To give you a little preface I'm going to post a letter I wrote to my Fiancee today. I am 23 and she is 22. We have been together for 7 years and were enagaged to be married in september. The letter basically describes everything I went through, but I reversed teh roles to try and make her see what she has done to me. I have not actually given her this letter and I am not sure I will. but I thought it would be the best way to introduce my story to this MB. As you will be able to tell by the letter I have been attempting a strong Plan A, but things may be quickly moving to a plan B. Any comments or thoughts are VERY appreciated.

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I want you to think back to that time oh so long ago when you loved me. More than that when you were IN LOVE with me. I want you to imagine all these things happen to you. Think about the feelings and reactions you would have.

We both start to grow a little distant and withdraw. You make a few attempts at communication but I mostly blow it off. I start to go out with friends without you and get really drunk. I come home smashed and acting like someone else. You are worried about me but don’t think too much about it. See you have been very busy at work and don’t feel like going out and you are glad I am having a good time with my friends. Twice I go out with my friends like this, and it seems as if I’m having fun and you are happy for me.

The third week rolls around and you are excited because you can and will go this time. But what? What? I don’t invite you. No big deal you think, I must have just forgotten to ask. So you call me and ask if I would like you to come tonight. My response? “If you want…”. Odd you think…He was always so excited for me to go before. Still you don’t think much of it so you say “Well do you want me to go?”. I reply “I don’t know”. Even stranger you think. I ask to call you back because I am in a restaurant. You sit and wait for my call, and then when I do call I say “I think I would rather be alone tonight”. Now you are really worried. You know what is going on. There must be another woman. Even though you had asked me just the day before if there was someone else you know there can be no other reason for me to act this way. So you ask me to come home and I do.

When I get home I tell you a long story about how you don’t want the things I want. I try and make you feel like it’s your fault I’m leaving. I deny there is another woman. I say I was just out with some friends. I actually look you right in the eye and say “I respect you too much to cheat on you.”. When none of my reasons for wanting to leave you make sense I simply say “It just feels right”. Because I know you can’t argue with that. You even say I may loose you forever if I leave. I reply “I’m willing to take that risk. You love me more than anything on this earth so you immediately make changes to make our lives better. You rethink everything with me in mind. You dedicate yourself to making me happy and making US happy. And still I don’t seem to respond. I seem distant and I ignore your affections. This hurts terribly.

The next day you talk with me and I seem to be responding and things seem to get a little better. But the next day I tell you I want to stay with a friend over the weekend. That I want to have some alone time to get my head straight and figure things out. You say “I can’t stop you…but I will miss you.”. And so I leave our home and I take off for the weekend. You go and stay with a girl friend so you are not alone during this time. You only call me twice during this time just to let me know you love me so that I can have my alone time. Finally the hellish weekend without me is over and we are both back in our home. But what? Thing seem worse if anything. What happened?

So you ask and ask again what the real problem is. And finally I admit…”There is someone else”. You are devastated. I mean didn’t we both always agree that cheating was the worst thing you could ever do to someone? Weren’t we both angry and disappointed whenever someone we knew was involved in cheating? Didn’t we call Carmella a whore just for flirting with another man? And yet here it is. The person you care most about in this world has just done this worst thing to you. So what do you do? What can you do? You love me. You want to be with me until the end of time. Nothing can come between us even this. So you ask for the whole story. I tell you I talk to her at work a lot, and a few times on the phone. I tell you I have never seen her outside of work. EVER. You love me so much and trust me so much you believe me without a word and forgive me. You tell me its ok and we can get past this. You tell me all the great things you want to do to bring us closer. You ask “Have I convinced you we can make this work?”. I look up at you and say “You have made me want to find out.”. You are elated, you have a chance to win back the man you love.

The very next day I am acting distant again. I tell you I want to leave again. You can’t stop me so you ask me to talk to my friends and get others opinions. So I go and tell my friends half the story so that they can tell me the truths I want to hear. And I tell you that you can call my friend. Being so alone with no one to talk to you do call my friend. You need someone for support after all. I am leaving you constantly. You have to talk to someone. As you are talking to my friend he lets slip that I have seen this woman outside work. You are devastated, but the worst is yet to come. Right as my friend lets this slip his other phone rings. Low and behold it’s me, calling to tell my friend the lies I have told you and to ask him to lie for me. Hearing this you are so heart broken you can not believe it. You sit in bed staring at the ceiling feeling the worst pain you have ever experienced and you can not sleep.

