New issue here. Thanks again to all who helped with my dilemma yesterday, this board is truly a remarkable helpful place. I'm hoping I can yet again get some much-needed insight here.

I gave my W a Plan B letter, but after my conversation with her yesterday, I'm worried that I left a gate open that I'm not sure I should have. I made it seem like I would be willing to "date" her were she to move into her new apartment next week (she still has a couple of days left before signing the final lease, so this weekend is rather crucial, though she's spending it with OM and not me, not a good thing but I couldn't prevent).

The problem with that is that I know that agreeing to date her while she was in her own place and STILL working with the OM and seeing him daily, this would just enable her to continue the A AND continue to see me indefinitely, or at least until she could make a decision. This is not what I want.

Sure, if I could be reassured that she was no longer seeing OM, that's one thing, but if she were to get the place she would not be able to quit her job (too risky with rent and bills due) and I know that she and OM would continue on, even though she may express interest in seeing me as well. It just allows her to continue seeing us both, and that's not what I ever wanted.

How do you suggest I handle that one? I realize that I may not see her again until Monday, AFTER she has signed her 1-year lease on the apartment and it's too late. So I need to do something sooner. I'm thinking perhaps sending her a brief e-mail reaffirming my Plan B better, and letting her know that I won't be able to see her if she moves to the apartment might be a good idea. She'll at least check her e-mail at work on Monday morning before she signs her apartment lease (I hope). I don't want her to sign the lease under any false impression that we'd still be seeing each other once she moved out.

I'm fairly sure that if she was under the impression she could continue a relationship with us both, she'd do it, if only so all of her ENs are met. The entire point of Plan B is for her to discover if OM can meet all EN for her. If he can, then I wish her well.

She did ask that if she moves out on Monday, would I help her with that, and I did say I would. I can be a good guy and do that. But once her things are out the door, and she's on her own, I think what's best for my well-being, as well as what's best for her to see what life would be like without me, would be NC at all.

Thoughts on how I should handle this one? I've got a day or so to decide.

ALS

Plan B is NO contact...that would include NO dating. No contact is just that....no contact of any kind (unless you have children and it is child related contact).

Right Veterans?

committed

NC means NC!!

Yeah, agreed there, I understand that Plan be is strict NC.

I guess what I was really asking was, considering I was continually being hurt by the A with the OM, I shouldn't revert to Plan A while she is in her own place if I feel I can't take it, right?

Also, would sending that email be a wise thing to do, just to make sure she understands that signing that lease on Monday will mean that NC will begin? I just feel that the fact that she may believe I'd be willing to date her while she is still seeing OM may sway her decision.

Thoughts?

ALS,
I wouldn't send the email. Can you say ultimatum?
You sent plan b letter so she knows this already.
As far as planA, it's about changing yourself for yourself, not changing for anyone else. Hopefully she'll see the changes but maybe she won't. NC means NC, translation= no dates, especially with OM in picture.

That makes sense. It is an ultimatum of sorts, isn't it? Very true.

I wish I'd never given her the idea that dating might be a possibility though. Hopefully she doesn't sign a lease with that thought in mind, that she still isn't giving me up by doing so.

Thanks for your opinion.

ALS

als,

If you gave her a plan b letter outlining no contact, if she then thinks it's ok to date and see OM, then that is her misunderstanding. You can genlty remind her about NC short and sweet and email or convo what ever right there.

Have you had a session with one of the Harley's? I found it very helpful to have a clear direction. I havn't followed your posts so you may have already.

D.

I have yet to have a session with them, since I haven't seen any indication on her part yet that she is willing to give us a chance. If she went in that direction, I think I'd try and suggest a phone session for each of us seperately with the Harleys. At least one, to get some things out there. But I'm not going to go there if she is

From what I've seen the Harleys advise Plan A continue as long as possible, and I honestly do feel like I can't take that anymore (though I'm still hurting a lot this weekend, knowing it's her first weekend out of the house and she's spending it sleeping with OM, from what I know). But at least that pain will dull when NC starts, today it's still very tough on me.

I agree with your thoughts though, I will leave it alone, if after she resettles, she attempts contact, I will remind her of NC unless A ends completely.

ALS

ALS:

You said yourself that you haven't spoken 2 either of the Harleys, the "authors" of plan B. They don't take recommendations of going 2 plan B lightly. You're just out of the gate here. I'm betting they'll recommend you put off plan Bing her for a LONG time! SH told me "so, you just found out this year???" when it had been 7 months since D-day for me. He was implying I had a lot of plan A work 2 do before considering plan B.

