For any of you who have taken legal action against an alcholic being in posession of minors.. how did it go?

Thanks, H

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For any of you who have taken legal action against an alcholic being in posession of minors.. how did it go? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you ask? Are you going to base YOUR decision on the outcome of others?

Take care of your boys. Do not risk them being in an unsafe situation. Don't take that chance.

Hugs.

Not to worry you all,

This is afterall, a "functional" alcoholic that we are talking about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have found this term for alcoholics to be ludicrous in describing their abilty to function WITH a dependence on alcohol.

posted on previous thread by ba109
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Put your two boys in the back seat of his car, strap them in and then tell them..."Not to worry now...Daddy is a "functional" alcoholic. You'll be just fine."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad to see that a few more of you are getting on the bandwagon. Honey's kids are not safe with this man.

Honey's kids do not have a choice whether or not to get in the back seat of that car. She does!

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Honey,

Why didn't you call the police?

They would have stopped him, seen the open container...or at the very least...seen that he had been drinking.

There would then be a police report to back up your claims that he should not be allowed unsupervised visitation.

This is not a game Honey, this is a life and death situation that YOU are putting your children into.

Hello Honey,

I don't think you'll remember me--a while ago I told you that I would respect your wishes and not post to you any more (because the type of support I could give was not the type of support that is helpful to you). Please forgive me for renegging on that now, and please continue reading for the reason I am doing so.

I also had to find a way to protect my kids from riding with their father when he was under the influence while, at the same time, not undermining him or his love for our kids. The solution was very successful (they NEVER got in a car with him if he had been drinking).

If you would like the details, just ask and I will tell you--and I will limit my response to this subject only. If you still prefer that I not reply to your threads at all, I will respect your wishes--and I ask that you forgive me for responding to your thread this time.

Honey - again you are getting angry and everyone is just trying to help you - You know if I told my husband he could not take the children when he was drunk and stood my ground and told him hey if you have a problem you call the police and I will let them deal with it - I don't think that any officer - would let someone who has been drinking functioning or not drive around with the children in the car..I mean you yourself said he had an open beer can in the car - you said you saw it - we didn't see it - you saw it - don't get angry at everyone here because they are trying to help you - You were sounding so good with the child support issue - and money is important but so is the well being on those two children - and to allow them to be in the car is just plain wrong - and you know that it is wrong but you don't want to alienate Jim anymore right???

Honey,
Visitation and Child Support are 2 separate issues.

He should have visititation, but if he is not sober, his visitiation can be made to be supervised, think MRS. DOUBTFIRE, where the Robin Williams character has shortened and/or supervised visits.

He should have been paying CS, if he could afford a maid last spring, he could afford CS.

If we go to court over this.. this alcoholic will prove , despite his lying about it, that he is a stable parent

I don't understand why you think this? How is he stable? He's paid no regular child support. He doesn't have a job. And, if you have to call the police so that your kids don't ride with him when he's drinking, that too will be on the record showing he's NOT stable.

Getting all of this legally nailed down is in the best interests of you and your children. It may anger him, it may alienate him, which I know you don't want, but at least you won't have to deal with the "what ifs" of his drinking & driving with the kids.

Alcohol may be an addiction, but it also has an element of choice--choosing to buy booze, choosing to hang at bars, choosing to pick up the glass, choosing to have a can of beer in the car.

If these are the choices he's making when he's with your kids, then he's choosing against the loose arrangements the 2 of you have had with visitation and bringing you to the point where there need to be legal arrangements.

I know you love him, but that doesn't pay the groceries or keep your kids safe.

Just wanted ya'll to know... I am feeling attacked.. I am doing the best I can one step at a time.. today's step is to discuss at counseling with ws what he is doing with counselor if he shows.

For everyone's info: I did not see him drinking or with open container.. this is info from a 10 yr old.. who lately has been known to lie to get his dad in trouble.. as he is soooo angry with his dad... . My son is in D.A.R.E. at school....

Anyway, by no means taking any of this lightly. MY ws PROMISED no drinking with kids this weekend... and according to son, he did. DO not know how drunk the man was, or if even drunk.. or if just drank beer over the wkend. I do know son sd he had open container on way home to our house....

I feel attacked. I am looking out for my kids, and do appreciate advice.. just not attacks.

Thanks, H

Thanks to everyone.. NO MAW I am not mad... just some of what I wrote is being misconstrued a bit... the comment that I SAW the beer can .. is not something that happened.. don't know if I wrote that..

Anyway.. YETAGAIN... I am interested in the kids knowing not to get in car with a drinker... is that the point. MY 10 yr old can do this, I think, the baby is 4, no he can't decide.. but if they are together- perhaps..

I do want this under control, and for those of you who think I willingly let this happen.. the answer is I did not.. I have tried to comply with biweekly visits to be fair morally, legally, etc. The drinking and driving or even supervising kids drunk - if it is happening, is not acceptable to me. HE PROMISEd.. not that I believe him, but I am TRYING... to not alienate a sensitive knee jerking alcohlic - this is one day at a time folks.

