I have been thinking a lot lately about all that has been happening. In a nut shell, WH and I are basically e-mail buddies. He seems perfectly content to write back and forth small pleasentries, news of the kids, complaints (from him) about money, work, etc. He seems peachy-keen with the idea that I am moving on with my life. He NEVER brings up OW or their R. I don't even know if they are 'together' anymore. He never calls (except to talk to kids) He is major stressed by work, lawsuit, missing the kids (his words), but NEVER, NEVER, not once does he ever mention ANYTHING about us. He talks about feeling like he is going to throw up every morning because of all the stress etc. Says he has felt this way for awhile. But apparently the thought has never occurred to him that he might be happier back with me. I guess he is happier being miserable alone than he was with me.

SOOOOO....
What do you think??? Should I just give up. I am 'moving forward' but I still have that little hope and thought buried deep inside that says "don't give up" But it is dragging me down. I don't want to be H's e-mail buddy and complaint dept. If thats all he wants me for I don't want to do it. I know it is selfish but I guess I want some return on my investment. Oh, he is nice enough but supporting his 'habit' is draining me. Isn't this why he need OW? Why doesn't he complain and talk to her about all his cr@p? IF (and that' a BIG "if") they are together I resent her getting the best of him and me listening to his stuff and comiserating with his plight and stroking his ego so she doesn't have to. She is the only person not losing ANYTHING here. I resent that too.

Anyway thanks for letting me vent. I would really like to hear what you all think.

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: footballwidow ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by footballwidow:
<strong>........I don't want to be H's e-mail buddy and complaint dept. If thats all he wants me for I don't want to do it. I know it is selfish but I guess I want some return on my investment. Oh, he is nice enough but supporting his 'habit' is draining me. Isn't this why he need OW? Why doesn't he complain and talk to her about all his cr@p? IF (and that' a BIG "if") they are together I resent her getting the best of him and me listening to his stuff and comiserating with his plight and stroking his ego so she doesn't have to. She is the only person not losing ANYTHING here. I resent that too. ..............
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok Sharon, I hear you and understand. Completely...... when I got to that point, I wanted the OW to meet 'ALL' his needs. The whole enchilada. Wanted to push their faces together and wire their teeth..... hm... lots of anger? Yes I was plain tired of meeting the needs that left me worn out and used. Like a old dish rag. So I told him to take his needs and go to the OW, then give me what he owed me and the D. ARrrgggh......sent him running backwards..... kept coming back....... arrgh.... but each time it was with greater commitment because my stakes (boundaries and requirements kept going up....not down, up).

Can you do that? But you have to be ready for the consquences. I was. Hm...... Let us know what you think.

take care,
L.

footballwidow ,

I don't know your story but from what I have read, I don't think you should be thinking of "giving up".

I agree somewhat to what "Orchid" said.
And yet on the other side it depnds. How do you communicate with one another. Is your talking easy-going and on a "happy" level or is it "heavy" and does it rather seem unpleasant.

I understand that this must be terrible for you to have to listen to your H complaining but do you feel that he enjoys talking to you???

I'm asking this because when someone talks and complains, he usually is expecting some kind of response. If he is getting the response that is making him feel "somewhat good" he will keep this up and it will make him feel good. And if he feels good, you will definately be fullfilling some kind of need that he is craving for.

I hope I am not off track in your situation.

If you are able to indentifie what you think, he is getting from you when he talks, I would say try to keep up with it for awhile.
Give it to him the best you can. Sound happy and understanding. Give him NO reason to feel sad after talking with you. Encourage him and give him something to smile after talking with you.
I know this is hard and I know that it "sucks" like $ell but this is what I would do.

Give yourself a time limit and avoid any LB at all. (maybe 30 days)
When he tells you that he feels bad, ask him if you can do anything to help him? Let him know that you worry about him. Don't exagerate, just tell him this softly.
Don't talk about yourself and try to be the best listener you can imagine.

When your time limit is over you might decide to go into "NO CONTACT".
This will for sure get him thinking and this is what you want to do. You want to get him thinking. You want him "puzzled". He will then have to make the next step to see "what's up".
Since you have given your best and implanted "positive" images of yourself for the last 30 days, it will get him wondering and for sure questioning.

Since he has gotten used to "unloading" his problems onto you, he's going to miss this.
Since you have made all conversations positive, he's going to get a dip of reality when you are just not available anymore.

Then I would say, I agree totally with "Orchid". Then he will have to take full responsibility for his actions and deal with all of his §rap with OW. (if she is there or not)

Just make sure not to LB. Don't give him any reason to make him think negetively of you. Sound positive and caring.

I hope this might help you abit and I hope I'm not off track with your situation.

take care
bb

hi ute....i agree with the advice blondeblossom gave, dont give up quite yet. Sounds to me he knows yu care about him and his problems, and he doest have that with the OW obviously. I would think about BB's advice.....god bless and take care...A/C0810

thanks everyone.

Orchid, thanks. How are you doing? Been thinking about you. I agree I would like to give OW the whole enchilada. It would give her a case of "Montezuma's Revenge" I'm sure. The problem is I don't think she is around. Just the way H talks and things he says. If she isn't it means he doesn't want ME. I am trying to sort this out.

BB, Yes I think I am meeting an EN for H. I do think he would miss not having me to talk to. These stupid e-mails are my only hope. But it seems like I am holding on to nothing. If OW is out of the picture?? I am sure he NEEDS someone. Problem is I NEED someone too. I want something not so one-sided.

As far as being nice and supportive and trying to make him smile. I am doing my best. The only time he gets angry is with my Lawyer and D stuff. But except for one angry e-mail lapse, I have done pretty well. It's funny that one e-mail was the perfect excuse for HIM to cut off contact, but we are back to buddy-pals. I am trying to do my best. Because I love him, mostly. Not to get him back. As I told my therapist once, unconditional love is hard unless you're a dog. He thinks he is depressed by holidays coming, not seeing the kids, business problems. Doesn't it ever cross his mind that maybe he misses ME!!! It crosses my mind, I MISS HIM. I guess I just need to hang in for a while.

A/C, How are you? I am glad to read you are in recovery. I'm jealous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> GOod luck. I am so happy for you.
I don't think he is getting much emotional support if any from OW. The way he has talked about her she seems like a 'business like' person. I don't know. But I am sure he doesn't want to be telling "love of his life" all the cr@p he is telling me.

I don't get any feeling from his e-mails though. You know what I mean, nothing to read between the lines. Except I think he is miserable right now. I guess that is what hurts the most I think he is miserable, I don't think OW is around and he STILL doesn't want me!!! Maybe it is OVER!!
That's my whole reasoning around giving up. I am so confused. I just want to get off this D@mn roller-coaster and get on with my life. Why do I still love this man????? He has thrown me nothing but crumbs for almost a year. May will be D-Day He moved out Jan 8. UGH!!!! Why do our hearts want what our heads say no to? Guess it is the same for the WS.

Thanks everyone. I have some thinking. WH is out of the loop for Thanksgiving, he has to travel. So NC till Monday. He will call Thanksgiving to talk to the kids. I would give anything if he would ask to talk to me. I think I am going to go to NC unless he instigates.

Happy Turkey Day!!!

Sharon

Have you sent him this one yet?

Dear H,
I got to thinking, we could still stop the D and get back together. I can't see any reason why we shouldn't try. Do you think it's time?

I always figured that once you are to the point of giving up hope, it doesn't hurt to try things.

SS

<small>[ November 27, 2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi Sharon,
Since you have very little contact with your H, I think my advice would be to continue on this way for now.

But...one concern is your phrase that this is "draining" you. If the divorce continues, that's probably a good thing, eventually you won't feel so strongly about him and you will be ready to move on. However, if at some point he does want to reconcile with you...if you are drained, you may no longer want to reconcile.

I know I'd be tempted when he says how miserable he is to point out he is miserable because of the choices he has made. Said factually, with sympathy, it wouldn't necessarily be a love buster.

Hi Sharon,

I am ok...thanks for asking. Now as for your sitch.... well the way I would view it is that it doesn't matter whether there is an OP in the pix or not. If he is not being a proper H, then he needs to have all his needs and he can choose who will fill it but you can choose not to.

I did that..... I was told there was no OW (but there was), I gave him his needs and told him to go be a 'man' and make him each his words about taking care of himself. You see now all those babble excuses about 'finding themselves out there', 'not being controlled', 'no ultimatums',
'need to have their own space', etc.... all that is being played back when you give them their needs ..... inessence a real plan B. Also takes the load of stress of the BS.

JMHO,

L.

Thanks guys,

I will write later, I gotta go back to work on my second job. I am pretty low today so it was good to come home and see that you all cared. Thanks.

Sharon

HI Sharon,
I am thinking of you, too. Please don't give up. I would simply say to continue being supportive, and that in time your husband may very well 'come around'. At least you talk. My exH never wanted to talk to me at all, well, very few times during the separation phase.

Don't give up. It's far too early for that!!

Take care,
H_P

Thanks everyone,

I am truly grateful I found all my friends at MB. I look back and can see that finding this place was a turning point in my getting better and stronger. I do believe that I am better and stronger. This is just a tough time right now. The realization that possibly my H doesn't want me even if there is no OW is hitting me pretty hard. I just can't believe he would give up everything we had together. I guess it wasn't as important to him as it was to me. Maybe he needs something else in his life to make him happy.

I was talking to my boss about work last night and he was talking about wanting to make some target goals, but that you couldn't have everything. I said "sure you can". I said "but sometimes you have it all and you don't realize it till it is gone" He replied "tell me about it" I said "did you have it all?" Him: "yeah but I didn't know it and it sucks."

I would hate to think that someday my H might come to this realization. In my view he did have it all. We had everything we could to make someone happy. WHAT WAS WRONG?? I guess just ME!!!
He had a good job, beautiful kids, but he was desperately unhappy. It is so sad. I am so sad I could not make him happy. I know you can't make another person happy, it comes from inside. But what a kick in the stomach to know he would rather be off, ALONE, miserable, lonely, than be with you. Makes me feel like SH**.

Ugh, what a downer. Sorry everyone. This too shall pass.

Take care and God Bless you all.

Sharon

Hi Ute... I agree , dont give up, he is still talking to you and it sounds like you are both very cival to one another. I know you are tired of it being so one sided. Sorry, i just dont know what else to say, just i am thinking about you, and praying for you sweetie...A/C0810

Hi Sharon,

I would say at this point, the best thing you can do is to simply alter the focus in your life. You can still hold a place for your "H" in your life, but no matter how much you want for him to return it will not happen unless he has an internal shift inside of himself. LET GO of the painful URGE to "FIX" this. Trust that GOD has a plan for both you and your H.

Instead of thinking about how he has rejected you, start thinking about what you can do to make yourself feel happy again. You DON'T need him in order to be complete. He WILL come around at some point. It will only happen when HE is ready to deal with his issues.

I am actually in the situation that you fear so much. I have decided to turn around and try to come home, and HE has MOVED on. As much as I HATE that we have lost the opportunity to grow closer, and heal things, I am sincerely hoping that HE finds HAPPINESS. If this happens between you and your H, it's his elephant to eat.

Would you rather be miserable in trying to fix a problem that he isn't ready to see? Or Would you rather find happiness and feel the thrill of knowing that the person that you are sharing your life with REALLY wants to be a part of it?

Stay in his life, but start living your own without expecting him to be there. You will be suprised at the change this will bring.

Hi Sharon,
My H's PA was over in 10/99. We separated twice after that, so I do know the feeling of "she's not the problem, I am".

My H used some of the time until our reconciliation in 5/00 to pull himself together, to figure out what it was he really wanted. Some of that time he thought he wanted a divorce, but, in the end, a divorce was not what he wanted.

