Don't be hard on yourself ...no one has done perfect plan A, we LB'ed but the most important thing is to learn from it and do better next time ... isn't that plan A ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . -rh-

AA,

Please remember your words to her have no positive effect at this point. You actions will a little positive effect. Keep SHOWING the changes and little by little she will see them clearly. It takes time. If SHE CHOOSES not to see them, then you can honestly say you did everything you could to save this. By the path you are choosing to follow now, if she chooses to D, I am afraid you will look back and always wonder what you did wrong.
Just my opinion.

I haven't posted here for a while, so believe me I'm not trying to poke at you. I'm just trying to help you, as we all are.

Take Care

HW (Formerly TORO)

Your right that is what I was thinking......will I look back at this and say I wish I had done this and done that! NO MORE CONTACT....she will be curios. I did tell her I am going to start living my life now...no more sitting by the phone. I am going to do some fun things and enjoy myself. She knows I care and I have said everything I can. She needs time to sort it out and figure out if she will be happier without me...at this point she's probably thinking yes.

Website is suspended. I got your point BA and all. I am going to let her experience bill paying....I hate to see her suffer though ...makes me feel terrible because I should be there helping them and protecting them <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

AA, this is IMHO only. The no contact thing is ok, i.e. Plan B. For me there will never be a Plan B. Most everyone here will say that Plan B is to protect the love you have for your wife. I disagree. If you feel unconditionally loved (not just from your wife, but those around you) then there is no need to "Protect" your feelings for her. The only reason, for me, to ever do a Plan B would be to keep from losing the RESPECT I have for my wife. Yes, it is slowly dwindling away, but my love for her never will. She cannot hurt me anymore. But, I can lose my respect for her as a human being and a mom. So, Plan B for me, i.e. no contact, would only be so as to not lose that respect for her, not to "protect" my love for her. I don't need someone to fill my LB$ when I am loved unconditionally from those around me.
That probably made no sense, but sometimes I just ramble. Just something for you to think about.
I'm sure I'll be flamed by some here and that is ok.

HW (formerly TORO)

One more thing. Please do not ignore her though. I know in Plan B we tell them not to call us or see us. In my sitch, I do not call her unless it is regarding the kids. But, if she calls me or if I see her when we drop the kids off, I am VERY pleasant and respctful. I do not ignore her calls or hide from her. She sees and feels the changes in me by me not calling her and her contacting me. Sunday night she sent me an e-mail saying to not call her, not to see her and not to e-mail her. I havn't at all, but by Tuesday she was calling me twice a day. Go figure.

HW (formerly TORO)

I may be wrong about this, but doesn't she have a restraining order out on you? The cards and the website are borderline stalking....

I went back and read over some of your posts and while I feel for what you are going through...YOU ARE NOT LEARNING ANYTHING!....Your old posts talk about smothering her, you say you're gonna change, and your new posts talk about smothering. Your old posts talk about your obsessive behavior, your new posts talk about your obsessive behavior. AA, you have to change yourself. She doesn't like what you have become. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. This bullcrap with "but she's reading the card" has got to end. Quit overanalyzing everything she says and does...If i'm right about the restraining order, then no wonder she did it....Dude, you need to back off.

Now I'm sure after this post, you will come here and post and say "You're right...I've got to do things differently"...I've seen you post that same thing a 100 times...AND NOTHING IS CHANGING.
I'm going to generalize a little bit here, but it's all the best interest of making my point....Women do not want a man that they can walk all over. Women want a MAN....Now stand up, get some of your dignity back and be a MAN about this. Wanting to be a part of your 'old' families life is one thing, but quit giving your wife the impression that you are spineless.
Now i'm climbing back down off of my soapbox, and I'm still hoping and praying that you and your family get together. You obviously love them very much, and kudos for taking down the website. It was a very good thought, but a very bad thing to do at this point...

Thanks
I do find myself saying "DO IT THIS WAY" then reverting back. I'm sure she has the sense that I will revert back to the old Alan if she does decide to work on marriage. No more contact from me.....probably won't see any more posts for awhile "I DO" know what I have to do NOW I ahve to do it. I know she will eventually contact me.

PS: I got asked out on a date.....just a friendly movie and conversation.....do I go?

Who is doing the asking?

If this is another gal, then no. It is do risky. If you went and W found out, it might just nail the lid on the coffin.

I mean, come on, your wife leaves you because you had an EA and now you are talking about dating someone else?

Alan, you should know better. Ohhhh 22222looong, where's that 2x4?

