I don't have the emotional stamina to make it through the holidays for a second time without my WW so I'm throwing in the towel even though I don't want this D. I dropped some major LB's in our last conversation so my question is, should I try to patch things up even though final D is looming? I want her to be happy and am afraid I'm making her feel guilty because of my sadness...Help!

Litchfield, a divorce is an extremely stressfull event...add to that adultry and you've got one of the most stressfull things out there any person could go through. There are a few things that top it...but not many. My H and I did our best to keep things on friendly terms and I think that's what eventually brought us back together.

I would simply send an apology to your STBX and let her know that it's never your intention to hurt her, you're just really saddend that it has come to this. That way she's not operating under some assumption that you're never going to forgive her or you're eternally angry or something.

My H and I lost everything in a tornado 3 years ago. We were in the basement clutching on to each other and our 10 month old son when it hit. Our sons adoption had been finalized at noon that day. 6 months later I started having a crush on the OM. After a year H and I seperated etc etc... Oh, we also built a house in that time...which most people say is another highly stressfull event for any couple to make it through. Well...both hubby and I agree we'd take another tornado and build 10 more houses over going through the pain of adultry and divorce again. It's monumental...so don't beat yourself up if you can't grin and bare it all the time.

it looks to me that you are not entirely sure about what you actually want.

you dont want her to be guilty - but she's the WW

you want to throw in the towel - but you don't want a divorce yourself

you LBed - but contemplate patching things up

My advice is: get your actions in line with what you want. now, that may be easier said but done. But: you're at a crossroads now. one road goes to divorce, the other to something unknown (maybe divorce too, but maybe not). Which way do you take? if you're over & out, then go for a divorce. but you should be aware that if you divorce now, that a lot of feelings of guilt/anger and love will be left in you - which will continue to work their bad cocktail in you.

Nick 123-

You're right in the points you've made with the exception that what I WANT (reconciliation) is not reality at this time. For whatever reason, my WW doesn't feel comfortable coming back into the relationship even though she seems to be very unhappy with her present circumstances. I've tried to be patient and see how things would develop but I've become convinced that she could continue on with separtion and NC indefinitely and I'm not good with that.

Hope4future, thanks again for your insight. I think I will send her a card after the agreement is signed this week and clear the air as I'm certainly not under any illusions that I'm blameless in this whole mess.

-G

allow me to disagree - again, you mix up what you think you can achieve with what you really want! you WANT reconciliation, therefore act accordingly! whether it's realistic is beside the point. as long as you know what you want, you have a clear road map to follow - it's called plan A. and hey, it works. mostly.

Nick

Nick-

I can't help but smile at your persistence/optimism and am happy that things are going well for you! I've left a few things out of my story that might make things a little clearer for you. For one, I tried the "NC with OM or else" ultimatum several months ago with little success. My WW REFUSES to give up contact with OM's circle of friends, whom she works with. (Not sure of her contact with OM, I think he's in process of moving out of state)

Perhaps the biggest obstacle to our R has been my filing for D several months ago on the grounds of A. My WW was HORRIFIED when she found out I had a PI following/recording her contact with OM. I guess what I'm saying is that I screwed up my chances of R by hiring the PI and now we're at the point where we've agreed to all terms of a settlement of my charges out of court. She's already taken her stuff out of the house and as soon as we sign off on the agreement this week, she'll get her equity out of the house and that will be that.

litchfield...to answer your post question...Yes, it is possible. Maybe not easy, but possible. Actually, from what you've posted here, it sounds as if you've already started on taking a civil path.

I don't know if your marriage could be saved, I don't even know if it should be saved. ONLY you and your W can decide this.

Wherever your healing path leads, may you find happiness and love and contentment.

I don't have the emotional stamina to make it through the holidays for a second time without my WW so I'm throwing in the towel
??? You can't make it through another holiday season without her yet you are divorcing her to be without her this holiday season???

even though I don't want this D.
Then why are you divorcing her?

. I dropped some major LB's in our last conversation so my question is, should I try to patch things up even though final D is looming?
Yes you should try to patch it up. But do it ala Plan A.

what I WANT (reconciliation)

Everyone comes here to MB in great pain and full of hurt & grieg. Very, very understandable. They want everything to get over immediately. they want the
magic bullet" to have everything beautifula gain, RIGHT NOW!. It don't happen.

