<small>[ December 09, 2002, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

My update
I chatted with her last night and not sure what, to feel, The OM lives in the town I do and over the last 2 weekends she very casually has inquired about what I did on the weekends
I figured out that her with or without OM have been driving by my house.
(I cleaned my Garage out over the weekend and have been parking in my garage because it sucks scraping windows in the morning something I had been putting off all summer)
She very matter of factly asked who I was dating. I told her nobody that I was nowhere near giving up on us.

Now she thinks I am dating because she hasn’t seen my truck in the driveway when she drives by,( Last Friday I went to uncles birthday party and she questioned what I did last Friday night last night she just asked what I did over the weekend) . I did answer her question about what I did all weekend and that I was home all weekend. I even told her I cleaned out the garage.

She told me that she doesn’t want to give me any FALSE HOPE. That she needs her time and space. So I will giver her that. She also said doesn't trust me at all

She thinks I have been unfaithful to her or might be in the future and she doesn't trust me because I lied to her in the past. But what I lied about had nothing to do with us. It was before her and I were together. How can this be overcome? I know she still loves me. but without any trust is seems I should just move on..

This woman has over the last year has in her anger and Jealousy trashed my house because I went out and played pool with my business partner (Male) one night when we got in a argument. On Several occasions snuck in my house and went through everything thinking I was having an affair, Found an E mail message from a woman I dated a year before we met and that message was dated the same. She called my ex wife after we had an argument and I left to cool off. I have felt at times so controlled by her insecurity and interrogating me about what I do who I talk to
I am the most committed man there is Through all the attacks on me false accusations assumptions, She has at times set me up tried to be manipulative to see if I would slip up and her catch me in a lie, It never happened Now through all this I still love her and somehow think I should hang on. But even my counselor thinks I should run.My friends Think I should Run. I am rereading this and I can't believe I still love her

How can trust be rebuilt if at all ???

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Hopfullandpositive ]</small>

Well I am Going on with my life at this point. I have to let go for me to go on. I will always care for her but I am not waiting for her.

indy,
just a quick note. The description you give of her makes her look very troubled. She is in need of counseling and professional help.
She fits the same parameters one of my ex-friends fits. Very manipulative, extremely jealous, holds grudges forever and won't really care loosing friends by it.

She drove all of her boyfriends crazy, and she cheated in all of them under the assumption that they were cheating, this assumptions made just after they had talked to a female at the bus stop or talked friendly with a cashier.

She interrogated us, her circle of friends, and tried to squeeze gossip about her boyfriends' imagined dates and flirting and whatever else.
All of us drifted slowly but steadily away from her due to her liking of drama and nearly obsession to discover an affair that didn't exist.
She once admitted that she created all of this as a distraction so her boyfriend/s would be too busy trying to figure out what made her think he was cheating so she could sneak easily.

Once again your case might be different. Only you can tell the right decision.

-Good Luck!

Alostwife Thanks for your Imput

I don't think she was unfathfull in the past, we spent so much time together. I could be wrong or Mybe I am just in denienal. I can say I know I brought some of the insecurety on myself I will take by not being totaly honest about things I did in my past. but thats all I will own up to. The rest is hers.

I just am going to move on if she calls she calls. I may at some point try to call her but I am going to giver her Time and plenty of it.
I have had a few people tell me she will call but I don't think she has the guts for it at all. I guess I had her all wrong I thought she was a fighter one that took commitment to heart.. I guess I was wrong. I dont know if I want that right now. we were not married so thats a blessing.

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

I called her last night to say hi. It was a pleasant conversation, how she is doing, how work was going etc. but I could sense something in voice, She was trying to sound very happy and content. But I It didn't work. I sensed her hurt and fear excitement something, (It wasn’t happiness). We said good by and hung up. I somehow felt I needed to express something and Called her back we chatted and I told her I was very sorry for what has happened between us and would like to say I was sorry, I took full responsibly for Lying to her. She said it hurt her that I lied to her. I again said I was truly sorry. That she deserved better and she said yes she did. I told her I was a [censored] and Didn’t totally understand how much it had hurt her until now. I said she was right that the way the relationship was going was very destructive for both of us and that she was right we should both move on. That I learned a valuable lesson about past honesty. That it caused me to loose the most important person In my life ( Her) That I somehow at some point wanted to try and be friends. She said we both should just move on that she didn't know if that was in the future or something like that. I told her I understand . She said If I wouldn’t have F****ed around we wouldn’t be here. That was the only part were I defended myself and Said I was always faithful to her. She did admit that she knew I was faithful to her that she meant about the lie I told her. ( I lied to her about a sexual partner before I met her. She was snooping through my house and found a VCR tape I had made with a former GF I had forgotten I even had it and the way she asked me about it and attracted me about it 3 months after she found it I ended up liey to her about who it was. No it wasn’t anyone she knows.)

