Well, for those of you following the saga, here's the latest from my world today:

First off, let me say I stayed away from email all day. No more snooping for me. Pretty proud of that one. I'm sure reading the email would have upset me a lot and probably made me LB tonight, so I'm glad I was able to fight the temptation to snoop.

My WW came over tonight for the second night of getting her things as she moves into her new place.

She asked if she could come back later this week AND next week (?!?!) to keep getting things. Not sure what that sounds like to you, to me it sounds like she's not quite ready to leave the house for the last time yet. I did have to ask her to try and let me know when she planned to stop in, as I need to make sure I'll be home to let her in (she's already given me her keys).

Very little conversation about us, though the following exchange did happen:

Me: "Cheer up, don't look so sad -- This is what you wanted."
Her: "This isn't what I wanted, but it's what I chose."
Me: "Well, what do you want?"
Her: "I don't know. But what I want isn't the same thing as what I chose."

She also mentioned that she didn't sleep well at her new place (though emails I've seen between her and OM, she previously has said she's not sleeping because she's thinking of him all night, I dunno what to believe there -- Wonder how she sleeps when he's there?). She also said she wasn't concentrating at work and getting anything done.

She mentioned smelling something in the house. I'd made chili for dinner and that's what it was. I offered her a bowl, and she said she'd like that. She had some, and sat on the couch with me (opposite ends mind you) and asked to watch a TV show we always liked to watch together with me. Then, she gathered up a few things.

Her main reason for coming tonight was to get the cat and its stuff. I tried to be upbeat, and I mostly was fine at that, but got bit emotional when it came time to take the cat. Not sure if I'll ever see her again and I did like that cat a lot. I held it together as best I could, dunno if that was a LB or not, making her feel bad about taking it. I mean, one of us had to have the cat anyway, I'm sure she'd have been just as sad to leave it as I was to see the cat go.

Funny thing, though -- There's a sticker on the door where the cat's stuff was, proclaiming its room. I went to take this down to give it to my WW, she told me please not to take it down. Not sure if that was just too much for her to take, or if maybe, somewhere in the back of her mind, she was hoping one day it could be the cat's room again. I'll leave it there for now. Fog, fog, fog.

She used the PC for a few minutes to look at classified ads for couches. Knowing it would help make her search easier, I offered her the classifeds from the Sunday newspaper and she took them with her.

She gave me a light, lingering hug (our only physical contact for the night) during which she whispered "Thank you." Then she was off. She said tomorrow she'd be emailing me her new phone number. She was here for just under 2 hours, a lot longer than I expected. She didn't take much at all, could have taken a lot more stuff. Guess she just wants to make more trips back over.

Before she left, she rolled down the window, and thanked me for dinner as well. She looked a little sad to me as well. I waved, and she was gone.

I was fairly cheerful and upbeat most of the night, and having not read email and starting to accept the fact that I may have to let her go anyway (if that's the way it plays out), so I think I was able to do okay tonight. Especially considering that PA is still alive and well (more alive than ever last I checked) and she goes right back to OM for all the physical ENs now. I shudder to think. I hate that part of this a LOT.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy I was able to do as much as I was without LB. I'm already learning and getting stronger. Working on ME.

Alright, folks, lay it on me. How's that?

ALS

<small>[ November 12, 2002, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

I think you should be proud! You are very strong and sweet.

She does sound like she's unshure if she's doing the right thing.

Hang in there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H-H is right, ALS. You did a great job.

I'm proud of you, because you're putting ol' 2long's early "efforts" 2 shame!!!

Nicely done, again. Your W will appreciate this one day!!!

Let's see....meeting needs for Domestic Support (the chili) and Recreational Companionship (the TV show).

I think you did great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh yeah, Affection too. (the lingering hug!)

We're all proud of you! Good idea about not doing the snooping. At this point, it's not beneficial at all. You know they are having contact...so it's only causing you pain. Snoop mode when you're being kept in the dark is one thing, but snooping which is only going to add to the pain and anger isn't wise.

