I feel kind of stupid talking about this because my sex life has never been a big problem even during and after W's 2 year A with best buddy OM, and even since d-day almost a year ago. But life is different now, we've been through counseling, I have read a bunch of books and visited this site with all of you, always trying to learn more about the dynamics of relationships and trying to be a better H and make my M better, not just affair proof. So where am I?

I am at a point where I don't know if I should accept what I have and be grateful or press for more frequent sex. The dilemma is that in counseling it became clear that one of the attractions of the A was that my W called the shots, i.e. they had sex when she felt like it and according to her it wasn't that often or even that good. As self serving as it sounds I take this as true and even engaged in a little verification activity early on in my snooping stage. Also in counseling it was revealed to me that there were times when I was being "serviced" by my W, usually a BJ to make me go to sleep. I didn't pick up on any resentment from her at those times and always exprssed my appreciation for those times when she was clearly not in the mood. I have been careful since counseling to not "require" or press for sex, including something which for me was a big growth step, actually having foreplay, getting aroused and not doing the woowoo but going to sleep in my "tent" instead. (I'll bet that poor SOB OM had to do this a lot, at least I hope so!) W has also said that if you have sex all the time then it is not special. And as a part of my devoted self improvement, medal please, I have read a bunch of romance books, taken up esalen massage, filled the room with candles and hot oil, gone to Hawaii and numerous romantic resorts and had some of the best sex ever in and out of the jacuzzi. But it all comes back to frequency even if I feel like a jerk complaining about it. It seems intractable, if I become demanding and get obligatory sex, she is resentful. If I shut up and wait for fruit to fall from the tree on its own I get frustrated and starve. I have to admit my sense of "justice" is somehow offended. I feel like hey it takes five minutes and you can go back to reading your book, it seems such a small imposition I don't get why it requires such emotional groundwork or perfect conditions. For me every time doesn't have to be the like we are in Venice on the Grand Canal. I love those times and will try to make them happen as often as I can, but after a hard day at work, no pun intended, I really like those 5 minute specials.I am ready every day and sometimes more. I don't want to have to choose between my feeling good or her feeling good, I want to have her feel good making me feel good. This week nothing has happened since Saturday, I've come to bed showered shaved robed and ready every night this week. But we'll probably have some killer sex on the weekend, really great stuff, tender, loving the works. So should I just shut up and be happy? Am I asking too much? Is it a love buster to want more?

Jack

I'm glad to see the sex topic discussed. I wasn't sure if we could talk about it on here or not.

First of all, let me say, Jeez, Men!! They want it all the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I think most other men will agree that getting it once a week would be wonderful. Am I wrong?

I don't think I know your story so I don't know the answers to the following questions:
1. Kids, if so how many and what ages.
2. Does your wife work, if so what type of job?
3. How does she rate sex on her EN list?
4. Does she do a lot of committee meetings and volunteer work?
5. Does she do all the housework or just some of it?
6. How much sleep does she require?

Maybe she's just too tired to perform every night. Maybe she would rather do it at another time of day? Mornings or nooners? I guess you've talked about this? Maybe she's worried the kids will walk in, hear?

I think it's great you want your marriage to be better and affair proof. Good for you!!!!

What I would like to know is this:
I just found out about affair 8 days ago. (When will I stop counting?) I would probably be more like your wife, once a week at best. I am involved in community and our two kids' lives and work and do all housework. Actually, we hadn't had sex in two months, now realizing that was since affair became physical.

Now, however, I can't get enough of my husband. I want him all the time. I can't even count the number of times we've had sex this past week and I would love a nooner right about now.

Is this sick? Normal? What's wrong with me??
DB

IMHO I think that if a woman is emotionally ready - if her most important EN's are met, she will want to fulfill your EN of sex. I have to say from my experience that if my H wants sex I am totally willing and ready almost every time. He's absolutely wonderful at fulfilling my need for conversation (big EN for me), so once that's taken care of I am extremely willing and love sex.

I did find however, that if my EN's are not met, I am not as interested. Most women really need to have conversation and lots of it hours before to feel a sense of connection to her H.

