WH is asking details. He just asked me how many times OM and I had sex? I told him the truth (3) and he said it is so much worse than he thought it could have been. He says that i am sick and that I didn't just make one mistake. I let it happen over and over again. He doesn't want me, he is screaming at me and calling me a liar. I understand all of this but don't know how I will get through. Why must he know the details? So he can torture himself?

He made me get an STD screen today. It was humiliating and painful and I felt like just giving up. I really want this but I don't know if I can handle the bumpy road ahead. I am so good at running away and he is not letting me help him through this. Is there any hope of our marriage ever being a healthy one? I hope we make it to the first MC session on Monday.

BJF,

I had to know all of the details too. What he is feeling is normal. I wish there was a less painful way to get through this.

Please have patience and take care of yourself and be as kind to you H as you can. Blessings CSue

BJF,

Something positive you can do is this. Download the questionnaires on the site. Emotional Needs, and Love Busters.

Fill them out on behalf of your H. For instance write what you think his top emotional needs are. Then on to the love busters - write down what top love busters that he has - that you do.

When the time is right, check with him and see how accurate you are in understanding his top needs, and his biggest love busters.

This is action behind your words "that you want the M". It's just a small step, but it's something.

By the way - this board is slow on the weekends. Not as many posters. CSue

We all understand what you're going through. This is going to be the most difficult thing you and your husband will ever go through. His questions and rections are part of the healing process ... just like all the things you're experiencing are a part of yours. Just like CSue said ... be patient. Time is your friend.

I got this from a friend whose marriage is in recovery and it's a beacon:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A) You don't have to make any decisions today -- nothing has to be decided immediately; give it time, wait it out and see what happens.

B) You can only control your own actions, nobody else's. Somebody doesn't do something because you willed them to do it.

C) The car dealer that appears confident and offers a good product is the one that makes the sale; not the dealer that is emotional and begs for the sale.

D) Go above the call of duty. Put more in than you take out. Especially when it's difficult.

E) Listen to your gut, not your head. Do the right thing. Always. It may be difficult, but you'll never hate yourself for it.

F) If somebody wants space, give it to them.

G) Find ways to love yourself. Esteem is hard in this situation.

H) Don't bring up the past out of anger or to hurt; do it to clear things up and avoid bringing it up when there's no need.

I) Don't worry about being right. Do what works.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi bjayfly, I am a FWW one year into recovery. My H was devestated and said many of the same things your H is saying. He was hurt to the core, and became more depressed than I've ever seen him. He lost his appetite, something I've NEVER seen. Plus, he seem to have lost his zest for life, something people would often mention as one of him biggest charms. It killed me to see him like that, I thought he'd never be able to recover and feel the same about me. I was very scared he would one day decide to turn on me and just start treating me like complete sh*t.

Miraculously, he didn't. He plan A'ed me and he doesn't even know he did. It took about a month for the intensity of his anger to begin to subside. I took a lot of reassuring on my part I was truly there for him. We began spending more time together, and opened our eyes to what it is we married each other for.

We have had our ups and downs, he had a lot of triggers in the beginning. I weathered them out, and each time he told me he loved me for doing it. After wards we discuss what caused it, and ways to prevent it in the future. I definitely want to be sensetive of his feelings, but I also can't always read his mind. I've caused triggers before by doing things completely (or so I thought) unrelated to the A. Like running into an old friend at a restaurant who is now divorced and remarried to a new man and she has a new born baby. She looked all happy and glowing, it burned my husband up to see us talking. Caused a huge fight, which he later regretted greatly. He said he realized she was totally innocent in all of this, it was our issue.

I hope your husband is willing to give you a chance. I am so glad my H did, I now realize what I almost gave up, and it scares me to death!!

Good luck to you!! Must go now...

WH is asking details. He just asked me how many times OM and I had sex? I told him the truth (3) and he said it is so much worse than he thought it could have been. ? Why must he know the details? So he can torture himself?

My counselor told me that the price a WS pays for having an affair is that they have to answer all of the BS's questions over and over and over until the BS has no more questions to ask. And the WS has to listen to the BS express their pain and anger over and over until it is gone. Thank goodness my FWS took this to heart. For the first 3.5 months after d-day I could not talk about anything else.

At first I was driven and it was non-stop. After loosing a few nights sleep, we realized that the talking had be over with well before bedtime so that we could get some sleep. So we scheduled 1-2 hours daily, right after work in which I could bring up anything I wanted. As it turned out I seldom needed an entire hour. Just knowing that it was available gave me some peace of mind.

