Today, sick and tired, physically. I do think a seperation just makes all things more tiring. Doing well in the big pic, but tired of not enough change on h's part. I know patience is a virtue.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

I have gotten several positive comments this week from h, about cousneling and being with us again, but then he wavers... and his not enough dollars issue for him or for us, is wearing me thin.- I am not looking for an answer... i know I can file, but at this point, he still wouldn't have the money even if ordered to pay. He is trying, just not getting there.

Hope everyone is well.

Hugs, HONEY

Hi again Honey! Sorry to hear about being tired and sick today. I was in Houston last week and played golf with some customers. The weather was 80 and sunny! Maybe a little sunshine will brighten your day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The things you said about your H reminded me of a story I heard from an AA friend. He told his story about using people (yes, even his wife <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ) just so that he would be happier. Taking money, selling things, always making excuses, etc. It was all part of his game. In reality, his game was a way he could postpone or delay the inevitable. The bottoming out that will happen for all alcoholics who drink. Maybe your husband wants to play the father and husband for short periods so that his self esteem does not bottom out so quickly (of course this is all subconcious)? I don't know...

I do know his 'problem' will not get much better without some serious self realization. All of which is out of your control. I hope and pray for you and your children that this self realization happens soon.

Detachment does not mean you don't love your husband. It might just mean you are starting to love yourself again....

As always - IMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gib

Thanks Gibby,

Awesome advice. He does seem to get some esteem from being a wkend dad of sorts... insists that he has to have the kids every other wkend, which I worry about- but I think he is more responsible then.

He is working some, but not a steady job. He is angry when I mention money.

I am giving up, but not totally. What else can I do? Except be as kind as I can, with detachment.

I keep thinking he will go out work hard and be at least semi responsible like he used to be... or responsible like he used to be. Truth is, I made him work hard, and for that very reason he is angry at me.

Our conversation today including me suggesting that he deliver pizzas at night or something? I do think that may be beneath him, who knows? He claims to be trying hard.

I will not go on like this forever, and evenutally will file for D, and child support. I don't know how much they will order if he has no steady job. No tracable income.

Thanks for being here. I am considering a meeting tonight.

Houston finally got nicer these last few days after the rain let up, but the rain must of brought out lots of pollens? I don't know, not sure if it works that way. But I can't breath and sneeze constantly, sinus and allergies.

Thanks for your response, I can tell you understand alcoholism.

I know his ego is very precious , he seems so proud when he does do something for me, and has claimed he can't come home until he has a good job again. WHEN?

I have started to think like some posters sd a few days ago... as I have thought before and been told before...._ Perhaps, he can't come home unless in treatment and at least agreeing he has a serious alcohol problem.

Instead of my wonderful fun and romantic memories of him... more and more I see him drunk in my eyes when I think of him. It is sad to see someone you love like this.

Honey

Honey,

Good to hear from you. It is tough dealing with alcoholism and unless you've been there done that another person just can't understand.

I am having a hard time letting go even after all that I have been thru with WH. In alanon, some very wonderful ladies asked me if I loved him enough to let him go?

I don't know if you have ever been to open AA meetings but I have heard many stories from alcoholics just like what gibby told. Those in recovery can laugh about it now, but they talk about not really caring about anyone or anything while drinking. EVERY sober alcoholic that I talked to has told me to let my WH go (in love) so that he can hopefully hit his bottom where he is.

I know in my heart that I have to let WH go but can not find the words to tell him. I wish that I knew then (1st or 2nd time this happened) that I know now.

Honey, no matter what you do with your M, is really none of mine or anyone else's business on MB. I only hope to offer my experience strength and hope. I just don't think you can have the M you want and deserve with an alcoholic AA AH who still drinks. His thinking is distorted. You can still love him, just don't think you'll get a truley healthy Relationship.

((((((honey))))))) Hopefully this doesn't come across to hard on you. Maybe I need a lot more alanon to leave you alone . It's hard when it looks like someone is where you were a while back only to have it keep repeating itself.

God Bless,
D.

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

willgetthroughthis, I understand what you are saying.. and see this.

It is like my h has had ups and downs but all the while still drinking.

He is at a low right now, and perhaps drinking a bit less to pull himself out. But, he still drinks way more than he ever did at our home, out on his own.... at least it seems that way.

I know, I did not have what I wanted when he was here. I loved him and I had decided to live with his drinking and take advantage of all the wonderful sober moments, daytime, and after a certain hour at night, leave him alone.... that doesn't sound like much fun? right? I know.

I love his good side and who he is inside enough to deal with this,... but he has become such a bad person with the progression of the disease.. not bad inside, but bad actions to me... maybe these are bad inside, I just hate to say he is not a precious child of God, regardless of what he does.

I know he is not the h I need. I am getting truly stronger.

A good reflection of that is how my life is starting to look.

I have literally been so depressed, it has been nuts, but I am pulling out of it, without meds this time, and doing so much better.

My home is looking better, my body is getting back into shape, I am taking better care of me. Job outlook, time with kids, all of that is improving.

I think the first 2 months were the worst after finding out, well until christmas of last yr. This yr, it is all been there, dun that.

I am trying different ways of dealing with the same.

WH is seeing me pull away some. He is suppossed to come over and help me with my computer tomorrow, even bringing me ink, etc. and fixing it. Who knows maybe he will do another favor or two, the yard? I don't know.... I am quite sick still, or I wouldn't care... and so is my older son...

