Hi everyone this is my first time posting here so bear with me I have a long story. My H and I have been married for 8 years we have had many ups and downs in our relationship. I got pregnant on our honeymoon so we had to learn about many roles all at the same time. We eventually got past this and for the past 3 years things have really improved and our marriage has been going well (I thought) We recently have had some major financial problem (almost bankrupt). mY H took this very hard and blames himself. I remember things getting very rough at this point. My H eventually began staying late at work, going out with friends every weekend and not coming home until morning. This was very much unlike him - I began to suspect that he was with someone else. We eventually didn't see or hear from him for days. In this time he has told me he didn't love me and he doesn't want to be married any more and wants to have more meaning and fun in his life. This was always followed a couple of weeks later that he does love me and he wants to work on our marriage. I have been very confused for this past year, he has always maintained that there was no one else. I have very recently found out differently, that he has been cheating on me for almost a year. I couldn't believe that he would do this to me, he was always very loving and honest with me. I am devistated. After I found out he told me that he wished it had never happened and he had tried several times to end it. After many talks I feel that I can forgive and move on. I told him I would have no contact with him unless he ended it with her.. and I believe he has. Our problem is that we seem to have fallen out of love (moreso my H) and lost our conection. My H is very bothered that while we are in the process of a reconsilliation he is not having the feelings he wants to have (like he is "in love") I truely feel that we can work this out and be good together but I am worried that he is going to give up too quickly. I am devestated at the thought of not having him in my life. I believe in marriage and that you should try everything befor you give up. I love him so much - but he says he has not felt love from me for a long time. I am looking for some advice and ideas on reconnecting with my H and restoring the love we once had for each other. I don't really have anyone else that I can talk to. So please any advice is welcome. Thank you so much for hearing my story it means a lot to get it all out.

Hello......
I am your husband....only my w does not want to work on M and I do. Best advise...read all you can on MB. Begin plan A.....work on yourself and he will see changes. Don't chase him. Let him feel you can go on without him, but still assuring him you love him. Sit down and aks him what his emotional and physical needs are and tell him what yours are..open communication......don't beg or plead..big turnoff!!!! SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP.....you will never reconciliate without the advise from counseling...find a pro-marriage counselor. If he doesn't go ....you go. Talk to your minister at church. If you don't go to church..START. Christ will guide you throught this. What I have learned through changing myself.....walk with Christ and act like He would act.....works great. I see myself as better and so do others!!! If my W doesn't get the benefit of new Alan then next woman sure will!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good luck

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AlanArthur:
<strong>Hello......
I am your husband....only my w does not want to work on M and I do. Best advise...read all you can on MB. Begin plan A.....work on yourself and he will see changes.

Good luck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey crazy4you,
I am your real husband... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I do want to work on this!

Every thing you say is true. I have not lived up to my expectations of myself.
I wish I never hurt you. I&#8217;m embarrassed of my actions. I&#8217;m sorry for all the pain I have caused you!

I have done much reading from this sight and see myself as &#8220;that guy&#8221; in many of the articles. I can only hope I have not gone to far with all of this&#8230; past a point where I have hurt you beyond trying again.

I LOVE YOU HUN!

BTW. My initials are DHC&#8230; A little verification? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

CadMan

Crazy4youboth,

Under the circumstances, I want to Welcome both of you to Marriage Builders. I'm glad to see both of you here, trying and already communicating with one another, in a 'safe place'. Remember, that this is a place to vent and speak how and what we are feeling, while trying to find the advice and direction that will restore your marraige.

Speak your minds, listen to one another, and let the other have his/her own posts from time to time when 'privacies' are needed between the both of you. I guess, look but don't comment immediately when either of you posts, while one or the other of you is searching for opinions.

Let the rest of give it a stab and then join us in the discussion. This isn't a 'rule' here, but I'm just trying to help ya out.

That might keep some animosity/anger down in the future, if the two of you need to talk some things out, without the other one of ya jumping in too soon.

