Well all I have finally come to the conclusion that my wife will never come back to work on the marriage.

She does not see what is doing to our daughter. I have her today and she misses me so much and tells me to come home (she's 3).

I sit and realize all the stupid things I did in our marriage and how I disrespected her and took her for granted. Yes, I then realize that she also did not do things to maybe treat me in a way that I might change.

By not seeing each other for 2 1/2 months it has solidified to me that she no longer wants to try to save this marriage. I tell you I feel that she has "PURE HATRED" for me. It feels terrible. How can someone tell another person in June they love them and now there is NO LOVE? Does it happen like that? We have been together 7 years.....how can it end this way? It doesn't feel right that she does not want to go to counseling (IC or MC).

I still wish her well. I pray that she will find the dream man she seeks. It's hard to believe that I may once again find someone as great as her. Even if she is an "Alien" right now.

She still has not contacted me directly. Only when she's mad about something. She still contacts my mother to relay messages. Should my mother tell her she wants NO PART of it and not to be used as "the go between"?

I'm sorry Alan, I too am going thru it also, the "alien" statement hits home for me. Mine is still living here for now, but lives a single life with the OMW. He is acting bizarre, since she is Korean, he is eating with chopsticks, listens to Elvis Presley music (he never did), and stays away from the rest of us, (his sister, my brother, and me) ignores the pets. I am disabled and my last 3 years was spent being a wife to him supporting him emotionally while he worked and went to school. Now he has dropped all financial responsibility on his sister and my brother (who just moved here to marry his sister) you would have to read my other threads on just found out and general questions. I hurt for you, but the only advice I can say, is that what gets me thru the day is that I work on me and my life, yes I'm scared since I'm disabled and do not have assistance, but I go about my day "NOT IN A FOG" and it makes me feel alive in some way, when I look at him, I think, for someone that's suppose to be walking on clouds, boy, do YOU look lost. He does not speak to me unless to ask some stupid question that I know is twisting the knife in, he stays secretive, cause I know he's looking to move out, and dump all bills on us. He does not join in family functions that we had planned here, and everyone who does not know is inquiring as to his where abouts, NOONE in his family is supporting him at all. But he has dropped all ties to us as we are not even worth consideration, (overwhelming for a man claiming to be so compassionate and caring) I love the man I know exists, but this alien is something of an enigma that makes me look at him with total shock as to his behavior. I hope you are working on yourself as to keep yourself motivated for yourself and your child, but right now, it's you that needs the attention, so you may not be taken under with such a heavy rip tide you are riding as I am, we just have to keep swimming parallel to the shore, and not straight towards shore that will only take us out farther. We will get to shore and we will survive, and "they" will either wake up or not, we can't do it for them. Take care

Alan,
Wait a day and then come back and tell us what is going on. Sounds like you are very hurt right now, never a good time to call it quits.

Sometimes it is over, sometimes it is not. How can she not love you? Well, how could you have EA? How come we don't understand lots of things we should understand?

If we knew the answers to all this stuff, we would be paid LOTS MORE than what we get. Lets talk some more tomorrow.

SS

Alan, don't you think if she is relaying messages thru your mother it might be a sign that she wants to continue communicating but at this time, it is safer for her and her feelings if she uses a 3rd party, and notice...it is YOUR mother correct? I think (by what I have read from your posts) that you are on the right track, and that you are having a bad day that has left you a little tunneled in your thinking, we all have those days, I don't think you are in denial, just having a tougher time coping today with what your heart and head is perceiving. Just my thoughts though.

You right. How could I have an EA? I was so confused and I was in the fog. Thsis is something she'll probably never recover from (or the M). At that time I should have said "NO". But it doesn't seem like i was thinking straight. That man wasn't me. We should have sought immediate attention.

I don't know if it is positive that she is using my mother to talk to me. It is nothing about "US". it is only about our daughter (visitation) and about money and child support.

How can she go so long after being together all those years and not WANT to talk to me? We talked everyday! Is this "If I don't see or talk to him --he doesn't exist" in turn she is justifying that what she is doing "D" is the right or only option? Everything she has said to me, others, and actions show that she is justifying her actions........she says nothing in our "togetherness" was ever good (Yea right!) I know she knows this isn't true.

It's been two weeks now with NO contact from me in any way, shape, or form. She's got to be wondering what is wrong. I wonder if she will ever feel any guilt or remorse from this? She acts like she doesn't miss me........could that be true?

hold tight... she will call.. remember to handle it correctly when she does....

Do you really think she'll call me? When she has my mother as a go between? My mom was thinking of telling her she doesn't want to be the go-between anymore.

I don't know. My W has a lot of willpower. She is very stubborn. And combine this with talking to other guys on internet and going out..............I don't know if she even gives me a thought.

