Kily,
I'm thinking of you, following your thread and thoughts.

I appreciate how you posted the words you wished to send to your ExBF. I constantly write things to exH that I never send. If I were to send them it would be a complete disaster.

As far as shades of gray, I like thinking of that idea, too. I feel that many people DO see the world as completely black and white. I know one person in my family who does, and he does so in every issue in life. My ExH always has admitted to doing so as well. In the seventies, a popular radio/TV minister always talked about being a 'possibility thinker'. He stressed always how important this was in life. My exH always used to tell me how much he loved that I was one, and he wasn't. Your shades of gray reference reminded me of that--thanks.

My thoughts are with you, Kily.
Take care,
H_P

Hi All....

More on the shades of grey thing. I didn't want to get too deeply into this, but I do want to elaborate a little.

I understand that there isn't any person out there that can "MAKE" me see something, I was just thinking that through the sharing of wisdom and actions, it leads me to new insights that I would never have even considered if the interaction wasn't there.

JL, you often raise views to me that lead to the "flashes" that help me understand what it is I am really working towards. I get them sometimes when I am alone too.

I've read in several different places that it is only through committed love that a person can heal the wounds that prevent them from obtaining the "real" love that is craved so dearly. I think that XBF and I were at the point where we were on the edge of this process. His support and guidance helped me grow to a point where I was ready to walk away from the black and white, and start living in the grey.

The problem is that instead of having faith in the process, I ran in fear from the looming greyness. I needed to figure out WHAT it was that scared me so badly about the leap. This was the edge that I had to face in order to get to the healing of KILY.

Now I am at the stage where I am walking in the unknown, and I'm so new at this that I find it hard to keep believing in the faith that has led me here. Sharing this view helps me understand the "truth" behind the views I have.

I think that he is now approaching his edge and he is finding his own way through it, just as I HAD to do. I will still be there when he is finally ready to tackle it. I'm just not sure in what context. I do recognize the value of this process, I just find it difficult to stand by and have no control over the outcome. It gets easier with time.

I really liked this comment:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My father when he was in his 40's explain to me that the world was going to H*** in a hand basket. When I was in my 40's I tended to agree with him.
But, then I realized that my Grandfather probably thought the same thing and his father, and his. Why is it that we all reached the same conclusion? It wasn't that life was bad, it was because as you get older you see how things work, and they don't work as they should or advertised and certainly not as politicians would like you to believe. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it really sums up the whole point I was trying to get to yesterday. Being in the grey to me signifies that a person has finally accepted that life can't be forced.

Many people live in this "mode" where you have pre-conceived expectations of what you "should" be doing, feeling, thinking, and living. The fact is, you're right, IT doesn't work as advertised! When you finally LET GO and trust in your higher power, you finally see the grey.....this is the uncharted territory that has been so elusive.

That greyness only seems sad and hazy on the surface because it is so foreign to any previous experience. The fact is that it IS made up of so many colors! It's when you are in the grey, and open to all possibilities that you are TRULY growing and living.

WOW, this went WAY OUT THERE!

Sometimes I get really passionate about my deep beliefs.

Thanks for reading.

Hi Everyone,

I decided to send XBF the message that I posted previously.

Here is the response that I received:

I know your sincere and you are probably at a different place in your life, but you need to understand how much pain your lies,escape, cheating, diversion, whatever you want to call it did to me and the humiliation it caused in my life. Your leaving me, your lying, your not knowing what you wanted out of life, your escaping because you felt guilty over OS's dad causing DS and I to be put aside.

Everything you did had an effect on me because you didn't know how to feel, what to feel, what you should be doing, acting, caring, and because someone from your unresolved past comes along and apologizes and makes you feel cared about you ignore everything and everybody to get noticed. I'm sorry but I can't forgive that.

I cared, I noticed, I loved you, but it was not enough for you. What I offered you was never enough for you. I never made you happy. You always were in conflict with me with your feelings. You never wanted to here my side. I begged you to stop seeing OP over and over and over but that was what you wanted so you got it.

