How did you celebrate Christmas after d-day? How was it different?

OR

Has anyone ever been in the situation where your family (parents, inlaws) found out about the affair, then you separated, then you got back together, and then you had to spend Christmas with the family? (Like I will have to do, if we reconcile.) How on earth did you do it?

I am getting unusually anxious about my H deciding what he wants since Christmas is coming and both of our families are wanting to know what he and I are doing for Christmas. I am sure he is getting pressure from his family to make a decision too, since Christmas has always been a big to-do with them. (At this point, my H and I have seen each other 3 times, and talked on the phone once briefly. He still doesn't know if he wants to be with me. I absolutely want to try being with him again.)

I haven't and can't bring myself to buy any Christmas decorations for my apt. My H has already put up Christmas lights at home. I am really wishing Christmas wasn't only 1 month away.

So tell me your Christmas stories please!

Jen

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Jen-

I can imagine that you're not looking forward to spending time with his family as a WS but it's something you'll have to tackle sooner or later. If he suggests that he wants both of you to celebrate with his family, then just do it and try not make it bigger than it it. Everyone makes mistakes and as the saying goes "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

I'm sure you realize this, but your apprehension and fear leading up to the get together is most likely worse than the reality of going through with it will be. Keep in mind also that your resolve to be there will be a HUGE comfort to your H (I know it would be for me if my WW made the effort.) Good luck and keep up the good fight!

Jen-

Well, my response is going to be a little different. I think you should really leave it up to your H. If he wants you there, by all means go with, but if he might feel a little more comfortable going alone this year, give him a little break.

Now, I'm the BS and our D-Day was in Aug last year. By Christmas I still didn't want to be anywhere near my H because I hurt so bad when I was around him. Unfortunately, I didn't have a choice. We have 2 kids and have gone to the "family" parties every year since we have been together (10 years). No one "knew" what was going on except my sister (she had a similar experience in her marriage and I needed someone to talk to, BTW, she was the WS and BS in her marriage), and it would have been hard to explain my absence, especially because Christmas is my favorite time of year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, I went, and was aboslutely MISERABLE the whole time <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Had to keep saying I just didn't feel well (That got old after a few hours)!! I think it would mean a lot to your H if you gave him the option. Make it clear that you would like to be with him, but the final decision is his.

Just my $.02 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen

Don't know what to tell you except, neither H or I are looking forward to Christmas - seems a bit false trying to be happy, celebrate, have a good time, when everything seems so difficult, painful and hard. H even said he wasn't sure whether he wanted to spend Christmas with me or not.

If your H wants to spend Christmas with him, be grateful for that, and be happy that at least you are together. Sorry, but this might be an unpopular view - stuff what everyone else thinks!!! What your H thinks is important, and what you are doing to try to repair the damage is important.

One thing, H is considering (and has asked me too) about doing some voluntary work on Christmas day. This would be something completely different (for both of us), and may remind us that there are always people worse off than ourselves.

BTW how are things generally? Has there been any more contact? I know you don't always want to post because sometimes responses can be harsh, but I hope things are going well for you.

Take care and wishing you well from rainy London.

Lisa

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

I certainly wouldn't even begin to expect to spend Christmas with my H and his family unless he asked me to. If he does, I am absolutely willing to do it, even though I fully expect many sly insults and nasty remarks throughout (his parents, 4 brothers, and 4 grandparents all know I cheated on him - it was his decision to tell his mom who told them all). I have even offered to apologize to each and every one of them for the upset and embarrassment I have caused them.

The trick is this though, he may use my affair as a reason to avoid my parents, and refuse to spend time with them at all. He has always made me feel like my parents weren't as good as his, and that his family always had to come first because they are bigger, better, etc. So I may find myself struggling with standing up for my family (maintaining my boundaries here) IF he asks me to spend Christmas with his family.

As for how I am doing, I am not doing so well this week. It's been a hellish week at work, and today I broke my husband's rule about me never contacting him. I emailed him and said the following, but got no reply, even though I know he got the email (I used the tracker so I know he read it):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Good morning,

How are you? I know you requested that I never contact you, but you didn't seem upset when I tried to do so last Friday, so I am being brave and trying to contact you a second time. Let me know if this is okay.

Since I haven't heard from you, I am assuming your weekend is already planned. However, if you are free, I'd like to invite you to come over
perhaps around 8pm tonight and maybe we can rent and watch a movie together, sort of like a date?

So e-mail me back and let me know what you think. (I'll be here a bit late today working on report cards. They are due next Tues., but I'm away Mon. on PD so I need to finish before then.)

Have a good Friday,

Jen:) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then when I got no response, and 6 hours had passed, I wrote him a second email asking him to just send me a reply with Yes or No, and made a comment about it being common courtesy to reply to an email.

I think it is crap that he treats me like I am less than a human being. I don't dare contact him. He can call me only when he feels like it. When he does see me, he makes many insulting or unkind remarks. Based on partial evidence, it appears that he spent last Friday night with his little EA female friend from work. I know I should to be patient, but I feel like he is treating me like crap. Jen had an affair, so she doesn't deserve common courtesy. I haven't had a genuine chance to prove to him how much I have learned and how much I have grown in our time apart, but does that mean I deserve to be treated this way?

