Links to previous posts that may be of interest:

My Story/Start Of Plan A
Plan A / WW Leaves For Weekend, PA Begins
Plan A / WW Moves To Her Own Apartment

Since so many of you have been incredibly helpful and insightful, I thought I'd share some random questions with you about my current situation, things that I may have not shared before but may be more helpful in explaining things to you about what happened to my marriage, and why my WW might be acting this way.

After spending the weekend in a hotel before moving out, I noticed that my WW, in an email she sent to OM, apologized to him for her emotional state the night before. Obviously she was very torn, upset, or confused and he is hearing a lot about it (he has been for the past month, I imagine). Do you think these sort of outburts and bouts of depression will continue for her? Will OM be where she directs a lot of her depression over leaving me, her situation, etc? Will this be a LB for OM over time?

My WW is pressuring the OM to commit to her, though she's not in so many words saying she needs a SERIOUS relationship (she promised him sex even if they just wanted to be friends) but she wanted to make sure he was interested in her. His response to her is that he's got a lot of walls up around him, but he is slowly letting her take them down and he is falling for her. Is this a sign that he is reluctant to commit right now or just a true warming of their relationship?

Early on, when EA and minor PA (kissing) started, OM told my WW he thought she seemed a little "needy" (very true) and she didn't even let that bother her. If I ever told her that, she'd probably have not spoken to me for a week! OM also refused her advances at first, said he was pursuing another girl and wasn't sure he wanted to get involved. Why would my WW continue to pursue a guy that treats her so badly?

Speaking of OM, my WW has always been anti-smoking. Likes non-smoking sections in restaraunts, always loved the fact that I never smoked and she never had either. So, why is it that she is so into the OM when he is a full-blown SMOKER??!?!

OM continues to reassure my WW that she is winning him over and he is falling for her more each day. She has always been the pursuer with this A, in fact, after I first wrongly confronted OM via email, she claims he felt bad and he even wrote me and told me to take her back. Of course, I did this, but my WW continued to pursue him until they are now involved in full blown PA. Is this a sign that she's going to expect a LOT of support from him now that she is losing me?

My WW moved from very far away to be here, from any friends or family. She recently made new friends at work (including the OM) but these are her only circle of friends right now. Will this limited amount of people for her to turn to in times of need or loneliness likely make it harder for her to cope in her own place, on her own?

Do you think that if my WW sees the OM all day at work, then expects to spend every night with him as well (in person or on the phone or whatever), that will help or hurt the A? I guess a lot of that depends on how much time the OM is willing to give her.

I guess today, now that my WW is just about moved out, I'm not so much trying to Plan A as much as I'm trying to understand. I know the easy to answer to all this stuff would be "She is in the fog, nothing makes sense!" but if anyone's got any other insight into any of this behavior and what I might expect to result from the above mentioned situations (perhaps those who have been through it before), I'd love to hear it.

Tonight I see her again, maybe for the last time for a while, as she's coming back to pick up what should be the rest of her things. Will Plan A.

ALS

Als,

From a female perspective, it sounds like your W is out to set herself up to fail and she knows it. Why? hm...... her depression may have something to do with it. I saw both my H and his sisters do the samething, even his parents. The fact is that the nicer you are the worse they get......until they fall down so hard that they finally admit to the truth. So the worse the OM shows himself to be the more she will pursue. Crazy but true..... You know what? The whole time they will also tell you that they know what they are doing but act very irrationally. At least that is what happened in my case.

For me I had to learn to protect myself. Went to plan B and then he started wanting to come back within a short period of time. The problem is that it was too early and I am too much a softy (not if you ask the WS or OW though)...... Then I would see that the A was still going on and he would be out on the street again...... this back and forth stuff went on longer than he had been out of the house. This really upset me. Drawing up personal boundaries was a lifesaver for me. I didn't do a real good plan B but knew how to kick it into action after the false recovery thing happened a few times. Yea, this old brain of mine is stubborn and even though a lot of MBers were helping me....... I just had to learn the hard way. LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The point is use this time to prepare yourself and strengthen yourself. Eventually her real side will show to those new found friends and let them LB on her. I don't think those friends would be willing to change to be accustom to her likes and dislikes. Then where will she be?

JMHO,
L.

Yes, actually at first I thought, I just want her back, that's good enough for me to think she wants to work on us. Now I'm thinking, the longer she's gone, and the further into the A she is getting, the more I'm going to need from her IF she wants to come back.

It's sad, I know. She may have not been happy in our M but all she had to do was voice that to me, since D-Day I have learned SO much and could have started much sooner if she'd just have said something. We could be learning together right now instead of me learning while she goes out and screws around with OM. At one point since D-Day, she even admitted to me that maybe she IS depressed clinically and needs help with it, but that was the only time she ever mentioned it. She still refuses to get help.

I think a lot of it might be the fear of talking to a stranger about it. She'd rather confide in another man than see a doctor. How I wish I could convince her to see a specialist, just talk to someone, to see what might be done. I'd even go with her if she wanted. And maybe that could be the first step towards recovery for us. She's in the fog of never thinking she could be happy with me again, and that we're ruined forever because of this. The whole "we're too far gone now, there's no coming back from this" line of thinking.

So yeah, I'm starting to protect myself from future hurt. I don't think I'd take her back unless I was SURE she was dedicated to making us better. Now, I'm going to need a lot of reassurances from her if she ever asks to come back. But again, I feel she's rather stubborn and it would take some really dire circumstances for her to swallow her pride and ask to come back. I just don't see my WW doing that. She'd probably want me to BEG first, or at least keep asking, just so she wouldn't have to admit she was wrong to leave in the first place.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

ALS

Als,

You must already be tired with my responses so I'll bump this up so you can get more responses. ok?