At 3 in the morning I wander in to the house. I jump in to bed with you and smile. You ask “so what does this mean you want to work it out”. I say “Why do you think I’m here”. I say “I called her and told her we were going to work things out”. Being so hurt by the lies after you forgave me and made yourself trust me again you confront me. I get defensive and tell you another story. That I have only seen her the once outside of work. Again you love me so much and you are just so glad I am home that you forgive me. You trust me yet again. You believe everything I say is truth because you have always trusted me so much. I never lied to your face before…how could I do so now?

In the morning yet again I want to leave. You don’t understand. Didn’t I just come home and say I wanted to work things out? Yet there is nothing you can do. I am my own person. You simply tell me how much you love me and tell me to be careful. I promise you I will at least be home for the weekend so we can spend it together. I tell you I will be at a friends house but I don’t give you the number there. I talk to you while I’m gone always assuring that I am at my friends house. I even call on one of the nights I was meant to come home and tell you an elaborate story about a slumber party I am going to. All the while you are scared of losing me, but not worried I am lying to you.

Finnaly I come home for one night. We have another “honest” talk. I tell you a few more truths that shake your world. I did see her a few more times outside of work. She has told me she loves me and I love her. Still…it was only a few harmless encounters outside of work. I never even kissed her. Things are still ok. I mean how can I love someone I barely know? You again try your best to let me know how much you care and how much you will do to make things work. “Our” weekend rolls around and you make great plans. You pack a great picnic complete with all my favorite foods. You make CDs with some sappy love songs custom tailored to show you care. You take me to the beach for a candle lit picnic and profess your love for me. I smile and cry and everything seems perfect. You are so happy things are looking up. We go home and you give me a full body massage and things seem so great.

The next morning I seem a little distant…but you don’t worry too much. Last night was wonderful. I go off to work and leave you for the day. You worry a little because you know I will see her at work. You decide to show your affection and bring pictures to put on my car as a surprise. You write all your feelings down in a letter and put it in a box with a bow. You drive up to my work and put these things in my car and then sit and wait for me to come be surprised. When I come out I back away from you. I won’t hug you. I begin grabbing the pictures and just toss them in my car without a second look. You look on hurt and confused. You point to the box and I take it and open it. Seeing the letter I grimace and glance it over. I then toss it in my backseat. You are devastated. Still confused you ask me to come with you to the beach to talk. I say “don’t go anywhere!”. You are even more confused you ask why. I say “I don’t want to go anywhere with you.”. Even more confused you reply “What is the matter?”. When you get no real response you start to drive anyway because you have no idea why I would act this way. I scream! Startled you pull over and ask what the hell is going on. I jump out of the car and run to a coworker’s car and beg him to let me in. We then drive off and leave you crying in the parking lot on your knees.

You call and call trying to ask me what is going on. Finally I return your call and I am mean and distant. You get angry. For the first time in this whole process. Why would I treat you this way? You came to my work and poured out your soul and I spit it back in your face. Am I really just trying to hurt you? I must be there could be no other reason. You are devastated beyond words. And still I am cold and mean. I tell you I will not be coming home for “our” weekend. You don’t hear from me again until Monday when I come back to our house to pay some bills and get some things. I tell you I slept with her over the weekend. On OUR weekend. I tell you I love her and I stop telling you I love you. I tell you I am moving out and leaving you with the apartment and everything. I finally one last time come clean. Only this time you realize EVERYTHING I told you was a lie or half truth. Every time I wasn’t with you I was with her. At her house. Making out. Doing everything but sex. I kissed her the first night. A week before you even found out there was a problem. I was with her at the restaurant when you called. I don’t respect you too much to cheat on you. I have been cheating on you. I have been sleeping at her house every night. All my stories were clever lies. I have been sleeping in his bed for weeks. I was at his house the very weekend I told you I need “Alone time”. I never gave you a real chance I was just stringing you along while I had fun. While you were home agonizing over how to get me back I was sleeping in her bed.

What to do now? This is the ultimate betrayal. You have never hurt like this. You would chew off your own arm before going through this. And yet…You still find it in your heart to forgive me. You say you still want me back. You believe our love can be stronger than this and we can be a better couple. All these things you tell me and I blow you off yet again. I leave again for her house that very night.

