In trying to understand my W, let her know I can listen to her and that she can feel safe with me I asked my W to talk a little bit about her feelings for the OM. She actually opened up more than I thought, but, I think I will stop doing this.

Of course I received the expected "he's the love of my life" type thing but what hurt the most is the following:

As you know she's coming up next week to spend Thanksgiving with him while my son is with me. If you recall the affair is strictly emotional at this point, so when I asked her if she was ready to take it physical she said she was ready emotionally. When I asked her if she would be ready to make love to him during this trip she answered no. Why? Because if she did, she would not want to return to TX! So I said that means that when she moves here in January this will happen, she said she doesn't know. When I reminded her that legally we were still married she just kept quiet.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> This is hard. I was able to control myself and when I almost lost it (crying) she said, "you see, I can't tell you these things because they hurt you." I answered her, "don't worry, I asked and I can take it." We were able to continue talking and I was able to listen to her. I will have to find ways to listen to her w/o getting hurt.

This is very maddening. It makes me sick to my stomach imagining my W with another man. It upsets me terribly, makes me want to cry and angers me. Typical reaction. What I am doing here is venting. This is the first time I listen to her w/o telling her how I feel and then coming over to the site to express what I couldn't to her. It will be the worst Thanksgiving ever for me, but I know what will keep me strong is that I will be with my son.

I perfectly understand where you're coming from. What you *always* gotta remember is that your WW at this stage is so called in the fog, abducted by an alien, what have you.
seriously - follow her argument through logically. compare it to her actions. does it make any sense? you see what I mean now.

She is responsible for her actions, as are you for yours. if she wants to go physical - that's up to her.

And, by the way, dont swallow your hurt, your feelings. show them. let her know exactly how you feel. otherwise the emotions just screw you up. if you can't take it any more - tell WW: excuse me, I need to take five. Do that especially if you are close to LBing.

be the best dad you can during these testing times - that's something to hold on to.

good luck
N

UC,
You are asking stuff that might be better left alone. You should be drawing attention to good things about her, good memories about your past, and talking about your son. Drawing attention to OM can have the effect of strengthing her connection to him.

We know it is all you think about but remember for a moment when you were first dating. What kind of stuff did you talk about. If she was dating someone else at the time, did you ask her if she were going to make love to him. Can you see where this is going?

What you want to do is sell you, not discuss her and OP. It has to be low key though. Talk about things that are good about her, talk about son, discuss family, stay on good topics. You know, whenever she says something good, say " I've always loved that about you."

One thing you can try if you are in public often is to listen to others that appear to be in love and see what they are talking about, and the way they interact.
When you start this kind of interaction, at first it feels forced but you'll catch on. I think it was Orchid that said she used to practice in front of a mirror so she could do a better job and look and sound natural. It helps even if you speak to her on the phone. You need to be happy, confident, and fun. Not hurt, and needy. You have got to fake that part, I know.

If you will be in TX before she moves, ask her on a date. You know her better than OM, you know what she likes, how to please her. Look to make her have fun. So often we get married and begin to do what we like, and forget to do things to please our wives, and it shows. We go see our family, forget to see hers etc. You have to be careful with all this, if you go to far, she sill see it as a ploy. If she says no, you'll get points anyway for asking.

You must also be prepared for PA while she is here. You will probably be able to see it in her face if it happens. Don't ask, and don't have R discussions while she is there unless she starts it. Remember OM doesn't have R discussions, he only wants to have fun. If you do find out, you can be sad, but don't be shocked. Look sad and say something like " I am sorry it has come to this, I love you and want to live my life with you, grow old with you. I still want that but this makes me very sad."

Remember you can leave any time you want if you change your mind. You have a great deal of power here, more than you think. You have the power to create a bigger, better UC no matter what she does. If you can let her see that person, she may become very attached to him. Transform YOU, you don't have the power to transform her. Work on you right now.
SS

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I guess what I was trying to do is make her feel at ease with me. Show her that she can still tell me things and trust me. What both of you are saying is I can still do this w/o bringing up her R with the OM. When I started crying, I could hear her tone of voice sounded worried about me. She told me, "what happened? you were doing so well." I was able to direct the conversation to a different topic. I guess it is similar to walking to another room if you can't handle it.

I still have a lot more to learn. My hardest thing to do is implementing what I learn. I feel like I am too slow at times. Looking back at the last month or so I notice changes in me (she does as well) and they are for the better. I haven't fought with her for a while. I go longer between LB's (I still haven't been able to stop them totally, but I'm getting there). I am controlling my emotions more and more. But I'm not there yet. I know I have to hurry up because every day that passes is another day she's walking towards OM.

In Michele Weiner-Davis' book, "The Divorce Remedy" she talks about not mentioning how you feel. This has been hard. It doesn't look like she sees the consequences of her actions and sometimes I want to point them out to her.

When will the OM start messing up?

Thanks for replying.

^ bump

bump

<strong>
In Michele Weiner-Davis' book, "The Divorce Remedy" she talks about not mentioning how you feel. This has been hard. It doesn't look like she sees the consequences of her actions and sometimes I want to point them out to her.
</strong>

slightly disagree with that book you quote here. I believe you SHOULD mention how you feel. Dont do it in a whining, demanding way, but tell her straight: look, I feel like s**t if go and see him, look, it really grinds me down and you know why? because I still love you.
If you just swallow everything, your WW might get the impression that it's actually OK and that you're actually fine. Not so.

COntinue to work on yourself, keep your head up, and tell her straight what & how you feel.

N

Nick,

I guess it is more like Dr. Dobson's Love Must Be Tough concept.

