Last night H went out from work - he does this often on a Friday. He telephoned me at 8.30pm and said he was at the station, but becuase of the bad weather trains weren't running. He said he'd call and let me know when he got a train.

At 10.00pm, he called again, and said he'd bumped into some people and was having a drink with them. I asked him which people. He said people from work - he knew them but not that well. I said, well OK, I'll see you when I see you. I was a bit upset, but thought I handled it well, there were no cross words, or anything.

I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM SINCE. It is now past 10.30am. I have left numerous messages on his mobile - not angry, just where are you I am worried about you, let me know you are OK. Given his really low state this week I am absolutely terrified, that

a) He's done something stupid to himself (please God no, surely I would have heard from the Police by now)
b) He's done something stupid - fullstop. Another woman, got in a bad fight whatever, and can't face me.

He was meant to have IC today - it's usually either 10.00 or 11.00am. I tried to telephone there at 10.00, but it was an answer machine. The last message I left for H, I said that I didn't care what he may or may not have done, just that he is OK and actually picking these messages up.

If anyone is out there please help me. I am going to try his IC again, see if someone answers the telephone between sessions (his sessions are 50 minutes).

Thank you.

Lisa

<small>[ November 24, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Lisa

Any news??? I think I would call the police. Truly!. Yes, he could have gotten truly pissed - still be asleep. Can you phone friends? His boss? Colleagues? Let us know what happens. Thinking of you.

R

Rosebrook

Thanks for coming by. I just got through to his C. She told me that he was due at 11.00am, and she usually gives people 20 minutes to turn up. If he does not show she will call me. She also said she would not tell him I called.

This happened once before during the early years of our R - but it was different. It was the Christmas party, H stayed with people he knew I didn't like and therefore didn't call me. I called everyone I knew and the Police. When he got to work, of course, he was embarrassed because everyone was saying "Lisa's had the Police out looking for you, best get on the phone". If she phones me back though to say he hasn't shown, I don't see what else I can do. I think I will also leave him a message to say, this is what I'm going to do. But, because his job is relatively new, I don't know the people he goes out with.

If he does turn up and his session, do you think I should go there and meet him, or just leave him to come home?

Thanks R.
Lisa

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

H's councillor just called me - he has not turned up for his session, neither has he phoned.

Given she knows him and his stress (I explained what happened last week briefly), she has said she will ring him and try to get through and let me know, if not she thinks it is more likely that he has had too much to drink and is sleeping it off. She said try to leave it till as long as possible (2.00p,/3.00pm) before calling Police and anyone else. I know the name of his boss and where she lives (she lives local). There is noone else.

The Councillor also said although cruel, he may well be punishing me sub-consciously even though he has said he does not want to.

Please help me if anyone is out there.

Lisa

dear lisa- so sorry to hear about this. are you ok? i've been in this situation, i kinda know how you feel. keep us posted.

Hello Nikko

Not really, just trying to hang on for a while and give him time. Just hoping hoping, that he's drunk too much, sleeping it off and feeling a bit ashamed ofhimself.

Lisa

Hello Lisa,
You must be so worried but I think you need to just hang in there. Did H say anything to make you be concerned that he was planning to self harm-because if not then even though he has been low this week then he probably is just taking some time out partly to think and yes,obviously partly to punish you and test you I suppose. He has not been gone a long time really even though it is out of character. I think that if you call the Police unless you can give them more info or some idea that he was suicidal that they are unlikely to act at this stage-its 1.30pm now so only just over 12 hours since he last made contact. Try and be calm, be realistic about what you can/can't do and I think I would phone his boss if he hasn't shown up by 2 or 3pm. What about his family? I think you would definitely know if he had been in an accident or incident provided he has ID on him.
When he does come home try very hard not to LB though I am sure that is what I would want to do-but make sure he knows you are happy he is home and were very worried for him.
Keep calm and keep posting so we know you and he are ok.

Deluded

Lisa,
everything will be OK. He was probably just blowing off some steam and had a bit too much to drink last night. He will come home, probably with his tail between his legs. I know you are worried, but have faith that he is all right and will be home soon.

Thinking of you,
Michael

Hello Everyone

The good news H is back in one piece safe and sound. The bad, he spent the night with a single young woman colleague - although he swears they just (his bloody word) kissed and slept him on the bed, her in it. I think I believe him, but the fact that he could be so f***ing cruel to me and not call and let me know he was OK has really shattered me.

I cannot spend much time now, but know that we are both OK, although I lost it big time, and I will post when I can. What I do know is that I cannot and will not continue to accept the verbal abuse, the accusations and the damn hurtful way that H is treating me. He needs to help himself.

I will post again when I can, but thank you to those of you out there today. I was physically sick with worry, because H decided to play it a bit naughty to make himself feel better.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Lisa

Lisa...I'm so glad to hear you've atleast got word. You're right, hubby is punishing you. That certainly fixes nothing. Just try to remember he's hurting deeply as well and just can't seem to figure out how to fix it. You might use this opportunity to your advantage and see if he's more open to marital counseling. It's too much to be trying to do on your own.

Lisa I am so glad H is ok.

Firstly-he is behaving in a very immature way but that reflects his turmoil. He did this to hurt you , and it worked, and now he probably regrets it big time.

Perhaps raising the subject of MC again would help-once you both are calm and rational again(well, as much as possible) .

Remember he did this to lash out at you. Which means he cares for you-otherwise why bother?

take care and look after yourself

Deluded

hey lisa
I am glad that nothing serious happened. at the same time, the concern you showed is a sign that there still *is* something between you and WH. and with regard to his actions - potentially slightly immature, but look at it as a cry of help - ball in your court there.
good luck!
N

ps - next time he's late on his train: hey, you're living in the UK, for god's sake! wrong kind of leaves and things, you know :-)

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lisa}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I feel so bad for you. I know what it is like to sit and wait and wait and wait and wonder what he is doing and whether he is alright ~ it's maddening. I can't believe he would behave this way ~ you did this to me so I am going to do it back to you????? I agree with you...it is time to put your foot down and stop accepting his verbal tirades and accusations. You have MORE than demonstrated in word and deed that you are sorry for what you did. When is going to give it up???? Know that we are here for you.

Brit's Brat/BS-41
FWH-43
DS-13 months
Status: One Day At A Time

Phew .... I cannot realy add to what has been said above. Just glad he is back; maybe this is the "point of inflexion" - nothing like a storm to clear the air! I reckon give yourself and H a bit of space and cooling off time - and then get to counselling together.
R

Dear Lisa,

I'm so sorry I wasn't here to help you yesterday - H and both kids were home all day, so I didn't get any time to go near the computer.

I'm very relieved that H is home now - I fully understand how you could be sick with worry - I ditto what has been said here - that he is punishing you - but that is part of how he is struggling to cope - I spoke to a psychiatrist friend yesterday about what is currently happening with my own husband and he said that yes, he will want to punish me, but accept that that is part of what he has to go through, and although it is hell for me and not justified, to accept it and let him get through that stage.

That's what I would pass on to you, too - and hopefully, your reaction to this - anger and worry and being deeply hurt will show him that you still have deep feelings about him - hopefully he will appreciate that. From what you said last week - about him feeling sexually inadequate, it sounds like he was trying to prove to himself that he could still "pull" a young woman - most men go through this crisis in their lives without having to confront having to face a real failure in their own marital life, so I would have to say that as painful as this was for you, I can understand why he would end up doing this.

I hope and pray that this leads to MC for both of you - the good thing is that he is still in IC.

Will be thinking about you today.

Take care,
LIR

Thank you all for stopping by yesterday and today. I cannot begin to tell you the extreme panic and angst I was in yesterday. The thought of H being so low that he had done something terrible to himself and then me having to deal with that as well as everything else was frightening beyond belief. Thankfully he is OK.

So, here's the story, it may be a bit long, so bear with me.

H gets absolutely pissed out of his brain and goes back to his single female colleague's apartment. I do believe him that a)other than kissing, nothing further happened b)that he feels no attachment or emotion towards her whatsoever and c)that he is truly sorry for being selfish, cruel, thoughtless and plain stupid.

H explained to me that he did not think about me at all, and that is why he didn't telephone me (even in the cold light of day when sober and hanging around with that b**ch having a cup of tea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> !!!!) He believes that he only did it because he wanted to feel better about himself (although he feels like ****e now), and that he will have no contact with her other than professional. Yup, I can accept all this. But, it doesn't stop my anger with him for putting me through sheer hell, and that I don't know what her motives might be. A single woman actively taking an interest in someone whom she knows to be married - well, say no more. H does not think she is like that (when did he get to know her so well?) - but enough. I have to believe him. I also believe that this was not necessarily about revenge - maybe sub-consciously, but as he said (and it was painful to hear) - he didn't even think about me.

We actually talked yesterday, and I used a lot of things from here that I have learnt. I told H that his cycle is "anger, hurt, upset, then sorry" and whilst I could understand it was me who got him to that point, I could not continue to be his emotional punchbag. I also told him that the person who he wanted to turn to (me), couldn't help him out with this, because I'm causing his anger. I told him that most of his anger is directed towards OM, but because he's not around he's turned it on to me, but even worse, himself. I said that he was not to blame, but I knew he blamed himself and that made him angry.

I realised that H has emotionally detached himself from not only me (hence not even thinking about me and how I might feel), but his children and his friends. I told him that those are the people who can help him get through, plus some serious councilling. We talked about how he needs to start re-building with people, and I suggested a specific friend I thought he should get in touch with. I also suggested that he asks the girls to go out, maybe a film, or for lunch, shopping, not just to come to the house and sit around. He wondered how he might approach his friend (whom he has not seen in a while), and I said with truth "Tell him, Tim I haven't seen you for a while but I could really do with a mate, could we meet up?" Already, H has phoned his councillor today to re-fix his missed appointment and his eldest D to go out on Thursday night.

When H told me that he didn't even think about me, I sadly told him, now you know where I was coming from - it wasn't about you per se. He acknowledged that. It was funny, but we could both see things (although of course what H did is no where near as bad as my A), from each other's point of view. It was like H understood how I could have got carried away without even realising it. And I could experience a little of his pain. H told me that I had absolutely hit the nail on the head with how he was feeling and why he was behaving as he was, and we even joked that he should pay me 40 quid for councilling!

What H also realised and had accepted (why he had been so depressed) is that he acknowledged that OM and I did have real feelings for each other, and he couldn't just put it down to "a series of shags". He talked again at the pain of having to accept that OM and I had a certain "oneness" which perhaps we have never had. Coming to terms with this had deeply affected him coupled with being back in Germany.

I told H that he must get help for himself, and that I found it difficult to trust him, because each time he has promised me he won't do something, he just does it again, or something more hurtful. H ackowledged that I had being trying really hard to work on our R, but since the night when we had been out with friends and I had greeted a friend in a certain way, but been disrespectful of him (see previous whining post from about 2 months ago!!!), he had stopped trying with me. Funnily enough, that's when I realised I had treated him badly, and started working harder.

So, where do we go from here? Yesterday, I took my wedding ring off. This is something I have never done, but I just felt battered.....again! Until H starts helping himself consistently, wanting to repair himself, wanting to move forward and doing the things he needs to to get there, I can't help him anymore. I do love H and care for him. Even his councillor said to me "It's obvious from your anxiety that in your own way you love your H". I told her that I had never stopped loving him - I told him that too, although when I was having the A, I had not loved him enough. H said that he does not know if he loves me anymore - his feelings are in such turmoil, that he really doesn't know.

H and I will continue to live together until the new year. H will be away for most of that time anyway. I think we will live apart from then. I do not want to make a decision in anger or when I am hurt and upset, but I cannot live as I have been. I have done a bad thing even a terrible thing, but I am not a bad person, and H is dragging me down with each argument, police episode, staying out, verbal abuse etc. Please don't misunderstand me, I know it was me who put him there, but we are damaging each other. We both know this.

If and when H moves out, I do not think it will be the end. But I truly believe that I cannot help him to repair himself - he needs time and space, and not seeing me to remind him all the time of his "failure". He needs to realise that he should not be ashamed, it is not his fault, he is a good person with many wonderful qualities. Whatever I do or say, does not help him, it damages him further, and me.