I come back to separate stuff and you ask me if I have any doubts. If any part of me wants to be with you. I tell you no. I have bruises and hickeys all over me and you worry I am being abused. I simply smile and let you know it’s from kinky sex. Sex that is so different from sex with you. You are ok with this. You don’t care. In fact you want to hear it. But you still love and forgive me. Even though you know I am making love regularly to another woman. You tell me as much. And what do I do? Do I say thank you? Do I even give you a polite let me be? No I get angry at you for loving me. I tell you to leave me alone and let me be happy. That you are somehow hindering me by loving me. Once again you have offered up all that you are and had it spat back in your face.

Now I have left out hundreds of smaller things that tore me apart but the major ones are here. Tell me honestly. In my shoes would you have been half as good to me? Would you have forgiven me and loved me? I think not. I don’t think anyone would have. Now I feel the fool for loving you. You put me through the worst pain in my life. You did something we had often both agreed was the worst thing you could do to someone. You let me believe in you time after time as you lied to my face. You tore my world apart again and again. And through it all I wanted nothing more than to make you happy. I sat home thinking of the ways I could make you happy while you went to another mans bed. You left me alone to bleed while you were out having fun. I have been betrayed by the one person I trusted in this world. And after it all what do I have to say? I love you. That is all. I don’t try and make you feel bad. I don’t tell you that you are a horrible person. I simply tell you I love you.

Even now I am not sure you will ever understand what you put me through. I doubt you will even take any of this to heart. But to stop myself from becoming an angry bitter person I wrote it anyway. I want you to be happy. You deserve to be happy. But you didn’t have to sacrifice me up on the altar in order to get that happiness. If he had real feelings for you he would have waited while we worked through our problems. He would have meant it when he said “I don’t want to be that guy”. You could have at least let me know you were unhappy. I would have made you happy. None of it can be changed now.

I still love you and I probably always will. Who can say if one day we will be together. A large part of me wants nothing more. But I find myself with a lot of anger now. A lot of anger at what was done to me and how I was treated by the one I loved most. I have forgiven you. But none of it changes the fact that you cheated on me and our marriage was warm in its grave while you slept with him. And all of it you have no regrets or remorse. You are happy with the way things turned out. And so I move on and bury my true love.

May we both find happiness…I always loved you.

Some more background...

The night I called her when she was with him and the whole thing came to a head was October 26 2002. So I am about 3 weeks out from our D-day and she has been seeing him for 4.

Also her OM is 30 and she is 22. He has a 7 year old daughter and she has admitted to me she knows his child draws her to him. She is his supervisor at work. She makes more money than him if that matters.

OK...beware...going to be brutally honest.

The two of you have been together since childhood. One of the big problems with this is that we grow and change so much during these years. And often we discover that what met our needs at 16 no longer do so.

Since you're not legally tied together, now is the time to decide if you're able to stay on the same path through life. It doesn't sound as if she can or wants to. Sorry. I know that isn't what you are looking for, but if you haven't created a family together and if you haven't signed on that dotted line...I think I'd try my best to get on with my life.

Maybe after a while of separation, and you becoming the best you that you can become, she'll notice and want to re-establish a life with you...but I wouldn't wait.

Betrayals rip the heart and soul right out of us. I don't know that I'd be willing to risk my happiness on her at this point. I know you've already have a lot invested in this relationship, you love her, want her back in your life, but you can't keep the relationship going if she isn't willing to help repair the damage done.

As for your letter...it's not bad. Turning things around may make it easier for her to understand...but remember...unless you've been betrayed for real...what you imagine isn't half what it's really like. She'll never completely understand the depths of your sorrow and pain, until she lives it.

If you choose to keep alive the relationship, read up on the information here on site. If you have the courage and strength to do a plan A, it may help not only the relationship, but it also has the main goal of getting yourself into position/condition of becoming better for YOU. There is also Plan B, which is where we remove ourselves as much as possible from the WS and let them sink or swim on their own. Read up on both.

Good Luck on wherever your healing path takes you. Know that whatever you choose to do, you can come out of it a better person.

I don't think the problem is we have changed in any dramatic way. When I see her, I can tell she is still my girl. The major cause is that we both withdrew from each other. I was engaged in my job and my own hobbies and began to neglect and ignore her. She in turn withdrew because of it. Neither of us made honest efforts to fix it and it went on for about a month. At the tail end of this withdrawal this guy moved in and started telling her everything she needs to hear. I mean exactly, like "It was the same in my relationship" "We lived separate lives and I am so glad I left her now". So he jumped right in and filled a ton of her EN when I wasn't.

We haven't changed and are no longer compatible. We just stopped trying for a little bit and he moved in. I definitely see the causes of our distance and accept my share of the blame for everything that happened. I am working in the true spirit of Plan A as I understand it. Improving myself and hoping she sees it.

It may or may not be time for plan B I'm not sure. She has moved out and spends most nights at the OMs house rather than where she technically lives. So I am mostly forced in to no contact anyway. But when contact does take place I try and keep up a strong plan A. Do you think its time to switch?

Thanks for any thoughts,

Duane

Duane,

I say go for plan B..DO NOT Send THE LETTER....
They do not work, they do not work...

I say go into plan B... I think more men should think seriously about this as an effective move.
There are many, many , good reasons to just let her contact you...You can still be in contact with her in my plan B.. What I mean by that is that when she contacts you..(and she will), just be HAPPY just the way things are.. Do not ask any questions about what is going on in her life, just be nice, upbeat, and end all contact FIRST... This makes them wonder why we are not chasing them and sometimes get curious about what you are doing.....This type of plan is not easy, because it actually is HARDER to leave them alone than it is to do things that dont work, such as pursuing, and chasing , and calling, and driving by and snooping....

Once you come to a point that you can just leave them alone if that is what they want, you will see and experience how good it can work to get someone back.. While you are waiting for her to contact you(and she will) start working on being happy, and trying to act happy.... When she calls just be nice, and let her feel that maybe you are moving on. Once you start to head in the direction of leaving them go, you cannot afford to have a pursing mistake again.... She will test you....

You can hang in there with plan A, without plan B, but I KNOW for a fact that leaving them alone, works far, far more often than trying to pursue gently.. They never get to see life without us and
actually miss us....

Just my opinion and I wish you the best in your trial....Remember women love confident, happy , secure men...

I have debated that quite a bit. The only problem I see is that she will see it as me slipping back in to old habits that were the reason she left me. The main problem for us was lack of communication and neglect. If I move on to plan B then perhaps she will feel justified that my efforts weren’t honest and that I will always neglect her.

Thoughts?

She called twice on the home phone during hours when she knew I was at work and left messages. She has always called me at work during those times before so I guess she was avoiding me. That made me a little angry because I am doing my best not to call her and by leaving messages she tries to force me to call her.
When she left we agreed she would have the money out of the savings account to live off of and I would take what was in the checking. It was the same amount of money so I had no problem with it. This week of course funds were tight for both of us but we both get paid today. I had brought my funds right down to the wire but I wasn’t really concerned. I got a message from her that she used money out of the checking account to buy tampons and to buy her mom lunch because her mom was broke. I got really angry about this. I yelled at her and told her "I wasn’t going to dip in to your money when I was through all of mine so what the hell?". I told her at best we are friends right now and you wouldn’t charge things to a friends account without permission would you? She of course said she was sorry and all that but it didn’t stop me from being angry. I know you will all say "why didn't you close the joint account" well because we were waiting until the end of this month so we could pay bills with it. We had an agreement, I never really worried about it. I'm not really worried about the money and she said she would bring me the cash, but the fact that she did it pisses me off.

After that we had some normal conversation. I told her the good news at my work (My boss who I hate is leaving) and we talked about her Grandma who is sick in the hospital. She asked how I was doing etc and seemed almost like my fiancee again. The conversation ended well enough I guess after I settled down from bring so angry.

Anyway as soon as bills are paid next week I will be getting my own account and we will be closing the joint one. I've mostly been trying to avoid love busters and do a plan A approach. I know a lot of you are opposed to that and think I should just cut my losses and move on, but I really do love her and want her back despite all that has happened. I don't want to be a door mat, but I do want to do *my* best to make things work. I think the fact that we aren't married and don't have kids is even more reason it could work out. Because if we do work it out it will be because thats what we wanted not because we are obligated to.

I worry about her more than I worry about myself now. Lately I feel like whatever happens I will be ok. I make a decent living and I have options. She doesn't make as much and has fewer options available. I worry she will get stuck moving in with the OM and staying in a relationship longer than she wants. I also worry quite a bit that she will stay in the relationship for his kid. I know her and she is a very mothering nurturing person and I know she is in love with his child. I hate to see her stay in a relationship for a child that isn't even her own.

Lately I start to wonder if I really could take her back now. The answer I always come up with is yes but I never even questioned it before. A lot of my friends say she wont come back until I am over her, I hope that’s not the case but I can feel myself starting to get over her. Of course every time I see her I fall right back in to the "I love you and I want you back no matter what" mode.

I am starting to become more and more secure on my own and it almost scares me. I am actually afraid that by the time she comes back I won’t love her any more. The idea sounded silly a week ago but now it seems like a real possibility.

So this whole weekend I found myself really angry. Angry at everything she did to me. Angry that she puts me last in everything she does still and angry at the whole situation. I went out with some friends and made myself talk to girls and such. I find myself loving her less and less every day. It actually scares me because I know any day now I'm going to wake up and not want her back. I know it sounds silly that I am scared of that but I really am.

Basically she will ONLY come and see me and take care of the things we need to get done when HE is working and she has the day off. I know that he is her "Boyfriend" and he should come first or whatever but seriously, once in a while she could do things on my schedule.

It’s like I have to feel privileged to be given just a scrap of her time. I'm pretty well sick of it. She called this morning and we really got in to it. I told her how I felt and she pretty much told me that’s not how it is. I'm so angry and I hate it. I don't want to hate her but I'm starting to. By all rights I probably should hate her but I just don't know how.

She is coming over tomorrow and it will probably be the last time we see each other. I refuse to be walked on anymore. We are going to divide up our stuff and pay the bills and then we are done. We have nothing else we need to see each other for.

I'm very saddened that I will probably never see her again, but well it really seems like the way it has to be now. She just doesn’t seem to care about me at all. I confronted her and asked if she really felt we were friends and she said no. I am mad at myself for forgiving her. I am very mad at myself for not being able to just say good bye and leave it at that. I honestly should hate this woman.

I'm rambling I know. I just have all this pent up anger and its flowing out of me.

Bottom line I guess is that plan A is done. I don't know if it would have made a difference anyway. How can my actions mean anything when she lives with him? I will never be able to compete. Time to move on I guess. I don't think she is ever coming back as much as it kills me.

Well later that day she called and tried to cancel on me. I was pretty pissed because there are some things we really need to take care of. Then she offered to come over wednesday instead buty she would have to spend the night because she gets off work at 10 pm. I think she is just playing on my weakness and knew that I would jump on any chacne to haver her spend the night. I felt a little of that but realistically I know she will just sleep on the couch and it will be awkward anyway. Problem is I agreed to it because wednesday is really better for me because I don't have to take off work to get this stuff done. Really annoying that it worked out that way because I feel used now since she had planned to do this stuff today for 2 weeks and then she canceled on me.

Oh well, gonna try and go plan A for our last day together and then implement a semi-plan B I guess. That is never initiate contact but wont discourage her from contacting me.

Any thoughts/Advice?

Duane:

Check out this set of Q&A Columns that deal with preparing for marriage.

You'll notice that a large part of the focus is on choosing the right partner, as opposed to working through the current problems. Those of us who are married spend time dealing with marital problems---infidelity, unmet needs, angry or withdrawn spouses---because we ARE married, and because there are often children involved.

You're not married, and there are no kids. Can you work this out? Yeah, maybe. Should you??? I would caution you to think this over carefully---you're dealing with the typical anger that comes from being on the receiving end of infidelity. That's never easy to deal with, to recover and end up with a better, stronger relationship than you had before. There are successful recovery stories here (I consider myself one of them), but even among those successes are a sizable percentage who feel that their marriage has been tainted and that miss the old days where they didn't look at their spouse and say "they cheated on me".

My advice to you would be to end the relationship and move on. If not, then study up on Plan B (a no-contact separation with you delivering a solid Plan B letter to her) and move to that soon.

In my mind we were married, we just hadn't done the paper work yet. We were together for 7 years and lived as a married couple. I don't think the actual marriage matters that much. People don't stay together over paperwork in the county clerk’s office, they stay together because they love each other enough to get through it. IMO anyway.

Duane,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my mind we were married</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not worried too much about your mind. It's your fiancee's that concerns me. She clearly isn't acting as if she was "married".

Although you may feel you are married, you are not. From a Christian perspective---you're not. From a legal perspective---you're not. From having to deal with a divorce and the trauma inflicted to the children---you're not there yet. You're young---I remember being 23 once, and having just broken up with my girlfriend of 6 years (and we were planning on getting married too). Breaking up was traumatic at the time, but it was the right decision. Regardless of what happens with this relationship, you will survive.

If you're serious about trying to save it, I'd suggest that you call the counseling center here and schedule a phone appointment with Steve Harley (888-639-1639). Based on your posts, you're reacting too much to the situation---a good plan A (or plan B) is centered around consistency in exhibiting good relationship behaviors, regardless of what your spouse is doing. Steve would help you to set up a plan to do this, if you're set on trying to save this relationship.

