Let's air out all the pros and cons for a BS to contact and communicate with the OP in an ongoing affair. The goal of this discussion should be to provide new BSs with everything they need to consider when contemplating this decision and if they decide to do it, what to do and what not to do.

I fully realize that MB principles guide us to understand that we shouldn't focus on the OP - that the roots of the affair lie within the marriage. Nonetheless, there's a strong temptation to contact the OP and in some situations, it's unavoidable.

I'll start by stating some obvious considerations. For example, in my case, the OM was a very good friend and neighbor. Contact and communication on a variety of other topics - before he knew what I knew about the affair - was routine. After d-day, contact and communication about the affair would have been considered by most people to be expected. The way it turned out after d-day, I initiated contact on only a couple of occasions due mostly to the affairee's denials, his avoidance of me, and my realization that there was little I and OM's W could do to separate these two dogs in heat. In contrast, OM's W initiated LOTS of ugly contact with my WS. She was quickly labeled a pariah.

When the OP is a complete unknown, the situation is obviously different. In many cases, the BS doesn't even know how to contact the OP. Whether to identify and seek out the OP in these cases seems to have many more unknowns and risks - yet with possibly a greater potential benefit.

Some pros for contact and communication as I see it:

For non-acquainted BSs/OPs, It can alert the OP that the person they're involved with is, in fact, married, not divorced already, not separated, has children, or whatever the REAL situation is as opposed to what the WS has claimed. This presumes that the WS has lied to the OP to some extent - a pretty good bet. Maybe this will cause the OP to alter their involvement and bring the affair into the light of day. Of course, the BS may have no idea what the WS has claimed to the OP.

The usual con:

Whether the OP is an acquaintance or not, the OP will likely go straight to the WS with the information and the WS will come right back to the BS with all the usual counter accusations and denials. In sum, a HUGE love buster. But is this a necessary, calculated LB, worth the risk? Can it counter lies told to the OP?

I'll propose that the decision to initiate contact with the OP is not a one-size-fits-all decision. But IF the decision is "do it," then the BS should only communicate the truth of the BS/WS situation, i.e., very married, etc., not make accusations, not ask questions, and not make threats or demands. Stay on the moral high ground and don't provide fuel for the WS and OP to ridicule the BS.

OK, take it away! Please provide your insights, including any personal experiences, for how a BS should analyze this and choose what to do.

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Pro:
* if the OP doesn't know the WS is married a call would let them know
* shows OP that you are still invested in the relationship

Con:
* you have NO IDEA what you're going to get
* the OP has likely only heard terrible things about you (the BS)
* the OP may see you can competition
* you might not be able to erase the things the OP says from your mind.
* IMHO this does more harm than good

Personally, I made sport of my xMM's W. She meant nothing to me and I treated her as such. What's more i'm a ballsy NY broad and she really isn't.

My xMM's W called me once a long time ago. I think she thought she had prepared herself for the conversation. I told her things that she obviously wansn't ready to hear.

Personally I think calling the OP is a really mean thing for the BS to do to themselves.

JMHO

My two pennies ... I think, ultimately, any contact to the OP is really contact to the WS ... whether or not the BS realizes it. I concur with WAT and KS that one should be careful.

I agree with Katie's List, and would only stress to

Con
-the OP has no loyalties to the BS and may lie.
-The WS may be angry to have lies or truth exposed to either the OP or BS.

The OW told me she didn't date married men...at a time she'd been in a PA with my H for over a year, and had spent the afternoon with him. Go figure, I guess they didn't go out much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

If you contact, be polite, dignified, wise,
and wary.

I found out about my husbands affair in July (it started in April). OW lives 7 hours away and I did find out her name/phone/address etc. She was married, unhappily, with kids.
My H would have been very upset if I had contacted her or her H so I didn't because I felt that it would be a huge LB and I didn't want to rock the boat that much.
About 2 weeks ago, OW's H found out about the affair and actually drove to our house to confront my H and ask him what his intent was. My H was pretty freaked afterwards, but I think it has made my H and OW even more close if that's possible. She had been telling my H alot of negative things about her H and now my H was more involved with that first hand.

I do sometimes wish I would have let OW's H know when I found out in July...that maybe it wouldn't have progressed to where it is now. OW is getting a D, and my H is still in contact with her and so I'm trying to plan A. He hasn't said he wants a divorce, but I know he's been to a lawyer.

It's a hard call I think...I guess I didn't make that call because I didn't know if it would accomplish anything and I thought it could make things worse between me and my H.