It would be good if your H was doing that kind of self-examination...but it isn't something you can either make him do, or even overly encourage.

But, if your H is miserble, maybe he will take a look at the reasons why.

Hi Sharon-

Isn't this e-mail buddy thing a change? I thought that your H had kind of cut off e-mail contact and wasn't communicating with you much at all? Or am I remembering things wrong? So this seems good and new....

Re the OW. Perhaps you could bring her up in a neutral way? For example, if he mentions something he's confused about, you could say, Hmmm, I don't know. What does OW think about that?
Or if he's having some kind of difficulty, you could say, Couldn't OW be helpful with that? She is so good with business.

You can also reminisce a bit in your e-mails. Write about what you're doing for Christmas. Plan do some special stuff with your kids. Something different and unusual. Maybe volunteer at a soup kitchen, bake Christmas cookies, or have your kids write poems about Christmas. E-mail some photos to him of the kids doing holiday stuff. Crack some funny jokes, refer back to stuff he did in Christmases past. "Remember the time when you...?" When he complains about stuff, maybe you can mention alternate choices. If he complains about missing the kids, You could say, "Yes, I understand. It would tear me up to live so far from the kids. I simply wouldn't have the strength to deal with it." or say, "Yes, the kids miss you too. They need their dad. Thanks for keeping in touch with them." You could ask "Hmm, any possibility of moving closer to the kids?"

Again, ask him questions. The kids want to know what to get him for Christmas. Son's game went well, he's working on this skill. What do you think of the report card? Son acted up yesterday, should u take computer priveleges away? You're thinking of decorating the house with poinsettas and pine branches- what does he think? Did he see the football game on TV? etc etc etc As much of that as you can.

Sharon, this e-mail thing is really your only chance at Plan A, so keep it up for the moment. Your H moved out under false pretenses. He hasn't gone through the holidays without his family. He's deeply in the fog. Kill him with kindness, and reiterate the reality of his choices. The fact that he wants to be your e-mail buddy is good. Let him tell you of his troubles.

Re: the divorce. Say how you understand he needs to be free of you, so he can marry the love of his life, OW. Yes, it hurts you, since you thought the family you had together was special, but of course, a 25 year old gorgeous woman would be irresistable, and you will adjust eventually. You understand he needs to do this for his happiness, of course.

Set yourself a deadline, which can be based on the divorce. When does it go through? After the holidays, you might go a bit dark on him, don't respond so quickly to his e-mails. Write back things like "Sorry, I've been busy, doing X, Y and Z, but I now have a chance to write." Make sure you get out and about. Try some new things as best you can. Mention people you know casually, hopefully people he doesn't know, like your boss or a customer. (a few males), but don't mention dating, and if he brings it up, say, no I don't plan to date until we're divorced.

Be patient. Work on yourself. Let your lawyer handle the divorce stuff. You will survive, with or without H. You have grown so much, and gotten so strong. He is losing so much.

Everybody thanks sooo much!!!

Kily: Yes I know I need to re-focus. I have really been trying. The holidays I guess are pulling me back to the 'old'. I am so sorry about your situation. I can't imagine yet the time where I will have moved on so far as to not give my H another chance. But we have been together so long, and at my age it is scary out there. I can't believe all the guys I talk to that are my age are talking about dating younger women. YUCK. I guess I'll have to date 80 yr olds. I guess men my age are trying to "prove" something.

Your advice is of course wise. I can't fix this on my own. I know that. And I don't want someone who doesn't want me. I guess I am just kind of down on myself for some reason right now. It hurts.

I do want someone who loves and cherishes ME. I told my H as much. Silence. Right now he is not the man I thought he was. The man I knew wouldn't do this to me or the kids. I hope nothing I did made him so unhappy as to cause this.

Thanks for your advice. You hang in there. Take your own good advice. You also deserve someone who loves you.

Lor: good to hear from you. How are you?