Also- BA- the sarcasm and the rolling eyes are offensive, I see your point, but can you put it nicely?

And for whoever wrote am I seeking opinions to base my response on that? NO. I am just seeking experience with dealing with a alcholic and how other parents dealt... HEY I MIGHT GET A NEW IDEA?

Thanks to everyone, no one could be more concerned than ME about MY KIDS.. no I am not blind, just in a DIFFICULT situation. I appreciate all feedback, but no dart throwing please. This is a difficult situation. I am not taking it lightly, but still am a sensitve person.. no not angry at any harshness, but sensitve to it.

Thanks again.

H

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Honey,

I personally could give a hoot if you feel attacked over this drinking issue that you continuously try to excuse. Do you ever get the feeling that some of us care more about your kids then you do?

The fact of the matter is that eventually your WS's and your luck is going to run out and those kids will be in the back seat (not by their choosing) of his car when it does.

How can you NOT choose to protect them from that?! Talk about a major LB...against your children.

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Honey - I apoligize I misunderstood what you wrote because you wrote OS said he drank all weekend then you wrote WOW he had an open beer can in the car on the way home - I just assumed that you saw it there - OK - sorry - I don't think you should feel attacked - and yes yours situation bites but so do alot of other peoples here and by talking to everyone and getting there opinions whether bad or good - basically I believe keep most of us sane - good or bad it is an opinion and it is obviously from people who care enough to take the time to read and respond - you don't have to agree and you don't even have to read them - but you are a grownup sensitive or not - the simple truth is that sometimes the truth hurts - and again I don't mean that in a bad way - but you have got to stop worrying about Jim and worry about yourself and your children - not your husband and your situation !!! You cannot control your situation only yourself... Good luck at counseling...

honey,

I have tried to comply with biweekly visits to be fair morally, legally, etc.

Does this mean that you have gone to court in regards to parenting time? Do you have some court sanctioned document that tells you that you HAVE to let your children go with him when he shows up? Has he petitioned for "visitation"? (hateful, hateful word) Does he have a document that allows him to remove them from their home and to take a ride with him? If there is no such paper that he can wave and flash....then you do not have to let them go. You might feel twinges of guilt because of the moral obligations to do what is right, but you cannot let that overrule common sense. He is behaving anyway but morally.

WOW- he had open beer on way home in car today.

This is what you said about the open beer. That statement can only lead us to believe that you saw it.

but I am TRYING... to not alienate a sensitive knee jerking alcohlic - His feelings are first and foremost in your mind at all times...aren't they? You really wouldn't put him above your children, would you?

You have the masses rising up here in defense of your children, you should recognize that the people here see the "innocents" in all of this and want was is best for them. No one is attacking you...we are all aghast at what could happen to your children. Be thankful that so many "strangers" do care. This isn't a "let's get honey" session.

You can decide for yourself whether you would get in a car with him. You can critique the situation and decide how drunk he is and if it is worth the risk for YOU to get in the vehicle and you would be the one living (or dying) with the consequences. Those children cannot make that type of decision. You are to make it for them.

Here is a legitimate question...one not meant to enrage you....

Do you post what you do in hopes of getting some type of outrage going over your situation and then when we all rise up, you let us know that it isn't as bad as you have let on? That is the feeling that I am getting. I sincerely hope that I am wrong. Because, it is either as bad as you are saying, or you are like the little boy crying wolf. When that happens, you find yourself with no one at all that even wants to listen, let alone help you brainstorm for an answer to the problem. Notice that I said..."an answer to the problem"...not "support so that you can continue in this crazy situation".

As Always, JMHO
committed

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Committed and Loving it,

I posted feedback on the situation and what happened.. for comments, thoughts, advice, ideas, etc. I see your opinion loud and clear, you divorced your alcoholic h and surely your opinion stems from that... perhaps you are still angry?

I am trying to STILL do the best I can to save a family and keep a home together, hoping that my H will recover.

My children's safety is of course more important <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> than my h's feelings...

Not sure if you met me in person you or anyone else would spew the anger you spew- or even on the phone.. I am a VERY NICE person.

Anyway, perhaps too nice.

Thanks for the thoughts... I appreciate them all.. just don't like being thrown darts at for asking for them.

I am not the boy who cried wolf.. that is another nasty comment.

Thanks, H

honey YOU said 'this is info from a 10 yr old.. who lately has been known to lie to get his dad in trouble'
if you don't believe it then why did ya post it here? you are grasping at straws. either your hubby is a drunk or he's not a drunk. which is it?
alot of ppl are spending time trying to help you but when they give advice you don't like then ya get all upset and say your attacked.
if he's drunk with your kids it's up to you to stop it. if he isn't and your son is lying it's up to you to stop that. ppl can only respond to what they see. i'd rather see ya mad then see you post about 2 kids in a wreck with a drunk daddy.

<<<I am interested in the kids knowing not to get in car with a drinker... is that the point. MY 10 yr old can do this, I think, the baby is 4, no he can't decide.. but if they are together- perhaps..>>>

So -- you are making it the children's responsibility to stay out of daddy's car when he's been drinking??