So Alan,

Is the D going ahead, or is it stalled? Give us an update on what is happening. If she is talking to others on the net, so where you and you are back now, she could come back too. What makes you think it is all over?

SS

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Still seeking.........

She is still proceeding with divorce. No sign of stalling or stopping. I think she feels that our M is at a point that we could never go back. Too much drama. I feel it could be beautiful now that I have learned so much.

My EA was not on the internet. It was over a year ago. Hers started in mid-August by posting an ad on dating site. It turned into telling him everything. She was obsessed with him. I don't think they ever met. It was at this point she had already spoke to a lawyer and emotionally divorced me. Of course then I laid on pressure and pushed her further away. I know for sure she went on one date and I assume she is still talking to others. She told me it felt great when these guys gave her affectionate comments. Well Duh!

What makes me feel it's over? Gut feeling. No emotional or physical contact with her. Seems so easy for her.

I have a plan A letter I wrote. Well, kind of plan A. One of the books I read said to write down all the things I did to contribute to the failure of marriage and list things I would/could do differently if she decided she wanted to reconcile. She would see effort and commitment. He says in this letter to ask her "forgiveness" for the things I did wrong. He said it would be nice for her to do the same thing, but that may not happen. Also, no guarantee of of reconciliation, but I would feel better knowing I did and said everything I could to reconcile and can go on with a clearer concious.

I don't know.......what do you all feel about this approach?

I have given her the space and time, but our divorce will be final in about a month, unless she comes out of the fog and sees that we CAN DO IT TOGETHER. She may just laugh at letter and say it is manipulation. I don't know........just seems hopeless and no where to go but down.

bump--

I guess I was feeling low last night. I had my daughter and we were looking at pics I have stored on computer. I showed my 3 year old the website I made for wife with all our pic.........she turned to me and said I love you daddy, your my best friend and gave me a big hug. She sure has been affected by this I can see it in her behavior. She still cries and begs me to come home. She said mommy said no...you were naughty.

I found out W took down family pic in dining room (just 2 months before filing she wanted to go get a new one taken) and our wedding pic in bedroom. I guess she doesn't want anything around to remind her of me.

I was thinking about selling my concert tix next month (wouldn't be fun without W) and giving W the money and using it to buy my daughter a Xmas tree (real) for her house. What do you all think?

PS: Priest had a talk with her about a month ago...would it be good for him to follow up with her? She still goes to church on Sundays and sees him......she must have a clear conscious about this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Forgot....Let's assume all hope is gone ---should I tell her about this site so she may benefit from reading posts whether getting a divorce or not? Also, I am seriously still thinking of court ordered counseling---as I have much to say to her even if she still wants divorce. I just wouldn't feel right getting a D and not venting my feelings to her. I would then feel I had tried everything and then my conscious would feel clearer.

Need help here PLEASE!

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

Al:

I haven't followed much of your story, but:

"Forgot....Let's assume all hope is gone ---should I tell her about this site so she may benefit from reading posts whether getting a divorce or not?"

This is your call. Most times it doesn't work very well, but there are a few exceptions.

"Also, I am seriously still thinking of court ordered counseling---as I have much to say to her even if she still wants divorce. I just wouldn't feel right getting a D and not venting my feelings to her. I would then feel I had tried everything and then my conscious would feel clearer."

By badgering her???? Sounds like a really bad idea 2 me.

AA,
I wish there is a sleeping pill to give you to hybernate 'till after Christmas. When you wake up if Dv still in progress then do the court order counseling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . For now, just use the ticket to go and have fun, it is good for you and is good for the situation. Buy xmast tree too, it is good for your plan A. Don't forget to get something for thanksgiving. Listen, it is hard but you have to stop analyzing and stop assuming thing out. You have to stop. You have done your best, nothing more is going to add benefit to your plan A. Waiting is a huge thing to do !!!.

-rh-

HI Alan,

Right now I understand how your W is feeling. It is a combination of hate/pain/anger, you name it she is feeling it. If I was to guess, she probably cries alot, but around you, she won't. Being mad, keeps her from crying. You see, if she didn't love you, she could not hate you. If she didn't love you, what you did would not have bothered her. Does this make sense?

Sue,
You said all the right things. I still feel she does love me, but of course won't tell me or show signs as I may feel she wants to work on marriage.

When we had a terrible fight over a year ago about EA she left for a week. She said before separating in September that the only reason she came back was because of our daughter. My wife knows now how much I care about her and love her, but I know she feels continuing our marriage is pointless and a waste of time. She feels she can be happier without me in her life. I think she doesn't reach out to me because she doesn't want to give me hope. She is afraid of getting her heart broken again if she does try. How can she feel secure in coming back to try improving the marriage?

