I don't even know if this is the right place to post this question...

I've been reading here for a few days and have finally gotten up enough nerve to post.... well, if this actually shows up, then you'll know I did get up the nerve.

I've become extremely emotionally attached to an online relationship. We've NEVER met IRL. But the feelings are still very strong. He "showed up" about 6 weeks ago, at a time when I was very angry at DH and very lonely. He is also lonely and our chats seem to get me through the day. I did tell him that I couldn't chat with him anymore, after about 3 weeks of it, and didn't chat with him for 12 days. But *I* picked it back up. And we have been chatting again for almost 2 weeks.

This is probably the most bizarre thing I have ever done, and it is totally out of character for me... blah, blah, blah.... LOL Even typing that it seems just like a flimsy defense.

We both promised that our relationship would be to encourage each other in our marriages and to be a friend that will listen. :-\ Needless to say, our conversations are not sexual... but there are fantasies and other NOT productive stuff discussed!! I know, I know, I know, that nothing will never come of this. I don't even WANT to meet him!! But the attachment is difficult for ME to even understand, much less explain. I told him I'd been reading here and even sent him the link. I told him about a radio conversation I heard Dr. Harley have with a man whose wife was having an online affair... They had never met, but it had been going on for 2 months... Ackkkk..... "Affair"???

So I asked him what he was getting from our relationship. What would he do if I dropped off the face of the internet?? He said, "I would miss you, but I would be better off for having 'met' you." So I said, "Like if your goldfish died... your life was richer because of him, but... flush...there are other fish at the fish store..." He said, "yeah -- exactly"

Now, I'm just dying... what have I gotten myself into?? And what am I going to do to get out of it?? I just started bawling when he said that. I quickly went off line with him and haven't been back in contact.

You folks here are so supportive of each other. Your suggestions are sincere and from the heart. I know if I get beat up on here.... it will kill me. I did not do this on purpose. I think I know what got me here... And I know that my heart is going to hurt for awhile while I de-tox from this addiction...

Is there a place for me here??

I don't know where else to go... no one knows what I am going through... No one knows about him. Now you do.

I've been married almost 12 years... we've been together for +14. There is little or no communication in our relationship... we've tried "couseling" but he always leaves and says, "I'm happy with our marriage. We don't have any problems." He is an alcoholic who has started drinking again in the last year. This has added to my lonliness and apprehension. He has stayed out several nights in the last 2 months until 2 or 3 am. I finally told him NOT to come home drunk, and if he couldn't come home by 11pm, NOT to come home. We have 5 children and I homeschool... It is very draining... I feel like I'm in this alone. To his defense, I must add, he talked with our pastor (again) last Sunday, and now says he is asking God to take the addiction to alcohol away. And that he wants to do better and wants us to be friends. There has been NO movement (IMHO) on his part since then. I know it is only THURSDAY!! but I'm sinking so fast, I need to see some hope, something!! Anything!! He comes home late in the evenings, tired and there is just nothing left over for me... Tuesday night, I did ask him if he wanted to talk... and he said he would try and promptly went to sleep... I feel very selfish in my needs. I know he works hard so I can stay home and care for the children. (13yob, 8yog, 6yob, 3yob, 19mob) What a struggle... guilt, guilt and more guilt!!

Well, I'm going to post this as is... I hope you can sort through it. I could really use some feed back!

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: LosinMyMind ]</small>

WOW!

Where to start?

1st... STOP chatting w/ online friend. Do something for YOU instead... read the articles here and old posts... there are LOTS of recommended books.

2nd... look into an al-anon group for support. There you will learn more about addiction to alcohol and how to stop enabling and co-dependent behaviors.

3rd... you mentioned prayer... are you plugged into a church where you can get support...

What I mainly read is that you are lonely and feeling abandoned... your online friend helps you plug up those holes... figure out what your main emotional needs are... your H is probably NOT going to be able to meet them while battling his own alcohol addiction, so you have to look for BETTER ways than another person...

Focus on YOU... and what YOU can do. You can only control YOU.

Cali

OOPs... didn't answer your original question...