I've thought about talking to one of the Harleys but I’m not in a good place financially at the moment and probably won’t be until this stuff works out.

At any rate the fact that I am young and not married doesn't change how I feel. But I have started to let go. She is coming over tonight to pay the bills and separate the last of our stuff. After that there will be no reason to see her again and I probably won’t. I have no doubt that her new relationship will end, and she will probably want to come back at some point. I'm not sure anymore if I would take her. Every day it gets harder and harder to tell myself I will. Of course when I am actually faced with it I don't know if I could possibly have the strength to say no.

I still love her and want to be with her every second of every day. But I have gotten much better at controlling my emotions and allowing logic to take over. I have even started going out and talking to women and will probably start dating soon. A very large part of me still hopes she will come back, but I am preparing for the worst.

Maybe I am naive, but I really have no control over things I feel. Hopefully having control over things I do will be enough to bring those damn emotions around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Duane,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I am naive, but I really have no control over things I feel.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the truth for all of us. I didn't mean to come across saying that your feelings aren't valid---this will be an extremely traumatic situation to deal with. But from the practical side (and I give this advice to married couples too)---it's going to be traumatic whether you end the relationship or reconcile. And based on your personal situation (unmarried, no kids, young), it's my feeling that you'll be better off in the long run married to someone who hasn't done this---it's a big piece of baggage to carry for the next 60 years of a marriage.

However, spend the time studying up on Harley's concepts of how to make a relationship great---and practice them the next time you have the opportunity (assuming that your current relationship ends). Although Harley's methods can really rescue a marriage in a disasterous situation, they're even more effective when applied to a new relationship, to help ensure that you won't be going through something like this again.

Good luck, regardless!

Sometimes I think that I would be better of with a girl who never cheated on me and then other times I think statistically 80% of marriages or some such horrible number deal with this. If we dealt with it now and managed to work through it perhaps we would be lucky. God forbid I marry some other wonderfull woman and she cheats on me during marriage which is more than likely to happen.

Anyway just some ramblings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she cheats on me during marriage which is more than likely to happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The idea of finding someone new, and doing the MB work up front (no lovebusting, identifying and meeting needs, being completely honest) is that the chance of this happening goes way down.

In general, people cheat in their marriages because of unhappiness and opportunity. Harley's program is designed to teach you skills to reduce marital unhappiness and behaviors to eliminate the "opportunities" to have extramarital affairs.

Duane,

I had to jump in here as I noticed a lot of similarities between what you and I are going through. I am recently married (just one year) and in a very similar situation. WW is off having a PA with OM, and yet I still want to reconcile.

We DO have a marriage, but it's a fresh one, and no kids or financial problems, so it WOULD be easy to just let go as K suggested you may want to do, considering the baggage you'd carry through a marriage, plus the lost trust betwen you and your WW.

However, right now your heart tells you differently. You still have some love for her or else you won't be here. She isn't giving you anything back at all, but that's what they normally do. As their A continues, they are not going to give you ANY sort of positive feelings, or meet any of your ENs. This is normal.

You say you know her new relationship will fail. My WW has said the same thing about hers. But it's what is making them happy right NOW. So, they continue. You and your fiancee go way back, there obviously once WAS some love there.

It's really hard to Plan A when you think of what they're up to. Believe me, I'm there right now. But some great people here have told me to try and let go of all those feelings, to not ask or wonder what they're up to, and just worry about yourself. Going out, spending time with friends, sleeping well, eating right, exercising, all things you can do for YOU right now to make you feel better.

My WW moved out and is on her own right now. Very similar to your situation. I also have opted to let her contact me if she needs, but do not plan to contact her unless it's absolutely necessary.

I wish you luck, I know exactly how you feel right now and how hard this is. But I do sense that you still have some love for this girl, and if so, don't turn your back on that just yet. In time, especially if she keeps treating you as badly as she is, your love will fade and it will be so much easier to let go.

Or, if you Plan A for a while and she comes out of the crazy fog she's in, and there's still love left, you can welcome her back and try and work on your relationship. Or maybe at that point you'll just politely tell her you're moving on with your life on your own. But at least at that point, you've got the peace of mind that you gave it your best, and you don't have to live your life wondering what MIGHT have been had you and her worked things out.

Just my two cents. Feel free to ask me any more questions or just vent, as I am going through similar feelings. Some days I feel I can welcome her back, others I feel like it would be too hard to spend the rest of my life with her, that her A will ALWAYS be on my mind. They don't call it the rollercoaster for nothing.

--ALS