If your divorce goes through, is that gonna make you happy? No, you don't want it.
If your wife came back, right now, full of remorse, etc. would you be happy? No. You still have to deal with everything that happened.

I tried the "NC with OM or else" ultimatum several months ago with little success.
What was the "or else?" You gave an ultimatum but didn't live up to it? MB is teaching you to do what you say and say what you do. No head games. You are supposed to show you are learning and applying principles which will make for a trusting/fulfilling relationship for BOTH partners.

One thing about ultimatums. Most people use them to get their way (they expect for xxx to happen, but don't really want or are not prepared for yyy to happen).

You can Plan A/Plan B just as long as you want to, divorce or no divorce. But the key to everything is being consistent.

For whatever reason, my WW doesn't feel comfortable coming back into the relationship even though she seems to be very unhappy with her present circumstances.
Part of Plan A is making the ws BE COMFORTABLE with you in everything. Then when the [censored] hits the fan (the afair ends), you are someone she can come back to because you have been good to her and made her feel "safe" around you.

am afraid I'm making her feel guilty because of my sadness
Some things you can't help (her feeling guilty).
Some things you can help (your sadness). It's okay to be sad, angry, upset, mad, terrified, etc. about what is happening. BUT, don't do it around your ws.

My WW was HORRIFIED when she found out I had a PI following/recording her contact with OM.
She wasn't horrified someone was following her, she was horrified you found out!

<strong>
For one, I tried the "NC with OM or else" ultimatum several months ago with little success.
</strong>
that's a toughie, I know. In my case I endured 6 months of that medecine. I got finally to the point where *I* couldnt take it anymore - therefore my ultimatum was dead serious, like "NC or no contact with ME" (called plan B). Now, the plan A/B thing really works well. Which plan at what time depends on you. If you still have 'love' left, a desire left for her - then it's A. if you really reached the end of the road from your perspective, and to protect the last little love left in you for her, then it's B. Not hard science I'm afraid, but listen to your heart, then you'll know.

<strong>
My WW REFUSES to give up contact with OM's circle of friends, whom she works with. (Not sure of her contact with OM, I think he's in process of moving out of state)
</strong>

Well, if he moves - great! dont worry about OM circle of friends too much - it's about her & OM. Your goal is no contact, so if there's no contact (or if he's moving), then that's a joy.

<strong>
My WW was HORRIFIED when she found out I had a PI following/recording her contact with OM. I guess what I'm saying is that I screwed up my chances of R by hiring the PI and now we're at the point where we've agreed to all terms of a settlement of my charges out of court.
</strong>
hang on there.... why was she horrified? because you found out?? is the cop guilty because he catches a bank robber in his act??? nonsense. it was your right - and you were right. let me guess - her horror comes from looking at herself in the mirror and from seeing to what she has become!

How you handled it from there, I dont know. Typcial reaction (in fact, my reaction had I not found this site!) would be to engage in speedily divorce proceedings. I beleive that's a wrong turn, for all the reasons mentioned by Harley. You ought to give it a chance, especially if you have children (have you?). Cool down. you can't lose anything by stalling & giving it a chance.

Nick (and Chris)

Jeez, I'm REALLY confused now. Even though we've been on this merry go round for a year now, I have plenty of love left for my WW so a plan A is in order? I felt like I tried that all summer with little luck.

I also see from the post from Chris that I've been very inconsistent with my actions. My getting the PI was successful in exposing and breaking up (I think) the affair, but retaining a attorney and filing for D at that time was a BIG mistake. I used the threat of a court hearing (with the OM and all of WW's friends testifying) to get her to agree to MC which, surprise surprise, wasn't too successful. I think I'm going to offer my services as a model of how NOT to execute a R with your WS.....

You need to decide what you want, then do what you need to go about it.

If you want a divorce, then do it. Be friendly (business like?) in dealing with her.
If you DON'T want a divorce, then you must execute Plan A to the best of your ability. If you make a mistake (LBs, arguing, yelling, blaming, etc.) then tell her your messed up and you will fix it. THEN FIX IT and don't let it happen again.

