I hope I am in the right place I have been in a relationship with a wondrful woman for 3 years. Its had its ups and downs. But I lover her very much.
over the lst 2 months things have gone down hill. until the 18th of this month then hit bottom . I got a reply from an email message I sent her and it said she doesnt want to be with me anymore, Then the next 2 nights I spent at her house and thought we had gotten thing headed back in the right direction. Then Monday of this week I Thought I would surprise her and take her some flowers and a card. Well I showed up at her house and the was her coworker there. I knoced on the door and left the flowers and left befor seeing her. Then I turned around and went back to confront her and him .. she had gotten the flowers but when I returned in 5 min she woulndt answer the door. and they both hid in her bedroom. Well I was devestaed and left without talkig to her. I did call but just got yelled at and hung up on.... Weell I didnt sleep a min Monday night and started putting the pieces together. She had confronted me about 2 months ago and said a coworker that lives in the town I do had told her that they had seen a woman at my house several times ariving at 10 pm and leaving at 3am.. I was shocked I never had even the thaough of being unfathfull snd told her that was a outright lie. She responded what would this person make that up etc.
Well the coworker that was at her house monday night just happens top be the same one that lives in in the same town I do. ( Humm pices just fell into place for me. Well i sentbher an E mail that night and told her I was hurt and etc. aloge with some nasty words and pointing out to her the same that i just did her. That this person lied to her to get into her pants.
Well we talked on the phone yesterday for the first time for a couple hours and I did explaine I loved her and still wanted the relationship to continue. We have been through so much and I really dont want to have wasted 3 years.. She explained she needed time to think and I tried to get some timeline out of her she said just giver her some time. So I told her I am going to see a councler and want her to join me at some point.

Her is my Message I sent her
Hi Kim
I want to thank you for our Chat today I hope You can understand and allow us our Chance or "Charm" .
We have been through allot together. Very Good Times, Heartbreaking as well as everything in between. My Love for you runs very very Deep, as I told you I have never felt this way about anyone or for anyone!!!!!. I know I have made mistakes and for that I am truly sorry I never intended to hurt you. My love and Commitment was always there.
I know I would make you a wonderful husband, partner, soul mate and you would make a wonderful wife also.
I am aware that I can no more force you to stay today, than I could have made you go out on our first date, Sept 14th 1999 or fall in love with me (I remember the Date you came over and we rented 3 movies and talked all the way through them the times were we were up every night talking until 3 or 4 in the morning) I didn’t pressure you then so I won't now. I will let you go .If you never call me again I will accept your decision. This experience has been very painful but I will make it,
I know If we are ment to be together It will happen, A partnership and Marriage takes work, If we both give it a chance I know it can and will work!!!!!. If we Focused on us as a couple and not what others say or what thay think we would have it all. I will say this again we have had some Wonderful times together and can and would have many many more again.
I can say this with an open heart... YOU HAVE BEEN MY FIRST TRUE LOVE!! And That was and is a scary feeling for me. I will never forget the memories that we shared, I will pray for you and trust God will guide you through the years ahead.

Love

Jim

Any advice would be wonderful

Jim,
I know you probably don't want to hear what I have to say, but I am going to throw it out there anyway.

Dating is a testing period somewhat like a job interview. You are getting to know the other party to see if they have attributes that would make them marriage material. It is a fact that problems in this dating period will become even GREATER problems in a marriage. Knowledge of these problems should be used as a warning to tell you the test has FAILED and that marriage is not a viable option.

Often people ignore these problems to their great detriment and instead of a temporary broken heart in a dating situation, end up destroyed in a marriage with all the subsequent fall out such as divorce, child support, emotionally destroyed children, etc. If only they had heeded the many warnings they saw while dating!

It is my opinion that you have been lucky in your situation that have been given a very clear message that she is NOT marriage material. She is having an affair. She is deceitful. *THAT* is not marriage material, Jim. If you want to marry someone who predisposed to have affairs, then you have your perfect mate. If not, I would run as fast as you can and consider yourself lucky that you cut your losses early in the game.

Do you want to be dealing with this when you own a house, assets, and have children together?

<small>[ November 28, 2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Wow I just finished reading my post please forgive my bad typing skills and spelling

I broke down and sent the to her ... Now what???