Remember, at this stage, most if not all of what comes out of your W's mouth, either to you or anyone else is NOT going to be truthful.

I too have to congratulate you on a job well done.

Acting happy attracts people, acting sad or depressed repels people. I suggest that you always show her how happy you are. Doing so becomes a testament to your strength as a man and she'll see that you do not NEED her to be happy.

Keep up the good work.

ALostSoul,

You did so GOOD! Just Learning (JL) would be very proud of you, I'm sure. Can't wait for him to show up and say so.

Think you may be a contender for the Plan A Kinghood. Keep up the good work.

God Bless,
Jo

Wow, thanks all. Nothing negative at all? Gee!

So, I'm doing my best. She looks sad but beautiful as ever, and I told her how great she looked. She was never one to really like taking a compliment, but I meant it anyway. She looks great and I longed to hold her, but of course that's not something she wants right now (nor should it be something I'm ready for yet either, given all that's happened so far).

Well, truthfully, I am feeling happy, it's not really even a front or an act. Sure, there are moments of sadness, but this is already getting easier every day. Not that I want to lose my wife, that's what makes me sad, but I'm realizing that there is a lot out there for me, and if things aren't meant to work out, I am going to be okay. I did seem a bit sad tonight when she left, it was a bit emotional with the cat leaving, silly as it sounds -- The cat was my companion while she was out all the time, now that's gone too. But I am doing better at being happy and strong, it gets easier every time.

One other thing I forgot to mention -- She didn't take much tonight, but she did take her wedding band and engagement ring, along with a couple other meaningful jewelry gifts I gave her. Not sure why she made it a point to take those tonight, they'd been sitting there overlooked for weeks. Also, I came across copies of the wedding vows we wrote, the originals -- I asked her if I could have the vows she wrote for me, as they were very sweet. She said yes, but asked if I could make her a copy. She also wanted to keep the vows I made for her (the original).

Any insight reagarding any of her particular behaviors or things she said tonight?

Thanks everyone, will keep you posted on any new happenings or thoughts I have. I love the feedback, thank you!!!

ALS

My GUESS is that she still has some feelings of love for you. But don't use these little things as proof that she will eventually come back to you for you risk raising your hopes so high only to see them crash back down to Earth. In the meantime guard your feelings until the day comes when she tells you that she wants to come back and work on the M.

ALS,

Congratulations, you have done very well. I must second Coffeeman and others in not trying to read anything into what she does.

She is sad I am sure, because a way of life may be ending for her. She is not a sociopath apparently. But, that doesn't mean she isn't focused on OM right now.

Just hang in there, you will get another chance IF you want it. It is always a foot race between your love bank draining and the ending of the A.

The A will end, the odds are high on that.

So work on yourself and do get your life in order.

I think you have done very well. This is tough stuff and you are indeed hanging tough.

God Bless,

JL

Hey there,
You're doing g-r-e-a-t! I've been there myself - and it does pay off. Keep up the good work, make yourself feel good, enjoy smelling of roses. I know it's tough... there may be the time when you might want to start LBing again or generally wont have the force anymore... people here mention a time of 6 months, which I can confirm out of own experience, albeit that depends on the individual of course.
Not sure if I mentioned my view on the snooping thing. Yes, it is bad, and yes, it does make you crazy. BUT - ignorance is bliss, certainly, but in my case, having been lied at for 2 years, I just WANTED TO KNOW THE TRUTH. I wanted to know what was really played when WW told me "sure, I stopped contact" [guess what - she didn't] and so on. It drove me crazy, yes, but at least I had the advantage of superior information which enabled me to play my plan A better.
Regards
Nick

Morning all.

"She's not a sociopath". That's funny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm not reading into the little things too much either. I know she's going right back to OM for most of what she needs right now, so I can't really get excited about anything positive she might show. Right now, I think JL is right in that she's more sad at a chapter in her life ending than she is to lose our relationship. She'll miss me, but I think she'll miss me as a friend, not so much as a lover. OM is giving her all that now so I don't feel she's upset about losing that aspect of us.