We have other couples here and they do great about not getting us all 'caught' in the middle. But hey.. I won't go into some of the nightmare couples that have been here. In short respect each other here.. as you already have begun and things will be better here for you all, and more people will help.

I'm sure that many will be welcoming you shortly, so just be patient while the rest settle into their nightlty routine of reading and responding to posts.

If you need anything, feel free to contact me by posting to me.

Again... Welcome to the beginning of a better and restored marriage.

Thanks for the welcome Husband2you.

My W is an amazing woman and the worlds best mom. She has always treated me with respect as I her until this affair. True, things are missing from our marriage but do want it all back!

I have more to discuss with her tonight. I need to be as honest as I can without being brutally honest as I have been in the past.

Crazy4youboth... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I like that!

Crazy4you2,

Remember, being honest is very important, but how you go about being honest is also important. Brutally or not. Some areas that I think might be beneficial to avoid are questions of intimacy, SF or 'special things' that you and the OW partook in, UNTIL you both can sit down with a professional counselor and have the mediator regulate the discussion.

I may be outta line here, other's will most likely voice here.. but I think until there is a safe place to talk, that disrespectful judgements, anger, jealousy and a WHOLE lot of hurt, might not be in the best interest of the both of you right now. I'm not sure exactly where your both at, relationship wise, but be careful, where the both of your conversations lead you.

We want to restore the marriage, not crush the other person. Something for your wife... she is going to need to talk, let her. Let her tell you how you hurt her and keep your mouth shut. Don't bring up the past faults of her right now, that 'helped' you go out and have an affair.

I'm concerned about her and your willingness to be honest. Are either of you on anti-depressants?

Anyone else wanna chime in here? I need some assistance in helping this couple.

Hi again.

My W is on anti-depressants. She is strong but has needed a little help through this.

Before she caught me we did the counseling thing on a few different occasions. The outcome was not as expected&#8230; Typically the feeling we had from the councilor was they felt something was not right with my wife and I was just this great person&#8230; Bull****! Granted I was not honest about the affair at that point. The policy was that anything that was said in confidence (during separate sessions) would not be held back from the other&#8230; I was not ready to &#8220;let it out&#8221; at the time.

All I&#8217;m saying is I&#8217;m not sure if &#8220;outside&#8221; counseling (other than this board) is the best route for us (well me anyway).

Crazy4you2 or Crazy4you,

Some questions.. if your ready for them so that some of us others might provide some insight.

When did the affair begin, how long did it last and when did it end?

When was the last contact (written, spoken, yada yada), that you've had with the OW(s)?

Where did the affair start (work, other)?

Who was she (neighbor, friend, aquaintence, etc.)?

When did the affair end... ea and/or pa? (EA Emotional Affair, PA Physical Affair)

Are you still in contact with the OW(s)?

Have you written a no contact letter?

Have you and your wife filled out the emotional needs questionaire, love buster questionaire, policy of joint agreement, etc?

Children, 2nd marriage?

If your not comfortable answering.. I understand, but in order to assist, we will need to know a little more.

Thanks for sticking with me.

I just want to encourage crazy4you and crazy4you2. I know you two will be fine, a lot of us BS are trying to salvage our marriage alone w/minimal support or help from the WS, so the fact that both of you are working at it makes a HUGE difference. I also wanted to re-state the advice Alan gave crazy4you. First seek God to help w/the pain of the betrayl, I am a witness that he can heal and restore you so don't look to your husband to do that. Second really work on yourselves individually inside(positive attitude, look for and verbally acknowledge the good in each other) and out(eat right, excercise.) Crazy4you asked how to re-establish a connection, will first let me tell it takes time and serious commitment. Try doing things again that you used to both enjoy together. Do things for each other that you know the other will really like (exp. massage, cook a fav. meal, etc.) w/no strings attached. Do something with him that only he enjoys like watch a game or help him with some office stuff, you might be surprised to see yourself enjoying these things too! Start researching a certain subject or hobby that especially iterests him so you can have something to talk to him about or share with him, this is something that you might began to really like too! Finally when you do spend time together, make yourself laugh and find humor in little things instead of dwelling on the painful event that you brought you here. This is the hardest because it will go against everything you feel but if you do it long enough it will come naturally. I know crazy4you2 said that counseling is not something he would consider right now I would just like to add that maybe you can re-evaluate that decision in a couple months, or at least see if that is something she may want to do. Use Steve Harley's "how to find a counselor" and see if the one you were using measured up. There are some really bad ones out there and you may have just been to one of those, but the right counselor can really help. just a thought...