Miss You.. "Charm"

I can't walk away or give up.. My gut and heart won't
allow me. Why is this happing to us... I go from
heartbroken hurt guilt to anger because You and I both
know that there was more to you and him before the
18th.. .. I dont know what I did or what need of yours
I didnt meet but I Do know we can get through this and
become closer and have a wonderful life together..
I can understand how you must be feeling also maybe
the same as me Guilt hurt confusion and that it would
be hard to see eachother. But I can't give up on you
or us. Dont be scared of putting this back together or
our future together. We can Make it and become a
stronger couple.

Lets do this together... no walls no minulipition no
dihonesty You and I heart to heart cheek to cheek..



Jim

jim

Sadly this probably isn't any better.

Luck for you you are not dealing with this after marriage & children & other financial things...

Don't look at it as wasting 3 years. Live & learn from it. You sound very inlove with her but you deserve better. (Somebody who loves you back)

Set her free. If you love something set it free. If it comes back it is yours to love. If it doesn't it never was.

I feel for you as it sound as though your heart is breaking. Don't let her break it any more. Be strong & move on. My best wishes are with you.

Thanks for your input, but i don't think I can give up on it. her and I have been through so many great times as well as a few bad. I have to stay the course

I Talked on the phone with her last night went pretty good. got into a mild argument.. I think I am just going to give up..

Dear Jimmah:

Please re-read Melody Lane's post above.

In fact, PRINT 2 copies, tape one to your bathroom mirror, keep the other one with you.

YOU CAN DO BETTER!!! Cut bait and move on!!!

I am really not sure what I can do, I have talked with her a couple times in the past 2 days, With no hope or interest from her in wanting to work through this.. I went to a councler yesterday and in giver her more detailed history of our relationship , she advised me to Run and not look back,, because of her destructive and volient behavior. Part of me wants to but a another part of me wants to work through this and loves her but I wont put my life on hold for her.

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

Thanks everyone for your support. I Went to see a counselor againwith a bit more info and wow did I learn some things about myself and our relationship, We didn’t spend much time talking on or about the relationship at my appointment it was more focused about me. I was asked and recommended to buy a few books and all I can say is Wow. It was an Eye opener for me, I know now what type of mistakes we both made and how we each reacted to them. How we both didn't listen enough to each other express our need and wants. I could go On and on but for now I will keep it short. I am not going to give up but I also am not going to hang on to tight , I am going to give things time and work on myself, and hope we can start again. I do know this woman brought me to a point of love that I didn’t know was possible.
Then some of the things in my past started haunting me and I should have sat her down to talk about them openly and honesty when she brought them up. As well as her sharing the same with me. I think I felt if I was totally honest with somr of the Seemed either I or both were scared of Love and hurt or Judgments. I am sure it was very destructive to the relationship trust and each other. I wish I could turn the clocks back and start anew, but that is not how things work, I know that I can and will learn how to better communicate with honest drop dead truth about feelings issues wants needs history and future.
I do truly know that I love this woman like I never loved anyone. I am going to give her space and time.
I just can only hope and pray that somehow we keep in touch so she notices and maybe wants to try again at some point but I am going on without her I will not sit and wait for her, Maybe thats wrong but I am moving on.

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

Indy, I have been in a 3 year relationship with WSO, we made vows 3 years ago without the paper so as we lived as a married couple it was to be forever. Forever lasted until Oct.28/02 when he chose to have an affair and leave our real life for a fantasy. He used deception, lies, and withholding love from me for someone who is married and lying to her spouse. I read your posts and I know where you are coming from, it sounds like you 2 did not live together am I correct? I also know that you do not want to give up on what you have invested, but sometimes we have to for our own growth of what we know a relationship is really about. I'm glad you went to IC and found books and now have seen the "what you did", "what she did" to make all this come about. But you have to also consider this, while YOU might be having all this growth within yourself, it does not mean she will, nor even want to. I hope the best for you and I hope she wants to really delve deep within herself to grow with you, but NOTHIN you can do will or can force that within her. My WS has moved out and thinks he will get MOW to divorce her H and that they will ride off into the sunset with God's blessing, that's how far out in the "fog" he has gone and still exists this very day.He has thrown everything he once held precious and dear out like it never existed. I knew that the only thing I could do was work on me and go on because I have always known you can make life a "curse" or you can make it a blessing, my WS made it an albatross that hung around his neck and he wanted to ditch that for the fantasy of no responsibilities that resemble what love is really about. Kinda like a drug addict living on his initial high, til it wears off. I wish you well and I'm pulling for you. Let us know how it's working, we are here for you.