When we hung up she said I Love you but I don’t know it she slipped and said it out of habit confusion or what ... But I know she is feeling hurt fear love caring something etc..
I dont want to give up because I still love her and want to put this back together but I know she needs time and space to heal or is this just a Fantasy of mine am I reading into something that isn’t there. I know this girl very well and when she gets angry/ hurt she says and does things she regrets and feels sorry for later. I know the real Kim and that’s the woman I still love and want to be with, but I cant hold out hope that she will come around or call, If I dont take the chance and call her I feel as if I have given up on her or us and that goes agenst my commitment I made to her and us that I was in this for the long haul.


I have gone out with another woman on a date/ dinner last night and I don't know if I am ready for that but I dont want to put my life on hold. The woman I went out with knows what’s going on has been very understanding about my confusion.
and has been a great listener but that’s as far as she knows i want the relationship to go right now.. All I thought about was Kim

Any thoughts on all this? Advice I dont want to push her away but I want her to know I still care, I know for kims past relationships it seems there was no pursuing her I want her to know that If we get through this I will alway be there for her.

Advice on what to do should I call on occasion pursue her or just let her make the next move?

Confused. Hurt and I know she is feeling the same Were to turn I don’t know

Jim

Well either f**k up or starting point. I have been reading about the 180s and giving her space. I have really given the 180 a lot of thought and she used to be the one that pursued me called me etc. Well after lots of going through things in my head. I am somewhat convinced that part of my 180 is me pursing her following up commitments to her about marriage etc, Well I ended up taking a big chance and bought a token of promise for her about were I would like to see this relationship go goals etc. I got to her house I was shaking so badly I didn't know if he was there or if she would even answer the door. She was taking a nap and came to the door I sang her a song that when she was with me and it was on the radio I would sing-along to her.
Well there I was singing this to her and she had the biggest smile and then the tears she hugged me. We went in the house and chatted and then I took to eat and to a park to play on the swings.
We got back to her house and chatted a bit got out a game and both played a bit she was showing me some music she recorded etc.
Then she sat and really chatted. She asked if I was dating anyone I told her i went out once. She ask were we went how we met etc. I told her I found I wasn’t ready to give up on us and that I wasn’t going to date
She asked how my counseling was going I told her I have found out allot about myself. How some of the bhavoriors I had were destructive to me and our relationship. How I felt and what I have learned in just the past month etc.
She was pretty interested and asked allot of questions.

I finally asked how long she had been seeing this guy and she told me. Buy it hurt but I didn’t react at all. I didn’t pressure her or ask probing questions about them.
We talked about us and I asked her for a window of opportunity, we chatted about how wonderful things were between us and then the hurt she has and she just broke down and put her head on my shoulder and cried. She asked why I lied to her etc.
I only told her what I have learned here and in counseling and at another web site and reading books But That I understand why I did it and how hurtful it was to her and I would never lie to her again. I took full responsibility for hurting her and how that lie turned into guilt in me and snowballed from there.
As I was getting ready I asked her if we could get together once a week lunch or something, She said yes . then she said she doesn’t want to get hurt again doesn’t know if there can be an us because, she is interested in the OM and he is very nice and what should she tell him if we try and put this back together.
I just said I you have the rest of your life to leave me but I feel we have a real window to get back to what we had. During the first year and a half. She did say she would like that , but again said she wasn’t there yet.
How My finding the destructive things I had been doing and now that I know what was wrong I can avoid them.
I left she walked me to my car and gave me a kiss and a big hug then another Kiss.
I got home and told her I would find the recipe she lost for her Cheese cake and call her with it Well I called her and told her I found it and would email it to her. We chatted a bit more about our dogs then I said I had to go

I am not sure what to do now any opinions ?

She is a person that needs lots of reinforcement and reasurance. How can I do that without pushing ?