I think my H is probably going to just end our marriage because he doesn't have it in him (too embarrassed) to be with me again in front of his family, that HE told all the dirty details to.

Okay, I've got my fire-retardant suit on. Flame me all you hurt and injured BSs if you like. I know it will at least help you vent some of your anger. If anyone has any constructive advice however, I would appreciate it. I am very cranky tonight!!!

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi Jen,

You do not deserve to be treated badly. This limbo is not fair. Even though he has contacted you, which for the record says alot, he still is not moving. He is still very much in love with you. Yes he is hurt, yes he was wronged. OK. No one denies that but being stuck in the mire is no solution for either of you. I think you should go back to the mindset you had before he contacted you. You were planning to talk with him about where you were at, and where you would like to see things go. He stopped that process by continuing this estrangement on his terms. It would be one thing if you both set parameters about recovery but he is not doing that. He is still living moment by moment. Stagnant. He may say his contact with you doesnt change things and he is right. It doesnt change things because he wont allow them to change. Giving him some power in the relationship is not a bad thing but it has to be tempered with progress. The way it is now nothing that was set up during the 3 mos no contact period has changed. You would have accepted contact with him earlier than his deadline-he knows that. So he has just extended this separation unilaterally. He does not realize that his own bad behavior is his worst enemey right now. His contiued bad treatment of you only keeps the pain alive for him and it will embitter him overall. Although his pain is real he is only intensifying it by this behavior. You have every right to be a part of this marriage, to contact him, to spend time wiht him, show him the better Jen. If he truly doesnt want that then he is going to have to be the one to stop you. Fact is you are still his wife, he has made no move to change that. Remind him of this fact. And explain to him that you understand what being a wife means...nothing anyone can do will erase the past but what both of you do now will determine the future. I really think you need and deserve a chance to lay it all out to him. Explain to him that the girl he feel in love with does exist, and has learned, and is determined to love him as she hadnt in the past. But that you both need a chance at marriage not a purgatory to torture you both. I think he actually hates himself for loving you as much as he does...he doesnt want to allow you to make him happy because it shames him. I understand I have felt this way too. It is something to empathize with but you both must recognize that wallowing in this feeling does no one any good.

One thing is clear to me...he has had every reason to end things with you, move onto single life, another woman. In the eyes of his friends and family he would be totally justified. But he cant do it. He cant let you go. He loves you too much. He is stuck in a cycle of pain from which only he can release himself, you can be there to comfort him but he has to accept that he is a man that has a wife who let him down...and yet he loves her deeply...beyond what he could fathom. Once he accepts who he is he will be able to see you and your changes more clearly. Can you open his eyes to this...this I cannot guarantee. But I think for both of your sakes it needs to be laid out to him. You both deserve a happy marriage. And it is quite possible because his love for you is strong if only wounded.

Remember Jen bad treatment is never justified. You are right to remind him of how you recognize how people's callous behavior can so hurt others. You understand that more fully now and this realization is not just relative to him and his pain but you and yours, it is relative to everyone for that matter. No one deserves bad treatment. He didnt deserve an affair even though he pushed you more than any man in his right mind should...still he didnt deserve it. The same applies for you, for me, for anyone. Common courtesy, kindness and concern is a expectation of adult society...not a hallowed gift bestowed on the deserved.

From my perspective you two need to talk things out...not in anger or in self-pity but with hope. If nothing mattered, nothing changed anything, then contact with him, dating him, relationship conversations with hiim, communication on any level with him wouldnt be forbidden and regulated by him. Point it...it all matters and he knows it. He is just stone cold scared to face reality. You know him best try to discern the best way to reach out to him and then do so. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Sorry this is so long and sorry I havent been around alot my sister had a baby last week. Joy Joy.

continuing prayers

ayslyne

Jen,

All you'll get from me is HUGS. Please believe me when I say it shows true character and integrity to try and do what you are doing. I know you love your H and I am sure he loves you too. I understand your hurt and anger at him as well. As you know, we cannot change anyone but ourselves. You have changed, dramatically. I have seen it. I only wish most, if not all, WS's would make the effort to save their marriages that you have. I wish my wife had given ours half the chance you are giving yours. Your H is hurt still. He has to deal with that on his own terms. I know you feel he is not giving you any respect. Believe me when I tell you I think you deserve respect. Anyone on this forum that says otherwise is a fool. Anyone who would dare attack you for being a WS, is a fool. We love you Jen, Unconditionally, and we always will.

Hang in there. We're here for you.

HW

Thanks so much for your support ayslyne and hw.

Well, all is not lost. At 8 o'clock my H called, pretty much on cue, and I apologized for the snarky email I sent when he didn't reply to the first one. He came over and we talked quite a bit. No real progress though, beyond getting to a point where we can just sit and talk again at length. He still talks divorce, still says he doesn't like people, has no friends, says that everything was taken away from him, and that he likes drinking, particularly when he is by himself. He reemphasized that he wants to be the one to contact me, and that I am not to contact him. But...he did call and come over when I reached out today.... Ah well, I will respect his wishes and let him make the next contact.

