some pretty way out lies, but I doubt she knows it. It is difficult to imagine that she does not at least acknowledge that this is a tenuous situation at best. It's interesting that you say that they have such a limited perspective on the situation, but I imagine that's the way WH's like to have it. It is essentially an environment the WH define and describe. I know this rationally and that is why I really try and avoid blaming OW, but some days it is hard to imagine that she knows me and thinks this is ok. Again, I know that WH describes it to her that I am his best friend and great woman, but I "just don't understand him", etc. etc.

I am curious because I don't know your story why you ended your A?

mgm,
you're going to think i'm crazy, for but a long time I honestly believed that my course of action was best for me and everyone around me. Ok, there were MAJOR goodies for me, but in some ways it was a sacrafice too.

My thinking - this poor guy. He's in a loveless marriage and he stays for the kids. He's anxious. He's upset and short tempered. he's working late all of the time and when he is home he's generally angry.

After he and I got together he was less stressed, more relaxed and generally more pleasent. All of the sudden he was getting sex on a regular basis and was much less uptight. The time he spent with me was taken from work time so I figured I wasn't taking time away from his kids. And when he was with them, his new relaxed persona made for nice father son time.

His W saw little of him, but that's the way he wanted it anyway. (according to him)

I was feeling like the ultimate do-gooder for a while there.

Live and learn.