Crazy4youBoth,

Queen gave some good advice to you. How did your talk go last night? Are the two of you still with us? Let us know how things are going.

God Bless

Husband2you Answers:

It started a year ago. I tried to end it a month back but as I told my W last night I have seen her over the last week. This did not go over well&#8230;

I meet her in a bar.

It was both EA and PA.

I&#8217;m not in contact with her any longer. 2 days sober&#8230;

I have not written a no contact letter. I found some examples last night and will do this tonight.

I do not have examples of the emotional needs questionnaire, love buster questionnaire, policy of joint agreement, etc&#8230;

Is there a single book that contains all of there?

We have been married 8 years. We have 2 boys 4 and 7. This is our first/last marriage

Thanks for your continued support.

On a side note crazy4you can't post... her login does not work? any hints?

P.S. not sure if she is still intrested after last night?

Just want to bump this up as I think H2Y and I posted at the same time so he would not have seen my response.

Last night did not go well. My W is very upset with me. I had to be honest with her. Though I had promised her to not keep in touch with the OW I broke down and did... I'm not even sure why I did. Habit maybe? Looking for attention?

I do know that it was wrong and I feel terrible for doing it.

Not sure where to go from here?

Thank you responding again. As for C4U reset her cookie in the login.. I think this might help. Also, make sure your logged out of the board before trying to log her in. If you continue to have problems, go back up to the top level and there is a forum for troubleshooting.

CFU2,

I know how hard it must have been to talk to your wife last night. I know how hard it was for her to hear what you had to say, too. Time is going to make this better. CFU2, if the affair just ended, 2 days ago.. (it restarts EVERYTIME you have ANY contact) its going to be very hard for you to maintain the distance. We see this all the time here. WS's (wayward spouses) going back and forth back and forth over again. We call it the rollercoaster, fence sitting, in the 'fog' and some other's.

Each and everytime you think of the OW, you need to pick up the telephone and talk to your wife about the feelings that you are having. She,(your wife) needs to understand that breaking ALL contact is very difficult to go through. CFU2, you are going to go through withdrawals... your wife isn't going to be able to immediatley take over those needs that you allowed the OW to fulfill over the last year, so, bud, your going to have to do without, until your wife is capable to remeet those needs that you need fulfilled.

CFU,

I know that you are going through a terrible time right now. There are somethings that you are going to need to do. Trust, is going to be the hardest. You will need to NOT be clingy right now. This time is about taking care of you and your marriage. Fortunately, your husband sounds as if he's willing to work on his marriage. You need to try and fulfill his needs and 'steal' them back from the OW, and begin fulfilling the empty spots he's going to feel while going through withdrawal. This is going to be the hardest time for you. He's gone two days without contact and he's going to become depressed, angry, hurt and be distant. There are other emotions that he's going to go through and really there are alot of others that you won't be able to help him with. If for some reason he becomes, saddened, depressed, this is normal. YOU NEED to begin worrying if he comes out of the depression because, normally, it means that contact has been made. If you suspect contact, be gentle about asking. Of course if he IS contacting her again.. he may be honest with you...and he may lie about it. Soooo this is where the rollercoaster begins. Recovery really can't begin, my understanding, until he goes through his withdrawal from the OW.

There are other MB'ers here who should be helping out and commenting shortly. Let us take in the facts and then we can come up with the correct principals and solutions based upon Harley's fundamentals.

