Hey folks,

Just a few random thoughts today, since I'm not planning to see or hear from my WW. Comments welcome, but not necessary, just getting a few things up here for others to check out.

I realized something today -- If I could see the future, and I knew my WW and I weren't getting back together, I wouldn't care at all that she was sleeping with and spending so much time with OM. In fact, I'd be happy for her. The entire reason that it upsets me so much is that I'm still holding a candle for her. I think of the future, and the scenario of us back together, and THEN how I'd feel about the PA with the OM. THAT'S what bothers me. When I think of the possiblity of it NOT working out for us at all, and just envision a future with us apart, it suddenly doesn't seem important anymore. Maybe this is the right attitude to take to stay cool about things like this. Can always deal with the hurt if recovery ever starts to happen. An interesting thought.

Speaking of recovery, a few questions for everyone here who's been there or hoping to be there -- If your WS comes back to you, how do you know that they're really coming back because of you, because of the M?

So many times, I see it mentioned that a lot of A's need to "die natural deaths" before the WS comes back. Well, what if the OP rejects the WS, and the WS comes back to you out of nothing more than loneliness and rejection? The fear of having no one? Is that really a GOOD thing for the M? How can recovery start and be effective if the WS is only back by default?

Furthermore, what about WS's that come back for financial reasons? They move away, try and make it on their own, the cash runs out, or they just hate living on a shoestring, and they return to you for THAT reason (maybe even still longing for the OP). Again, might make for a rough, maybe even impossible recovery.

If you've been in recovery, or are working towards this, how did you know that when your WS came back, it was for the RIGHT reasons?

ALS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
When I think of the possiblity of it NOT working out for us at all, and just envision a future with us apart, it suddenly doesn't seem important anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good. You're making progress on you. You're not going to die alone, right?. There's more than one person out there for us all. Do you imagine yourself happy with other people ... even for a second? If so, that's good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Speaking of recovery, a few questions for everyone here who's been there or hoping to be there -- If your WS comes back to you, how do you know that they're really coming back because of you, because of the M?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would hope they would say so. If not, then ask. Remember, you have conditions for marital recovery. If your WW isn't willing to meet your conditions, then evaluate whether your marriage is worth saving.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[W]hat if the OP rejects the WS, and the WS comes back to you out of nothing more than loneliness and rejection? The fear of having no one? Is that really a GOOD thing for the M? How can recovery start and be effective if the WS is only back by default?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't consider it "by default." I'll always view myself as first choice ... even if she doesn't choose me and our marriage. If that's the case, then she doesn't deserve me (just like she said a few times prior to D-Day). Yes, default is a fallback. But the fallback is the person she chose to marry FIRST. Let the rejection happen. It's an eye-opener. And if it works in your favor ... great news.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Furthermore, what about WS's that come back for financial reasons?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Financial stability is an EN, right? If she comes back because she's strapped for cash it means she's willing to let you meet that need. But again, make sure you have boundaries for yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you've been in recovery, or are working towards this, how did you know that when your WS came back, it was for the RIGHT reasons?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I won't until she's ready to work on the marriage and meet my conditions for recovery.

Whippit,

Your attitude is fantastic! And very insightful.

Actually, I have done that, envisioned myself happy again, down the road, with someone else. I've done it many times since D-Day, when things with my WW were at the worst. So that is progress then. The only sad point is the thought of having to start over again with someone new, how to meet that person, etc...But at the same time, it's also exciting and fills me with a sense of hope.

I have no intention of dying alone, and I know that there's other women out there that would appreciate me. I still love my WW, and I want her to work on the M, but the whole A situation definitely has had me sometimes thinking, "Hey, somewhere out there, there's a girl that would NEVER do this to you and make you just as happy as you were, if not happier."

As far as recovery goes, I suppose if the time came for that, the first thing I'd run to this forum to ask would be "Okay, now that she's showing interest in recovery, how can I delicately bring up my conditions for starting the recovery process without stopping it dead in its tracks, and LBing right off the bat?"

I thought of myself as my WW's first choice as well, but sometimes I do have doubts about that. Only because our M has been so short, and it seems like, since moving to this area, as soon as she made a friend of the opposite sex, he was better than me. Makes me wonder if I was, to her, just the best thing at the time, since I could be left so easily, and so quickly (EA only started a little over a month or so ago). It's a little defeating, but I don't ever think of that as a character flaw with me, rather, a flaw in herself, to be so fickle and weak in that regard. I still hope she'll see the light and work on herself, and us.

ALS

I find your attitude to be pretty fantastic, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It took me a long time to get to this point. I was a needy, crying, hold-on-tight, ball of goo for several weeks before I began to get it right. But once I did the changes in my wife began to come. (The floodgates opened the moment I stepped aside and said that separation was the best thing we could do. It really surprised her and I felt like I was in control of something again.) Learn all you can from these great people here, keep up your plan, and you're going to be great.

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Funny how you said she told you she "doesn't deserve you", I heard that one a few times after D-Day as well. Saying that I was too good for her or something. Ah, the things they say.

I started reading SAA tonight by the way. What a great book. I hope someday to show it to my WW. I wonder if it would be out of line to give her something like that to read while she was still seeing OM? Probably not a good idea, huh?

By the way, just a very short e-mail from WW today, giving me her new phone number at her apartment and to let me know the cat was okay, but timid in its new environment. She signed off with "Hope you are okay." So I guess at least she's concerned for me a bit.

Feeling good today though, due to checking her mail earlier in the week, I know OM is with her all night tonight, but since I stopped checking her mail (2 days running strong!) soon I won't know when they're together, so it should be easier to deal with that.

I'm also feeling pretty good about myself, and definitely accepting the fact that if she doesn't turn around and meet conditions for reconciliation, I've got no problem moving on to someone else. I don't think she'll see the sad me anymore. In fact, not that I don't want it, but the prospect of her coming back is now starting to seem scarier to me than the process of just letting her go. I'm confident that I'll be able to meet new people pretty easily when I'm ready to. And that's a good feeling.

Anyway, that does it for today. I'm sure I'll have more to say tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS