Ws is in holding pattern... not changing much, not dating as far as I know... wants to stay married and live apart... with everything I have ever done wrong as the reason he cannot live with me.

Doesn't want a D, but does not want to live normally.... Cakeeater?

I am very tired, we are in counseling,... I am upset that counselor is sick today, so we miss the pre holiday session, and have one again next week.

Spent some time with him this wkend, and it was wedding anniv. and I did not get a real present.. but some time, and a bit of the same ole rude attitude.

I want my family, but he is acting unacceptably.

What to do?

Thanks, H

Honey - the perfect answer to your question is to do what you feel is best... You either must decide to live like this which is pretty much what you have decided or take another action. Only you have the answer - you can love him and want your marriage but you know that you cannot change him.. I believe anyone in this situation for so long is tired... even if they have come to a solution or not... Dealing with all of this stuff is hard.. It is so easy to try and hold your head up high and try to put it all behind you - but whether you have ended it or are still struggling it is emotionally draining... Most people say that everything gets better with time.. But only time will tell. I just really think you have to decide - Do you want to live married and apart??? Do you want to worry about lb'ing - Do you want to blamed for everything?? The choice is yours - God only gives everyone as much as they can handle and some people say god has a plan for us all - well it would be nice if he could tell us what page to start reading from... I know that you are hurt by your husbands actions and from my posts and other peoples posts here - but I don't think anyone me included means any harm - we just seeing you doing stuff and we get frustrated because we all probably at one time or the other have been in that situation from one time or another... It is all in your hands - only you can make the change....

Hi Honey,

Thought I would post and tell you that my friends have told me that I stuck in much longer and through much more than they ever would have. That being said, I will tell you that I was on the very, very edge of saying that I had had enough when FWH went into "the Program." He is treating me much better, but I will tell you that having a spouse in "the Program" is not easy. FWH goes to two meetings a night everyday but Friday and Saturday when he goes to three. He doesn't get home until gone 10:00 during the week and 11:30 or even later Fridays and Saturdays. My IC and our MC have both emphasized to me that "the Program" is VERY VERY selfish in that the person's recovery has to be their primary, almost all consuming, focus. FWH has very little time left for DS and me. IC and MC both tell me to give it time and the need to attend meetings with reduce - IC says 6 months, MC says 90 days. I cannot begin to fathom how you have tolerated the way Jim treats you and his being out of the house for over a year now. You are such a good person and you deserve so much better. Just a thought, but my IC charges $90 an hour and is really really good.

Regards,

Brit's Brat/BS-41
FWH-43
DS-13 months
Status: One Day At A Time

Honey,
You being tired is entirely reasonable, normal. You work on yourself, you take care of your kids, you try to do what is best for Jim. You aren't getting a lot back. Emptying, tiring.

I saw our former counselor (more of a friend basis now, after doing the weekly couples Bible study with him & his wife for a year) at a party and he was dreading the holidays, when his schedule fills to overflow and everyone has trouble, those in deep trouble seem to have more.

That probably doesn't help you. My H came home for the holidays & left 2 years running. The first year of recovery as the holidays approached & then ended I was nuts from triggers.

The holidays are hard when your life isn't as you wish it to be.

I'm sorry for your hurt, big hug to you.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.... Lor, Maw...

It is quite hard and worse with Tday approaching and Xmas and my single mom pocketbook and lifestyle is making me angry ...

So mad in fact today I went to the tx child support website and I filed an application... or started it.. I had no idea, but it looks as if the state will represent even a married couple living apart... so I will wait and see.. and wait for the wrath of J.. when he finds out - this could be the cooker, he might just hate me for life now... being somewhat fecicious... but really...

I am thinking, I wanted a h who would care about my welfare and our kids..? provide and care for me.. this man doesn't even think he has to pay 25% of his income and hides his income.. he can still hide is as he does self employment here and there... he is still getting some unemploy frmo his 100k job last yr. .. and when I think about it, I bet it is more than I think... also.. he is about to start doing some substititute teaching which will at least be reportable.. although not much money...

Anyway, I mgiht have committed the big lb! But the way i am having to work work work and not even a card for my anniversary.. though I did get a lunch and some used clothes! I a m tired of not meaning much to a man I have bent over backwards for.

Still plan a... but moving to a little agressiveness with child support.

Hugs and thanks for being here, HONEY

thanks to you BB- I am in counseling at first baptist now.. with ws, and me if he doesn't show... the counselor was sick today, last wk was the first appt, nxt is next monday.

I am also about to get insurance again- hopefully by January for me and the kids, halalujah!

Hugs and thanks, it has been way too hard, and getting to be 2long, if you know what I mean!

Honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>Ws ... wants to stay married and live apart... with everything I have ever done wrong as the reason he cannot live with me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, Honey,
I don't reply much to you, as I feel my advice to you comes across to you as too "angry" or "criticizing."

If so, stop reading now.

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry you're going through all this. I have no doubt it's exhausting and painful. HOWEVER:

RE-READ your own statements above....
You're luckier than most (myself included), as your H CONTINUES to tell you he "wants to stay m."

Honey, it may be true HE WANTS YOU TO CHANGE, but he's not willing (ready?) to change. BUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!

Several folks here have *criticized* (there's that word again) your behavior over and over, only to be met with major resistance and angry outbursts from YOU over "what do we know about your life, blah, blah...."

No, nobody DOES know about your life, except what you write here, but whatever you write is what people are trying to respond to, and help you fix. When I read that your H does NOT want a div. but wants to stay M, and wants YOU to change, I think to myself "WHY didn't I get a second chance like that?!??"

Honey, read your OWN sig line:
"Want to save my M, but be treated right"
I tend to think your H feels the same way! I think he often has felt through your M that YOU were manipulating it, and him, and HE wants to save the M, but HE wants to be treated right, too! Possible?

Plan A is about CHANGING YOU so that your WS can see the changes and feel that coming home is a safe place to come to.

Have you ever given him that safety? In all this time, have you changed enough that HE feels "safe" around you? I must answer for him. The answer is "No." He's told you over and over that that's how he feels. And what do you do? You come on this board and tell us all that "he'll never change...." Maybe he's just waiting to see changes from YOU first.

How do I know this is the "dance" you two are caught in:
Exhibit A:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spent some time with him this wkend, and it was wedding anniv. and I did not get a real present...

I want my family, but he is acting unacceptably.

What to do?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You get to spend time with him on your birthday and your anniv. and ALL you could mention is that YOU DIDN'T GET A REAL PRESENT?!?!?!?!? Girlfriend, do you have ANY IDEA what it's like to NOT KNOW where your H is for months at a time???? To NOT have seen him at all for TWO BIRTHDAYS and TWO W ANNIVERSARIES???? To have to live every day with the realization that HE WALKED OUT ONE DAY, never looked back, AND MAY NEVER CALL YOU AGAIN?!?!?!?!?!?!?

When I see statements like this one:
"He's acting irresponsibly???????????????" I hope you didn't tell him that....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> all I can think of is: Don't I wish my H were trying ANYTHING at all related to our R, NO MATTER how irresponsible........

I'd better quit now. I'm sorry. But I did warn you it wasn't going to be pleasant or kind.

But I feel it is truthful. I hope you can get past the flames of it, and see the truths buried in this post.

Sorry if you are offended.

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Lupolady... No probelm with your post... my ws and I once shared a 'once in a lifetime love'- I have made mistakes, so has he... and he actually more... in my humble opinion.. but I dare not say that to him anymore....

I am glad I have a chance to save this M... lupolady- and I do know how it feels to have someone walk and refuse to try, period... My first h did, but it was only 10 mnths and it was good that that M ended, frankly it was a mistake.

I really feel my ws and I were meant to be.. and I think he does too.. we are a beautiful family with beautiful children and great potential, period.

But what you may be missing in my post where I mention irresponsible.. is that a man who is capable of making 100k o r at least 1/2 that.. now has lived on unemploy for a yr and is going to sub. teach at around 6 an hour, maybe 8? A man with 2 children who comes from a well off family, and where noone has been poor ... or even low income... he comes from a line of succesfful men-

Yet, he chooses to DRINK alcoholicly and do drugs, etc. And only pays around 100 a mo. to support his kids.. figuring that HONEY will and can do it, so why bother?

I am glad I have the chance Lupo, I just think I deserve better... I have reacted to alcoholism and forced this man to be responsible for yrs... so why wouldn't he hate me... I 've become a parent, when I used to be party girl... parent to him that is... because I am the MOM and I want my kids to luive a normal fruitful life...

He would rather collect unemploy. than work, and blames the no job thing on the economy... I don't have a choice, I work.

Anyway.... he is like a deadhead who just wants to have fun??? Make sense. ? I can't help but love him, but me and my kids need a husband and a father... it's hard being the only adult around.

Hugs to you LUpo.... My h would frankly be crazy not to come back to me, it will be HIS LOSS... I have changed, and I am not so full of my ideas and my righteousness..

I know where I acted wrong and where I have and need to change even more.. but DUMPING, and I mean DUMPING the bills, the house, the kids on me... is not what I would call a grown up thing to do.

Yes, I still lvoe the man. But I do need someone accountable for HIS actions in my life.

Hugs to you, H

honey girl you seem to be all about material things. if my hubby would have wanted to try to make our marriage work i wouldn't have cared if he pumped gas and had us living in a tent untill things got better. life ain't about how much money you have or what you own or where you work girl. didn't someone sing that money can't buy you love?
is your hubby really an alcoholic or do you just seem him that way `cause it's easier then accepting that you pushed him away with your needs for THINGS? sorry girl but that's how i read you time and time again.
i hope the good Lord blesses you with the wisdom to see what you have before it's too late.

Honey,

I understand that you are frustrated with his unwillingness to earn a rightful living, since he has the ability. Obviously, the alcoholic dynamic is adding another level of complications to your m. And it HAS to be tiring.

It makes me wonder, though, if "Honey will take over and handle it, she always has..." in his mind is making him back way off, and not try? Just thinking out loud, I really don't know why he's become so irresponsible (if this was not a normal behavior pattern before).

As I said, I'm sure the alcoholism is the major problem here, but as others have pointed out, until he is ready to deal with that issue, I think all the rest will continue to be clouded....

I think him knowing that you will always pick up the slack for him, and MAKE him act responsible is what is driving these actions of his (staying away, blaming YOU for all of it). etc.

Well, it IS his choice, and his undoing in the process. I admire the "line in the sand" so to speak, that you have drawn. Stay strong and continue to grow and change. It can only help you and your boys in the long run.

As you said, if H chooses NOT to join for the long haul, it's HIS loss! (BTW, I feel my H is headed for a "crash and burn" as well!)

God Bless,

I have lived in a tent. My kids like a house better....

thanks, gotta go to alanon... I have bent over backwards... I am not kidding I went to law school while living in a tent and trying to save up for an apartment, even when ws's father loaned / gave us around 1800 dollars, around 1000 mystericously disappeared and me and my ws and our 5 yr old son rented a bedroom, one bedroom in a ladies house that is after camping at a koa, living in motels and hostels and camping in a tent for at least 2 mnts.. the tent part,,,around 6 mnths homeless- the rest was in the motel and hostels.. granted it was san fran, and expensive and ahrd to get a place----

I deserve a nice life and want one... tried of ws being drunk and not living up to his potential for me or the kids... or for the most part for himself.

I do like materialistic comfort,,,... especially if you are smart enough and able to make the money, ws IS... but refuses... due to alcoholism....

Thanks for the comments..> i know I want a good life for my kids and me.... I don't want to raise them in a tent. I have tried it just so you know. No offense... I always felt that way about my h... that money did not matter... no diamonds.. I am just a gold band girl, as long as I had his love... but right now I have come and go LOVE, and NO finanical support for my children..

Is it wrong to want a smart capoable man to provide and work hard for his family?

Thanks, H

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

nothing wrong with wanting good things for your kids and nothing wrong with wanting a nice life. what's wrong is expecting it and thinking your hubby owes it to you.
why don't you cash in on your law degree and file some support papers and get what your kids do deserve which is financial support and that is by the way all that man owes anyone.
life ain't always fair but your life is what you make of it. look at all the good ppl here who had their ws walk away and divorce them and they walk with their head held high still 'cause they kept their dignity. take a lesson from wat or faith1 or resilient or lots of others. life is what you make it and right now your making 2 little boys think it's a-okay to be walked on and bad mouthed and begging for versace instead of expecting respect. i'm done. i know i'm probably just making you mad and all i'm trying to do is wake you up.

I'm butting in here and I don't know the whole story...there seems to be more that just this thread but I would like to say that my H is a recovering alcoholic now but for many years he wasn't. I would just like to say Honey that I understand what it's like to live with an active alcoholic...and it ain't easy.
Something that came to mind as I was reading this thread was something I read as my recovery began. A woman was really fighting with having to change to save her marriage and she asked "Why Me?". The reply? Because the first one to change is the first one FREE! And it is freedom to change and let the old garbage go. And don't change for anybody else, change for you!
Keep your chin up!

Honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it wrong to want a smart capable man to provide and work hard for his family?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it's not wrong or even unreasonable to expect that, but get real!!! Look what you have to work with! An unadmitted alcoholic.

It IS unreasonable to expect that of a drunk and an alcoholic. Their #1 concern is themselves. Their addiction will not allow them to be concerned with anything else but themselves.

Your #1 concern seems to be yourself also...and what you want (that would be WS) regardless of what is best for your two wonderful children.

You even went so far as to celebrate your wedding anniversary by going someplace with the WS that would include DRINKING...or so you suggested.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we are going to hear a band or something which will mean some drinking probably... but oh well... tonight no lb's....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you willing to drink with this man and contribute to his alcoholism just to get him back...even at the expense of your children?!? Are you so afraid of LBing that you would sacrifice the well being of your children by continuing to expose them to an alcoholic father? Hell....every swig he takes from that bottle is a Love Buster! Get a fricken CLUE!

Go ahead and file for CS. You won't get a penny from an unemployed alcholic. Then what? Are you going to put him in jail for delinquency?

Get a clue!

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

P.S. It's a shame your previous thread got lost on page two already. There was some useful information on that thread for the readers here. But again, you are quick to start a new thread when the previous one is not to your liking any longer.

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Hey, hey, hey - hold up one minute! Did I miss something in one of your posts - you're about to get insurance??? Is that because you have a new job?????? Do tell! Don't hold out on us!!!

Are you going to the First Baptist down on Voss/Woodway???? Excellent place! I am Catholic, but VERY impressed with that community! Even if Jim doesn't go, can you go?

I am proud of you that you are starting to look out for you and boys - filing for child support was a very brave, very wise thing to do. Good for you!!!

If I got a sitter some Friday or Saturday night, could you??? Maybe we could have a girls night out? Ask Kay to join us? And any of you other Houston MB'ers???

Brit's Brat/BS-41
FWH-43
DS-13 months
Status: One Day At A Time

BB- thanks for the reply! Same job.. still, but the co. is going to pay for insurance since there is a hiring freeze, and it is kind of unfair..... anyway.... got lucky on that one.. hopeing to have another interview soon...

Would love another mb get together and k and I are near here.. there is a place on 1960 we like for mexican.... I can ck with k.. let me know, if you find other mbers too, start a thread... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Don't know how I catch all the criticism so harshly... maybe not? from others...

Anyway, NO I am not willing to take anything from ws... and btw we didn't go to a bar... I CANT make him stop drinking and If I refuse to deal with him if he is drinking, then really truth is... I have closed the door. Yes, there are boundaries, and things I will not permit in my life... so , ws may not be let back in.. we don't live together....

I cant make him stop drinking, and at times, he has been a very functional nonabusive alcoholic... alcoholism is a progressive disease.. so I doubt he will retun to this stage, but it is possible for him to be more functional, and that the a and everything else is taking him to a LOW... NO, I' m nost letting that into my kids lives.. but unless I totally tear our family apart and prove him an unfit to see his kids dad... he is seeing them on everyother wkend... for now.. which isn't the greatest idea... seeing that sometimes he does drink when they are there... yes, I am trying to document everything I can.. if IF I have to one day prove he is an unfit dad... I hope not... but it is possible.

One day he is smart, fine and on track.. next drunk and nuts... ALCOHLISM is quite cunning and baffling.

Anyway, NO I don't want my kids or me living like he does and won't accept it... but I CANT make him stop... I do feel it is possible he may not give up the drinking.. IF he changed some of his ways... I feel some drinking could be lived with, but I guess we are in a catch 22????

Hard decision, that is why i have alanon.. which is for people who have decided to stay true or not to their marriage s regardless of the drinking being active or not... sometimes you can live through the disease to see recovery and that is what I am hoping and praying for.

We stayed home and ordered pizza, was ws drinking? Yes... was I, No.

Hugs and thanks, HONEY

Honey,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he has been a very functional nonabusive alcoholic... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone needs to tell me just what the heck is a "functional alcoholic"!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One day he is smart, fine and on track.. next drunk and nuts... ALCOHLISM is quite cunning and baffling.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Put your two boys in the back seat of his car, strap them in and then tell them..."Not to worry now...Daddy is a "functional" alcoholic. You'll be just fine."

Get real! He can not hold a job nor keep an apartment. He has strayed from the marriage. How is he functional other than getting up every day and finding what is most important to him? (his alcohol)

Just what do you consider "functional"?

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ba109 said:

"Someone needs to tell me just what the heck is a "functional alcoholic"!"

OK ba109, I guess I was a 'functioning alcoholic'. The way this has been described to me is that this person holds down a good job (a career), does not have trouble with the law, may not be the perfect parent but does pretty good in helping to raise the kids, and as a spouse...this person has moments of clarity that show love, respect, and compassion to thier mate. In a nutshell, this is a functioning drunk.

I think Honey is saying that at one point she had this. Not a perfect M, but one that showed promise. Certainly more so than now.

As far as the material things, well so few young people know what it is like to do without material things today. Honey is not one of them. IMHO, Honey biggest flaw is....she loves her H so much that she has a harder time letting go of him. The other issues people critisize Honey for all stem from this one thing...her letting go of Jim.

Well, guess what. It's happening. You can see it in the attitude of her words. The time for Jim's NATURAL consequences is near. Honey? Did you catch that? Your actions (child support, distancing, etc.) are NATURAL. They are not meant as daggers thrown at Jim. Some people here want you to move in that direction faster. I admit, I do too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . But, we do not control that. You are the captain if your ship! You get to determine where it goes, how fast it gets there, and who gets to be on board...

Be strong, be consistant, make and keep your boundries.

Gib

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Gibby1 ]</small>

Thanks for understanding Gibby. I do love my husband more than most normal people love anyone... and I do let him walk on me, in order not to make him mad. I am scared about filing for child support.. but I know this is the one area where I think something has to be done and it is not fair to shirk responsibilities.

I didn't know I could file for child support without filing for D in TX- and just found out yesterday that it is a possibility through a tx child support agency. At least the website where I filled out the online app. sd that it is.

My ws is very sensitive to anything I do against him... and his alcohlism helps him be that way. It is easy to blame others and considering he has been abandoned by his mom and more sad stuff... I won't go into... I don't want to be mean and shut him out.... I think his wounds inside are very deep and that alcoholism is his answer for it.

For a while I was very mean to him and would take nothing as far as the drinking... the man had to drink in the garage or backyard... I would not allow it in the house... OK? I would not talk to him while he drank... or when I could tell... he was... no sf if he had been drinking- I made him go back to school, and on and on. I was on a shape up or ship out crusade, and he did improve...

The bad thing is that by the time I got there ... I had so much anger for other things ws had done to me that I did all this with meanness and demanding in my heart.. sure I loved him, but with disdain and a better than attitude... that is not truly me... I was reverting to desperation and anger was driving me to FIX him.
I want to make up for this.... and show him I won't treat him like this anymore.

Ba....

About your comment aobut my strapping the kids in the car with an alcholic- I surely doubt you have loved an alcoholic. My h is a good father, he loves our kids. He walks and takes cabs mostly if he knows he is drinking.... I won't say he doesn't drink and drive... and I would love a breathalizer installed on his car.. but he hasn't gotten the dui to have that ordered....

I am going to argue with you about the kids and their safety, it is foremost in importance to me. My kids love their dad... he has fallen downhill since this time last yr and I am sure guilt it part of the factor... and thus, blame for me to lift it. Right.

I don't want to play mean or hurt him in any way. Do I want a sober man to spend my life with, preferably the one I fell in love with 18 yrs + ago... YES!!!! Of course I still love him, he is and has been my best friend for yrs...

Is he sick now, yes.

Anyway it is very very hard....

My ws will surely be angry at any move I make to protect us from his drinking consequences... but I have to... Am I afraid my moves will be grounds for more anger against me? YES.

Thanks for being here.

H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Gib,

Well said.

How to say this??? To all posters to Honey. Please be careful/thoughtful when giving advice regarding alcholism. I think everyone means well, but may be misguided. Unless you are a successfully recovering alcholic or a successful Alanon participant who has direct experience/knowledge with the disease of alcohoism you may not have the best advice. I've read some things in this thread that make me cringe because they are common misconceptions.

Simply put - "unless you've walked the walk, don't talk the talk". Think about it.

CSue