Sue, last time we talked she said she does not hate me and never will. She said she still cares about me and doesn't want anything bad to happen to me. I still think there is enough to rebuild this marriage. She thinks the only reason I am trying now is because I feel guilty. She says I can't handle rejection. How can you when you love your spouse? Yes, I know what I did and know I can improve and am improving.

No I do not want to give up on her and Yes I am trying hard. I have good days and bad........lsat few bad. I wake up early and think about her. Some friend was trying to set me up on a date with a woman.....I said no. The thought of being with someone other than my wife made me want to throw up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I did put a humorous Thanksgiving card in my daughters bag for the both of them. Very light and funny. Nothing romantic or personal. My daughter took home a snap shot of a family photo. I didn't really want her to, but she wanted it so I let her. I don't want my W to think it was manipulation. I suppose if she gets mad maybe she'll call me, so maybe not a bad thing.

This is the worsed place I've ever been......it's like waiting in court to see if you get life in prison or the death penalty. I am going to teach both my daughters on how to work on their marriages so they never have to experience this. It is worse than losing a loved one. It hurts not hearing her voice or seeing her, so I have to feel (pray) that she feels a little the same way.

I know she will notice the change of no contact..........but it may be too late for anything but the D she wants.

bump

Went to concert with 9 year old daughter last night. Had a great time. Friday night and she called my current W to talk to her sis and W was home on Friday night. To those asking if I'm sure she has no OM I am certain. She still may be chatting with guys on net or talking to them on the phone, but I don't think there is anyone permanant. I don't think I'd even want to really know. She is still going full steam ahead for divorce. We are in 3rd week of NO CONTACT (can't believe I haven't broke down), Seems I am really emotional right now. I keep thinking of the good times we had. I think of the bad and what I would do different. I think about things I would like to say to her. Sometimes I just start to cry. I have never been this emotional until I started to reflect on making myself a better person. This is the guy she wanted---someone to show their true emotions......now it may be too late. I don't see her slowing it down. She wants to pursue her hapiness and doesn't feel I can do it for her. If she did she would have contacted me by now. Seems the only time she contacts me is when her and my brother have a conflict or she is upset and wants something.

I don't know how she can go "cold turkey" after 7 years. Maybe I will never understand. My heart used to be cold and is warm again. Hers used to be warm and is now cold and bitter. What if anything can I do to help her?

If she does eventually call me how do I talk to her without breaking down and crying or her hearing this in my voice?

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

Arthur,

You are doing great... You really had to take the pressure off of her and the best way to do it is to just let them contact you...... She is going to call you at some point, and you really need your game face on when she does...( remember it is still early in the 2nd half..)

Don't believe for a minute that she isn't thinking about things....

You will be able to call her at some point... After she feels the pressure is over... Just let her contact you this first time... When she does, just act happy, be nice, but don't ask her one question about the relationship... she may test you in a couple of different ways, so keep to the game plan...... hold the line for now....

Keep,
My brother and her are still locked in a battle. They hate each other. I have a feeling things will hit the fan on Monday. I have been sticking up for wife and my brother knows I love her and want to work on the marriage, but he continues to do battle. He filed a small claims suit against her for a piece of property she has of his and she won't return it. Well, he told me she will be served on Monday and I know she will call me to vent. The only time she has called is because of their conflict and she wants to vent. She knows I stick up for her against my brother, especially now. My brothers' and my relationship will always be there, but I'm trying to be the knight in shining armor for her. What if she is talking to or dating others? Can our marriage rebound from this.

What makes me upset is that YES I had an EA. I admitted it and am sorry for it, but she has been dating while seperated and she refuses to seek counseling where as I have been going to IC and asked her to MC---but she refuses. How can she possibly feel good about this? Don't they think about the children too and realize people make mistakes and that something good can come out of restoring the marriage after all I've learned?

What do I say when she calls about the conflict with brother so I sound sincere and compassionate? She told my mother she doesn't want anything from me. So someone help me on what to say so I don't LB. I want to sound caring and such.

Also, last time we talked I said "I'm sure there are others out there for us." Just to make things kind of neutral (I hated saying it). She came back with "then why do you want to be married to me then?" Of course I did the because you are my true love and I will work hard to make our marriage a wonderful place for you.

She may ask this again......could be fog talk. I also think she joined another "dating web site". I guess I can't meet her emotional needs like these guys on these sites can. Weird we have 7 years and a daughter (and also good times) to build upon, but she is looking elsewhere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Someone saw her the other day and said she is dressing up and changed her look......I guess the old saying "out with the old, in with the new!"

I'm still giving her "gift" of space and no pressure. What do I say when she calls me on Monday........90% sure she will?

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: AlanArthur ]</small>

BUMP----come on guys is it slow here our what?

Alan, I was just wondering about you and wondering how things were going. Don't have a lot of time tonight so I apologize for being brief.

Nothing much to add except hopes for the best for you.