There is one thing that I realized early on? there are some things that I do not want to know. They make the pictures that run through my mind worse. So I did not ask much detail about the type of sex they had, etc. I asked more generic questions. For example, he had a weekend fling the week after we got married. He'd returned home to pack and move to my home. It gave him an opportunity to have this date he'd planned weeks before.. he even paid her air fare for the visit. All I asked about their encounter (the only time there were ever together in person) was phrased like this. "I know how you are sexually.. you are going to get as much as you can and do everything a woman will let you do as your appetite is very strong. If I'm wrong about that .. if it was just boring/nothing much let me know. But without any clarification from you, I will assume that the weekend was about as bad as I could image." His reply was a slight nod of his head, then he hung his head.. he was ashamed. Many BS ask very detailed questions? it is not a good idea for most BS to get those details. But it is your H's call not yours.

We had the agreement that if I asked a question that would give me too much raw detail, he would ask me if I realized what I was asking. But if I insisted then he was to answer my question honestly.

There is a very good reason for all the questions. Many WS think that the BS is sedistic and just wants to torture both themselves and the WS. That is not the case. An affair is a huge breakdown of intimacy. We are most intimate with those who know our secrets. You, the WS, has a huge secret. By letting your BS into your secret world, you are giving him the gift of intimacy. Another reason is that in order to go on with your marriage your BS, and really you too, need to come to understand the affair.. the why's about it. The only way you are going to figure this out is if you both talk.

I've gathered some statistics on affairs. One of the most telling is that a couple's ability to recover and go on to have a healthy marriage is in direct proportion to the amount they talk about he affair. If you do not talk to him, answer his questions and listen to him express his anger, then you are making sure that your marriage will fall apart.

You chose to put this pain on your husband.. you went out of your way to do it. Now it's only right that you go out of your way to help him. Your reluctance to discuss the details are more a form of selfishness and self protection. That is all. In a way you are lucky, you only have one week to explain? my H had 2.5 years. It takes no courage at all to have an affair? because most WS's do it believing that they will never get caught. Telling your H, answering his questions and standing before him takes courage.. maybe more courage than you have ever had to dig up. It certainly will be a character building experience if you go through this the right way.

Remember that you must never lie to protect him.. when a person who has been lying, lies to protect, they are not protecting. They are only proving one more time that they cannot be honest. That they are a liar. I would rather hear the hurtful truth than be lied to. Lying does not protect, is show gross disrespect.

I let it happen over and over again.

When you first told us about your affair it sounded like it was a one-time slip up. Now it's looking more and more premeditated and involved. Please continue to be very honest with your H about all of this. He needs you to be. Also, do not be surprised if your friend, the one you traveled with , knows of your affair. It's a very hard thing to hide when someone is right there with you.

He doesn't want me, he is screaming at me and calling me a liar. I understand all of this but don't know how I will get through.

You may recall that there are laws about crimes of passion. Until a person has been cheated on, they really do not realize the depth of the pain and the transgression. Your H is in a real state of shock. I reacted like your H did is in the first 2-3 weeks after d-day. On d-day I discovered two of his affairs. I had emailed one of the women asking her to phone me at home? she did. After she and I talked for a while I handed him the phone.. told him that a friend wanted to talk to him. When he heard her voice he simply said ? "guess I screwed up and hung up the phone." I lost it. I started hitting him (I never hit anyone in my normal state.) and cussing and throwing things. I was totally out of control. This is not an unusual reaction.

Another reaction I had was that for several weeks after d-day there were a few times when my H walked into the room and I started to faint. Just seeing him was horrible. Just knowing that he could do that to me was beyond anything I could believe. My reaction to my H's infidelity was the worse emotional pain I have ever felt. In 1986 I gave birth to still born twins? even that was nothing compared to this. I've asked myself why? I believe the reason is that as painful as the death of the twins was, it was an act of nature. No one purposely did it to hurt me. With infidelity, the very person who has promised to love and protect us has purposely abused our trust. They have purposely hurt us. Many WS say their actions were not to purposely hurt the BS.. . they have nothing to do with the BS. But when a person knows that harm will be done, and they go ahead with the affair anyway, it becomes a purposeful action.

I'm going on here in an attempt to make your realize that your H's reaction is normal. To make you realize the depth of his pain. It's worse than having a spouse die. Actually in the first few weeks after d-day I felt that my husband had died and I could not mourn him publicly. Instead I had a stranger, who scared me, living in my home.

Most BS's cannot function normally for months after d-day. For the first 12 months I went to work every day and just stared at my computer. I could not do anything.. could not think or concentrate. Thank goodness I had a very good team working for me. They did not know why I suddenly became non-functional but they did pitch in for me.

It seems that most WS just think that the BS should have a good cry and move on. That is not how the human psyche works. Hopefully your H will get ahold

He made me get an STD screen today. It was humiliating and painful and I felt like just giving up.

Excuse me.. but this is the right thing for you to do. I had to go get an STD test too.. I also had to tell the doc why. You want to talk about humiliating????? By your taking the tests, your H does not have to. I'm curious as to why you think you should not have taken a test? Aids and other STD's are very prevalent.

I really want this but I don't know if I can handle the bumpy road ahead. I am so good at running away and he is not letting me help him through this. Is there any hope of our marriage ever being a healthy one? I hope we make it to the first MC session on Monday.

If you want your marriage to work you are going to have to stop running. It's that simple. He may very well not let you help him through this for a while. Before he can let you near him again he will probably need proof from you that you are not going to run away. What you do is your choice and it will go a long way to determine the future health or existence of your marriage.

I read on your other thread that he wants to talk to his family about this for support. He does need support. He had no input into your having the affair? you did that unilaterally. Now he has to seek help where he can get it. It is his prerogative to talk to whomever he needs to for support. I hope that your relationships with his family will survive this. Affair affect not only the marriage, but everyone close to the couple. We all learn some hard truths when infidelity enters our lives.

I wish you and your H well.

Why must he know the details? Please read this and it may give you totally new insight on the reasons for the BS's need to know... The Need to Know & Joseph's Letter

Oppss,,almost forgot.

About the STD test. Your H was VERY wise to ask you to get the STD test and I'm sure you know that. Pleasant? No,,but extremely important. And I sincerely hope and pray that the tests also involved a gyn physical, not just the urine and blood tests. There are some STD's that can not be detected without the physical. I hope and pray for good results.

"Joseph's Letter" is awesome.

I'd like you get your H let him read my response.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bjayfly:
<strong>WH is asking details. He just asked me how many times OM and I had sex? I told him the truth (3) and he said it is so much worse than he thought it could have been. He says that i am sick and that I didn't just make one mistake. I let it happen over and over again. He doesn't want me, he is screaming at me and calling me a liar. I understand all of this but don't know how I will get through. Why must he know the details? So he can torture himself?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did EXACTLY the same thing your H is doing now! The screaming, crying, accusing etc., etc.. I did this for almost a month (my H, God bless him, put up with me)!! I asked for and got ALL the gory details.(Yes, with time the details fade in importance) One day, I was screeching and tormenting myself and him when it finally hit me...I can't do this anymore. Both myself and my H were exhausted. It was time to move on, either together or apart but, torturing one another perpetually was not the answer.

If he needs the details, then I, for one, say give them to him (some here will disagree). Your H must realize that he won't like what he hears and yes, it will haunt him for a while. He isn't trying to torture himself with the details, he's trying to make sense of this, trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle together so he can get a clear picture of what happened. A clear picture will enable him to make an informed choice about whether or not he can stay in the M. Is that not what you want? A H who loves you, in spite of your flaws and mistakes. Your willingness to be forthcoming is also an indicator of your honesty in trying to recover your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bjayfly:
<strong>
He made me get an STD screen today. It was humiliating and painful and I felt like just giving up. I really want this but I don't know if I can handle the bumpy road ahead. I am so good at running away and he is not letting me help him through this. Is there any hope of our marriage ever being a healthy one? I hope we make it to the first MC session on Monday.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Consider this...try being the BS (an unwilling participant in a WS sexual exploits) and being tested for std's. I made my H get tested, I also got tested myself. If your H doubts your integrity at all then he should go and get tested too. I know how uncomfortable and humiliating it is...I was subjected to the std testing too and I wasn't even the 'active' one! To be blunt, you have absolutely no right to put the health of another individual at risk. If you love and respect your H as you say you do, then this is the least you can do for him.

You can make it to Monday. If you want your M to work then hang in there. Don't accept any abuse, but on the other hand, don't expect 'smooth sailing' or forgiveness any time soon. Stop running and turn and face your H, your actions. You cannot change what you do not acknowledge.

bjayfly

I don't know if you read this but I thought it was important enough for you read it anyway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MrBjayfly:
I just wanted to tell all you how wonderful you all are. This has been a nutty couple of days. To bring you up to date, i've been able to sleep and eat a little bit. The w and i have been talking and wanting to work things out. sometimes i feel stupid for going along and forgiving her. She also just disclosed all the gory details about her week of weakness. i just feel like i don't know her anymore.
She is doing everything i've asked and more to make me feel better. We start MC on Monday and thats awesome. She tells me she doesn't love the om and that is why she is here with me. "why else would she go through all this pain if she wanted to be with him," is what she said.
I am so grateful to all of you and your posts. My wife and i have been reading the posts together, sometimes crying at how insightful, caring and right on you all are. I mean, you don't even know us and you're helping me in ways you can't even imagine. Or maybe you've been helped by others.
I really do feel lucky that my wife is proving her love for me and fighting for the marriage. My normal MO before the A was to avoid conflicts, try to put the best face on things and problem solve.
Some of those traits are applicable to this situation, others are direct opposites. I honestly felt for 31 years that if an individual strays and makes a mistake, that it is the WS burden to bear this mistake. I also resolutely believed that i would leave my spouse if they betrayed me in this way because i would never be able to forgive and forget. The marriage would be ruined like a priceless mirror that had a rock thrown into it or mud splattered on it. Sure you can look at the reflection, but will you like what you see.
My wife is doing everything she can. She listens, she comforts she hugs. We even almost went skiing this weekend. But that would be a farce. Its been three days and during a nice, reconciliation dinner she intimated (on my proding) more details about the A that made it feel like i just found out for the first time. We went right back to where we started, oh my god i don't know if this is worth it, why did this happen to me.
My natural instincts are to heal and make things easier for my wife.I do want her to know i love her.I don't want to torture her.I have always been the strong one, and even though i felt that i could never stay in a tainted marriage, its a different story once it happens to you.
This is still the woman I fell in love with, shared interests with and is my best friend. I am lucky that she is fighting for me and the marriage.
This has been the craziest trip. I gain strength from your statements and your posting. My wife and i met on the internet, and know our marriage is being saved by the internet. Thank god for Al Gore!!! Psych..(Your H is not too far gone if he's cracking a joke like that one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )
Please keep posting, its really helping.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

BJFLY, you wrote

"WH is asking details. He just asked me how many times OM and I had sex?"

What sort of a slip is this? You are the WW he is the BS. Are you perhaps thinking he is wayward because he doesn't like it when you throw your toys around?

Dear BJF:
IMHO, Knowledge is power. Once we have the knowledge of the gory details we will be better empowered to handle it and know what we are up against. Yes, knowing isn't pretty. But give him some time to digest it and I like what someone else posted " the details will fade".
I'm still waiting for all the details in order for them to start fading.....

BJAYFLY

I POSTED THIS TO YOUR H:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mr BJF

Your last entry is best reason I can think of on why everyone here advocates telling the entire complete truth upfront. The betrayer thinks that they are sparing our feelings, and protecting themselves too, but in reality it is even more agonizing for both parties. With each revelation comes a new fresh feeling of betrayal and broken trust and unimaginable hurt. Just when you start to "grasp" what you have been told and start processing what has happened, another bomb drops, then another and another. It gets to the point where you don't know if it will ever stop and you don't know what you can truly believe. You will always feel like perhaps there may be even more to the story than what is being let on. So it really is better to get it out upfront and move on from there.

WARNING: I know you are forgiving and you both will be counseling, individually and together, but whatever you do, do not sweep this thing under the mental or emotional rug and try to move on from here without fully exploring all of your hurt and all of your anger. As ugly and as distasteful as it may seem to be, it is essential that you allow yourself time to process all of your thoughts and feelings. Anything left unsaid or undone now may very well come back to haunt you later on. I know it would be very easy to be highly spiritual about this and just forgive and move on, but we are humans with all of our faults and foibles, and we need to deal with our very real emotions. You will not be less of a person for doing this, nor will you be less spiritual for allowing it to happen. It is a very necessary part of your cleansing and healing process that you need to do for a successful outcome, IMHO.

And yes, it isn&#8217;t over. You will be all over the place for some time in the months ahead of you both. The doubt, the fear, the trust, the jealousy, the hurt, and the love will all be swarming around inside of you, with each taking the spotlight at one time or another. It is all-normal. Your greatest advantage is that your wife is so sincerely regretful and sorry and she really wants to do whatever it takes to make this better for you and your marriage. I admire that a lot in her and I envy you for having such a spouse. It took a lot of courage on her part to face with you with this and it is taking a lot of courage on your part to deal with it and try to heal your relationship. You can be spiritual about this by inviting God into the process of your healing efforts together, but don't let spirituality "white wash" the situation. Deal with it fully and completely, with God's blessings and guidance. That's my advice to you.

And don't worry about falling back into old patterns. Your relationship will never be the same again and now you both know that you can't put a relationship on "auto pilot". It takes work. And from what I can see here, you both are very willing to work at this. I think you two have a great chance of succeeding in this effort to save and resurrect your marriage!
God Bless </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the way you released information to him is accurately told, then of course his reactions are more intense with each new revelation. It really would have been better to get it all out in the open then move on from there. But, what's done is done now. You must roll with his anger and his mistrust and and questions and his love. Remember this: The fact that he is there arguing with you or yelling at you shows you that at the very least he is not running off and leaving you or kicking you out. He is in pain and turmoil because he loves you and a part of him wants to work this out and forgive you and heal the marriage. Just stay with it. You are very courageous for wanting to go through this. I know at times you probably thought to yourself that it was really a mistake to tell him, but in the end it will have been the best thing. This needs time. There is no short quick cure. Keep at it. Be patient. You both love each other. I think that it is obvious in each of your writings. I have hope for both of you. Gotta go for now. God Bless and Good Luck

BJF,

How's it going? Haven't heard from you in a couple of days....

Let us know.

RIF90