This is not their responsibility. If you know their father drinks and drives with them in the car, it's YOUR responsibility to get them out of that situation and KEEP them out of it. Shoving the responsibility onto two young children is NOT the solution.

They are NOT going to be able to keep him from yelling at them until they get in that car, or from simply picking them up and throwing them inside. What do you expect them to do then? Jump out while they roll down the freeway?

Look at it this way: YOU have not been able to stand up to this man. What makes you think a couple of young children are going to be able to stand up to him?

you divorced your alcoholic h and surely your opinion stems from that... perhaps you are still angry?

honey, I can say in all honesty that I was never angry that I had to free myself from a controlling, cruel, irresponsbible alcoholic. How could that possibly leave me angry? I can tell you what I was though...I was mystified as to how I got myself in the situation to begin with and why I let it continue for as long as I did.

Not sure if you met me in person you or anyone else would spew the anger you spew- or even on the phone..
I do not see where I am spewing anger. Those comments are not "angry" comments. They are comments that are thought provoking for you and I think you want to tag them as "angry". They are easier for you to handle that way.

I am not the boy who cried wolf.. that is another nasty comment. No, this wasn't nasty, I think that it is a legitimate one, albeit another thought provoking one at that.

Another thought provoking comment, I was raised that no one has the right to complain about something unless they are actively trying to change it or themselves in order to remove it from their life. I mean actively as in proper measures being done to remove yourself or to change yourself so that it no longer is a complaint.

Does that one raise your ire too?

Always,
committed

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

In response to psycho and committed....

Psycho- I have not said I am not doing anything about this, same goes to committed.

Neither of you two are active alanon members , correct? Neither of you live with an active alcholic, correct?

I do feel that you think- I am doing nothing... but that is not true... I am moving forward one day at a time.

Psycho.. I was responding to another posters post about what she did aobut the KIDS NEVER GETTING IN THE CAR.. sorry that you don't like my response to another poster.

I hate to see you people respond so harshly to my asking for opinions and suggestions.. and the ATTACKS... and the sarcasm and the rolling eyes... SERIOUSLY, we are adults.. and there is no reason for that.

I hate when I see that on the boards, and when I respond to people that they are doing it... being attacking or harsh.. I get the same old backlash usually... that 'I' Don't get it... well I just don't like the way people attack and ridicule.. without walking a day in MY SHOES.

I appreciate all advice and kind thought provoking comments... however couched in insults and sarcasm... isn't always the best way to find a reception..

Thanks, H

honey,
without walking a day in MY SHOES.

You know what? The majority of us HAVE been in your shoes. We have walked the very same path you are on now. We just chose to do what was best for our children.

What would give you the impression that your brand of misery is (or was) any worse than any of the rest of us?

You want support on this thread? Then tell us something like...

I WILL NEVER EVER LET MY CHILDREN IN A CAR WITH THAT DRUNKEN LOUT AGAIN!!!

That kind of comment would rally so many people around you that you would not be able to read the posts fast enough.

Always,
committed

P.S. What's with the comment about my not being in AlAnon? One does not have to be a member of AlAnon to have experience with alcoholics and their behavior. It neither validates or invalidates what I have to say. I can tell you this though, AlAnon cannot be the end all, be all that you claim if your actions are based on what you are learning there. JMHO

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

For the sake of your kids:

Please get your son to a counsellor.

You have said in numerous posts in the past month that your kids are not (have not been) affected by all this. Please quit kidding yourself and get THEM help.

You have also posted many references about the 10 year old hating his dad, being angry, etc. A 10 year old doesn't wake up angry and hating their dad. There is a reason for it, and it sounds like he needs help in dealing with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">who lately has been known to lie to get his dad in trouble.. as he is soooo angry with his dad

You have stated over and OVER about how important your kids are - PROVE IT. I personally have not seen any sign that they are more important than JIM to you.

I am not trying to bash you - I just want to see your kids get some help that they obviously need.

Honey, you wrote:
I am just seeking experience with dealing with a alcholic and how other parents dealt... HEY I MIGHT GET A NEW IDEA?

Exactly. That's what you are getting, our ideas.

And, even if we haven't walked in your shoes, a lot of us have some pretty ugly road behind us. My H isn't an alcoholic, but suffers from depression and hates anti-deps. Different problem, some of the same solutions.

I think you are still working very hard at protecting Jim from the natural consequences of his actions. That may make him occasionally more friendly to you, but does it problem-solve the very real issues and dangers of his drinking & driving?

Different states probably have different laws with parents & alcohol, but an open container in a car (illegal most states, I think?), with kids, there's a possibility if stopped by a policeman he could be charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors.

I remember my daughters going through the DARE program. Your son is likely being asked at school if his parents drink, where, and how often. Your son could alert the police that work this program to your H's habits without your knowledge.

That is a natural consequence.

Be very careful, Honey. Worrying about Jim's knee jerk reactions under these circumstances sounds very strange.

I'm not meaning to attack, just telling you how this looks.

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>