Personally if the OP and the WS are in this so-called "fog" (i'm not a big fan of the fog theory) I think that contact makes things worse.

I was only ever told horrible things about the W. When she contact me eevery thing she said I read as nasty. Looking back she was probably just anxious and afraid.

So when he and I spoke about it the first words out of my mouth were "wow you were right. She IS horrible." It was something that we bonded over.

I think there will be OP out there who will begin to see the BS as human and/or confused. It's a gamble.

Well, in my case I knew the OW. As a matter of fact, we were close enough that she had asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding.

I had absolutely no problems with confronting her and giving her the option of A) You tell YOUR husband, or B) I will.

I guess every situation is different.. but in my situation I was betrayed by her as well. She pretended to be a friend, I TRUSTED her to be friends with my husband. So they both got it from me--with both barrells... altho my H got it 100 times worse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just my opinion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

OK, here's my 2 pennies worth (te he, OK, we're through pounds, shilling and pence, but don't have cents yet!).

My BS contacted OM. In the hours following d-day, I spent 16 (yes 16) gruelling hours watching him go through every single emotion, get progressively drunk and abusive, force me to phone OM, and then demand his full name and a phone number. I told him as little as possible, because I could see no point in him contacting OM and being further hurt.

My H is a clever soul - with the information I told him he found out everything he wanted from the internet, home details, work details etc. etc.

In the first week after d-day, my H left 3 phone messages on OM's mobile - one saying I know, leave my W alone, one saying I may well tell your W if you don't and another saying, its 4.00am in the morning, I'm not sleeping you shouldn't be too.

When H returned from Germany, we got in a huge fight that night and he left 1 further message on their home phone. He then thought it "funny" to wind him up, sent him a tape with an Oasis song on (this was 1 month after the last phone call). This is when OM first telephoned the Police and they contacted H and warned him not to contact OM again. This still didn't make H back off, and he then send an e-mail to OM's company address (OM owns his own company) with details of the A. This is when he was arrested, put in a Police cell, humiliated beyond belief and finally released with a Police caution on the advice of the Solicitor (who actually told H that they would have enough evidence to convict H of harrassment).

IMHO - should BS contact OP - NO!!! The pain, humiliation and everything that went with that for my H was huge, although he conceeds the e-mail was foolish (if it hadn't been so serious, we would both have found it funny). For me, it was just horrible all of it, for many reasons.

I'm not saying that all BS's would go to the lengths that my H did, but it's easy to get carried away when you are hurt and suffering. And as Katie Scarlett says, you actually may end up being more hurt by hearing things you don't want to.

This is just my experience, and perhaps if the A is continuing people would have a differet spin on it in relation to trying to stop it. But what H had to go through wasn't worth what little pleasure he got out of trying to get back at OM. And let's face it, other OP out there might act in the extreme, childish and spiteful way that OM did towards H.

Lisa

Geeze Lisa,

your story proves that old saying true.

"vengence is a sword swung by the blade"

Worthatry-

Your situation is same as mine, friend, neighbor, routine socializing etc, but I was strongly counseled by many (maybe you?) here to avoid contact.

Pros- You could scare him off, make him ashamed, make him think that seeing your W is now going to be too much trouble, make yourself feel better.

Cons- Makes you the common enemy uniting him with W, belittles w and makes her feel like Daddy has to bail her out or take charge (feelings of inferiority to H or control by H may have been part cause of EMA), the only person who can stop him is your W and you need to see her do this to heal.

I have not spoken to my former buddy since d-day last November, so far so good.

Jack

Welp, WAT and some others here know about contact with the OW in my situation.

I was counseled by our Therapist to avoid all contact with HER. I was told not to pick up the phone when she called and let it go to the answering machine, and to never respond in any way to any of her contact. Which I did do.

I never wanted to contact the OW, I never had the desire to. I felt contact with her would be nothing but a Jerry Springer-type show and I just couldn't imagine particiating in something like that. Not to mention, I just don't have the verbal skill-set to banter in that fashion. I'm not saying I'm better than her or anything. It's just that it would have been like a Chinese person talking to a Wookie. We just wouldn't have been able to communicate.

And I also felt that a conversation with her would have somehow taken my dignity away, that discussing who's "MAN" my H was, was a NON-subject as far as I was concerned.

Jo

Unlike Lisa of London's case, WW's OP's ARE the police. All 5 of them. Contact them? Just as soon as I could! In the first two affairs I found out about, the OP's were warned off (I was told there was really nothing much going on. Not physical at all! Anybody heard that one before?) I'll never know if there was any more contact after that. Of course, I was told that my call ended each one. Realistically, I believe there would have been at least one more "discussion" after each phone call I made. I never found any more evidence of it continuing.

