I was shaking when I found out. I guess I'm not as 'over this' as I thought I was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have accepted that I cannot control my snooping. And there are other things that I'm worried about, things that I might do based on emotions. It's my co-addict self coming through. My controller... so desperately needing some sense of control in a toxic relationship that has been going out of control in light speed.

I specifically asked my H to NOT start looking to meet any OW for at least 3 months. He assured me that at this point, he has absolutely NO interest in getting involved with anyone. WAVE THOSE RED FLAGS! I've heard THAT line before! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And sure enough.. he's already started.

I called my MIL. I've gotta stop doing that! I explained to her that I don't have any other support system...that her and my FIL have been my only 'live' supports for a LONG time now. My other main support, being all of you wonderful people of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

After talking to MIL, I called the women's shelter. I should have done that first. But I didn't. I hope to know better next time. Next time? Oh yeah... there's no doubt in my mind that there will be another call made. They know me well over there now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have decided that I need to move into a shelter with the boys. I don't really want to do that... but H won't stop his destructive ways. He CAN'T stop them... he's a sex addict. I know this... but it still hurts like hell, and I can't keep myself from taking his actions as personal attacks against me. That's why I have to remove myself from this situation... a.s.a.p.

At the earliest, I will be out of here this coming weekend. More probably, it will be early next week. There are still more things I need to sort out before I leave here.

I'm not shaking as much as I was. And I've already confronted H on my newest findings. No surprise, he jumped back at me with how disrespectful *I* was by looking in his emails.

The fact that he's been starting his cycle all over again is scary. But mostly b/c it's all happening so much faster this time. I know I've been able to distance myself from it since last time, b/c I can see it far more clearly. But that still doesn't make it hurt much less at first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

At this moment, I don't really have any questions to ask. I just wanted to update my ever-so-quickly changing situation here.

Geesh! Just over a month ago, we were in recovery for 18 months... and now we're back to square one. I'm really starting to HATE my H. I can't wait to get out of here!

Thanks for 'listening'.

Karen

Dear Karen,

Hugz, You know the cyber hug with the right hand on the left should and left on the right shoulder......squeeze! Now one more time.

I am sooo sorry for this setback. You are not surprised just very very hurt. That is expected. So what will it take for this man to come to his senses? Not sure right now but a loving W and family certainly isn't doing it. So he needs to learn life's lesson the hard way. Something majorly wrong in his brain and you can't fix it.

So take care of you and the boys. You didn't say what your MIL said. Are they now refusing to be your support? Karen, have you thought about moving closer to your mom? Does she know you may have to go to a shelter?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure you explore all the possiblities. Sure wish we were closer.

Hugz,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> You didn't say what your MIL said. Are they now refusing to be your support? Karen, have you thought about moving closer to your mom? Does she know you may have to go to a shelter? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My MIL said that she and FIL would be there for me as my support if I needed them. I just don't feel right about that, b/c they should be there for H - now is when he needs them the most. And the last thing I need are his accusations that I'm trying to take his family from him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I was talking to her about how hurt I am about how things will turn out (e.g. I won't be attending their family "do's", like Easter or Xmas). She tried to assure me that I'll still be part of some things, b/c no matter what, I am still the mum of her grandchildren. I wasn't overly comforted by her to be honest. And I need to make a conscious effort to NOT call her anymore.

Moving closer to my mum isn't an option to me. She's in the outskirts of Toronto (in Oakville), and the cost of living there is twice as much as it is here in London (and it's only 1 1/2 to 2 hours away). Yes, my mum knows about the shelter situation. She's like me, in that she wants me to do what's best for the boys. She knows my predicament, and really, there's nothing she can do. She will support me in whatever decision I make though. That I'm sure of.

I'm hitting "maximum overdrive" now... and am working hard to get everything in order to leave from here. Part of what I want, is to have everything ready to go and be put into storage. I don't want to leave anything behind if I can help it. I don't ever want to step foot in this house again, if at all possible.

As far as actually getting into the shelter, it's on a maximum 24hr notice... there's no planning for it on their books (although I've been getting the help through their counsellors. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). So once I'm ready to go, I just give them a call... and off we go!

It's pretty scary. But I'm still feeling that empowerment within. THAT is what I'm holding onto. Faith in myself.

Karen

Topie,

I am worried about you, and the shelter. They can be unfriendly places... Are you sure?

Maybe you can arrange to sleep in seperate rooms until you get a job and h then moves out? I don't know what to say.... if your decision is made up, it is... I just think you might have better options.. he isn't beating you.... just being unfaithful... well, not just....

I apologize if I sound harsh, I am just worried for you. I stayed in a women's shelter for a few days once, and it is still a nightmare...
'
There were rules on what time to go to bed... it was barren and cold and everyone had all these yucky chores to do... all at the same time I was trying to find a job, etc....

I know sometimes it can't be avoided... but I wuold be sure about it. Have you looked at the place on the inside? Do they have a lot of rules?

Maybe it would be supportive, cheerful and better.

I do reccomend getting away from abuse, and he is abusing you... mentally. I know, I know.

I am probably one who has put up with way too much abuse... so don't even listen to me.

I just fear your unhappiness, uneasiness and discomfort in a shelter.

I will be praying for you and your boys.

YOu will rise above this and become a stronger women. We do not need these men who abuse us... and yes, I do see your point a shelter might be better than lviing with the blatant abuse.

I am here for you and with you in your decision, just scared for you.

DO you know what kind of job you are going to look for? Do you have childcare options? Maybe there is some sort of church or community assisted childcare that is free for single mom's? just starting out?

Is there no finanical aid avaialbe to you in Canada if you leave? for housing or food? Maybe shelters are better in Canada... I don't know... I just know the whole experience for me.. though livable... and not the worst ever, is still a scary memory, but it was A SAFE PLACE.. just not the same as a home... and not private.

I am here as your friend thinking of you and praying for you and your boys.

I am sorry it has come to this for you. Please don't be upset or let me upset you. It could of been just my reaction to the experience, and your whole venture may turn out wonderful and calming and a big relief to be out on your own.

Take care of you, that is what matters now.

Honey

Karen-

Sooo sorry to hear this.

I am confused about something though.

He's the cheater. Why isn't HE moving out?

Can't he move in with his parents? Aren't they close by? I know that you probably don't want the memories but you have three little boys. Won't they do better with the separation if they stay where they live and don't have to move into a shelter?

Why the
H E double toothpicks

does he get to stay?

You know, even if you file for divorce and force him out then you can always retract it later if he comes to his senses (doesn't sound like it though). Think of the boys. I know that even one night in a suite with the kids that while I know I can single-parent fine (as proven many times) it is so much easier on them if they stay where they are.

Kick him out.

Honey and Nursebetty: Thanks for your replies.

I don't really want to go to a shelter. But I'm wrestling with which would be better for the kids... to stay here in this toxic environment or to go to a shelter. Both are terrible options.

My H has offerred to leave, but I don't want him to for a number of reasons. If I'm the one who leaves there are more advantages in the long run for me and my boys: we have faster access to "geared to income" housing (up to 2 months as opposed to 2 yrs), I know the packing WILL get done (H is the great procrastinator), we will be in a bigger house (this one is really too small, the boys need a backyard to run in), and finally, b/c I'm trying to break the past cycle of him being the one to leave. It sounds silly, I know... and I also promised him that I would never kick him out again. I really want to keep my word on this. For whatever reasons, it's very important to me.

Yes, I will be on social assistance again once out of here. That's what it's there for, and it doesn't bother me. Because of their available programs, I will be able to get back into the work force within a year or two (I want to get some schooling and newer experience, preferably in an office setting). The geared to income housing will only make it all easier for me, b/c I won't have to settle for a minimum wage job (like working at McDonald's or something along those lines).

I'm feeling MUCH better this morning. I'm certainly not shaking as much as I was last night, although I do feel nautious. Here we go again.... the infidelity diet attacks once more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And although I could do with the weightloss, this is NOT the way I like it done.

I'm going to do my best to take this one day at a time, and stay in the house as long as possible. It's going to be very trying on my emotions, that's for sure. Last night, going to the shelter was the best option. But this a.m., it's not. So we'll see what happens.

On a VERY GOOD note, I want to share with you all that I"m FINALLY going to start on getting my drivers license today!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I got the $100 needed (as a birthday gift), and will be going to the driver's exam centre shortly after 12 noon today (my dad will drive me there). Wish me luck on passing the written test! I"m really nervous, as I've never done it before. But I read the book, and most of it is common sense anyways. I'll let you all know if I passed.