If he can't supply money, maybe he can do something?

I am tired.

I know some mbers have thrown up their hands... on me.

I am letting go, I hear you.

But I am not plan bing. I am plan aing with distance and without anger........... I never have done the best plan a until lately I guess. It takes letting go to do it for me.

Thanks for the reply. I will try to get to some open aa meetings, it has been a while. I look forward to my alanon meeting in the am.

Hugs, H

Hi Honey,

It sounds like you have come a long way and are doing things for you.
Please don't misunderstand me, I am not advocating plan A or B or DV, because we can detatch with love no matter what our marital situation.

I think in my case, Steve had told me that I had done a very good plan A even tho we were 1200 miles apart for most of the time, but in business together. When I told Steve about the addiction problem, and that we had gone thru this before, that he suggested separating myself and the kids from him then go to plan b.

Your not kidding last fall was the pits! I think our ddays are fairly close. I can look back now and still feel the terrible gut renching pain but can let it go. My life is not what I want it to be and I never thought that I would have to deal with all the things that has happened. Many would not have gone thru all that and at times I wonder why have I stayed. (I mean really why).

No matter what the outcome, I have become a better person and have grown. There are new friends that I am meeting in recovery that fill some of the slack (hugs & warm fuzzy feelings) that I am not getting in my M.

I like to go to AA speaker meetings to hear people's whole stories. If I relate to them, I go talk to them afterwards.

(((((((((((Honey))))))))))))

God Bless,

D.

Honey,
It was nice--surprising! to hear your voice. I do wish the best for you.

Re your H thinking delivering pizza is below him...is supporting his children in any way possible beneath him? I definitely don't want you to say this to him, but that's just stupid/failure think on his part. I know a Major in the Army who delivers pizza so he can support his kids by 2 diff wives. I'm sure he doesn't get the salutes he's used to....

I wish your H understood NECESSITY vs self-image.

It must be very frustrating for you when a man who is capable, chooses to find excuses and bad behavior not to be.

I hope you & the kids are feeling better.

Thanks , WillGetThruThis and Lor:

WGTT: Did not misunderstand, I fully appreciate your perspective... I think all the people last week or so who I voiced... to I am in plan A... quit telling me to leave to... who have gone away from posting to me... some b/c my hurting last week could not tolerate people telling me not to plan a, when I was trying so hard to! I did get a little nutty in my thinking, and I know I do this.

I get something in my mind, and I get angry when people go against it... and when people do not agree or support.... because it adds to my load and makes me confused when I thought I had clarity on my plans? Perhaps I took the postings too literally or personally, and as attacks against me. I can't go back and read right now, because I can't take being brought down.

But I do think I felt attacked and countered back. Wrong- I should of taken what I liked and left the rest, no reason to argue.

Just want you to know wgtt, that I am not thinking you are saying d, plan a or b. I see that you are a bit more experienced in living with this than I- though we have diff. h's- but that you have been stubborn too, like I, in trying to make a marriage to an addicted person work. It can work, but with personal sacrifice. You can as they teach us in alanon focus on the self and let that person spiral all by themselves, and reach their own conclusions about what they are doing wrong.... what else can we do? Shoving down his throat what he does wrong doesn't work, crying doesn't work, being depressed does 't work, begging doesn't work.

Kindness reciprocates kindness, that works.

Now enabling, another issue for me.... I am thinking this one backfires, for when I dont do things for my h- he is angry. Where is the line drawn btwn being a loving wife and enabling? Difficult. I do see some of my work in being self employed with my h really enabled him to keep drinking, me holding the business' together. Him doing irresponsible things, but me always smoothing things out.

I just see more clearly this week, perhaps from some of the board discussions and also my thinking... HoW SICK HE IS. I see it. I know it, I know I don't want it. BUt, I love him. It is so sad.

What I need in an H is not this, not an alcoholic- but a grown up. I am not so desperate for love that i will settle for this. I deserve more, I deserve special , kind , loving treatment. I used to get that from him. Haven't lately, and frankly can't go on for another yr . not getting it from him and being his wife.

I am to the point that sf with him is out of the question without some real R work. So is his waltzing in. I am fearful a D may happen, because he can't be who I need as an H, despite my love for him.

I can't fix him.

Lor, Hope you didn't mind my call- I had the card, and just wanted to say hello. YOu sounded so kind, like your pic and your posts. I appreciate your note and book. The book reminds me of who I used to be, and what I used to expect, not the settling person I have become. When I expect more, I get more. Funny how it works that way.

I have been using up boxes of kleenex. Thankfully no more fever. The kids are better than I am, and I am well enough to do some housework, so that is good.

WS, still may come by... for computer issues, but I am almost fearful or nervous to see him.

A yr. does heal a lot. I am becoming me again. T hank goodness.

THis board has been here thru the craziness and pain. It is nuts how much all this hurts.

I still love him, but he has to change to be my h again. NO more ow for now? But could it happen again, the way he is now? I think , yes.

Thanks for the posts and support.

Those that understand alcohlis m , thanks. I know others that don't and haven't lived with an alcoholic wonder about me, it does make one sick. You live with things you never imagined when someone you love is addicted.

I am starting to focus on me, thank goodness. One day at a time.

Thanks and Hugs, HONEY