FOG is...

confusion.

fantasy.

contrary words and actions.

acting out of character.

reality doesn't match beliefs.

not being authentic.

knowing what is true, but living like it's not.

living as if our dream of the world we created is true.

FOG.

Welcome to MB. Most of us are BS (betrayed spouses) but there are many, many, many WS (wayward spouses). Heck, if you haven't read the New Users post - Go do it now so you can understand all the initials. I find it hard to talk without using them (!).

Anyway, I can somewhat relate to you and the advice I am going to give is based on my experience.

My husband knew personally the OW. He worked with her albeit she was at another branch. They chatted mostly and sent emails and became emotionally involved. Then they had one (?) physical session.

You must stop contacting him now. If you want or even don't want it to work, you need time to think straight and he won't help you. Get rid of the email account, email address, icq numbers or whatever it is you use.

Also, I think you need to tell your husband. My husband didn't tell me - I find out about it because he didn't log out from his email. Yeah, it was snooping but I don't feel bad I did it.

It is going to be very rocky but maybe this is what you need to shake things up and possibly get back on the road to recovery?

I can't help with the alcoholism issues. There are others who will jump in and help.

Have you done the questionnaires on this website? That is a good place to start. Have him do them too. I'm still waiting for our questionnaire chat to start.

I see others are already posting helping you so I will go now.

Good luck, we are here for you.
DB

OMgosh!!

I live in FOG!!

Please follow Cali's and dazedblonde's advice.

Flush that goldfish pronto and DO NOT go back to the pet store. That goldfish is a carp.

If you chose not to follow the advice you'll hear here, please divorce your H before going fishing again.

Hi Losin
What you are having - an online relationship - is basically an emotional affair. It doesn't matter if you have cybersex or not. One doesn't need to frequent the "Yahoo Married And Flirting" chatrooms to have an online affair. You are emotionally attached to this other man. Some may justify it by saying "but we're not talking sexually" but it's still an EA (emotional affair). I know it is hard to break off with him, believe me, but it won't get any easier as time goes on. I speak from personal experience. The thoughts and chats you share with this other person will stay with you for years. Every time the weatherman mentions his state will be a reminder of this other person.

I totally agree with everything Cali said. Al-Anon would help you, AA would help your H. You're right, you cannot do this alone. Hopefully you have friends / family who can help you. And God can use others here at MB and in support groups (like AA and Al-Anon) to help you cope. Please be open to those.

You need to find something more constructive to fill your hours with every time you get an itch to go online and open up your friends list. This difficulty will be exacerbated by the fact that to come to this MB site, you will need to turn on the computer. Is your chat friends list on your ISP, or is it on another vendor like yahoo? If it's on another IM vendor, you may want to uninstall it to help you take that extra step away from the situation. However, if you are using AOL or MSN and their buddy list, that will be more difficult to do. Of course, you can take him off, and block him but as you've found out, it's easy to give in.

Dazedblonde brought up a good point about disclosure to your H. I would certainly be open to it, and pray about direction. It could open the door for discussion with your H about your entire marriage, and put things on a better track. But unless HE is also willing to make some lifestyle changes, it may be wise to wait. Let's see what others post on that subject.

Standing with you!

Sometimes 'fog' can be a misleading term...it implies temporary insanity, that the WS didn't fully understand the consequences or their actions. IMHO, that is total BS(not betrayed spouse, the other one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). If the WS was truly in a 'fog' they wouldn't go to great lengths to conceal the A, they would be oblivious to the rest of the world and the A would be out in the open.

My FWH multiple EA/PA started as on-line relationships. You do yourself a great disservice if you truly believe the OP knows and understands you. They don't, all they see is what you show them and I'm sure you only show the best parts of yourself. You are guilty of taking something away from your M and expecting H to put it back. You are addicted to the 'false' sense of happiness and worship that your online friends give you. Real life issues and problems don't interfere in an online, virtual world; that creates a false sense of life being better somewhere else, with someone else. Unless, you go into a catatonic, delusional, psychotic state then reality has a way of following you everywhere.