If you want to talk more we can do it at ice skating.


I feel so sad. Much of this is so true. It hurts me so much to see the damage that I caused. How can I ever show him how truly sorry I am? I hate that I cared so little for myself and my family.

All I want is to go home and care about them the best way that I can.

Thanks for listening.

Kily,

I think you need to email him back just what you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel so sad. Much of this is so true. It hurts me so much to see the damage that I caused. How can I ever show him how truly sorry I am? I hate that I cared so little for myself and my family.

All I want is to go home and care about them the best way that I can.

Thanks for listening. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And then add that you would like to talk with him at the ice skating rink.

One, thing he probably needs to understand is that much of what you did wasn't about him, although it happened to him. It was about you, the OP, and your abilities at the time to handle your life.

I realize this doesn't help him much, but it might start him to thinking that you were battling your own demons. I truely suspect that is right or you wouldn't feel about him as you do now.

Keep trying to see the color. It is the important part. You know Kily when plotting some data we often use the technique of plotting most of the data in grey and the extremes or the interesting parts in color. It is a wonderful way to show complex data or situations and emphasize the improtant parts. I think life is a lot like this.

You are looking for the color in the greyscale. When you start to see it you have found the important stuff.

God Bless,

JL

OKAY JL,

I'm really trying hard here.....
I sent the response to the email and this is what was sent back:

Your right. In fact you did take everything me and our family had together to offer and threw it all away, becuase of why?

Your escaping, your idea of what life should be, how you should be feeling, what you felt you weren't getting out of life, the relationship, not considering anybody else.

You left me and the family 2.5 years ago in the Spring of 2000 when all the lies started. Everything from the Spring of 2000 to last August 2001 when you left me was just a big lie.

I tried to want you back and you rejected me. Even with all the lies and humiliation I still had hope.

Thanks for the good times and our bad times. Take the lying and cheating times with you.

I didn't deserve them in my eyes.

I just feel like I'm making things worse!!!! I feel like I'm causing him more pain by trying to apologize. Is this a normal response? Is it that he is finally allowing his pain to be seen by me? Why does he seem to get more incensed as he allows the feelings out?

The inner child in me is SCREAMING out to run away and hide. She is fearful that she is worthless, based on the history that she has built behind her. That deep part of me wants to put that wall back up so much because I can't fix what was broken THEN. She wants to simply bury it and never face what she was.

The "new" me simply wants to sit and hold XBF in my arms and let him scream until he can't anymore. I want to stand in front of him and HEAR every single thing that hurts him. I want to show him how deeply sorry I am and offer him my love and support!

I feel like I'm loosing it! GOD, I just want for him to stop hurting.

Thanks Again for listening.

Ah Young Grasshopper, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are misreading this. What your exBF is doing isn't bad, it is good. He is going from the state of withdrawal to the state of conflict. THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are hearing his own thougths and pain and he is stuggling with them. So you get the anger. But, this is good. No matter how this works out, it will be better for both of you.

His judgement is harsh, it has some accuracy, but some inaccuracies as well. He like you will have to come to see that there is the middle ground the grey areas, and the flashes of color. He is still in the black and white, but he is still engaged verbally with you.

I will remind you of Weisman's quote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Write back to him if you wish. He is right about many things but wrong about others. You cannot educate him any more than he could reach you. But, you need to clear the air. There will come a time when you will know whether to pursue this further or move away. That time will come when you know you have done all you can.

So smile Kily. You are doing well and you are bringing him out. Just don't antagonize him. OK?