CFU2,

I have the upmost respect for you coming out and being honest with everyone. Please understand that I when writing to CFU, that I am not disrespecting, judgeing or criticizing your strength.

Affairs have a life, a beginning, middle and end. The circle of the affair, I have witnessed in my life stop and start over and over again, as many here have. Breaking the cycle, ends the affair. CFU2, try your hardest and do the best that you can NOT to hurt your wife. This is a very difficult time for you both. Patience and time will honor those who respect one another.

As for the questionairre's they are here on the website I believe. You should be able to download all of them. They are also in Surviving an Affair, by Harley. You can get the book here at the website or go to any B&N or national chain bookstore to pick it up. Most libraries have the books also, if funds are tight.

Peace to you both.. I'm here if you need more help.

Kev

hi crazies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Welcome to MB. You've just found the most educated, intelligent marriage support group on the net.

I am a BS (betrayed spouse) with about 17 months of recovery after my husband's 18 month affair under my belt. I just want you both to know that what you are going through is absolute sheer hell, but it also entirely NORMAL, and temporary, if you are both willing to take the actions (regardless of emotions) that you need to save your marriage.

I know you wanted one book - I'm going to give you 4. Fortunately though, three of them all just expand on each other!

First of all, because discovery is so fresh, and crazy4you is still reeling....I think you might want to try "After the Affair" by J Abhrams. It is entirely normal and common for a BS to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder after discovery day, and I think it would help you both to understand the emotions going on with both of you right now.

Next on the list is "Surviving an Affair" by Harley of course....this should help both of you begin to understand WHY this happened from both sides of the coin. Then, read "His Needs Her Needs" and "LoveBusters" both by Harley, to put together a plan for rebuilding your marriage.

I can give you links to the Emotional Needs and the LB questionaires....BUT...honestly? I think that those questionaires are dangerous in a situation like yours without the guidance of a professional. Especially since both of you are so new to the concepts. Without a firm basis in MB principals, and with the discovery so fresh, I fear that you would end up doing more damage to each other.

I'd really recommend that you call Steve Harley (thru the counsel link on this page) and do some phone consultations. He's AMAZING and can help guide you both thru recovery and steer you thru the pitfalls.

Recovery is the hardest thing you'll ever do, but it will be absolutely worthwile, when your marriage springs back to life. Dr. Harley did wonders for me and my husband, and we are definitely a success story. I have a much better marriage now than I did pre-A. My husband is in love with me, and I with him. As far as I am concerned, it was a miracle...but in reality it isn't - we simply put into action the rules of marriage that Harley outlines, and it did exactly as promised.

Anyway, here is the link to the questionaires.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4500_resource.html

<small>[ November 19, 2002, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

I just want to thank you all for your advice and caring. It has all been very helpful to me and truely appreciated. I was so lucky to have stumbled upon this site and finally have a somewhere to go to talk to people who know how I feel. I am a somewhat private person and cannot discuss a lot of details with friends or family. I told my H about this site but did not think he was goin to find out who I was here and answer my posts. I do feel like my space and privacy have been somewhat invaded, but at the same time it may be a good thing.

The past year has already been a "rollercoaster ride" for me. All of our problems seemed to fall out of no where in the beginning ( I see things more clearly now) and understand somewhat how things got out of control. In the beginning of all this I felt abandoned. I was left to deal with kids, house, bills, etc.. everything on my own. I had no car as H was gone most of the time with OW and my freedom was taken from me. I was left with young children who had lots of questions and emotions of their own and it broke my heart to see them suffer.. Now I am thankful to have had this past years experience. As difficult as it has been I have managed to take something possitive from it all. I have spent a lot of time alone and done a lot of thinking. I was very smart to get myself to my doctor and tell him what was happening in my life. He put me on a very good anti depressant. which has helped me to function aand think clearly. It has helped me to feel alive again and relize that the past few years of my life have been spent in a depression that I was totally unaware of until now. I have done a lot of work on myself and improved my self and my stiuation. I took back my freedom and with the help of family was able to buy myself a car. I went back to work and I now have my own income and I feel more secure. I have lost a lot of weight (which I have struggled with for years) - although it has been through stress it has helped me to feel better. My confidence had improved and I have been working hard on controlling my angry outbursts. I have energy, I do things that I never thought I could do on my own and I have realized how strong a person I am. Even though I have been living a hell for thast year on another level I feel wonderful ,confident and very able to look after myself and my kids. I have focused more on myself than I have in years. I have accepted that I play a role in my husband's A and I am willing to deal with those issues openly.