You are tired and unhappy. Understandably so with kids and daily responsibilities. The bad thing is that you are looking outside your M to solve this problem. What do you think your online friends can do from their virtual world to rescue you? Answer: nothing. Your problems must be solved from inside your M. Life has overwhelmed both your and your H. Together, the two of you can overcome this but, it won't happen until you end your fantasy life.

It's time to talk to your H. Do whatever it takes to get him to recognize just how bad things are for you. Go to a IC if you have to. You and H need to go to MC. You should be discussing problems and successes with your H and not a online friend. You are involved in an EA. Ask yourself how receptive you'd be if your H told you he'd met a friend online, that he told this person his problems, he took time away from his family and M to talk with this person, he felt talkintg to you was hopeless that you didn't understand. Hello! You'd be devastated.

Just curious ... is the 13-year-old son your husband's child?

You are MUCH stronger than you think!!

I see many things in you to admire <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad you came here ... and POSTED !!!!!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
Just curious ... is the 13-year-old son your husband's child?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, they are all our children. We married when our first son was 15mo.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
If you chose not to follow the advice you'll hear here, please divorce your H before going fishing again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Strong words!! And thanks for you frankness! I'm doing NO MORE FISHING... honest!! And I will implement the advice here!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cali:
What I mainly read is that you are lonely and feeling abandoned... your online friend helps you plug up those holes... figure out what your main emotional needs are... your H is probably NOT going to be able to meet them while battling his own alcohol addiction, so you have to look for BETTER ways than another person... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Somebody, anybody!! Tell me how to plug these holes!! I'm sinking in it!

Ok... may I vent a bit... While this may be an EA... and after all the reading I've done, I have come to this conclusion myself... I only want a healthy relationship with my DH!! I've dealt with his alcholism for over 14 years... It "went into remission" (for those who believe it is a disease) only to rear it's ugly head on occasion but more consistently in the past year. I agree that this online relationship is a WRONG decision on my part, but I'm tired of carrying the marriage relationship. I've always been the strong one. I've held this marriage together. I'm raising the children, I'm making the family decisions, I've read the books, I've sought the counseling, and now I'm the WS??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> You have GOT to be kidding!!!

I am so sick at heart that there are NO words to describe it... I don't sleep... I've had chronic bowel problems for 6 months, I cry all the time, I am in such a state of guilt and despair! I can end this EA!! But NOTHING will change! I will only be lonlier!

This is a vent, not a threat or definitely not a cry for sympathy. I just need to hear from you alumni. Help me to snap into a reality I can live with!!

Cause, just to be honest, the fantasy is much nicer!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Little by little, you will find the help you need. It won't all come at once because no single one of us knows all the answers.

But, please allow me to make an observation right away: through your EA, now you have a little personal experience with your husband's disease - addiction.

losin...

I would hazard a guess that over 90% of BS were sick and tired of being sick and tired... many of us had JUST as many excuses, reasons, justifications to be WS, too.

Fidelity is a promise best made to yourself. Your integrity is your integrity.

That is EXACTLY why I said to focus on YOU:

(from: www.marriagesavers.org/how_to_live_your_life_in_the_fac.htm )

Stabilize yourself:

SELF:

S...Spiritually-Time in prayer, reading the Bible, joining a good church
E...Emotionally-Stop the "I love you, I hate you!" cycle
L...Lovingly-Rebuild the relationships with: your extended family--mother, father, siblings, aunts, uncles, etc.
F...Financially-Get on a stable cash basis. Reduce debt!



Cali

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Cali ]</small>

"The fantasy is much nicer." .... yup. Spoken like a true spouse of an alcoholic. (I'm one too ... mine's sober in AA for nearly 7 years)

Our ability to substitute fantasy for reality is what got us into the marriage with an alcoholic in the first place!!!!

The fantasy relationship is much like your "drug". Your H drinks to escape reality ... and you slip into your fantasy world as well.

ALANON is GREAT!!!!!!!

I'm praying for you.

Pepper

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ALANON is GREAT!!!!!!!

I'm praying for you.