And so your 2uestion: Screw NC, ALS. It's not 4 you. It's s2pid. I hope the harshness of my words aren't lost on you. Your other thread gave me a lot of reasons for feeling optimistic about your sitch. In any case, you haven't had time enough 2 plan A your W, and now you seem 2 want 2 push her off the fence with both hands and feet, right in2 OM's bed? Sure, she might be there, but your last convo with her showed: a) that she'll take a very positive memory of you with her, and b) that you can pull of one helluva plan A if you give it some more TIME.

That is the advice I am getting from others as well.

The problem is that her continued lying and all the time she is spending with OM is increasing. What have been major LBs for me have been the fact that I could have a great talk with her where it looked like progress was made, and she could turn around and 5 minutes later go right back to the OM. Things like that are destroying my love for her. And the reason I considered Plan B was just because the Harleys warn that it must start before your spouse LBs you to the point of bankruptcy. And that's just how it was starting to feel to me. Maybe my LBnk was already low to begin with. I don't know.

I know my other thread made it sound optimistic. But she's been like that through this whole thing. We'll have a breakthrough conversation and then she'll be off to the OM minutes later. And like I said, this weekend I'm 99% sure than PA went full blown, that makes it even harder to see her now, especially after she lied again before leaving and said no PA was planned at all (though her email clearly showed otherwise). Her constant lies to me are total LBs.

However, other seasoned MB'ers are also telling me to try to continue on with a Plan A, even after the separation. I'll definitely need some advice and guidance on how that can be done successfully. In spite of everything that has happened, I do still love my wife today.

Thanks.

ALS

....all the more reason to get a session with Steve or Jennifer.

I apologize, ALS, for not being familiar with all your details. It's possible that you went to Plan B too quickly, although I believe that physical/legal separation is the prime time. But this opinion presumes that you've done an adequate Plan A.

Yes, it's tough Plan A'ing and having your heart ripped out at the same time. But I don't sense in your posts that your bank is dangerously low. To the contrary, I sense you justifiably want to end the pain - a pain so great because you still have so much love left.

For now, I recommend you maintain no contact while figuring out whether to go back to Plan A. This decision should be after reviewing whether you made all your improvements and demonstrated those improvements.

As hard as it may, don't dwell on whether the A has become a PA or not.

How about doing a 180? Modified planB? PlanA if there is contact initiated "by her not you". Be a little myterious maybe. Unavailable at times. No LB's.

I think I agree with moving4ward, doesn't seem as if you're quite ready for a full blown Plan B, but can't keep up the Plan A at full force either. Step back a few paces and let her do the contacting. For one thing, while she's out of the house, you won't know whats she's doing all the time. IF you control your imagination that she's doing something all the time, which she can't be doing...then you'll find some breathing space. Deposit whenever the chance comes up and avoid the busting whenever possible. jmho

editted to add...but no dating while the affair is continuing on any level.

<small>[ November 10, 2002, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: just a wifey 2002 ]</small>

Thanks to the 3 of you for your responses, you always seem to make so much sense. I read them a few times over and it really all does seem right on the money.

I guess I'm surprising myself with the amount of love I have for her. I am almost certain there was no PA until AFTER d-day, and that PA just started this weekend, after a Plan A with a few LB's in the middle (my fault, couldn't control myself). So given the fact that my WW actually intensified her A after it was in the open, I'm amazed I am still willing to keep trying. But I am.

I think I will take your advice on all counts then. While I do feel that I could have learned to have a more solid Plan A (if I just learned to shut it all out), her being here wasn't helping with that, and it was draining my LB. I expect she'll be moving out officially tomorrow, and I'll help her with that.

After she gets all her things and settled, I will keep NC on my part, and only talk when she initiates, then deposit if possible. I have been keeping busy and started hitting the gym again, so I am sure I won't be around all the time if she even attempts to contact.

My worst fear is that her next contact will be in a week or so to file the Dv papers the OM is urging her to file. We agreed we'd go no fault since we have no arguments with finances. Would it be out of line for me to ask her to please just not rush into filing anything, that she has time to think about it still? I just hope she doesn't rush into it to somehow get closure on everything. I know OM wants me out of the picture completely, mostly for his own comfort, so he can feel better about himself I'm guessing.

So, any suggestions on my Plan A during this week when she's packing and moving her things out? Do I help move stuff into her new place if she asks?

I still plan NC from my end regardless, once she has settled.

And thank you for confirming what I already knew had to be -- NO dating while OM is still in picture. I don't see how that will ever happen anyway, she needs her job more than ever being on her own, and OM is at her workplace, so I doubt I could ever be convinced OM was out of picture unless she left her job and moved back home.

ALS

<small>[ November 10, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS, you might want to read Five Things You Can Start Doing Right Away To Turn The Tide In Your Favor.

Good luck.