Since I discovered the A a llittle over a month ago I have understood how things like this can happen to people and how it has happened to us. eventhough my heart was ripped out of my chest I still felt hope . I felt that I had the ability to forgive and our M was worth it to forgive. I have been patient and open minded and was willing to do do what ever was needed to make our marriage work.

Once again he has gone back to the OW. I am very angry and hurt at this point. He has done it to me again knowing full well how much he has hurt me and seems to do it so easily. Why doesn't the WS have to be accountable for anything? When does he have to work on himself? When does he have to be patiend with me?? It just seems like my H has become a victom and the BS has to do all the work. In your posts I have read about fulfilling the WS emotional needs - what about the BS emothinal needs? I do understand the concept of MB and none of my anger is personal to anyone who has replyed to my post, but I really feel like I have done so much damn work already and my H can just go back and forth until "I" have helped him with his withdrawl? At what point does he take responsibility for his own actions and have some self control and just not see her because he simply doesn't want to hurt me or his kids anymore??

The past few days I have not been able to control my angry outbursts and last night called the OW. I am now angry at myself for lowering myself to that level. The OW knows that my H is married and has kids and wants to work on M (so I've been told) and she is still ok taking him back at anytime. I just wanted someone else to feel a little pain for a change. I don't get many breaks from my kids and they seem to ge getting less an less quality ftime from my H.

Maybe in a few days I will be back to normal but right now I just don't know if I have the patience for this anymore.

God has always been strong in my life and I realize he has carried me through this. I hope that he can once again give me the strength to deal with this again but at the same time I am also human and I don't know how much more of this I can take.

Sorry for such a long post - thank you again for giving me a place to "vent" and get all this "stuff" out of my head.

H2Y, It was brutal&#8230; we were getting along so well. I was very tempted to just end it and never mention it to her. It would have been easier but I suspect it would have come back to bite me in the [censored] one day. I&#8217;m now happy I did tell her. Though she is very upset with me I feel like a huge load has been lifted off my shoulders. I&#8217;m now hiding nothing. It&#8217;s a good feeling!

I&#8217;m very pleased that we both have someone to talk to about this so no worries!

I know it is hard for you to understand why your H would betray you again and contact the OW. I am the WS in my M, and my A devestated my H. At the time of D-day I was so numb to my feeling for H, and I was wrapped up in the fantasy of having the freedom to see OM.
I now can't believe I felt that way. I have truly fallen for my H again, and now see him for the truly awesome person he is. I thank God every day he didn't divorce me when he found out. It does take time though, and this is still VERY fresh for you guys.
My H and I have started doing a lot more together, in and out of the house. We work in the kitchen together more, cooking and cleaning. I make sure to comment on how much I enjoy having him by my side, he likes it too.
OM is out of the picture completly, he turned out to be a real scumbag deluxe btw...
Our M is actually stronger now, we communicate more than we ever did. Next year we plan to have another child. We love our D, she is the light of our life. Since we are getting along great, her grades are improving. She was also having trouble with anxiety at school last year, and I know our marital issues were at hand.

