That countdown site is one of the strangest I have ever seen!

Do you have any more goodies like that?

I like the strange and unusual. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

By the way, I think I tend to project myself into my posts and make my issues your issues (or any else's I am posting to), so take what I've said with a grain, or pound, of salt. I didn't realize how much I was doing that until I reread your posts and the other positive replies that you have gotten. I'll try to be more objective in the future. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SC:

"Oh, and Pep, well, that's easy; remember that all-girls party she told us about a few months (weeks?) back? If I had one of those per year I'd be "Mr. Happy" too! Luv ya Peppy! "

Are you kidding!!! If *I* had an "all girls party" like Pepper's, I'd be in HUGE TROUBLE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey, 2L - I haven't been around here much lately. As a fellow victim of long-term affairitis, I really appreciate the attitude you've cultivated. I'm in exactly the same boat as you (again) - I know there's been limited phone contact, my W has chosen not to tell me about it, and I'm just being my patient, stubborn self and am hanging on to our M for all it's worth, because...well, because it's the right thing to do, da@@ it! Even though I hate it. It used to be so easy.

Thanks for the continued inspiration, and I'll take one of those patented BigSis hugs whenever she has a spare moment!

Just for the record, the full moon washed out the show the other night here in the Bay Area. Saw one beauty, then nothing but frostbite for the next hour or so. But the feeling is gradually returning to my toes, so all is well, I suppose.

Blind:

Abolutely no problem! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SiSF:

Sorry 2 hear the news about the continued contact. Yes, that's gotten me down many times over the past several months. Still does (like the other day). But telling her 2 STOP IT won't work either. The key, I think, is 2 clearly reiterate your boundaries, and so you're not LBing and you're not being a doormat either.

And, I'll add: let the WS "figure out" just how much you'll tolerate and what your limits REALLY are, on their own and in there own way ...and maybe end up wondering "where did the BS GO?" (although that's sort of a spiteful fantasy, isn't it? See how delicate these things are??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Since my W has assured me numerous times that she can now be trusted, after she told me that OM had called, I simply said, "I am trusting you to protect our marriage." She asked if I was waiting for her to come home one day, tell me that OM called, and that she told him not to call anymore, ever. I told her that sounds pretty good to me.

Now I'm just watching to see if she follows through. If not, well, as you implied, she may one day wonder why the house has a "for sale" sign out front and all my stuff has been shipped to Kona!

SiSF:

...I WAS going 2 reply by saying something like "see? that would be spiteful of you 2 sell the house without telling her!" But then I saw the part about Kona, and realized, what's wrong with THAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I've been 2 Kona many times. Love the coffee, and coconut syrup on my pancakes in the morning!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All seriousness aside: Did she really ask you this? If she did, how was it pitched? Like you said? where it sounds like she's testing your limits (as "do you expect me 2...?" verusus "I've been thinking that this is the right thing 2 do. Would that be helpful?").

I've thought a lot about this "problem" because it's still very much a problem with me. How 2 help her "trust" ME enough 2 give up her "fallback"? I know, thinking of OM as a fallback option for her is very painful, but that's what it is, and if they don't trust us, it's a hard thing 2 give up what they went so out of their way 2 "have", right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did she really ask you this? If she did, how was it pitched? Like you said? where it sounds like she's testing your limits (as "do you expect me 2...?" verusus "I've been thinking that this is the right thing 2 do. Would that be helpful?"). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said it like the first example, kind of flippant. I responded in earnest while looking her dead in the eye. Don't think she expected that. She's actually been better the last couple weeks. The last message OM left for her at work had a somewhat frustrated tone to it, like he can't reach her and she's not calling him back. I hope he's sitting at home stewing in a puddle of his own body fluids. He has yet to grasp the fact that I can turn his world upside down with a single phone call. What a maroon!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've thought a lot about this "problem" because it's still very much a problem with me. How 2 help her "trust" ME enough 2 give up her "fallback"? I know, thinking of OM as a fallback option for her is very painful, but that's what it is, and if they don't trust us, it's a hard thing 2 give up what they went so out of their way 2 "have", right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right, and all we can do is keep doing what we're doing. At some point, I gotta believe that we're going to look pretty good compared to the alternative.

Hang in there. I will if you will!

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: shattered in SF ]</small>

SiSF:

I will!!! ...unless you want 2 open a coffee shop up in Kona?...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And another thing: Boy, what is it with these WSs?

Rat Meat has been showing his true colors for a LONG TIME now (at least 2 years), and my W can't cut him off? What's with that?

But it does no good 2 wait for her 2 see it, because that'll just lead 2 disappointment (like the past 10 months!). She's got 2 do that on her own... ...or not. Her call entirely. I know what I have 2 do, but it would be nifty if she'd do it 2. Yesterday would be okay by me!