Karen

holy cow- my computer crashes and im gone and look at all that has happened.

I'm so sorry for this for you. i'm not much better off. ill post it its long. i would send you my strength but im gonna need it too-i asked husband to leave. i know the empowering frrling you mention.

my love to you and the boys.

Topie (with a drivers permit i hope)...

Protect yourself...quit snooping...he will do what he does and it is out of control...don't keep shoving hurt in your own face...

Don't ask things of him "like waiting three months to find an OW...don't give him permission you two are still married...don't hand him anything that he can use against..."you told me to get another women..."...blah blah blah...protect you....interact with control...but express feelings without LBing..to protect you...

Expect to set foot in that house again...the children are going to be in some turmoil over this...and familiar surroundings may be something all you will need in little spurts in the upcoming times....

Also have you two discussed co-parenting issues...or is hubby completey withdrawn...keep reminding him this is the only choice you feel is left open based on his choices..that at this point this is the only way salvage any type of positive feelings what so ever...and staying with someone who continues to make the choices he does is no longer acceptable to you and no longer an option for you...put on your shoulders what you should....

BUT he is still dad...and you both need to look at that fact and figure out plans for the kids...

New option with upcoming driver license you can always just run him over... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ...OK OK run him over just a little... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (I mean it could look like an accident..."Oooops honey sorry didn't see you standing there. I am new at this you know".....
OK OK OK...don't run him over..it's not funny...and I am OFCOURSE not advocating anyone running over anyone...hee hee..ever...unless you are one hundred percent sure it would look only accidental...KIDDING!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Peace to you
ARK

Can he just leave until your house & income is situated?

I PASSED!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Out of 40 questions, I only got one wrong. I answered that the minimum legal distance to park from a water hydrant is 6m (20ft), when the answer was 3m (10ft). Oh well! Better to be safe than sorry, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Nikko: I was going to put out a search for you, to find out how things are going. Yes, things HAVE changed drastically for me in a few short weeks. But in my case, I know I'm dealing with a sex addict.... so it's impossible for the Harley principles to work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's sad, but it's the way it is.

Ark: You make me laugh SO MUCH!! Thanks for that. I'll let you know if I enact on your advice or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm not sure if your plan A/tough love strategy is worth it in my situation. I'm seriously thinking about moving to a plan B once I get a new place. And I am already comfortable in knowing that I did try my best to save my M. I'm very content with that. So I can move on more easily.

nursebetty: He's actually offerred to leave while I get everything ready... but I'm afraid that if he does leave, then I won't be eligible for the housing. Actually, I talked to the housing agency today, and I may not be eligible as an abused spouse. Although it is quite apparent that I have been sufferring through emotional abuse and financial abuse, b/c he hasn't hit me or even SAID that he was going to hurt me, I may not fit within their guidelines as to what's considered to be an "abusive" relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I"m waiting to hear back from my contact person, to find out if I'm eligible. If I'm not, then I will change my strategy, and either move into a shelter temporarily, or better yet, just find housing from here and move straight in (however, that would cut out the chance for geared to income, where you only pay 1/3 of your wages to rent).