I finally found out about another affair that lasted about 2 years (WW says 1 year - she's either minimizing again or lying - again). This one I found out about 23 years after the affair. Two nights after learning about it, I drove 100 miles to wake him up at 5 in the morning. Small admission about PA, then lies & more lies. At that point I only had part of the info I should have had. (His first response to me was "That was over 20 years ago" in a voice that suggested I shouldn't be upset now. Is there a statute of limitations on how we feel??)

The other 2 affairs were revealed in the next few weeks. I confronted one OP that I could locate. He denied the affair at all! Suggested WW was "sick" & making it up. (He paid for that on the spot!)

Meanwhile, I made a point of finding #1 & confronted him personally. I wanted to learn more from him to fill in a number of puzzle pieces I was missing. He LIED. Never happened according to him. No "opportunity"!( "Where could we possibly have had sex?" LATER, she told me about the motel, bottle of rum, everything blank after that.) Puzzle pieces are still missing.

I'm still looking for #5. I'll find him if it costs me everything I own. I've been looking for over 2 years. I will not quit until I face him nose to nose. I don't care about #2. It was an EA, mostly a letter-writing campaign between each other. ("I wish it was my child you are pregnant with") I'd have considered myself a fortunate man if they'd all been EA's.

Interesting fact: Of the 4 OP's with whom WW had sex, every one of them is divorced. Three were divorced within a year or two of their affairs with WW although none were directly linked. (Indirectly, of course. They couldn't possibly be creating a positive home life for their own families if they were screwing around with every bimbo willing to take off her clothes. Their wives undoubtedly got similar treatments at home as I did while the affairs were going on.)

Another interesting fact: Not one of them had the decency to use a condom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How's that for being the lowest form of life on the evolutionary totem pole. Not respect for themselves OR their own wives. (Does anybody out there DARE talk to me about forgiveness?? Save your typing fingers!)

Every one of these low-lifes lied. Only one even admitted the affair, but he lied about frequency and details. So much for any sense of honour or integrity!

Contact with the OP is my way of getting in their face. The only way I have of throwing it back at these gutless little shells to let them think they didn't win, that they didn't get away with it. (They did really though. I do feel beaten and they DID get away with it. So far, not one has been "punished".) At least they know I had the guts to face them. They could screw my wife behind my back and lie to my face. But I got some small satisfaction in letting them know they didn't walk away with the oscar for decency.

I wish I had known at the time all the details before I faced them. It would have taken away their continued ability to lie. But WW, in true WS form, continued to protect them at my expense.

Pros: I feel somewhat better. Would have felt great if I'd only had ALL the info at the time to FULLY deal with the liars.
Cons: I honestly can't think of any. But I do believe every OP should be notified, if not "confronted", just to let them know that they didn't completely win, that they've been found out. It might be the only way the BS can feel less like a loser.

Thanks all for the responses.

Let me suggest we approach this question a little more narrowly.

Repeated contact, for example as described by Lisa, should be an obvious no-brainer. Vengence and harrassment type of contact is not what I had in mind for this thread.

Let's focus on one time or minimal contact done in a non-emotional manner (if that's possible).

I'll point out that the classic Plan B implementation includes sending a copy of the Plan B letter to the OP with a personal note from the BS. Read about it in SAA.

WAT

The OM falls into the to the catagory of friend, neighbor and at one confidant. After the D and D-Day I contacted the OM about his intentions. Wasn't really sure what I was looking for. I wanted the truth basically and to find out if my intincts on him were true. At this time I didn't know what I wanted.

The talk was amiable and I found out a lot about there relationship at the time. I pretty much didn't say anything much about my XW until the OM made a comment about my XW and I just had to prove him wrong.

At that time it was the correct thing for me to do for myself. If I had not know the OM as well as I did I don't think it would have helped. Only my knowledge of him help me gleem and useful insight.

I knew then that it was not going to work out for them. Too many lies already. The OM is the type of man I always thought he was. There is a difference between how you express yourself and who you are. You can't change who you are but you can change how you interract with world.

He talks a good game.

OW in my case was his secretary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I had talked to her everyday but decided upon confirmation of the A, that I would not ever contact her again. I'm not saying that I didn't have the urge to call her and tell her off, I did! I didn't consider it a prudent part of my battle plan.
He told her I knew. I was also in an all out Plan A mode. It was working. She was dealing with the unknown now. I think it made her push for more of a comittment from him which he couldn't do. Things started unraveling around that time for them.
I really believe that the less information the OP has about the BS, the better off the BS is. I think it creates a weak spot for the OP and causes them to become desperate and we all know how unattractive desparation is........