Just to interject, my WS refused to see a counselor also. He talked with Steve once and didn't like him. Our MC is too far away or at least that is one of his excuses. So I told him go find another Ic/Mc anyone just go find someone........ well he went through our insurance listing and picked a woman counselor. Never told me her name (I found out later) and met with her at least once.

She pretty much told him what I had been saying......guess he thought she would take his side? Thought he could get her to feel sorry for him? I don't know. Just know that the WS usually feels more comfortable talking with women....but not his w? Hm...... ?!?!?!?

Well, now he says that I was right.... duh?!?!? The point is that he figured it out himself and without my influence it also removed me from the blame picture. I think that was a good move for us.

JMHO,
L.

I'm going to stick my nose in here a little, if you don't mind, try to answer some of your "just wondering" questions from the other p.o.v. If that p.o.v. doesn't interest you or is offensive at all, just disregard my comments, please.

I'm the poster from TOW who has been hanging out a bit on MB, & years ago, I found myself somewhat in your wife's shoes -- in that I was separating from my ex-husband while simultaneously involved in my affair. Primary difference being, my friend is also married, & it seems from your post that the man your wife is seeing is single -- so I'm not going to comment on your questions about his commitment level to her, etc.

But, yeah, a separation/divorce can indeed be very stressful for the affair that's mixed up in it... I had big concerns about that when I moved out myself... if I would end up being too large of a "burden" on my friend, mentally or emotionally or both. The status of my marriage had also always been a huge topic of conversation between the two of us, & I was concerned about what subject would take its place, once the marriage was no more.

(Obviously, in my case, my affair survived & my marriage did not, but I'm not sure that most men would've bothered to stick around & see it through... I'd say 9 out of 10 would've finally overdosed on my turbulent emotional state during that time & given up!)

So yeah, it's tough. I found myself apologizing constantly for my mood swings. All in all, you know how stressful events pull certain couples closer together, & drive others further apart? The same rules apply here, I'd think.

Whether or not her limited support system will be a help or a hindrance... well, that most likely depends on her personality style... some people cope better with a small circle of close confidants, others need a wider range of shoulders to lean on. Same goes for family... does she *normally* turn to them for comfort & advice & support, or no? I guess it's a question of whether or not she is a private person.

The bit about smoking... I don't know... I've always suspected that people's preference when it comes to stuff like that has more to do with the person *doing* it than it does the habit itself. Meaning, you will overlook anything if you have to, just as you will get irritated at *everything* if you need to. Not a cause but an effect, I should think.

As far as working with someone you're also involved with romantically... or should I say, romantically involved with someone you work with... sheesh, I've always said you can do one *or* the other successfully, but not both. My ex-husband & I ran a business together, & looking back, whoah, big mistake... we couldn't keep the two worlds separate.

I do think some couples have major success when they work perhaps in the same industry, if not necessarily in the same office, if only because it's much easier to talk to someone about your job (often the centerpiece of a person's day-to-day existence) if they're in the same field & understand the language. It doesn't work as well with obsessive-type people, is my guess (see: me).

Anyway. I do not intend for you to take my comments to mean that the outcome of your own situation will be at all similar to mine... only that since you're trying to see inside the head of a wandering spouse, it might be helpful to hear from one who was herself.

As always, trying to be diplomatic & *not* trying to offend.

SmallCap

I'd so LOVE for her to see a counselor, ANY counselor. I do. I can tell you why, though, at least up to this point, why she won't. She's afraid to hear the truth from someone else. In fact, I think she already KNOWS the truth. I think she knows what she did to me is wrong. I think she knows that she has some emotional problems that need to be worked out. But instead of dealing with them, she kept them inside for as long as she could. I don't think any counselor or professional is going to justify her actions as correct, and I think she knows that (or she wouldn't be telling so many lies to people). I just think, for her, the idea of hearing that from a professional scares her. I wish she could realize that it would just be for her own good.

When she couldn't take it anymore, instead of talking to me and maybe even seeing a professional, she decided to start an A, in the hopes that it would make her happy again, and take her pain away. And temporarily, it will. But this is all just a cycle for her, I believe. And one day, it will all come to a boil again, and then things will start over for her. She'll move somewhere else, find a new job, a new man, move back in with her parents, whatever she thinks at the time will help her get out of the depression she's in.

I think she's afraid of being thought of as "clinically depressed", too. Right now, she probably feels like she's just depressed because she's not happy with her life's choices. But I've known her too long to believe that she's miserable because of her situation. To hear someone TELL her that, she's afraid. She doesn't WANT to have that problem. But hey, I don't want to be allergic to a bunch of stuff either. It doesn't mean I don't face up to it, and see the doctor, and get my medicine. I do it to make my life BETTER.

I provided a really good life for her. Was I the perfect MB husband? Of course not. There were little problems. But overall, her depression and mood swings, which I've witnessed since meeting her, tell me that she does need some sort of help. Even if she doesn't come back to me, I hope she gets it. What a difference it would make.

I truly hope that somehow, this experience will help her see the light -- If she'd only open herself up to me, and to the possibility that all she needs is to work on herself, instead of running away from everything, she could be magnificent. I've seen the good side of her, and it's absolutely wonderful. The dark side I'm witnessing now is horrible, but I still hope, deep down, that the wonderful girl I married wakes up, and allows me to make her life better than it ever has been before. If only she'd take a chance, and allow me and a professional to help her through this.

I hope someday she gets to that point. It would be a true breakthrough. She's a remarkable girl, if only she could find her inner happiness and learn to love herself. I'd love the chance to hold her hand, walk down the beach and watch the sunset again.

ALS