H has never been one to 'self examine' I can see in a lot of ways why this happened. This had to happen in his life. He definitely NEEDED to make some choices. In a sense "P@@p or get off the pot" Maybe he will see things differently in time. I do see this as a turning point in his life in more ways than one. I hope he finds real happiness. If it is without me, I will deal.

Espoir: Thanks. Yes, this is kind of a new thing. He seems to need someone to talk to. But when I allude to that fact he seems to pull away. It is like he wants me not to know that perhaps he needs me. When this all began he said he was being very careful of everything he said and did as to not 'lead me on' or make me think there was hope. I think he is still in this mode.

Last time I brought up OW was when I mentioned that he was free, had a good job and OW. He replied that she had nothing to do with his decision and then went on his anti-religion rant. So I don't know what is up with them. That would have been the perfect time to say "she isn't even around so don't blame her" I get a feeling and I may be COMPLETELY WRONG, that she is stringing him along. Not committing to anything. This may be part of the reason he seems to be writing more. I don't think she is around, or at least not living with him. I think he is lonely but is getting "enough" from her to keep him hanging.

I will continue to do what you suggest. He really does miss the kids and they don't really write or communicate much with him. When he calls, early A.M. the girls won't even get up to talk to him.
I don't want them to lose each other. And I want to keep him in the 'loop' as far as the kids are concerned. I owe him that if nothing else.

I have however cut back to only e-mailing if he e-mails me. This seems to work, he writes more, and says more. Maybe it is a good sign but it is hard to. It gives me hope and like I said I don't want hope right now. It hurts too much. I had gotten to the point where I was accepting that he had moved on and was happy. I don't know. I guess I am scared. Afraid to hope again. SS mentioned maybe bringing up reconciliation again. It isn't time. I brought it up in August just after OW arrived and got it thrown in my face. I think it is too soon. I am afraid to bring it up again. I don't want him to think I am still pining away. But I am also afraid he might think it is "too late" and not mention it if he is thinking of it. That he might think he isn't being fair to me. I made him swear to me he would let me know if he ever thought he was making a mistake. I don't know if he will though. He can be such a dope sometimes.

Well everyone thanks. I feel better today I am dreading Xmas if Thanksgiving gets me so worked up.

Take care everyone.

Sharon

I am one of those fix-it guys. I try stuff, and if it doesn' work, ( I laugh hysterically haaaa haha hahahahahah haaaaa. ) and I try something else. I can see why you wouldn't want to try again now. I wish the pain would go away for you, but I suspect probably not this week.

If you want to make Christmas easier, don't communicate with him that week. I think it would help. I know you would have to some about the kids, but you don't have to answer his mail that week if it would help. Sometimes you have to put you first, not any plan.

Some days I am somewhat of a rebel, I hope I don't get flamed for this last one.

SS

<small>[ November 29, 2002, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS,

I can see the reasoning around not communicating Xmas week. You are right the communication does make it harder to take. I will have to see how I feel. He will not be able to come to our town for Xmas so I don't know how the holidays will affect either of us. He might be on a real downer.

I am a fixer too. But I have tried all the fixits I know on this one. It hasn't worked. I will definitely throw out the reconciliation ? when the D is close to final, by then what the heck will it matter. Don't worry about being flamed. I have some asbestos long johns you can borrow. I have been through HE!! and back in them and haven't got burned yet!!

Put lil' ole me first??? What a novel idea. I'll have to try it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks,
Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you, and your situation. I know how hard it is, especially at this time of year. I think it's hard all of the time, myself!

My 2 cents is to simply do what feels right in your heart. If you feel like writing, write. If you don't, don't. That is my way of handling things, maybe it isn't the best way.

I NEVER hear back from my exH, so at least your H does answer you , and he initiates emails, too.

Take care,

H_P

Thanks H_P,

Looks like we posted at the same time. I am grateful that I have some communication with my H but it makes it hard too. It keeps the LB$ open and sometimes I wish it would shut down.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness towards me and I hope you know I feel the same towards you. I wish all the best for you. If the holidays get you down know that we are thinking of you and praying for you.

Sharon