I agree with Nick,
she needs to know your feelings but a short comment, especially after she notices your discomfort is the way to do it. We are not saying you need to be superman, but if you stay away from R talks most of the time, you can find other things that will make deposits in her love bank. You standing listening to her and wishing you could die, or kill OM won't do that, no way you will ever be able to avoid bad feelings when she is saying she loves being with OM and he makes her happy. Stay away for you, more than anything. You can also show her you care by paying attention to things important to her, by being a good father, by being attentive when she talks to you, not trying to figure out what you are going to say next and missing some of what she says.

Remember, it takes time, it won't all come to you today, no matter now much you read or wish. As long as you want to work on it, we'll try and help. Please forgive me for not answering daily, sometimes I can't.

SS

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS,

don't feel like you have to answer me daily. Words of wisdome are welcomed anytime.

The last two days she's been so cold to me, in fact told me last night she didn't want to talk to me, period. This must be in anticipation of her trip up here. I don't know. Sometimes I feel I am ready to live my life without her, sometimes I feel very sad and upset. I have two pictures of my son at my desk and sometimes when I look at them I ask myself, "why, Mrs. UC, why are you doing this to us?"

I have to be strong. I may not be posting much the next few days because I will be spending time with my son. If I have a chance while he is asleep I will come by.

Thanks. This is the hardest test of my life and I was not prepared. I wonder is anyone ever really prepared for this? So far I feel proud of how far I've gotten, sometimes I think for what? she's still not here.

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: utterlyconfused ]</small>

The last two days she's been so cold to me, in fact told me last night she didn't want to talk to me, period. This must be in anticipation of her trip up here. I don't know.

Many report the WS can only be nice to one at a time, OM or H, but not both. I think it is the visit. She is preparing herself to be nice to OM. She may have already chosen to go to PA, and you have to prepare for that in your mind and choose how you will respond, but that is a choice too. Remember that you can grieve, but you have a choice how to treat her, and you can treat her much better than she treats you.

Sometimes I feel I am ready to live my life without her, sometimes I feel very sad and upset. I have two pictures of my son at my desk and sometimes when I look at them I ask myself, "why, Mrs. UC, why are you doing this to us?"
Remember, you can leave ANY TIME YOU WANT. You really can. You have that power. You have chosen to stay for more than one reason but it is a choice. Examine ALL the reasons, and see what your feelings are. Write them down.

This is the hardest test of my life and I was not prepared. I wonder is anyone ever really prepared for this?
Wouldn't be a test if it were easy. But, darn, it hurts.

So far I feel proud of how far I've gotten, sometimes I think for what? she's still not here.
Self improvement is never a waste. Perhaps she will come back, perhaps she will not, we don't know. I would give at least 6 more months. If she does move back and lives with OM, it will probably fall apart in time, almost always within a year to 18 months. Remember she is in an addiction, it is chemical as well as emotional for her. If she had a drug problem, and couldn't quit would you leave her? I don't have the links but research has shown this is true. The things she is doing, talking to OM etc. are like an addiction, and just as hard to get over.

I am not trying to put you on the spot, just getting you to think. She needs help, you are helping her. She is not responding very well. You have limits, we don't know where it will go.

That's why we say to put your plan on paper, and work it no matter what for quite sometime. If you feed off what she does, and says, you will quit soon, perhaps too soon, then you will share custody with your son until he is grown and moves out, and that's that.

Remember though, you can quit any time, you have the control over that. She may or may not quit, but you can any time you want. Hold on to the things you can do, you can make yourself into a much better person, that can control his thoughts and feelings, and you can leave if you ever decided it's time to leave. You can't control her, but YOU ARE FREE.

UC, have a good time with your son, be happy for the good in your life, there is still much good around you. Make a list, it may help. If you have to, do something over the holliday that takes all your concentration, so you have no time to worry.

SS

Time and time and again still seeking comes to the rescue with such great advice and words of encouragment.

Have a happy holiday, everyone.

Keep the faith, uc. You deserve much more than you're getting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
<strong>If you will be in TX before she moves, ask her on a date. You know her better than OM, you know what she likes, how to please her. Look to make her have fun. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the airport I did ask her if she wanted to join our S and I on three things I had planned for him. Of course she turned me down, so asking her out on a date may not be a good idea. This week she is just so cold to me, it is incredible. Must be the effect of the A.

You can always ask again, remember that unless she is totally gone, asking gets you some points even if she says no. It may not do much "right now" but often the WS will say much later that it helped.

UC, I feel so bad for you. We all know that she is not doing what is right. If you will still do what is right, you will be much happier from day to day than she will. I know it sounds crazy, and it won't take the pain away now, but you will be happier.

SS

Hey mate,
it's friday night, and you know what? life has rarely been better. now, I know that may not be of great help to you in your situation, but here you go anyway: you have a choice to make a) be miserable for the rest of you life about it, or, b) move on. please note that by "move on" I dont mean to dump you WW - rather to move forward towards a constructive future. Specifically, this might mean:
1) keep the door open. if she declines - it's up to her. remember: she does her thing, you control your reactions.
2) work on yoursel: for now, I want you to look in the mirror and crystal-clearly state what you see. what are your issues? which are the buttons you pressed on your wife? what are the emotional needs you didnt/couldnt fullfill with your wife? why couldnt you? what are you going to do about it? ... you see: plenty of work to do.
3) keep up the optimism! for cyring out lout - do you have any children? I think you dont/ see? it could be worse. now, do you think your WW relatinship with OM is based on reality, on day-to-day issues, or, is it rather an escape into la-la-land?

let us know how things are going.

Best

Nick from London, UK