So there it is folks. I know some of you will say that I'm giving up too early, but it is nearly 5 months since d-day. I cannot continue to live like this. I still struggle daily with why I had the A, what made me do it, but I'm getting a bit better, beginning to forgive myself a little. I've learnt a lot from MB too, but surely you lot must be getting fed up as H and I lurch from one trauma to the next <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks again everyone for your words and support -you are all tremendous, and I value your insights.

Lisa

Lisa,

really sorry that I wasn't around - seems like it wasn't just me having a rough weekend (which I'll post about later).

It is funny though how sometimes it takes a momentous occasion / action for both sides to talk openly and honestly and without all the crap getting in the way. Your last post certainly makes it seem like you have managed to do this. And that - no matter what it took to get there or even the eventual outcome is - is a truly positive step I believe.

I have been reading back over your previous posts. Your story and your attitude have helped me understand a bit more about what my WW is feeling and the best way to approach things and also given me hope. So thank you and for my own selfish reasons please don't stop posting here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there

<strong>
So there it is folks. I know some of you will say that I'm giving up too early, but it is nearly 5 months since d-day. I cannot continue to live like this. I still struggle daily with why I had the A, what made me do it, but I'm getting a bit better, beginning to forgive myself a little. I've learnt a lot from MB too, but surely you lot must be getting fed up as H and I lurch from one trauma to the next
</strong>

understand that you're counting the time and that you want to move on. it looks like you're take on the situation is v. mature and that you can look after yourself. Only your WH looks really screwed at the moment - what was the story behind the failure of his first marriage by the way?
I'm still here & reveiving you 5 by 9 - keep these traumas coming! (but please dont complain if I keep on moaning on my thread.)

Lisa, I can't add much but just wanted to say....keep wearing your ring-you are still married. Don't get into the way of thinking that you are not,even though H will be away a lot. Also work on the openness and lines of communication that you and H have at the moment-I would love for my WH to be as open as that! And New Year is a long way away. It seems to me that if you make plans now to separate, you are giving in a bit. He is away so much anyway.JMHO!

Deluded of Devon
(but originally from Perth since you ask!)

Hi Nick & Bowd

Thank you both for your words. Bowd, I have learnt so much from being here, but still think I know nothing about anything anymore, so to hear I can be a little help to someone else makes me feel almost proud. But really, I've learnt from Nick, LIR, Just Learning, SS, Neil, Brit's Brat, Coffee Man and all the other fantastic people out there. When I first came here, I found it hard to post, but soon I realised that the more open you could be, the better the advice and the more you learnt. Let us know how you are doing.

Nick, I do feel mature. I have to say, that I slipped a couple of times over the weekend, and went into self-destruct mode - wanting to know more detail and whether there truly was anything in it, but I realised all I was doing was battering H. This really wasn't so much about what he did, but why he did it. Whilst only he is responsible for his actions, and I cannot be held to blame for everything he does now for the rest of his life, his realisation about OM, and that crushing feeling of failure and shame, drove him to behave in a way that was completely out of character. You know what, that behaving out of character thing? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I can't be too cross, and must check myself. H is really grateful for my insights and support I have given him. It's not fair to then bash him over the head with the rolling pin, because I get angry - still trying not to LB.

The thought of H and I living apart is very painful, but the thought of continuing to hurt each other (me unintentionally, well him too really), just isn't going to work. I still hope that he may consider MC, whether or not we are living together, and his attitude had shifted slightly on that at the weekend. I do think it is more important at the moment for him to deal individually with some of his anger and hurt.

LIR - as ever your words were spot on, yup, it was that "feeling good, a young girl fancies me" thing.

Deluded - thanks for looking in - it's good to know that there are people out there that care. Funny enough, just put the ring back on.... Yes, he is away a lot, and I guess I am still giving "us" some time. H & I did go to Perth, it's a beautiful city, and we had some lovely times driving down the coast of Western Australia - mind you Devon's quite lovely too!!

BB - Oh yes, I bet you know how it feels being married to your H!!!! Thanks for the hug.

Nikko/Rosebrook - thanks again just for being there.

Lisa

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>