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Kily I lurk often and post very seldom. It takes a lot to get me to the point of commenting on these difficult matters. I am not an expert, but rather a graduate of the school of life-- a P.H.D. you might say. I am not very computer literate though or I would put everything in list form and fancy treatment like you'all do. This is what I want you to know. You are EXACTLY where you should be and more importantly, where God wants you. You have moments of calm, almost eerie confidence and pride in the strides you KNOW you have made only to find that the one you would like to share them with isn't there. You also have moments that take your breath away with the flash of heat and panic at the thought that you have lost your chance--that you'll never build any history of solid, faithful love because of your past. What's most frustrating is these feelings can happen in the same minute. Perfect. I need you to know and BELIEVE this. You are so fortunate that you are processing this at this time in your life. You are blessed by these trials, Not exactly the word you would choose eh? Trust me. I am on the other end of life and on the other side of the rocky ravine you are staring into. Look up. You are right now doing the hard work to know real love. My wife and I both wish we would have done the foundational work years earlier. We are still married and have found a richness that we never dreamed possible. Sometimes when I'm reflecting thet richness intensifies the ache in my heart for the lost time. You haven't done anything irrepairable. You must continue the work for your sake and the sake of the next love in your life. If you wish it to be this man--I'll pray it will be so. If not, the only actionable gesture you could ever give your boyfriend is to be more complete for the next person. Think about it. One more thing before I go. You express yourself beautifully. I wonder if it might be overwhelming for your boyfriend at times. I believe you are capable of expressing and processing a lot more information and feelings than he (most people)can. Please don't be frustrated by the pace. If you will patiently walk this path, I PROMISE you it is the surest path to fulfilling love you will find. And you will find it. God Bless.

Serenity,

What beautiful words. Thank You so much for them. I am planning on printing out what you wrote and mounting it in a photo frame on my desk here at work.

I only want to comment that it doesn't matter at what point in life you get there, the fact is you are lucky because you are there! There are so many people that struggle their whole lives and never reach that summit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for your blessing. It means the world to me.

JL - Thanks Agian for just being you. I'm sure I'll have some interesting feedback on Monday.

Have a nice weekend all.....

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,
It is reassuring to me that your exBF is communicating with you about his feelings. I think you are getting somewhere indeed. As JL said, he's not in withdrawal but in conflict with you.

Quite honestly, I know I shouldn't compare--but we all do. I see that you have so much more hope than I do. My exH says virtually nothing to me at all. All emails-except direct ?'s about the kids--go unanswered and unacknowledged. There is nothing he ever has to say to me, at all. So when I compare with your exBF, I see that you have a man who will talk about his feelings and let you know what's going on.

Take care, and keep us 'posted'.

H_P

Hi Everyone.....

I know we've all been sitting on the edge of our seats just waiting for the news of what happened in the life of KILY.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

XBF and I had our talk on Saturday and it was mostly the same ground that had been covered before. He was struggling with the Why's, and I did my best to answer him as honestly as I could. I tried to convey that the issues were within me, and that from the time I was 5 I was left to raise and fend for myself. I tried to explain to him that because of that, I learned to live life by "the seat of my pants" and never developed the skills of patience, forethought, teamwork, etc. that are necessary in a partnership. I explained to him that I did not have the coping skills that he did and when things became too hard to bear, I RAN because it was the only thing I knew.

One interesting point he raised was that he felt that I needed to STOP running away. I told him that I already had. Then I reminded him of many incidents that ocurred between the two of us where I had stood my ground and listened, when in the past I would have left the room in the heat of it. I reminded him of one specific event where he was very close to striking me, he wanted to so badly. I told him that I stayed even then......

Then we talked about OP and his involvement in my life. XBF was under the impression that I had been carrying a torch for OP since I was 17. I took an opportunity to open the door here and I told him the truth about this. I told XBF that when I moved in with him, there was NO-Contact between OP and I. We had been in limited contact prior to my moving in (and at this time, it WAS purely platonic), but about a month before I moved, I stopped communicating with OP. I firmly stated to XBF that I chose to move in because I wanted to be WITH HIM! That I was in love with him and wanted very much to have a life with HIM!!! I wanted to get this point through because it was something that he'd been struggling with. He seemed to believe that OP was always it and that I never truly wanted XBF. WRONG!

Then XBF mentioned an analogy that our family was in a car that was traveling wrecklessly towards a brick wall at 65 miles an hour. He voiced that he felt that I was driving, and when we hit that wall, we all flew out of the car. Each of us has to put our life back together, but I was the one responsible because I was driving the car. I found this REALLY interesting. I answered that I was taking all the proper precausions to ensure that next time I got behind the wheel, I would have all of the safety equipment and driving skills needed to avoid a crash.

He then asked me point blank if it was worth it. My answer was a flat out "NO". The next statement I made was: "I will say that I AM happy that I am the person that I am today. I had to grow up, and I'm sorry that I did it the way that I did, but I would never want to be the person that I was then.

I think I finally reached him and led him to some new things to consider <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Later that night.......I received a call around 5:30 in the afternoon. It was another of those times where I knew I would be getting the call, I just wasn't sure when it was going to happen. A person might say this was intuition talking, or maybe I just know this man so well that I can "read" his moods and behaviors. I'm not sure what the underlying reason was for that knowledge, but I was very happy when I saw his number register on the cell screen.

This time, things went deeper than they ever had before. I can't even begin to quote all of the dialogue because so much was covered.

A few main points stand out in my mind.
He raised these questions:

"Why is it that when I don't DO anything, I go from being last on your list to first on your list?"

Wow. It never even ocurred to me that he saw it this way...

I started once again to explain everything. Eventually I gave him an analogy that I hoped would help him to start to understand...

I put this in terms of an alcoholic. I explained that when an alcohloic is involved in a relationship they may seem normal and functional. As time progresses, the need for the bottle becomes more powerful than anything else because they need to escape from the inner turmoil inside of them. No matter how much the alcoholic loves their family, job, whatever, they are controlled by the NEED for the escape. This becomes so powerful that they become focused only on that fix, and forget everything else.

Then I explained that no matter how much the family tries to reach the alcoholic, he will not put that bottle down until he is READY to! He has to be willing to face his fears and WANT to change the situation before healing can start.

Then I said to him, I went through this, only for me it wasn't alcohol.

His comment to me was:
"Then I could say: "Once an alcoholic, Always an alcoholic..."

I answered:
"Yes, This is true. That is why there are support groups in place, and people known as sponsors for the dependant one to call when they need to be talked through the next urge to drink. In my case, I am doing the internal work to fix me. I am dealing with the issues that led to this. I am learning all about me, and how to talk about what I feel. I'm learning how to think things through instead of making fly by night decisions. I'm not runnung away from my fear. I'm trying to make amends. I'm also posting on that Website every day for support and knowledge.

Then I added that one of the reasons I NEEDED to see his pain, and understand the depths of his devastation was so I could remember it. As part of my own recovery, I need to keep that with me so I will never hurt someone like that again!

Are you willing to accept that I am in a relationship with someone else?

I was defensive at this, but I asked him a question in response. "Have I once challenged her. Have I harassed you at ALL? Have I gone out of my way to make sure that DS and you could have a holiday with HER?

Then I said:

We had problems. I chose to run. You chose to stay. I came back, too late. I know that you had to move on. I accept that. I support you in your new relationship as much as that hurts me. I want it to be different, but I know that you chose what was best for you. I sincerely want for you to be happy, and if it's not with me, I support your choices. He was very quiet and said that he appreciated that in a very mouselike voice.

I told him that he was going to probably be angry for my next statement, but that I had to tell him. I told him that I have always LOVED him, never stopped LOVING him, and will always feel LOVE for him. I told him that I was grateful to be able to have these conversations on this level without the fights and blame. I told him that I was grateful that we could share this kind of depth after we ahd been through so much. He admitted that it was hard for him to do, but that it was a good thing.

The conversation died off from there, and we parted ways after an hour had gone by. When I finally was off the phone, I had a sense that the door was opening again.

Sunday....

XBF dropped DS off at my house. When I saw him, I couldn't believe the change that I saw in him. He had the characteristic scowl that he has these daus when I have deeply troubled him, and I expected the same cold haterd that I've seen so often in his eyes. It's gotten to the point where I don't look him in the eye because it hurts to see the wall there. I happened to glance anyway and was shocked to see that the wall was down.

In his eyes I saw such torment. There was a very deep pain that broke my heart. His eyes were almost pleading with me not to hurt him anymore. I also saw LOVE!!! I saw, as well as felt, that deep connection and desire to simply "BE" with me. I felt the same and could not take my eyes from his. I felt myself sending him all of the mental flashes that I could of what I felt, thought, and dreamed for our future. I sent him the mental image of all of the sorrow I felt at hurting him and the kids, and the sincere vow to treat them the way they deserved to be treated if he would only give me a chance.

Just as quickly, the connection was broken and he was leaving.....

I think that I am healing and that he is starting to as well.

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,

I do think you are healing and I also agree your exBF is to. Those discussions sound like real progress for the both of you. I mentioned to you that he was in conflict. It seems he is now starting to move toward recovery. It may not be recovery of your relationship, but it is for sure recovery from the events of the past. It is evident that you are also healing very well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope that you and your exBF find the pease you both seek.

God Bless,

JL

Hi All,

It's me again.

One other thing that I've been dealing with is that lately DS has been talking about the incidents that transpired during the weeks prior to my moving out. I find it interesting and very sad that he has such clear memories of what happened because he was so young during that time. Of course I feel VERY distraught that I caused him some painful memories, and shattered his life.....but at the same time I'm intrigued by his capacity for comprehension and coping.

Mainly his memories are centered around dad's anger towards mom. He remembers dad taking him out for a drive to find MOMMY because Mommy had disappeared. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> The next thing he remembers is that I moved out. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I HATE myself for this! This precious child was caught in the middle of a hurricane and I let him down.

I explained to him that daddy was right to be angry at mommy then because mommy was not dealing with her feelings. I told him that daddy was hurting and wanted mommy to come home then, and that mommy was too sad and angry to come home.

I don't want him to think of daddy as the BAD GUY because he wasn't. I want DS to know that I was the one that left because of my feelings, but in a way where it is a healing lesson, not a scarring one.

I kissed him then, and told him that mommy and daddy weren't really good at talking about their feelings then. I also told him that this was why it was important to talk about our feelings now.

Then we shared a memory that he had of going into his room and basically taking out HIS anger by beating up on his stuffed animals. That day it looked as if a hurricane had gone through his room. I told him how worried I was about HIM then because he didn't tell us how HE felt. When he was done talking about that incident, he laughed at the memory of all of his animals in shambles.

I am grateful that he is talking about it. I'm also grateful that I can be honest about MOM and DAD in a way that lets him know that he was NOT the reason and that we both love him very dearly.

I guess I'm wondering how all of the dynamics are coming into play here. It seems that we are all on this path to healing now. The funny thing is that I am not initaiting any of the dialogue. I am simply waiting for the questions and feelings from them.......

What has changed that makes them more open to talking about it? I know it doesn't make any sense, but I feel closer to the both of them now more than ever.

By the way, Kily: I didn't get the chance to reply before, but we DID see PG in concert, just after you did. Very cool!

All my best!

T-Z,

I thought I caught wind of you yesterday! I've been wondering when I'd see you pop in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes it was an awesome show!

It's nice to see you around.

Hi All,

Just a VENT! As predicted, the cycle continues.

I left work yesterday and received a call from XBF at 6:30. As usual, I was happy to hear from him, but I could tell almost immediately that the wall was up again. I decided to share the DS conversation with him because I felt this was an important thing in DS’s world. I also wanted to let DAD know that I was trying to be accountable for my actions by being honest with DS about my role in the demise of our family.

DAD became very angry about the subject matter. I apologized for hurting him and I tried to explain that DS was starting to look for answers because he was ready to heal too. Dad then angrily stated: “Why don’t you tell OP what DS said so that he can see the damage you guys caused.” My response to this was: “If you really feel that way and want that, I would be VERY willing to send an email to him and copy you on it.” This seemed to ANGER him more, and he backed off of that idea. I just wanted to show XBF that I’m willing to do whatever it takes to acknowledge his feelings, and that HE and the kids are my priority in life. XBF made it plain and clear that he wanted ONLY the KIDS to be a priority in my life.

He told me that his heart is so hardened towards me that he could never feel any empathy towards me. XBF then went on to say that he sees me as the same person as I was before, both physically and mentally. I was sad by this comment because I am different physically, mentally, and spiritually and I said that I was sorry that he felt that way.

Then he started on the HOUSE settlement again, and I told him that it wasn’t a good time for us to discuss it. He pushed the issue and I pleaded with him not to push me on this issue. He asked me why I wasn’t willing to settle with him. He asked if it was the settlement amount, or the closure issue. I told him it was both. I told him that I wasn’t ready to deal with all of this. He pushed me into opening up to him and I told him that I didn’t want to because he was just going to throw my feelings in my face, laugh at me, tell me I’m stupid and foolish. He asked me to open up anyway, so I did.

I told him that at some point in the future, I was hoping that there might be a chance at reconciliation between the two of us. I told him that I hoped for DS, OS, he, and I that we would some day get the chance to build the family that we always wanted. I said that I didn’t want to sign those papers because for me, it signaled the END to all of that. He said that there was NEVER going to be a chance for that to EVER happen. I told him that I had used those same words too and that I had a change of heart. He then said: Yes, but you weren’t in a rational state of mind when you used those words, I am. (Is extreme ANGER really a place that a decision like this can be made from? Someone please tell me because if it is, then I really am fooling myself here.)

I felt so exposed to him at that point. Then he accused me of being selfish and only thinking about myself. I told him that I was thinking about the kids, him, and me. I also said that if I were only thinking about myself, I would’ve cleaned him out when I left.

He seems to use this phrase a lot on me when he WANTS me to do things HIS way. I told him, I could say the same things about him. I ask for a key to get my things and he promises to give one to me, and then he NEVER does! There’s no way that I will settle without removing my stuff from the premises. I am not that ignorant.

I really don’t want to fight like this. It leaves me feeling depressed and hopeless. I feel as if he brought up the house issue to deliberately force his ANGER to rage again. We had agreed to let it lie for a year, and now he is pushing me into a fight that I don’t want.

Then it gets really interesting when he informs me that he called my cell phone yesterday to talk about the “eye” thing that I explained in an earlier post. I NEVER received the call and have no record of it on the call LOG. I’m sure he did place the call, but I did pick OS up during that time frame and there are a few areas where there is NO SERVICE on the way there. He said that he was calling me to find out what the “eye” thing was all about. He wanted to know what I was thinking and he said he was trying to figure out why I was looking at him that way! That’s funny, because he was giving me THAT look and caught my attention with it. When I asked him what it was about, he said: “Oh, I was just saying Hi. You know, the usual casual greeting…….”

Why is he downplaying this? I saw what I saw. I am not READING into it or making it up! I am completely confused by this. If it was nothing, Why would he call me within 20 minutes of leaving to talk about it?

I buy a gift for him for Christmas and we get into it over that. He doesn’t feel comfortable accepting a gift from me. Okay, I’ll take it back if that’s what you want. I bought it because I felt you DESERVED it. NO EXPECTATIONS ATTACHED. I’m not looking for anything in return!

I leave him alone and don’t call him. He calls me and leads the conversations. I deliberately do this because he NEEDS to decide if he wants to talk to me or not and how much he wants to let in. It’s like he’s pulling me in and pushing me away at the same time.

He accuses me of hanging on and interfering in his new “r”. He knows darned well that I have done nothing but support his efforts! I told him that I want him, but I’m not sitting home crying over him until he returns. I’m living a life and trying to get through each day with a new lesson and a positive outlook on life.

The last thing discussed prior to my terminating the conversation in a pleasant manner was that he is now BLAMING me, and OP for the entire demise of the “R”. He feels that he had no contributions whatsoever to the conditions that led up to my leaving. I accept responsibility for what I did. I’m hurt and ANGRY because he had his part in this too. It seems that he is re-writing a lot of things these days, and the more he does, the ANGRIER he seems to get. I’m fearful that he will NEVER let go of the ANGER but I pray that he will.

I’m not sure what to feel anymore.

As Always, Thanks for listening.

Hi Kily,
still following your post and learning with you each day. Today you wrote something that smacked me in the forhead! I thought I have to share my thoughts on it... You said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The last thing discussed prior to my terminating the conversation in a pleasant manner was that he is now BLAMING me, and OP for the entire demise of the ?R?. He feels that he had no contributions whatsoever to the conditions that led up to my leaving... It seems that he is re-writing a lot of things these days, and the more he does, the ANGRIER he seems to get...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dang if that doesn't sound like WS FOG!!!! I couldn't post back quickly enough, it just really struck me. He seems to be presenting himself as that lately, the WS. You KNOW he still has feelings for you, you SAW them. No, you are not crazy, and yes he had wanted to talk to you about it. He seems like he is now the one to be "stuck" and not able to decide what he wants.
I just found it so ironic that he is acting this way. Maybe it is because of MY perspective as the FWS, but I think that given tme and following Harleys guidelines, you two will be able to work this out.
Just know that I am still following your saga and continuing to pray for you both (all!)

Hi Mrs. Wld!

I've been thingking about you. Thanks for your input.

It's nice to hear that someone else thinks that this is the case with him. I feel strongly that he is exactly where I was a year or so ago, but at times I don't want to kid myself either. I don't want to have false expectations only to be crushed. I guess in some ways I'm not willing to let the roller coaster ride take over my life. I believe that is why loving him from a distance seems to me to be the best thing to do.

The other day, when we exchanged those "looks" between us, I had a feeling that it was only a matter of time and then we would be together again. I don't want to sound arrogant by making this statement. I hope that I don't. It's hard to explain but I was just filled with this "knowledge" and it allowed me to be more at peace with HIS "r" with this girl. It was the same thing the day I looked at his finger and wondered why he wasn't wearing his wedding band and I looked down at my own hand and realized that we weren't married! DUH! I don't want to say it was a psychic flash, I prefer to think of it as GOD leading me where he feels I should be. Sort of a divine reminder of things to come....

I know this is going to sound strange, but I feel that this WHOLE process that I went through and now HE is going through is a necessary TEST to show us what real love is. I feel like we were both "stuck" in our life, where we just seemed to meet status quo. We both needed to be able to step outside of ourselves so we could figure out what it is that we had/have. We both need(ed) to understand the lesons that recovery seems to teach people.

Believing in this is what keeps me focused. Although at times, it's really easy to lose the focus and let your fear guide you.

Thanks for the support.

Kily,
I couldn't agree with you more. It sure sounds like he?s the stuck one now. Kinda funny?and I only mean ironic funny, that he should now be the one to keep you two from having a fulfilling relationship. But as you have said, this is one step you need to take on the road to a HEALTHY relationship. I think that even if this one doesn?t work out, by the time you realize that fact, you will have done so much healing that it won?t be as bad as it seems NOW. In a way I guess it is maybe your turn to do the whole Plan A thing. It sure sounds like that is what you are doing anyway. Have you thought about Plan B? I?m just curious if your thoughts have gone that way?
I'll finally be posting my update tonight! I tried to last night but my sign-on expired! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Kily,
It's been crazily busy lately, no time to post here, nor much privacy. Just wanted to let you know that I"m thinking of you and my other MB 'buddies'. I'll respond more later on, when things are more settled. (have to do chores now, before repairperson comes!)

You're nice to always give me hope. You mentioned once lately on my thread that in my case I was married to the man, and you weren't , so mine was perhaps more promising. To me, my situation looks so, so hopeless compared to yours. He won't even talk with me. It is complete withdrawal. I see hope for you, as yours still finds you interesting enough, on some level, to talk with. Does that make sense? I feel that my exH sees me as a 'nothing', which he agreed with when I asked him this about a month ago. So there you are.

Take care,
H_P

PS sorry I don't live in your area. It'd be fantastic to meet you.