It seems like you are doing all the right things - the candles, massage, etc., but have you tried talking to her. Ask her how her day was, really listen. That goes a long way.

I agree with dazedblond however, that if she's overwhelmed and tired there's not much you can do but wait until she's not exhausted.

Keep trying and I hope you get a lot of responses with other ideas.

First to answer Db, this is normal in lots of cases I think. I think it is part of reclaiming our spouse, our sex life, what is rightfully ours. Go with it. It will slow down as you begin to feel more secure with your relationship and where it is heading. Our renewed sex life stayed vigorous for about a month, then settled down to about every other day with all of it being mutually initiated and participated in. Then 7 months after d-day I got pregnant, which has KILLED my desire. I will be sure to put renewed effort into regaining the every other day, mutually enjoyable sex after this baby is born.

Now, to Jack. First of all, sex is most enjoyable when the -shall I say "ultimate conclusion" is experienced by BOTH partners at some time during the encounter. This is something my H had to learn and after about 4 years of marriage, he finally started including my desire for pleasure, making time for ME, instead of just wanting to satisfy himself. This did help immensely, but he still copped an attitude if I ever "turned him down." How can this be fruitful to a marriage? Marriage, even sex, is about considering the OTHER person!! And yes, your wife should be considerate of your desires, but by your own post, it seems like she's gone well out of her way through the years to stop what she's doing and service you - gaining no pleasure for herself.

No it doesn't have to be candles, etc all of the time. But find out what arouses her and take some of your "so special/precious time" and spend it warming her up! My H and I have discovered that him kissing and caressing my back, especially around my waist line, is a HUGE turn on for me. So, when he's in the mood (and he's not sure I am), he rolls me over, lifts my shirt, and proceeds to turn ME on. Just knowing he's thinking of pleasing someone other than himself during our lovemaking time is a mental turn on in and of itself.

Men and women ARE different when it comes to sex. But as my H has aged, he's decided that QUALITY is better than QUANTITY. And I do try to be sensitive to his sexual appetite. But your wife might not be at a point to do that. You can't "fix" her problems. Communicate with her about your feelings, and allow her to buy books, etc. that might help her address her side of this dilemma.

I've also realized this past week ( OH I can't believe I'm about to tell you this) that if you go to bed partially naked or totally naked, the urge for sex is there more than not. So, that is what I intend to do from now on. Go Buff!

db

1. Kids, if so how many and what ages. 3, 20, 15, 10
2. Does your wife work, nope.
3. How does she rate sex on her EN list? not high
4. Does she do a lot of committee meetings and volunteer work? none.
5. Does she do all the housework or just some of it? i am a big helper
6. How much sleep does she require? a lot but she gets it.


comment, i wanted it every 5 minutes after dday, but tapered off, i think it was spart of recoverey and anyway it must have played a part since we are doing well.

jamup,

i hear ya, we talk and we go on walks we court and we can "synchronize" withe best of them. W tells me I am great, the best ever etc, tells others too, but I don't want to choose between quality and quality. I want both, I am ready for 5 hours or five minutes but not ready for nothing.

Jack

Not trying to be ugly or anything, but as long as you make sex about YOU, she'll sense it and resent it.

At least I would.

Dear Jack-
Okay, you took all the wind out of my idea sails with the answers to my questions.
She should be plenty well rested and have enough time and sleep to be at your beck and call 24/7.

Have you talked frankly with her about this? I can't seem to find if you have said this or not? Maybe she has problems with sex that she has never told you about, like pain, or something else.

Other than that, I think it's cold showers for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Jack218, what are your wife's top EN's and are you fulfilling them? Does SHE feel loved by you?

Does she think about sex often or have any hang ups about it?

Do you know how she likes it? What you have tried to do sounds really wonderful, truly, its impressive, but are you doing what she wants when she wants it and how she wants it both before during and after.(I really don't want details <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) Uh, and actually I'm not talking about candles and holidays, I'm talking about the "hands on" stuff, if you'll excuse the pun...