Thanks Neesha for your thoughts.
You are right we didn't live together and I think that might have been some our our problems. We both enjoyed each others company so much. and during our first 8 months together I was with her almost every night at her house. Then work and my house seemed to overwhelm me we got super busy and I would stop home before going to her house, I would get there sit on the couch and would be so tired and exhausted I would call her and disappoint her that I was to Tired to make the trip. I don't want to give you the impression that’s why we are not together but it seemed to build that insecurity in the love bond that I didn’t want to be with her..

I will also pray for you and wish you the best. Hopefully yours will come around and things will work out for you. I am a true believer because I have seen it with my friends and family. That if a couple can get past something like this and in time work things through the relationship they have is stronger than ever and the love is deeper and Greater than ever. I do know that I can't change what has happened or control whats happing, I cant minulipate her into wanting to be with me. I am going to work on myself and make positive changes, for myself that were issues in our relationship. I can say I do hope we somehow stay in touch, I don't know how to do that at this point and giver her the time she need and wants. I can't even say in time I won't meet someone else.
I do know myself well enough that I will go on I know it will take some time to even date again. But I have 2 children from a previous marriage and I will focus on them and I have a few wonderful friends that listen to me when I am down. I have also begun a new relationship with my Aunt and uncle and there children. that had been stressed over the last 4 years and its been wonderful renewing and spending time with them.

Just a folowup Questiuon for everone.. How do I keep in touch with her,, I don't think she would have the guts to call me, maybe because of guilt or shame or whatever... SO any thoughts would be helpful

Well, do not know if this is helpful. I told you my WS is being very hurtful and taking his time to move out, he is way wayyy "fogbourne" (he shoulda been a pilot!! Anyhoo, when he does grace his presence here I am polite but he is not, he is also taking his time and making excuses in moving out of our home very slowly and maliciously because he can not be with MOW full time so he likes the comforts of home. Well that has changed, and he now has made it impossible for him to play that game anymore since there are other family living here and he has involved everyone and destroyed alot of people on this side of family, do not know about MOW's yet. So, my advice, if you see her remain polite, but not overly, make it pleasant. If she is not contacting you Indy then I'm afraid to say this but it's because she does not want to and I really do not think you should take it personally, she has her head up there and I feel if and when she has brief moments of clarity, she'll reach out and contact you to make sure you are still there, I could be wrong but seeing as I am a woman, I would feel that she will have those moments to reach out to you to make sure her "safety net" (meaning you) is still there to catch her when she falls. Take this time Indy and make the most out of it by delving into YOU and not concentrating so much on her and when you say she does not have the "guts", oh I disagree very much, she's shown you that she had the guts to hurt you do what she has done and remain there for now. But sooner or later she will come to her senses as you have seen your friends go thru this and when she does and you have worked on yourself and any growth you feel you need , then she will come back to a "healthier, wiser, grown Indy. Just my thoughts though.

Thanks again Neesha

Your words and thoughts are very helpful. Without getting into details, (No unfaithfulness was involved. In this breakup) we had separated last year for about 3 or 4 months (my choice). I was very angry with her but I still loved her I just needed time to cool down from what she had done to me. Well she was very persistent and she did give me time, she would call on occasion just to chat, and say hello. Then we went back out again and I totally fell back in love with her.

But this time is different. I know she is and she knows I know about the OM. Now were do we go from here if the is any chance for us? I know she is very angry with me right now I said some mean things, Or if its because of me catching her in a lie, but she did say to me she didn’t lie because she broke up with me 4 days earlier and at that time she wasn't dating him so she says,

I did tell her I was sorry for what I said and was just angry and didn’t mean what I said. I don't know what to believe anymore .My heart and thoughts tell me to hold on but the fear of pain and waiting tells me to move on. I really don’t think she has the strength to face me...I can only imagine the guilt and shame people must feel when they do things like this. I know when I do something wrong the guilt I feel is tremendous and most of the mistakes when I do get that feeling the first thing I do is call the person and say I am sorry. But with this type I can only imagine what it would be like to have to live with that the rest of your life and if the new relationship goes anywhere. Can you ever trust yourself or the one you are with to be faithful without doubting yourself your partner? Or are you doomed to repeat yourself relationship after relationship? A lot of what I have been reading, Says that if both partners work at a relationship that has been through crises like this tend to come out stronger than ever.

So I am still not sure were to turn, I really don’t want to hold out any false hope but its very difficult and painful to carry it also.