Cleo,
I happen to agree with your last statement. The one thing you might want to take into account though is that WS often feed info to the OP. In my case he was always talking about her. I knew more person info about her then her priest probably did.

WAT

Whilst I understand the point you are making about one of contact and what my H did, I think you saying it is an "obvious no-brainer" is not true. My H is exceptionally intelligent, but was hurt and wounded beyond belief. Even after the first approach by the Police he had another go, without even digesting what the implications could be, and not thinking that it would come to that (thanks Katie Scarlett for actually making me laugh about it). He truly thought he was not contacting OM directly.

The point being, these things can get out of hand, so even a well thought out/purposeful one-off contact can get completely out of hand, because of the suffering and hurt that is ongoing for BSs. If my H had spoken to OM in the first instance, maybe the situation would have been different.

Situations get aggrevated, the stakes are raised and normal, intelligent, rational people behave in abnormal, not well thought out irrational ways. Err on the side of caution.

Lisa

This is my first time posting. I found out about the A in mid September by accidentally reading an email from the OW to my H where she professed her love for him, described how great "making love" with him was and said "it doesn't get any better than this". I was shocked, confronted my H immediately and made him call the OW to let her know that I knew. I discovered the OW is married, has two small children and through cell phone records, etc...was able to get her home address & phone # along with work and cell phone #s.

My WH was in shock at my discovery and supposedly ended the affair. Over the past 7 weeks, I have found that, even though he cut it off with her, she continued to initiate contact with him and he would fall right back in. I have contacted her 3 times as follows:

1. - when I found out they had been together one night when I was out of town - I called her at home on a Sunday morning and told her I knew they had been togeher and to stay away from my H. Her reply was simply "O.K." My H confirmed later that she had been sitting next to her H when I called and it freaked her out. She is very afraid he will find out and that she might loose custody of her children.

2. - One week after he had ended it (again), his cell phone beeped, I turned it on to find that she had left a text message (w/her cell phone #) that said - I Love You. I sent her a text message back to "Leave H Alone" Then I checked the previous cell phone bills to find that text messaging had been a favorite mode of communication w/hundreds of messages per month.

3. - Our MC told me to contact OW's H because OW obviously didn't think I would. I couldn't keep track of my H's actions when no one was watching hers. My WH broke it off again (for the first time w/confidence) and I decided to give him one more chance b/f calling her H. (I don't know this man or how he would react and I wouldn't want him to seek out my H in a rage). After 2 weeks - so far so good. For my own peace of mind, the day after their break up, I left a vm for her at work. I wrote out exactly what I wanted to say including that I had been advised to contact her husband...and if she contacted my H in any way, I would not hesitate to contact him. I told her my H had discussed (in detail) their "break up" conversation, told me he loved me and wanted to work to keep our family together. I needed her to respect that and I prayed that she would be able to rebuild her own marriage.

My message to her was concise and carefully scripted without being emotional. I said what I wanted to and it made me feel better.

Katie,

Before discovering A, I spoke with OW many times about personal things. We talked about her life and her dating expereinces. Also, because she was his secretary, she took care of some of our personal business, so she was in a position to know certain things. She knew how I felt about my H and she also got his version of things. He told me later that this caused her to be confused about the state of our marriage at certain times.

I only sent one message to her and it was through my H. That message was that she was never to speak to my children again or to handle anything that had to do with my children again. I know he told her this, because he told me about the conversation.

WS status is a consideration: At home or still wandering?
If a FWS, then:
Pros:
-- answer a lot of questions
-- send a signal to back off
-- show WS your commitment.
Cons:
-- OP "lives" and realizes he/she is a threat
-- You might hear details you really don't want from a very skewed perspective
-- WS could interpret it as a "reconnection" via your actions.
-- Could get violent/stupid and make you look worse in the WS eyes.

For a still wandering?
Dude, it's all con, as far as I can see. If he/she isn't back home, you lose any way you go. Stay cool. Plan A.

Of course, there are exceptions, but that's in general. In my case, have had two contacts with OP. One was WS initiated because she thought he'd kill himself and I didn't need her feeling grief over his dead body to further muck up our relationship, and the second was an IM chat on my own because he was being a tool and it was pissing me off. Didn't end well.

It's a tough call, that's all I can say.