This is a good place to come and talk with others who have been there, done that. crazy4u2, expect moments of anger and sadness from your wife, this is a completly natural part of the grieving process for the BS. It will subside with time if you continue to reassure her you love HER, and are there for because you WANT to be there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by crazy4you:
<strong>Once again he has gone back to the OW. I am very angry and hurt at this point. He has done it to me again knowing full well how much he has hurt me and seems to do it so easily. Why doesn't the WS have to be accountable for anything? When does he have to work on himself? When does he have to be patiend with me?? At what point does he take responsibility for his own actions and have some self control and just not see her because he simply doesn't want to hurt me or his kids anymore??
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Crazy4You - Welcome. Sorry you had to find yourself in a situation that caused you to come here, but you've come to the right place.

I just came upon your postings and felt compelled to post myself. I understand so much the pain you're going through. For me, the A was one thing, and continued contact after NC was completely another. My H was also the one who initiated the continued contact. I have the absolute hardest time with the fact that once he told me that there would be no more contact (and that was a L-O-N-G time coming!) that he did continue to contact her knowing full well how much he had already hurt me and how hard I was trying to rebuild trust. My H, however, did not tell me about the continued contact - I had to stumble upon that myself. It happened on several occasions, and it meant that the first half-year I thought we were in recovery, we actually were not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> This is the part that makes it the hardest for me to trust now. And I DO realize that in many, many cases, the first NC does not work. I know it is so very hard for them to break it off completely. I would have really preferred that he be honest with me and tell me how hard this was for him - he really did not let his withdrawl symptoms show.

I just wanted to tell you I understand so well what you said about how you think your H should discontinue contact just because he does not want to hurt you or his kids anymore. I too think that is how how my H should have felt.

I wanted to say I can appreciate too your feeling that your space and privacy have been invaded. You came here first looking for help, and now it's not really all about you since your H has joined in, not that he isn't welcome here as well.

I'm really sorry your H continued contact, but it was good of him to tell you that he had that contact, IMHO. And please do remember that many, if not most, WS do not make a clean break of it with the first NC letter.

I hope that the two of you can both stay here and learn all there is to learn.

Crazy4You2 - Hi and welcome. I hope I didn't sound too hard on you in my post to your W, but I can appreciate only too well how she feels. I'm sure it's especially hard when she doesn't feel comfortable talking to family or friends about this stuff.

I also did want to tell you that you did the very best thing by being honest with your W and telling her about the continuing contact. I know that hearing that from you hurt her more than you will likely ever understand, but still, you were right to tell her. It is her right to know. I sincerely wish my H had done the same. I'm sure it would have been painful either way, but just to know he felt the need to be honest with me before he felt he had be to would have meant so much to me. I am left now knowing that if I hadn't come across evidence of the contact myself, I would never have known about it.

I am glad that you are here, C4Y2, because it's a really good place to learn how to do it all differently from here on. I hope you are both able to consider yourselves in recovery now and move past all this. And please, don't contact OW again...

MT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by crazy4you:
<strong>Maybe in a few days I will be back to normal but right now I just don't know if I have the patience for this anymore.

God has always been strong in my life and I realize he has carried me through this. I hope that he can once again give me the strength to deal with this again but at the same time I am also human and I don't know how much more of this I can take.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Crazy4You, are you out there? I'm hoping you're doing okay...

MT

Hi MT - I'm still here (I just answered one of your post a few minutes ago)

I'm doing a lot better actually I have managed to get a lot of anger out of my system and I am thinking clearly again. The last few days have been wonderful. My H and I have been doing a lot of talking (about everything) My H is being very honest with me has ended the A with the OW and will be sending a no contact letter to her within the next few days. She still call him often but he always tells me when she calls and lets me hear her messages. I think he is relieved that he can finally tell me everything and I am relieved to know that he wants things to work.

We are still living separately for the time being but have been seeing a lot more of each other. The kids are really happy about this - even though it must be very confusing for them, it's nice to see them so happy. I realize that I still do have the patience work on our marriage -it means so much to me and I have come too far to give up now. Things are going so well I feel like for the first time in a year I can finally breath again.

I hope things are gong well for you - thank you so much for your support

Crazy4you