I am giving up on Christmas. This will be a much longer road than 1 month to enough recovery to spend x-mas together. If we do, it will most likely be some secret little meeting. None of his family know he and I are in contact.

When I listen to the way he talks, I have great difficulty imagining us together. He has such a negative view of the wife I was (or wasn't) to him over all the years of our marriage. When I say I want a chance to be a better wife to him, he says I'd probably be great for a couple months and then go back to taking him for granted, putting my job first, etc. BUT, that said, I am an eternal optimist for some unknown reason, so I won't give up. I'll just lower my expectations again, put on a brave face, and plan a when I can.

Sigh, I used to like roller coasters....

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Hi Jen, I'm not looking forward to first Christmas since D-day either. I don't feel like being with family, even though I know its really what I should do. I would love nothing more than H to say to spend it with him, but I doubt that will happen. I've though about working in a "soup kitchen" at least I can make someone else happy, if I can't make myself happy.

OK you are WS, but you still deserve to be treated with respect, unfortunately not all people will be like me though (especially his family). My father is v.angry with my H and I doubt he'd be very respectful at all if he ever sees him again - dad saw all the hurt. I would not want my father to be this way, but unfortunately I can't control my dad's behaviour - i can ask he be respectful though, and your H could do that too with his family.

Hugs

Thank God for sunny Saturday mornings. It helps to keep the tears at bay.

I am wondering today if it isn't a continuation of my selfishness (my number one charater flaw in my H's opinion) to want to continue the marriage. I really am entering this supposed recovery stage (even though my H still says that is not his goal, he still wants a divorce) with the attitude of "if my H doesn't treat me well enough and things don't feel right, I should leave him and move on." But is it fair to treat my H like this, to be unsure if he is truly what I want, to ask him to try at this even though I am not sure if I will stick around if it's not going well?

I have told my H that I want to remain married and I want to try to save this marriage, and that if he wants a divorce, he's going to have to file the papers. His response was that if he files the papers, I have no choice but to sign them. He says he hates people (people are cruel and can't be trused, etc.), doesn't have or want any friends, and would rather be alone. Well, he has those 2 female colleague/friends still. But he said he has them wrapped around his finger, they do whatever he asks all the time, it almost sounds like he is bored of them. He even hinted at the fact that he'd never be able to pursue a relationship with either of them because he'd never be able to live it down, it would almost justify my actions when I had an affair.

I have a friend who told me her H left his first wife because he cheated on her, and felt she would never be able to forgive him and that she deserved better, so he walked away. That isn't selfish behaviour.

Is it wrong and selfish for me to want to try to save this marriage when I'm not completely sure that I want to be in it?

Jen

Jen:

First of all I applaud you for making an effort to save your marriage. If more WSs made a committed effort, as you are doing, the world would be a different place.

But now that you have made a decision to save your marriage, you MUST take full ownership of that decision and try and reach your goal. The road ahead is going to be rockier than you've imagined. But you need to steadfastly plough through rough seas to make it to your destination. Write down for yourself the end result that you would like to have and each day remind yourself of your decisiona dn the effort that you may have to put to real your goal. Know also that it will take a great deal of effort, peseverance, patience and forbearance before your goal is attained. And keeping repeating to your H that you wish to save the marriage. But do so with dignity and do not lose hope EVEN IF HE FILES FOR D.

Reading your thread it is clear that your H is in deep hurt. He has to heal and you should help him heal. In the process he has to learn to forgive you, on his own. So please try, try and try. Be patient with him. Even on occassion, when everything seems over, keep trying. You will succeed....

I wish you the very best and will follow your thread at a discreet distance. So keep posting as often as you can and vent here on this board... But treat your H with kindness as he has a long road to recovery himself....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Is it wrong and selfish for me to want to try to save this marriage when I'm not completely sure that I want to be in it?
"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it isn't. You've been love starved by your H for some time now and you are now beginning to lose faith that he will ever start feeding you his love again. Your love bank is getting depleted and unless your H realizes this, his 'wish' for a divorce will come sooner than he expects. Sure you were the one who betrayed him with his BF but unlike other unrepentant WS's who still continue with the A long after D-day, you showed true remorse and willingness to rebuild your M, and thus, in my opinion anyway, deserve to be given the chance to do so.

Remember awhile back when I told you that it would be tragic if you finally decided to give up on your M and then your H decided he wanted you back in his life, only to find it was too little too late? I would suggest that you consider writting him a letter where you honestly tell him about your concern that you are getting to the point where you are not sure you want to rebuild the M at all if things keep going in the direction they are going. This will give him an opportunity to realize that you will not be waiting forever for him to decide one way or the other and that he still has the chance to do something about it. He, like you, has to decide whether or not he wants to continue to be married and if so, to make the committment necessary for marital recovery, otherwise the decision will eventually be taken away from him.

So please consider telling him about your fears and remind him that in life there are no guarantees only opportunities that open for a little while but eventually close for good.