Pepper </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Pepper... and I've already been to the Alanon site...looking for a group in my area... I've been in alanon back when.... but I guess I need to be reminded of the principles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fidelity is a promise best made to yourself. Your integrity is your integrity.

That is EXACTLY why I said to focus on YOU:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cali, I've printed that whole article off!! And thanks for reminding myself that I have to be true to me!! "#5Circumstances are no more responsible for your attitude than a mirror is for your looks. They just reveal who you really are." How hard that was to swallow!! Who am I? What has become of me?? I have truly allowed myself to justify my actions... It MUST stop!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, please allow me to make an observation right away: through your EA, now you have a little personal experience with your husband's disease - addiction. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't hold back, WAT! Really!! It took me several reads of that one... gulp! Thanks for being real!! And honest!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I just got a call from DH... He'll be late again... sigh...........

Dear LosinMyMind
I am new here but sympathise with your situation. I agree that you need to face up to this online relationship being an EA and stop it . But I am posting because I am struck by your apparent isolation-you sound quite depressed and I think that you have a lot of reasons to be clinically depressed. Are you on antidepressants? I don't think you should underestimate the stress of having 5 children,all quite young,homeschooling,so I assume no break from them,no time for yourself,and an H who is absent a lot and is struggling with alcoholism. Please consider seeing your Doctor about this??? Also have you any family nearby who can help give you a break? You cannot help your H unless you are stronger yourself.
hope that helps,keep posting, I ahve found it so helpful!
Deluded

I'm glad you posted here. THere are so many people here who can help!

It is late now, but I just wanted to second the notion that you should STOP all contact with this man. I wish I had done that, myself. I met the man I was talking with online, had an A with him that lasted YEARS--bottom line, I'm now divorced.
I started out talking to OM online out of loneliness, too. My exH worked night and weekend hours, and I was alone much of the time--no adults around me, only kids. I am SO GLAD you came here, again, and wised up to the problem in what you were doing.

God Bless,
HP

Deluded said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you sound quite depressed and I think that you have a lot of reasons to be clinically depressed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Deluded, I've always thought of addictions, depression, and the sort as a state of mind... So, no, I've never considered that I could be depressed! You are not the first person who has pointed out that I might be depressed. A friend suggested it a few months ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I will look into it!!

HP said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am SO GLAD you came here, again, and wised up to the problem in what you were doing.

God Bless,
HP
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks HP!! And I have not contacted him since posting here yesterday! I know that seems like only a short time, and it is, but yesterday was my DDay. Strange, isn't it, that I discovered my EA??

UPDATE: I did try to talk to DH about my loneliness, but he uses the same argument he always uses... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm busting my butt to pay bills and take care of us and I don't have any more to give... I've been like this our whole marriage... I haven't changed!! I don't know what you want!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I feel a lot of guilt for feeling like I need more from him. I even told him I'd be glad to give up anything to help him to be home more. Cable, internet, we have an extra vehicle, lunches out and extra outings with the kids, ANYTHING... He says it would not help. That if he were home he couldn't </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> just sit around the house with you! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that what I want?? That ISN'T what I want!! Apparently, I'm not communicating to him what I want! We both have a communication problem! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thanks for all your replies... I hope to hear more from you!!

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: LosinMyMind ]</small>

LosinMyMind, the term "depression" covers a wide spectrum of conditions, from plain old sadness to suicidal . But although in some cases it may well be a state of mind, it is also a recognised,bona fide,illness like any other illness. So I really hope you will look into it.And I also think that you are probably not much fun to be around at the moment-depressed people aren't! So no wonder your H doesn't want to spend more time at home if he feels burdened with your unhappiness! A lot of people struggle with the concept of depression but if yours is confirmed and validated by your Dr,and treated appropriately your H may well respond to you more. Don't forget he is struggling with his own problem also! I think the Al-Anon support group(or whatever the one for families affected by alcoholism is called in the US) would be a great start for you. I hope you feel better and stronger for posting-and you should feel better for approaching your Dr too-hope you have a good one!
Good luck and remember ,keep away from the OM-there are better ways to make yourself feel better that are constructive not destructive!
Regards,
Deluded