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: Detaching but hopfull ]</small>

You know this may sound strange.. One of the couples we met 2 months before this started. They are going through some difficult times in there marrige and I have told the partner that wants out to stay strong and I just got an update from them that things seem to be turning around for them .. they said it was my turn I so hope it is.. if that ever happens I know it would be a long road but I believe it would be wort it.

I keep going back and forth; I think the best thing for both of us right now is for me to move on. I really don’t think or believe she could look me in the eye after this.. I was always accused of having an affair or interested in another person and nothing could be farther from the truth. Now here she is maybe not technically having an affair because we are not married but the way it came about is very strange. I gave her link to this website and hopefully she at least looks it over. There is so much Info here; I wish I would have found it much sooner

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

Well I have been doing alot of reading and a lot more reading, That seems to be all I have been doing, trying to learn as much as I can and put in into use. I know for myself I am in a sence going to give up. I am not going to sit and wallow in my sorrow, I am going to go on with my life as if it was trully over. Call it my way to protect myself, I will continue to love her but My heart can't take the pain and Guilt. I called her this moring and said hello and asked that she call me tonight, I have a few things of hers that I know she wants and I am also going to tell her I am sorry and ask forgiveness because of a couple lies I did tell her... That did become issues durning our relationship. I was reading the honesty section of Dr harlys book and if we do come out of this mess I need to come clean and ask forgiveness and stop letting pride get in the way of love..

Well I talked with her last night, She Returned my call after she got home from work, we chatted about 15 min, then she had a call come in she said she would call back and she did, but said she had to keep it short but would call back, then bigger surprise she did call back later that night. I asked her forgiveness and admitted to my lies and mistakes and told her I was sorry and that hurt her and lost her trust. I valaded every concern she had not just to say it but I really understood it!!!!!! and am deeply sorry. I told her that I did love her and that I was never unfaithful to her, that I was always committed to her and the relationship We chatted about her family etc. I told her I had found a few items and pictures that I thought she might want and told her I would mail them to her but she asked I hold onto them that she would meet me sometime to pick them up. I Now what do I do? Just wait?

Ok Trying to control of my excitement, and hope, but not sure what to make of this. I sent flowers yesterday and a stuffed bear to her work. I also called her last night and left a message just saying hello not thinking she would call back. Surprise surprise she called we chatted about her day and her new position at work some small stuff. Then she brought up out of the blue if I was Dating anyone, I said no, She asked why I didn’t call her last Friday, I said that you asked me to give you time so as much as I wanted to I didn’t call. She said well I thought you would be dating , I thought for a moment and asked her if she really wanted to know why I wasn’t She said yes. So Told her what I was feeling how much I loved her and that we have been through to much together to just walk away from this I said that I believed in her and that part of me knows she still loves me and I just wasn’t going to give up when I know I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. I told her I have been committed from the first time I said I loved you and wasn’t going to waver from that. I told her I am In this through Good times and Bad . and what my goal was, she brought up our trust Issue and again I took full reasonability for breaking our trust because of a couple lies I again was validating her feelings. She seemed more relaxed and asked me why I lied to her. I told her it doesn’t matter why I lied because it was just wrong of me, and then I explained why. She asked me what my goals were, I explained what my goals were hope's etc. For me and for the both of us to survive this, She then asked me how it felt to be lied to I said it was horrible etc. and I told her I understood why she lied etc. Well we talked a lot about trust honesty etc. How this was a wake up call to me and that I wasn’t ready to walk away from this, asked her forgiveness again. Told her how my counseling sessions were going. She seemed interested and excited at times but then would try and pull me into an argument with her but I would diffuse it by validating her feelings again. I told her we could make it through this stronger happier etc. that it would take time and I was making the necessary changes in me for the future. Again goals and hopes, She said that she wasn’t the yet. I said I understand but hopefully you will allow us the chance, again she said right now she wasn’t there yet. I know she is confused and I know she need a lot of conversation and lots of verble reassurance. so I am a bit confused ok a lot confussed I asked her if I could call her and I didnt get a no.. I then told her to call me and she siad give me some time.. But My thinking is If I pursue her and call I might driver her away but If I wait for her to call I aslo build the insurety of her thinking I don;t care and that I met someone else hence the question asking why I didnt call her Last friday night.. We used to talk on the phone every night for hours when we couldnt be together.

What To Do Now.. Please Help… Did I say to much what does all this mean ?
HELP