Thanks again all. I'll keep the updates coming as I get them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen
(signing off while humming... feeling pretty darn important for passing her drivers exam the first time - even though it took her 14 YEARS to get around to it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi topie,
I have a few thoughts, (jmho of course) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Firstly, I totally understand how you want to be the one to leave, to not break your promise and make him leave, and to change things, how they have been done in the past. (hey, been there, done that!) Having been in that same situation myself, I can say for me it really did work. It changed the dynamics. It made me not so much the
victim. And it worked... fast. The difference for
my h between having been the one that left, and being the one left was huge. An empty house to come home to, with most of our stuff, but no family was not something my h appreciated! Although I hated being away from my home and my stuff with a passion, it changed even my outlook.
I realised that with or without him, I had everything, as long as I had the kids I was ok!!
For how your h is acting <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Perhaps he is not as cold as he seems, perhaps he is feeling very unhappy with himself, maybe powerless, probably doesn't blame you so maybe has a bit of feeling very sorry for himself going on, but most of all rejected. Rejected as we all know oh so well is not not not a good place to be! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And so he turns all this round and it appears as though he is cold and indifferent, and hoping and hoping that you will just forget about it, and change your mind. My h acted very very much the same. It was for me soul destroying, I thought he didn't care at all, which nearly took the last of my confidence. He just hid how he was truely feeling quite well. Look for the little signs: My h wasn't eating, looked like sh*t, was generally shakey and would not talk about it at all. He didn't try to convince me to stay, didn't say he didn't want me to go, but I do beleive now
that that is called pride.
He has a lot to loose topie, and he knows it. And I'll bet he is not nearly as sure of himself as he may seem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Hugs topie, lots of them, you have a hard road ahead, all of this takes your confidence. My mum used to say to me, Have some confidence in yourself. I had none and couldn't fathom what she was talking about, coming out the otherside of it I understood. I just wish I had understood as I went thru it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Have some confidence that you can do this, and some confidence in him - that he does love you enough to fix this!
Take care topie, and try to gain some peace of mind with the fact that as long as you have your children, you have everything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (although it sure doesn't feel like it when your energy is sapped, you feel scared and tired and yuk, and they are all at you!)
All jmho, but am thinking of you.
Deb.

Congrats Topie!! Welcome to the wonderful world of driving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You'll be amazed at how much freedom , confidence and independence there is when you can get behind the wheel and just go...where ever you want whenever you want.

Topie, Congratulations on passing the driver's test! Great news. You're on your way...

Just worried about you being in a shelter...not that I don't believe that you should stand your ground BUT...who cares about what you promised him?? You have three beatiful children. Their well being is first and foremost.

I shudder at the thought of them having to leave their familiar surroundings. Food, drinks, toys, books...all those things that are at their fingertips. I really think he must be the one to leave unless you find another place of your own.

And honestly, I believe that's better for your too.

I'm praying for you.

I finally got my call back from the housing access centre. The bad news, is that I do not qualify to be put on their urgent list. HOWEVER, there is good news too! I am already up there near the top!

HUH?!?!?!

Two years ago, a few weeks after Andrew passed away, H and I went to their offices hoping to find a new home. Our main concern was staying in the same townhouse complex where Andrew died. And we weren't comfortable doing that. TOO MANY triggers. So we applied through the H.A.C. and waited to hear from them. At the time, we were told that the average waiting period for a geared to income house was 2 yrs.

Guess what? Those two years have now passed! The original file was officially 'cancelled' on November 8th of this year (yes, just last week!), so they were able to stop that, and put my new application in with the old. All they had to do was delete H on the form, and add the twins instead. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Off the record", I should have a place by January 1st - at the latest! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I think that now that I know that, I will be able to handle staying here day by day.

Ideally, I'd like to talk to H rationally and logically about how to proceed between now and then, but I don't think that's possible. He's in total denial about him having any problems. And of course, on account that he's already looking to meet new other women, he is obviously in a VERY THICK FOG.

I will only go to the shelter if things get way out of control here - meaning physically violent or outright verbal threats. It's already mid November. January 1st isn't really that far away. And with the support from my MB family and the women's crisis phoneline, I'll get past all of this with flying colours. One day at a time... one day at a time... one day at a time.

Karen

Hi Karen!

I've been following your posts since you first announced this new turn of events. I've been wanting to respond, but I always kept seeing your threads at a time that I just busy as heck and wasn't able to sit down and give you my thoughts.

I'm gonna give you a hug first (((((Karen))))) cause I know you are going through hell. But then I gotta give you a bit of a spanking!

Couple of concerns. I think you are drawing a fair and reasonable boundary by saying "I deserve to be treated with respect and live in a sexually exclusive (including porn) relationship and so I am going to move out."

Where I think you are going wrong is in your motivations. I've been watching your "vents" ever since you made your announcement to your husband.

What I haven't seen is where you expect this to end. Are you filing for divorce? Or did you say you are moving out until he can provide you with a safe relationship? Or did you just say: "I'm tired of this, I'm moving out!"

You see, cuz I'm a bit puzzled where your ultimate goal is here, and I am sure your husband is too!

What did you expect was going to happen after your announcement? Did you honestly think that a man who has not respected or protected or cared for you (which is why you are leaving) would respect your request to be faithful after you've already said you are done with him? Why would he celebrate your birthday or respond to your confusing and conflicting behavior (I'm moving out but why aren't you hugging and kissing me?!?).