Hi All,

Feeling sorry for myself today...please forgive my self pity.

It was a difficult weekend, but I managed to get through with only a few tears.

My weekend started on a bad note because my car has some major engine problems. I brought it to the shop and it seems that I will not get the thing back until Friday. My warranty has just expired, and I had to rent a car to get around for the week. All of this will be out of pocket! I decided that I will be trading it in after the New Year because this is the second MAJOR failure in the car in the last YEAR. It's a 2001 VW Passat! I certainly didn't expect all of these issues in a TWO YEAR young car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

After this fiasco, I couldn't help but look back at all of the trials that I have been put through this year. I don't know why, but it seems as if I am being tested. GOD is realy trying to get me to see something, I just don't know WHAT! The only conclusion I can draw right now is that HE is trying to show me that I am able to take CARE of myself. For so long I was so dependant on XBF I didn't feel like I was even a person any longer...... I know that this is a simplistic view, I suspect that there's more that He wants me to see. I just haven't been open enough to the messages.....

Things with XBF and I look worse than ever. He has fully retreated in to withdrawl again and is ANGRIER than ever. Over the weekend I told him that I missed him and he basically attacked me. He jumped all over me wih: "Tough! You lost me last February when I sent OP that email and you both disreagarded it. You wanted that life, you go twhat you wanted! (The time frame for when he pulled away and moved on keeps changing!)

I told him then that I didn't get what I wanted. I told him that I wanted and want a commitment and that HE was not ready to give me one. Then I reminded him of his own words: "On the way to Sidney, I realized that you and the kids were everything I wanted. I decided to come home and treat you guys the way that you needed to be treated. I wanted to make things better for all of us. When I got back, YOU were gone. You were in Maui and had given up."

He got angry at this and yelled at me. "I'm tired of your trying to BLAME me for this situation." I respomded with: "I'm not BLAMING you for this. I accept my responsibilities towards MY actions. I'm just trying to remind you that I am not the only one that contributed to the issues!" He was very angry and Hung the phone up.

Needless to say, I am VERY sad.

Last night I watched the "YAYA Sisterhood" Movie. I don't know if any of you have seen it, but it was very funny and very painful to watch. I must have cried for over half of the movie. In the movie, the mother first runs away from her kids and then returns only to wind up beating her kids and then to suffer a mental breakdown. It hurt SO BAD to listen to her describe the pain and rage she felt towards herself, and her family. GOD that was ME two years ago. This movie made me realize just how awful things really were then. I very easily could have ended up in HER shoes, had I not healed.

I started to think a lot about this movie and the character in the movie. It made me see that my choice to leave may have not been the wrong one. I WAS SO LOST that I didn't know WHAT to do. I believe that the WAY that I left was not the "RIGHT" way and I want so much to heal our "r" that I am willing to accept 150% of the blame. He is willing to offer me 200% of the blame and that only adds to the distance.

I can't change who I am. I don't believe anymore that he is capable of seeing me any other way than that destructive person that I became. I'm tired of being rejected repeatedly and I'm wondering WHY I even bother anymore. I left then because he didn't want to open his eyes and see reality. In some ways, nothing has changed.

Interestingly, both of my kids are opening up about the things that happened prior to my leaving. My younger one has a pretty clear recollection of the last days prior to my leaving, and he mentions this frequently.

My older one hasn't really said much, but this weekend he did finally. I told him that I felt guilty that I couldn't give him a MOM and DAD like other families have. It was very interesting to hear him tell me to stop feeling GUILTY about leaving. He said that even though it looks like he doesn't have a family, He REALLY does.

He told me to look at him. He reminded me that I raised him and had done a lot for him over the years. He said that he learned so much from ME that it helped him become the person that he is today. He told me that he felt that I was the best mom that there ever could be and that he would never want anyone else to be HIS mom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am so lucky......

As you all can see, I am ALL over the place with my emotions. I suppose it is from the holidays, but I suspect that it's another epiphany about to occurr.

All for now.

Thanks for listening. Happy Holidays to all of my friends here.

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>