JL, I also agree about the LB drainage factor. It's funny, sometimes I think, wow, it'd be nice if she truly wanted to work on the M, then other times I think of that and I get REALLY scared. Because that would be so hard, stressful, and is that what I REALLY want? I wonder if I WOULD be able to put my 110% in knowing everything that she's done to me? I guess that's LB drainage. It's still not at the point where I am SURE I don't want to work on the M anymore, but it does lean more that way all the time. I think with each passing day that I know she is continuing the strong A with OM, I just love her a little less. Sad but true.

I don't think I could go 2 years without snooping if I was still on Plan A! There's no way this thing is going to play out this long. I don't even think it will take 6 months before I know whether we're getting back together or not, actually. And if we WERE back together, I think my WW and I would need some sort of trust/deal in place so I could make sure that NC was taking place. The first step would be her leaving her job though, and I think that's another reason it's tough for her to consider coming home, no matter how good my Plan A may be. Would be a lot simpler problem if OM wasn't there at the workplace.

Oh well, another day to face.

ALS

You did good! Keep it up... I was doing great myself, but called my h too much yesterday... hope you don't have that problem..

Keep it up , and have your own life, don't be learning on her!

Hugs, H

ALS - ditto all the others on a great job.

My take on her behavior in your presence: she's squarely on top of the fence - a common WS trait.

Please prepare yourself to see waffling supreme. She may hop from one side of the fence to the other without warning or reason. You need to ride these zig zags out. Don't read too much into movement in either direction. It's like following the stock market - the long term trend is what's important.

WAT

ALS ... Dude, you did an awesome job. My wife is also waffling. HARD. I know that OM is still in the picture somehow ... but who was the one who moved her and set up the new place and was with her for her court appearance? This guy. I didn't shed a tear, I didn't ask for hugs. I smiled and laughed a lot. In the past four days I've felt more connected to my wife than I have in months and I can tell she's feeling it, too.

Take this time to work on you. Re-invent yourself a little. Get some new clothes. Go get a haircut. Keep the house clean. Have a boys night once a week (starting this week) and don't tell her which day it is. Make yourself as attractive as you can. She's going to see you as a confident, happy man moving forward and that will intrigue her. Last night was my WWs first night alone in her apartment. I decided not to call her because I had a hunch that she would call me. She did.

Just roll with it all. Smile a lot. It's going to be like riding a rollercoaster blindfolded. Do ANYTHING ... SOMETHING healthy that will improve your mood.

Hang in there, brutha. You're doing great.

whippit.

Whippit, WAT, & Others:

Again, thanks. It's really nice to hear from experienced MB'ers like you that I'm at least handling the situation well. It's funny, I never knew I had it in me. If you'd have asked me how I'd handle this a month ago, I'd have said I'd have immediately turned by back on my WW, never to want to see her again in my life. Despite all of our problems, and even the fact that she's putting me through hell right now, I still look at her and see the woman I fell in love with. I often wonder if she sees any of that in me anymore, or if she's just biding her time until she can be free and clear.

I'm pretty sure that when she's with OM, I am far from her mind, and maybe when she sees me, some of those good memories come back. I wish OM wasn't so close and in contact with her every single day.

My WW still hasn't been alone at her new place for very long (2 nights so far). I know that OM is going to be spending a lot of nights there with her. That hurts. But he can't spend EVERY night there, and those nights she's alone will be when she has time to reflect on things. I really wish she'd have just taken more time on her own, instead of her continued need to be with SOMEONE (myself or OM) practically every night.

Tonight, I know OM is spending the night from reading email earlier this week. I'm not going to read those anymore, because it's easier for me not to know when he's there and when he's not. But, of course, tonight my WW won't want to stop by, call me, or anything. Tomorrow night, if she does, I'll assume OM isn't there. So yeah, waffling bigtime I guess. But I think OM is getting top priority right now.

My WW told me that she had so much stuff to put away at her new place, and that's why she's slowly bringing things over from the house. I'm not sure if that's the truth or if it's just an excuse to give her more chances to come to the house, to prolong her moving out, in other words. I won't read much into that now. Originally, I figured it would take her 2 days max and all her stuff would be out. Now she's talking about still coming over NEXT week for more things.

I've got a lot of plans lining up, and plenty to do around the house and otherwise to keep busy. I've never had a problem finding things to do. I'm watching some TV, reading Harley's books, and going on with my life. The time I spend here at MB and with the books is truly enlightening. I feel that's helped more than anything in this process.

So, the rollercoaster continues -- I still hope that, if she decides to end it with OM and work on our M, I'm still willing. I want to be. Hopefully my love bank holds up through it all.

Thanks, everyone, for your continued advice, support, and insight. This site has gotten me through so much. I'm glad I found it so soon.

ALS

Don't let your imagination run too wild. It's hard but focus on you and your relationship ... not him and his relationship. He's going to f%&k up ... they almost always do. It's not a matter of "if" ... it's "when." So you have to be the more attractive alternative when that happens. One of the things my dad told me a few months back (back when I wanted to save my marriage at all costs) was to be sure I worked on me because in six months I may realize that the M is not worth saving. Then what? At the time I could say with certainty that my wife, if forced to choose, would have filed for Dv in a New York minute. So I went to work on me and now I'm confident that she's has no idea what she wants now ... which means that she's beginning to see I'm still a pretty good guy and worth hanging on to for a while longer.

You're awesome. Keep it up. One of the things I've felt from the outset is that old love is more powerful than new love ... every time. Be patient ... be powerful.

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Thanks, whippit. I'm sure the OM will screw up, if he hasn't already. My WW is afraid of being alone and rejected right now, still unsure about us though so I think at this point, OM will be able to get away with just about anything. That won't last, but she's not going to push him away out of fear of losing (as she sees it) her only companion right now. So OM can basically walk all over her and she'll take whatever she can get from him. For now. The question is, how long will that go on?

But you're so right about working on yourself. I'm making so many leaps already as a result of this, and I don't plan to stop anytiem soon. My WW would file for a Dv now if I told her to choose today, I'm sure of that. And she may still want to file soon, that wouldn't surprise me either. Regardless, I want to read more, learn more, and have fun. Doing things that take my mind off the A is what makes me feel good. I feel so enlightened by everything I am learning about relationships. Coming here does help, too!

A final interesting sidenote -- I won't be surprisd if she doesn't even email me her new phone number today. Not because she's playing with me, I just think that when she gets to work, and sees OM and they start exchanging their love e-mails all day long, she again TOTALLY forgets about me. Kind of scary. At least if she mailed the number (I never even asked, SHE brought it up last night) then I'd think she took a moment to pause and think of me today. Without that, I'll assume that she's 100% into OM today, and I'm completely out of mind again.

Oh well! Plan A continues.

ALS

Good work.

Don't worry so much about how long your wife will allow herself to be walked on by OM. You can't change or control her or him. She'll wake up or she won't. Either way you win because of the changes in yourself you've made.

Got this from a successful MB alum. Thought I'd share:

Just remember that:

A) You don't have to make any decisions today -- nothing has to be decided immediately; give it time, wait it out and see what happens.

B) You can only control your own actions, nobody else's. Somebody doesn't do something because you willed them to do it.

C) The car dealer that appears confident and offers a good product is the one that makes the sale; not the dealer that is emotional and begs for the sale.

D) Go above the call of duty. Put more in than you take out. Especially when it's difficult.

E) Listen to your gut, not your head. Do the right thing. Always. It may be difficult, but you'll never hate yourself for it.

F) If somebody wants space, give it to them.

G) Find ways to love yourself. Esteem is hard in this situation.

H) Don't bring up the past out of anger or to hurt; do it to clear things up and avoid bringing it up when there's no need.

I) Don't worry about being right. Do what works.