<strong>Even though we've been on this merry go round for a year now, I have plenty of love left for my WW so a plan A is in order?
</strong>
yep! you got it.

<strong>
I felt like I tried that all summer with little luck.
</strong>
then re-check your actions. compare what people do here in plan A mode. stop the threats of "come to MC or else I'll shame you in court" - surely a recipe for disaster. once you *know* that you are doing a good plan A, without LBing, threatening, blaming, then you're on the right track. And then - beleive me - results will come in. They always do.
This all only of course if you want to go down that route, ie. if you still have love left for your wife.

Nick and Chris-

Thanks again for your encouragement and insight. Probably the biggest reason I haven't been able to carry out a successful Plan A can be described from Harvey's article on Plan/Plan B.

"In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B..."

My WW was having a ongoing affair so I asked her to leave and went to Plan B. She was/is having her EN's met by OM?/Friends and definitely doesn't seek out contact with me, so I don't have much of a chance for Plan A. I've tried it under the auspices of discussing our agreement, but she's wise to it and gets stressed out very easily. She's so fragile emotionally that meaningful conversation/contact is difficult at best.

Anyway, thanks for your concern and prayers!

My WW was having a ongoing affair so I asked her to leave and went to Plan B
Did you give her a Plan B letter and explain what/why you were doing it (Plan B)?

so I don't have much of a chance for Plan A.
Are you in Plan A or Plan B? Can't do both at the same time.

so I don't have much of a chance for Plan A
That means when you ARE able to do it, you can be simply wonderful in it!

I've tried it under the auspices of discussing our agreement, but she's wise to it
What does she "get wise" to?
Remember, Plan A is to be nice to her and fulfill her needs *as best you can) because it is the right thing to do and not simply because you want her back.

Chris

(1) No...there was no letter. Only a note around 12/01 where I asked her to leave my ring if she insisted on seeing the OM. She left the ring....

(2) I've tried to do a Plan A, even though we've been separted for a year and have little contact. She's having her EN's met by OM?/Friends.

(3)I agree and will do so in the future.

(4)She gets wise to me.....pressuring her to come home.....

As I've mentioned before, I volunteer to be the poster boy for how NOT to R. Fortunately, I've been blessed with caring friends and family so I know I can get through this. It's just that my WW shows up in my dreams on a regular basis...Sometimes I think I'm destined to wonder aimlessly for the rest of my days, just getting by. I need closure

I have a update....It was confirmed this morning that the OM has been out of the picture for a long time and in fact no longer lives in this state. I LB'd last week and sent her a card apologizing for my accusations. Where I'm at is that WW's A is over but she's still hurt, confused, lonely and not wanting much contact with me. I want to be there for her but don't know how to go about it.... Help!

I agree with the Harley quote re plan A and B... however read again: there he says too that it is about "negotiating without LBing the separation from the lover" or something. this means specifically that you need to give it some time - going to plan B instantly doesnt work I think. Rather, it's super-powerful after a plan A only. and the plan A continues, maybe with an ongoing affair, up to the point where you just cant, or close before. so, plan B simply as a "punishment" is not the thing to do. do plan A, to negotiate with her to cease contact, for a while. by negotiating I mean not shouting or pressing - but simply let her know *how* you feel when you know she is in contact etc.

just read your latest update
well done!
so, it's definately plan A I suggest

Nick-

Thanks for the advice and yes, I'm going with Plan A every chance I get. Any ideas on how to "not pursue" and pull off a Plan A at the same time? I expect the next time I hear anything from my wife will be when my attorney tells me that she's agreed to the out of court settlement. Don't know how I can slow this whole thing down and still keep my word to her but I'm hoping for a miracle.

try this: send a daily message to her; either fax, leave a note, send a card, txt by mobile phone... whatever. content of the message: avoid anything like "I want you to ..." or "come back" or even "... or else". simply say - "I'm thinking of you", or some other up-beat message. dont go silent, make yourself heard, just little balloons saying "hey, I'm here, I'm thinking of you, and I still see a future, I still v. much like you".

Tell me if that works.

N