Really, you need to cool off for a while, read a good relationship book, and give her some time. Keep improving yourself but don't DO anything.

SS

<<whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap,whap>>

I is for "Is there hope for you?" D is for "Don't go on the date." I is for "Implement what you learn, Al." O is for "Often, we lead with our hearts when we should be using our heads." T is for "Take pride in small accomplishments."

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask why do we continually help Al when he continually undermines his and our efforts?

<small>[ November 08, 2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

AA:

I missed a bunch of this. But,

"...makes me feel terrible because I should be there helping them and protecting them"

So, why not "be there" by helping and protecting them? I don't know if you've paid the electric bill or not yet, but it would be the easiest thing in the world 2 CALL them, give them a credit card number, get the shutdown blown off in an instant that way and THEN tell your W you've done it AFTER you've done it.

SS: I'm edge-laminating another ebony 2x4 on2 the first, so it will have even more inertia! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

AA:

"PS: I got asked out on a date.....just a friendly movie and conversation.....do I go?"

Holy f***ing capeevy dust, AA!!! Are you really seriously asking this question? You must be some kind of Neanderf**k or something!

...um... no, don't go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2L ... what in the world is capeevy dust??

whippit,

It must follow along the same lines as..

"Holy Sheep Sh*t Batman, is he for real?"
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

committed

P.S. Gots to love those "nyms" of yours!

AA,

I can't NOT say it...

You must be your own worst enemy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You are sabotaging yourself Dude. Why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Always,
committed

AA,
When you get done reading all of this, rember it's friday, and try not to take it too personal.

And........it looks like the majority thinks the date is bad. Is that an understatement?

Ss

SS: I'm edge-laminating another ebony 2x4 on2 the first, so it will have even more inertia!

2Long: I'm really sorry man. I tried to get that 2x4 back to you without delay. I just had to use it longer than I thought on AA. I know I am trying to understand unconditional love and that I am not supposed to do anything for anyone if I want something in return. But I have to tell you, whacking AA with the 2x4 actually felt pretty good. I hope he is getting the point of all this.

AA, my wife actually thinks I'm seeing someone because of my attitude change. Little does she know it has nothing to do with ANYONE. I don't need anyone to make me feel this good about myself. But, I have never told her any of this. So she is just SEEING it. It very well may not save my marriage, but I am a better person. You will be too, if you take the advice and run with it.

Take care and hope you have a good weekend.

HW (formerly TORO)

You guys are hilarious......ever think of The MB Comedy Troupe?

Actually I knew it wasn't right! But I like to bounce things off of all of you, so I DON'T make a mistake. Some counselors I read actually tell you that the "jelousy" thing sometimes works....I was shocked. I would not be a good date anyway!! Anyway....quit hitting me ...I'm getting the point.....MEDIC!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Knowing my wife, it would definately nail the coffin shut......SEE I TOLD YOU SO.....Once a cheater always a cheater and you really CARE about me. I can hear it now.
Thanks Guys and ladies..

Come on guys......I have on the bullet proof vest....hit me with the bats.

Told woman that asked me out...thanks, but no thanks. I love my wife and it wouldn't be right. She said she understood and I felt GREAT!

I told my W awhile back (when she went on a date) that I would not be unfaithful to her. I went down that road and look what it got me! Told her their is only ONE woman I love.you!

So I will stick to that. I will be patient...may not hear from me for awhile. Laying low..will be gone all weekend anyway. So put the 2x4's and bats down....may need them next week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> HOPE NOT!!! Plus I have to study for finals and keeping busy anyway..not much time to think about things right now.

Hey I had an offer on my 1969 Firebird Convertible. Don't want to sell it, but reminds me of wife (she knows it is my pride and joy). I know she'll hate me selling it. We had so many great memories with her. It was going to be our house down payment <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Well lawyer fees are killing and many other things....car means nothing to me now. Anyway if I try to sell it now, judge will still MAKE me give 50% to W. So, what do I do? I have car and know what its worth. I asked w by email sometime back if it was ok to sell it and split the money with her and never heard anything back...but with winter approaching it will be harder to sell if wait longer. Do I wait patiently for her to call me in person then bring it up? She needs money too or should I wait until after D (if happens) so she can see a little reality? (financial stress........put down bats and give me your opinions please!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AlanArthur wants to have the car as the next reason to break RO. You need to go into plan B - leave her completely alone.

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AlanArthur:
She needs money too or should I wait until after D (if happens) so she can see a little reality?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mean to antagonize, but I'm not certain that it's her who needs to see a little reality.