My dad's cousin owns a coffee business there - trees, processing, packaging, the whole deal. Maybe we could entice him to retire and sell to us, and since I'm not a "coffee guy" (sorry, TMCM!), I won't be drinking any of the profits! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long, RU home yet?

SS:

Home? Meaning my own house? No... won't be for months. We're living in our guest house for now, though. But that will get even more crowded when my D gets back from England in 3 weeks.

SiSF: I drink almost as much coffee as TMCM, so I just MIGHT drink the profits!

Send her over to stay with us, I have a 24 year old son that is home recovering from an accident. He broke his neck and shoulder last Dec, but he is working now and almost ready to move back out.

Just kidding, I don't know if she could stand us. I don't think we would notice though, we still have 6 at home. Once it was down to 4!

What is taking so long on the home, I think you said once it may go to the lawyers?

Are you doing the restoration your self?

SS

SS:

2day's meeting was with us, our contractor, Allstate's lawyer, and our lawyer.

Allstate wants 2 go 2 arbitration for the difference in our figures. Our lawyer is recommending we sue for bad faith if that happens (because they didn't protect the house adequately and we got considerable additional water damage). Long story, but we're a long way from having the house done. It's got a waterproof roof now, but a lot of windows are still not replaced and the mold/mildew hasn't been addressed (inspector was there for the first time 2day). There's no electricity or water and the gas is turned off. Won't be "habitable" for at least 6 more months, but we may move in2 the downstairs bedroom while work continues.

Oh, and my D is bringing her boyfriend back from England with her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I got to thinking about you today. ( I know it's hard to believe, but, I do think every few weeks.)

Do you still have some fear that things might not work, and if so, how does it come out when you interact with W?

I'm not really sure what exactly prompted that question, but I just wondered about it.

SS

HI SS:

Yeah, I have 2 admit that I have "fears" that things still might not work out for us. Especially the past several days. I took a massive rollercoaster dip the past few days that I'd like 2 "blame" on my reading things like Mortarman's thread, and my own similar remark about the catch22 sitch we find ourselves in with our WSs hanging on2 the OP as a fallback, and our own inability 2 open up 2 THEM completely, 2 show them the "new us" warts and all, and then the thread about the "love" between the WS and OP. It all felt so hopeless there. But then I pulled my head out and I'm working on getting back on track and staying there. Because, the OP is NOT a viable alternative. Never was, but the difference now is that the secret 2nd live has been blown wide open, so the more they try 2 maintain that, the "ickier" it will become. I can sense this even when my W and I aren't talking about it. And I find the need 2 talk about it growing less and less, and I want it that way because I truly want RM 2 become the "non issue" that my (flakey) IC tried 2 get me 2 make him several months back, by urging me 2 stop dwelling on the contact.

No, SiSF is absolutely right. In the sitches we're in, we simply have 2 continue doing the right thing from our ends and be patient... ...with whatever result resulting from that patience. No expectations. Just hopes. Honesty, forgiveness, trust. From BOTH sides. And I'm just realizing how hard that is 2 "give" from THIS side. Like I never would have learned if I'd stayed in plan B in July.

Sorry about the long winded reply! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Good Morning 2long, I am glad you will live to fight another day.

That cycle of fear/hope seems to be normal, and I don't worry about you (much) these days but I think about me, and my sometimes mood swings and I worry that you get enough support from your W on a regular basis to keep you going. As long as you have been doing this (2long) you would need some kind of improvement I would think.

What is she doing to give you hope, or how are things improving overall that give you hope?

SS

Oh, and as far as being long winded, you were long winded in June, this one was short compared to some of those. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS:

"What is she doing to give you hope, or how are things improving overall that give you hope?"

Very good 2uestion(s)!

As 2 what SHE's doing? Well, depending on how I'M doing, she's doing a lot or not enough 2 satisfy me. My call. Get what I mean? She's "living a day at a time" and trying 2 end contact by ending this perpe2al "report from he!!". I, on the other hand feel like "we're going 2 make it" when the rollercoaster is on a high, then "want out" when it's on a low. I'm realizing more and more all the time that MY life is about ME, what I learn, how I recover from adversity. It's not about what my W did or is doing at all. I can choose 2 be deliteriously affected (take the poison and wait for her 2 die), or I can try 2 learn something to benefit me and my family from what has happened.

So far, when I'm doing well, the latter choice wins out. And so I/we make progress. when I choose the former, *I* forego progress for bitterness. No fun.

Hi 2long.
I know what you are speaking of, all of us have it. ( ups, downs.) We have it A or no A, good M or bad M - to a point. When we speak of "falling in love" there are things that help it along. I haven't read the stuff about love that you have read, but my feeling is that some of what DR H says is true. Sure we should love even when bad things happen, but in the best relationships it is two way. That's what I am wondering, how two way it is. Perhaps that is a negative thing to ask still, and if so, I am sorry, and I'll cease.

On the lighter side, I didn't die over the holiday, so you will probably continue to see posts from me.

SS