I know I am being hard on you...but I'm starting to suspect that your motives were not REALLY about drawing a boundary but instead were really more about trying to control him. You promised not to kick him out again (you figured out a long time ago that didn't "work" - ie get him to straighten up) and it looks like you are simply attempting a new control tactic. (Maybe he'll be so shocked/guilty that his kids will be in a shelter that he'll finally "get it" and beg me to stay and promise to change.)

Its a fine line between boundaries and control. And most of your vents are revealing that your motives are more about manipulating him instead of protecting you. And there's a healthy dose of denial going on - you've managed to convince yourself and quite a few others that what you are doing is the strong healthy thing to do!

Here's my biggest concern. Someone in one of your recent threads had suggested Al-Anon. I remember nodding my head thinking - exactly! But your response was "Well, maybe, but not now, not until I get thru this." Which rather struck me as the same logic of the WS who says he/she wont come home and be faithful until they feel love first!

Because of the crisis you are going through, you absolutely need Al-Anon more than ever to help keep you on the straight and narrow path!

No, your husband isn't an alcoholic. But you said your father was. And THAT is an extremely telling point. It explains WHY your actions might be more based in control instead of boundaries. You see, kids of alcoholics are almost completely unable to do boundaries instead of control - their alcoholic parents pound down any kind of instictive healthiness in their children. Kids of alcoholics are programmed from their most early ages an incredibly unhealthy approach to life. It also explains why a man like your husband might have been attractive to you....after living with alcoholic parents your whole life...dysfunctional people are far more comfortable than healthy ones!

So, while I dont' have a problem with the action you are taking....I do have a problem with your motives. Why does it matter? Because motives will determine how well and IF you are able to recover emotionally. Already your resentments from unrealistic expectations are boiling over. This does not bode well for your own kids, or your own future relationships.

I remember in our 'false' recovery that I had finally had it with my husband's lies and disrespect and continued dating. So, for ME, I decided like you did, that I deserved better and I told my husband I was done and I filed for divorce.

My husband went back to his original OW so fast my head nearly spun.

At that point, YEAH, it was still cheating and YEAH it hurt like hell, and YEAH I wanted him to wait. BUT, I'd told him I was done. I couldn't hardly chase him around and demand that he continue to be married when I had told him that I was finished. Yes, *I* was respecting our marriage vows by not dating until everything was legally and religiously over, but that was becaue *I* had to look at myself in the mirror for the rest of my life. I had finally realized that the ONLY person I could control was me, and I certainly had no right to demand that my husband remain faithful.

Karen, when I finally managed to take that realization into ALL of my actions regarding my husband - THAT was when he decided to do a 180 and be the husband I needed. I was convinced, like you, that it was hopeless. Even Steve Harley said so.

My husband decided we had a chance, because I'd finally stopped trying to demand that he do what I thought he should do, and I had finally stopped trying to be the person I thought he should be.

Now, I have no idea if your story has the chance that mine did. But, I know that YOU will be a better happier person if you can learn these things.

((((hugs))))

I hope I didn't beat you too hard. I mean this all sincerely with your best interest at heart!

Karen,

I am sorry that things seem to be so bad, it was good news about the housing though!!!!

I really hope that you take the time to read and re-read BR's words, she has great insight, and she does mean for the best for you and the boys. (I so wish she would look at my situation and tell me what it is I need to do) I too might not like what I see put infront of me, it would take me awhile to realize that it is for my own good!!!

Hugs to you Karen and the boys, continue to protrect you and them!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bramblerose: No worries! IMO, there is no such thing as being "too harsh" with constructive criticisms. After all, that's why I post here. There is no better "interactive journal" to be found! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I do not want my M back. What I do want, is for H to not seek out OW's while the kids and I are still here. That is a small timeline of only 2 months, at the most. I have requested that he stay home in the evenings until the kids are in bed, so that they can have time together. I know I"m not dealing with a rational person here, but I really don't think I"m asking for too much.

I have told him that he could change this course I'm on, but that would include him seeing that he has some issues he needs to address, and then seek help for them. He isn't willing to do that. And yes, I can see exactly how controlling that request is, but I couldn't think of any other way to say it to him at the time. And he's made his decision not to seek help. That makes my decision to file for D after our one year of separation is up. I'm done with hanging on.