No, you shouldn't nag her about it, but you should find a way to communicate this to her without nagging - this is a part of setting boundaries. It's your EN and its important to you, therefore it is important to your marriage to work on this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like hey it takes five minutes and you can go back to reading your book, it seems such a small imposition I don't get why it requires such emotional groundwork or perfect conditions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a fundamental difference between men and women. Don't try to work it out, it just is. If you want those 5 minute specials, you're going to have to do a bit of work for them. Foreplay has to start WAY before you get to the bedroom!

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

Thanks Seahorse, but what are you doing up at 430AM? I think I am doing pretty well on emotional needs except for one, the need for space. It is my biggest challenge. My W says she needs more space but it is tough for me for three reasons. One, last time I gave you space look what happened, ouch. two, I am probably normally extra needy now, and 3 I just can't get it through my thick skull that she should'nt or may not want to be with me as much as I want to be with her. Three is the hardest because I know that the A was perfect in this regard, I'll see you today or I won't see you today, we'll make love today or we won't make love today, etc. OM was totally satisfied with whatever he got. But this is a marriage and I am not a boyfriend! Also, my idea of a good time is to hang out with my W, I really don't have a lot of independant activities maybe need to work on that to.
As for sex, the feedback I have always received has been great, what she wants when etc. The result is uniformly outstanding, some of this filters back from her close friends and their husbands who make jokes about me when we are out at dinner and the like, i.e. Jack you're being Superman makes us all look bad ha ha ha, when are you going to teach us your secrets ha ha, you know friendly kidding but the reputation has to come from W to her friends to their husbands. W even says , (get this maybe I am my own worst enemy), because sex with me is so overwhelming, emotional and exhausting that she has to "space it out." So I don't know but based on what I've seen and heard I'd have to guess that I am doing OK. Here's another beauty the OM was dysfunctional, not sure which is worse for my ego this or the other way around but hey I'll take it, and part of the attraction I think was the helping the helpless aspect, his weakness made her more powerful. Could that make a woman feel more sexy even ? More in control? Less threatened? You know the only comlaint my W has made in thirty years ? Seriously you're gonna think I am bullsh.ting but it is that I am "too big" at times. Thx for listening.

Jack

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but what are you doing up at 430AM </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I live in Australia, so its not 4.30am here. Plus I was waiting up to ring Steve Harley at midnight for an appt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> think I am doing pretty well on emotional needs except for one, the need for space. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you giving her any time alone or is what she's asking for enough to fit in another man? Do you feel like you have to 'watch' her now, because last time she strayed? Also, you are feeling insecure because of this, which is totally understandable. When you spend time with her, are you doing what she likes to do (I don't mean sex wise, I mean just normal stuff wise, this time) - have you read the Five Languages of Love by Chapman?

Also, what do you like to do in your spare time? (other than the obvious). Do you have hobbies, other friends where you can be your own person?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't have a lot of independant activities maybe need to work on that to.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, you just answered that for me. OK, here is a new task for you. What does Jack218 enjoy doing? Before you met, what kind of stuff did you do, or as a kid? Were you the sporty type, did you like photography, swimming, surfing, underwater basket weaving? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Is there anything you've always wanted to do? Now's the time to do it. I have a "No Regrets" list I made up after D-day. It has stuff on it like go SCUBA diving (which I did). Go horseriding (which I did), start dance classes (which I did). Buy a motorbike (yet to do), go to South America (yet to do).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for sex, the feedback I have always received has been great, what she wants when etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, that's good. You've got that under control, just make sure you keep the dialogue going with her for new ideas or changing desires.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> because sex with me is so overwhelming, emotional and exhausting that she has to "space it out." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear God! Maybe you need to slow it down a bit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and part of the attraction I think was the helping the helpless aspect, his weakness made her more powerful. Could that make a woman feel more sexy even ? More in control? Less threatened? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, not for all women, but maybe for your wife this is true. She says she feel overwhelmed when you make love, its emotionally exhausting for her - Why? Maybe this is a nice way of saying she feels like she feels powerless and has no control - sex shouldn't be emotionally exhausting, it should be fun. Could you try to start dialogue about that and see what she thinking there?

The last complaint I'm leaving well alone. I can't help you there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />