I talked to FWH this weekend about some of what he was thinking during his A. (11 months ago). Here is something I gained from that conversation:

During the entire A, he was rooting for me to win. Sound hypocritical? Maybe so, until you look at it in the perspective that had he wanted HER to win, he could have easily left. He didn't. And I had no idea about the A until it was all over. I asked him if I ever physically repulsed him at any point. He said "No". (an excuse one of his friends is using for an A).

I proceeded to inform him that in the future if I was in a competition he needed to tell me so that I would have a fair chance at winning. It's not a fair fight when only 1 contestant is playing! and only one contestant (OW) even knows there's a fight!!

For BSs, if your WS is still hanging around, deep down, they probably want YOU to win too! Give it your best shot!

During the entire A, he was rooting for me to win.
Win what? Him?
Did he tell you (before the affair), "I am going to have an affair. You are going to "compete" for my love and affection and whoever gives me the most will "win"".

My Dearest Chris,

Did my post not come through clear? I think I answered all of your questions in it. Of course he was wanting me to win "him". Is that mature? Is that unselfcentered? Is that signs of a true man? No of course not. But then again mature, unselfcentered adults do not have affairs. Was he being childish? Of course. Was he playing games that married mature adults shouldn't play? YES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I would imagine I just described 99% of the WSs out there! You've totally missed my point. You've taken what should have been a positive post, and made into somthing negative. Thanks from all of us BSs for your wonderful support. (No sarcasm there!)

Why would he HOPE you would win something that he had complete control over? I don't get it. There was no need for you to "win" anything if that was what he wanted.

Was this some kind of a game?

Jam,
I am glad that you won, too. I understand what you are saying, and I can attest that WS's are extremely confused and yes, self-centered. As Harley writes, an A is like an addiction. It certainly was in my case, and I think that in our hearts many of us want and know the spouse should be number one. SAdly, it is often times too late for many of us WS's, as it is thus far with me.

Many other BS's here have told me they felt second best. Perhaps your husband's words let you know that you always WERE number one with him (deep down, i.e. he knew he was behaving so poorly) , even if he didn't act like you were. I don't know if this helps, or makes sense. Just my thoughts, for what they're worth.
H_P

My H told me the kind of the same thing. He never wanted to leave, that's why he didn't. He wanted to stay with me but, he was starving for attention.

OW was dishing out attention a truck full at a time. He was like a drug addict and she was the dealer. M H wanted to be the Center of MY attention but, didn't know how to ask for it. He said he never had to try with her, she was just always willing. He got addicted to not trying, just being able to show up and there it was. He had to do very little for her to shower this affection on him.

I wonder if our H's had the classic "cry for help" A's. It was never about the OP, just what the OP was willing to dish out. They really wanted all that stuff from us and really only us.

I am glad you Won too. I sometimes do the "mine, mine, mine" chant when it comes to my H.

I'm glad to see my thread is not totally being wasted. Hopeful and bearcub get it. Maybe I need more info from Chris and Melody to actually grasp where they are coming from.

And the game scenario was the way I presented the discussion to him. Using a game as an example to describe the A. And bearcub knows my situation well, even without a signature line. She trully knows where I'm coming from as her H and my H had similar type As.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why would he HOPE you would win something that he had complete control over? I don't get it. There was no need for you to "win" anything if that was what he wanted.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Call him the "trophy". Call her team A, and call me team B. Team A is running plays, scoring, etc. Team B doesn't even seem to care. Doesn't even seem to notice there's a trophy at stake. Isn't running any plays. Isn't trying to score. Does that description help?

Basically it was a good ol' break down of communication. Partially due to trying to cram to much into our lives, leaving no time for each other or the marriage.

The "game" scenario is just one way of describing what happened. I'm sorry some readers are getting hung up on the flippancy of the terminology I used.

I like how you explained this. Another way of looking at it is being picked for a team.

My H really wanted to be on my team but, I didn't seem real interested in him. Along comes OW and she really wanted him on her team. And, she made sure he knew how much she wanted him. He kept looking my way to see if I was going to pick him and since he felt like that wasn't going to happen, he went with Team OW.

As soon as I showed interest in him, he dumped Team OW and came running to my team, which is where he always wanted to be.

Thanks Hopeful for pointing out about not being second best. When I wrote out this explanation, the light blub came on that I have never been second choice. I have always been first choice, I just didn't give my H enough attention for him to realize he was first choice either.

Great Post Jamup - It has sure helped me today. You are always there when I need a "pick me up".

Jamup...Lighten up on Chris a little. You might want to do a little research about his situation before you rip on his post. (here's a hint, see how low his member # is?? He has been through this more than ANYONE on this board).

I'm not trying to speak for him, but I would interpret his post differently. I think he might be wanting you to see the absurdity in what your husband said. And instead of you telling him that the "next time" you're in a competition to let you know, maybe you should have told him that marriage isn't about competition and if he wants you to "compete" then maybe the prize isn't worth the effort....

That being said, I do feel for what you are going through and hope it works out for the best.

Jam -- Back to your original concept, I, too was always rooting for my S to "win". By "win" I meant demonstrate something, show me whatever it was I needed, to give me reason to dump this stupid lifestyle and go back to what I really wanted.
The funny thing is, that finally happened. She sat me down one night and asked me what was wrong. I told her it was work and careers and blah blah blah, and eventually we talked about us. I still didn't say anything about my As, but I could feel her doing and saying the things I needed. I started coming "down" from my own A high, and decided she had won after all. There was a chance for happiness with this woman.
Three months later, I was trying to practice what I now know was a Plan A, and she confessed to her As, including one that happened right after than talk while I was gone for a month on a trip.

So, yeah, she won. And I totally get what you mean by her being here shows she hopes I "win." She wants me to prove this is a place where she can love and be loved. Only I'm not competing with the OM. He's history. I'm competing with her desire to be on her own, to be away from this nasty place we've created.

Tee it up. Snap the ball. Throw the first pitch. I'm in.

jamie - thanks for sharing.

While many WS may have had the same mindset as yours, I know pretty certainly mine only was interested in one winner - herself. But guess what? I'll claim to be the only winner of the four adults involved because I've progressed SO far - due mostly to this forum - while the others have stagnated or regressed. Oh well.

Hey boomer! Wanna share any BW chat? DCScandals@yahoo.com

You've totally missed my point.
I guess I did.

You've taken what should have been a positive post, and made into somthing negative.
Sorry you perceived it/I made it out that way. My point was, I wasn't quite sure what YOUR point was with this post.

It looks as if it is to encourage others with ws?

Jamup -- You are very lucky that your H's A ended before you knew about it and you did not have to endure the pain and humiliation of TRULY competing with OW (willingly or not). I think that perhps those of us who have had to deal with WSs who flip/flop back and forth between us and the OP have a very different perspective and association with the whole "competition" analogy.

It is great that you and your H are working things out and wonderful that despite his mistakes it was always YOU that he wanted. Perhaps unwittingly your choice of words hit a raw nerve for those of us who have not been as fortunate as you. Our former MC told me about some clients of his, the H was having an A and told his wife that he "was trying to decide which of them loved him more". She looked him in the eye and said "well I can settle that for you right now, it ain't me!". (I do believe the MC was trying to send me a strong hint about what he thought I should do w/WH!!!) Don't take anyone's responses badly, we all see things through the lens of our own experience.

Jamup: I liked reading about this different concept of the situation your H had. Any new info on how they might interpret what's going on is interesting to read and think about.

If you, or any others read my post on GQII (my H ended with me today...)I'd appreciate any input on whether or not my H could view it from this way, or another way I haven't heard of yet. However, my H isn't at home and has shown no interest in me in 4 months, so hard to do anything to 'win the competition'.

Also, does anyone out there think that perhaps my H is just taking longer than most H's to have a 'turnaround' or is it just a lost cause. I have Plan A'd, I'm doing Plan B to the best of my knowledge..I'd told him I'm moving on but the door is always open, but no interest. I'm so confused and ready to give up now I am interested in any new insight..from BS's, or WS's.

You didn't indicate how long it took for you and your H to reconcile (or had he never left?). I'd be interested. Also, you said if H's are hanging around, perhaps they are still interested, but we have kids so my H really only hangs around because he picks them up/drops them off. No hanging around just for me, I'm afraid.

Anyway, any new info or insights would be appreciated. Thanks!

wearyinwisconsin, thank you for the "other" perspective on my post. That's exactly the explanation I was needing.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Don't take anyone's responses badly, we all see things through the lens of our own experience.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Didn't mean to take responses badly. Chris was the only one that responded for a long time, and it was kind of discouraging to see the only response taken so negatively with no explanation as to why.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My point was, I wasn't quite sure what YOUR point was with this post.

It looks as if it is to encourage others with ws?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've read many many posts from participants here whose WSs are still at home, but they are still entangled in the A. I've read many posts where the couple is trying to reconcile, but the BS can't seem to cross hurdles. Well, I felt like having this conversation with my FWH helped me jump a hurdle, and I wanted to share the experience in case it might help others. This thread doesn't really apply to WSs who have moved out despite strong Plan As by the BS. I have no experience in that realm.

To clear confusion, let me show what my sig line might look like if I knew how to add one:

WH - 30
BW - 28
Married - 9 yrs
Kiddos - D 6yrs, D 5yrs
OW - 43
EA - on the job, began 11/01
Kissing/petting (about 15 min total) 12/01
A ended 12/01 when OW pushed for sex and wanted him to move in with her
D-day - 12/25/01 (yes, Christmas), A over
FWH - remorseful, romantic, working overtime making sure he keeps me happy
BW - working hard to meet ENs and keep lines of communication open

The Sig line is added on the profile screen. I had to change ours, we are both a little older now. Another birthday has come and gone.

Bearcub