I"m strongly siding with the idea of moving to plan B once I get a new place with the boys. However, on account that I don't want to stay married to my H, I'm not sure what point plan B would be. I'm thinking that it would do me good to force distance between us, and keep contact to a bare minimum for kid related stuff.

I do agree, that al-anon would be quite beneficial to me.... however, I would rather wait until I move. Mostly, so that I can attend meetings as close to home as possible. I will also be joining a church around that time. I miss that part of my life. I used to be so involved with church... I taught sunday school, was president of our youth group (when I was still IN the youth group of course! LOL), took part in all sorts of activities in the church, including choir for a while, and was even asked to be the adult youth advisor (with H) just before we left Toronto to move here to London. These are all part of my plans when I move. And I will have NO EXCUSES to not do them either.... especially now that I'll be able to drive myself there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My motives in this whole (mess) er... situation... hmmm... I'm not sure I really have any that I'm aware of. I know that my goal is to move on with my life, and to D my H. In the meantime, I would like us to remain civil to each other, for the sake of the boys, and then let the M go. Too idealistic?

BrambleRose: I highly respect your opinion. And with you being on the outside of this situation, you can see things far more clearly than I can. So I ask you, what do YOU think I should do? I really do need guidance here... which is why I'm going through the women's shelter and a counsellor (not until Nov 19th - 5 more days to go!). I have my overall plan, but I need some major fine tuning. I hope you have time to help me.

Karen

Hi Karen,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not want my M back. What I do want, is for H to not seek out OW's while the kids and I are still here. That is a small timeline of only 2 months, at the most. I have requested that he stay home in the evenings until the kids are in bed, so that they can have time together. I know I"m not dealing with a rational person here, but I really don't think I"m asking for too much.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not a question of "too much". Let me also point out that I "want" lots of stuff. I want a Jaguar XK8 in my driveway (in blue with lots of neat chrome!) - unfortunately wanting does NOT give me that kind of control over my reality. I'm a secretary (albeit a highly overpaid one!) - no matter how hard I WANT that car, my (reality) salary still dictates differently. Darn. Your "wants" don't have anymore power than mine do. So why waste time, effort and energy on it?

What do you have control over? You and your responsibilities. So work on those! Your husband's responsibilities as a dad are HIS, and theres nothing you can or SHOULD do to get him to do it the way you think he should. His relationship with his kids are his problem. Its his choice to stay home or to go out and party with other women. I know it hurts like hell to watch, and it hurts even more to see your kids hurt by it, but theres NOTHING you can do about it. All you can do is hug your kids alot and take care of YOUR responsibilities.

What you are expecting (expectations are premeditated resentments) is for your husband THIS TIME to do something differently than he always has. He is who he is. That's why you are leaving right? Think about it. "H, I'm leaving you because I choose to be respected and treated well and you choose not to do those things. BUT, in the meantime, before I leave, could you change to suit me? This time, I only want you to do it for 2 months, instead of a lifetime, so really, its not so unreasonable is it?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I specifically asked my H to NOT start looking to meet any OW for at least 3 months. He assured me that at this point, he has absolutely NO interest in getting involved with anyone. WAVE THOSE RED FLAGS! I've heard THAT line before! And sure enough.. he's already started.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"H, I don't want you anymore, but I don't want you to look for anyone else until it's convenient for me...."

And not only that, but you made this request with the expectation that he would do it, hence the anger now that he has done what he has ALWAYS done.

Acceptance is a very calm emotion. You haven't accepted the reality of who he is, you are still trying to control, hence the need to vent so much!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do agree, that al-anon would be quite beneficial to me.... however, I would rather wait until I move. Mostly, so that I can attend meetings as close to home as possible. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My sponsor used to drive me NUTS, but she was right. Everytime I made excuses about not the right time, too far, no sitter, yadda yadda...she'd say: BR, sweetie, there are 1000 excuses and only one reason. I HATED it when she said that. She always said that if I made Al-Anon my priority everything else would fall into place. She was right.

So, I say it to you: There's 1000 excuses and only ONE reason! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the meantime, I would like us to remain civil to each other, <remaining snipped></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aaaah lots of motivations tied up right in this little statement!

What you would like and want and REALITY are 2 different things. And besides, your idea of civil and your husband's idea of civil are probably vastly different things.

You think civil includes fidelity to you until divorced and responsible relationship building behavior to your children.

He thinks civil means you leave him alone to get on with his life since you've already told him that you don't want him anymore.

Be the best MOM you can be. Leave the DAD responsibilities where they should be, in his lap. You are planning to have them physically full time, right?

So be civil, and ask your husband for input on a schedule for child care. Don't confuse him OR your children by announcing your imminent departure and then acting as if you are still a family. Expect him to care for the kids for the times you agree upon. Outside of that, what he does is NOT your concern. Same thing with money. Set up an agreed upon support plan. Any money or finances outside of that is NOT your business. Get an attorney and do it legally if necessary.

Remember, this is what YOU have chosen. You need to act like it. You dont get it both ways - out of the marriage, but still running the show...

Karen, I can't tell you what you should do.

Honestly I don't disagree with your choice of action, what I am troubled by is motives. The same action with different motives can have so very different results. You may be in plan D, but the focus should STILL remain on you!

Thanks BrambleRose, for taking the time for me - again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Al-anon - my "one excuse" is that I don't want to go right now. I believe I already stated that before. Perhaps I used what I thought were 'nicer' words, to avoid being so blunt? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I totally understand what you're telling me, in that asking my H to do certain things now, is pretty much dumb on my part, b/c he's not capable. I"m not sure if you'll see this as an excuse, but for me it's a reason: I asked him those things to make sure that I knew I had asked him. No hints. No 'dancing around the issue'. Just out in the open, radical honesty. Of course I expect him to fail - he's on a circular path of destruction, and although he may not see it, *I* can see exactly what is coming up on the next turn.

I have been working on my responsibilities. It bothers me somewhat that things aren't progressing faster, b/c I have my plan, and I want it over and done with.

Some of the things to get done, I have to rely on H to help. For example, the gas bill has to be paid up in full ($300 is owing!) by Monday, before the account can be put in H's name. H gets paid today, and SAYS he'll pay it. If he doesn't, gas will be cut off.

Gotta go.... the twins are having "issues" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'll be back later.

Karen

Okay... so I took longer to get back to my thread than I had originally anticipated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have been doing a lot more thinking, and wracking my brain at times trying to think of what my motives in this situation are. BR, is what you're trying to say to me that my motives are to control this situation again? Because if that's the case, I already know that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm not justifying my actions, but it is one of the main reasons why I need to distance myself from this R - literally. I have not managed to control myself from my controlling behaviour while around H. That's just a pile of excuse, I know... and I am still working on it.

I'm still stuck in the "how do we act" mode? We're still talking as the best of friends, but there is NO physical contact whatsoever. We are still doing family things together, but that will stop once I'm gone (I'm still siding with plan B for at least a few months once I leave). His actions are just as confusing as my own - for example, I just got off of the phone with him after HE called me, just to say "hi! I won't be coming home for lunch, and I got the seatbelt to fix my truck". I"m withdrawing from him. I can feel it from deep within. And so typically, when I do, he starts coming out more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I"m so stuck on this "motives" thing now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's botching up my thinking patterns for when I leave here. That going into plan B thing. Okay... so if I go to plan B, why would I do that? Realistically, I need to distance myself from him as much as possible so that I can more easily focus on ME. At the same time, would going to plan B just mean I am trying to punish him for not being there for me? So in retaliation, I won't be there for him? But then why should I fulfil his needs as a spouse, when he's not willing to fulfil mine - and has NEVER done a good job at it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm getting myself in a tizzy over all of this.

Okay... one day at a time. Civil behaviour. I gotta be the better person here. No more revenge. Do what's best for me and the kids in the LONG run. Keep on packing my things. Keep on following through with my leads on housing.

I will not ask H to stay here with the kids in the evenings anymore. I understand how my controller came out there again. But I am confused with what's best for the kids, I really am. But I know you're right... it's not MY responsibility to protect the R between him and our boys.... that's HIS responsibility. So I will NOT interfere anymore (now all I have to do is figure out what is considered interfering or not).

This is getting too long. I'm not sure if I have had many lightbulb moments during this post, but it sure does feel better to just get some of this confusion out of me.

Karen