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Detaching but hopfull ]</small>

Well I am blue again. After our day we spent Sunday I think I was to pushy and hopeful. We talked Monday briefly and she asked about the website here so I sent her the link. She seemed interested and replied with a message of thanks. Well we had made plans to get together this week for dinner. I ordered her flowers to be delivered Wednesday at her work and a big arrangement of flowers and a wreath sent to her house. Then Tuesday night she called and said she just wasn’t ready yet.. To go forward. Well we chatted and probably talked to much about the R. I told her I was hurt by her Decision about canceling Dinner and tried to reason with her etc. Same old same old Stuff we have been going over and over.
Well i tried to cancel the flower delivery because I wanted to give her what she asked for Space I didn’t want her to think I was pressuring her etc. Well I couldn’t get the deliver stopped but couldn’t.
Well I just decided That I was going to detach from all this and move on . Well I ended up calling her and she asked about the flowers and I said yes i did send them. (I was feeling like a fool for sending them) so I said if she wanted me to I would come pick them up. She said no they were wonderful. I didn’t want her to feel pressured. Even though I sent them just because I wanted to I really didn’t expect anything out of her but a thank you.
Well I had to cut her off in the middle of her conversation and told her I would call her back in a few. Someone was at my door.
Well she called me back a few times while I was chatting with my friend that stopped by. I then called her back. We chatted and I was still feeling like a fool for trusting her and me sending flowers. I told her I was done I wanted to move on that I wanted her to box up my things at her house and send them to me. That I was going to do the same with her things that are at my house. She asked why the change over night etc. Then asked if I was dating someone etc. I told her I was planning on going on a date. The she was very quiet and asked who it was I told her it was no one she knows, then she started listing of female friends of mine that I have known for years and are married or with someone. I got upset with her because it seemed like the same conversation we have had for a year now always attacking me about the friends I have kept in contact with. Well said things I have wanted to say but never had I call her a liar and that she betrayed me and our promise we made to each other. I then just hung up on her.
Well after I cooled myself down I called her back left a message and said I was sorry about the outburst and to call me about arranging what she wanted to do regarding The items we need to exchange. I have some expensive ear rings that I don’t trust to mail.

Well I totally blew it I think. I still care very deeply for this woman and love her but I think the fat lady has started singing. I am just letting go for now. I don't think I am giving up I know I am going to leave the door cracked but I am not going put my life on hold.

Jim --

I'm very confused! Seems that you have more than one screen name; at least two others that I've found. Why?

We're trying our best to offer our thoughts and advice and support but following your threads has become a real chore since we don't know whom to address or where to look.

So today, you're "Hopfullandpositive" (sic) and some days you're "Detaching but hopfull" (sic) and other days you're "Indywaterbum." Why?

We've been here for you and will continue to be here for you, but you're getting in your own way with these multiple personnas. Pick one and stick with it, please!

Ammon

I was just updating my outlook as time went on. I was goig to update it again, but know that you have pointed out that its hard to follow, I will just leave it as is.
I do thank everyone for there support. I am at a point were I am just steeping back and letting go for now and take care of me and try not to fall into the back and forth. as much as I would like things to work out between us,I know that we both need time to heal, when I we spent the day together It was great but at times it was hurtfull to bee that close to her and not show how much I care. to see the hurt, fear guilt sadness in her and her not wanting me to be there for her. Looking back it seems I made several mistakes and she did also, I have been reading lots of books and a couple that really stuck out was Codependent no more, and Tell Me No Lies. and Dr Harlys Book Fall in love stay in love. I think it might have been to late, It hurts for me say that because it means letting go of everything we promised each other our dreams hopes goals.
I will try and keep my hope afloat I know by my out burst on the phone with her I might have said to much, honesty hurts at times and I picked the wrong time, the wrong way and now I have to pick up and go on..
Well I would like some feed back from anyone who is at the same place I am.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Hopfullandpositive ]</small>

She had called and said she would be home Friday night and we could finish exchanging a few of our personal Items. I told her I had plans. So Saturday morning I get a call from her and she said she would be in town ( with OM I am guessing) If i left it on the front porch she woul pick them up around 9pm
Well I was home with a couple friends over and wasnt paying attn. She pick up her things and left mine. without me knowing( Probably good thing)
So I decided just to have no contact with her at all, But maybe at times send a card in the mail etc.
Well then low and behold, I was working Monday and all of a Sudden I got an Instant message from her on AIM. Well what seems strange is she had blocked me from seeing her online or sending any messages to her for the last 6 weeks. Well we chatted a little. She thanked me for putting her things out so they could be picked up. Then just wanted to chat. After a few min I told her I was heading home, and she asked if I would chat more when I got there.
So I did chat with her a bit, asked about who the girl was at my house etc. Was I serious about her etc.
I didnt give any details. then she wanted to know if it was ok that we be friends and talk, But she wasnt sure what her BF would think about chatting or being friends with her Ex. Then asked me the same. I just said That would be nice.

Now were do I go Seems she is making some type of contact
when we talk what do we talk about?
She made it very clear she wants some type of contact.
Here Is My update.. Still utterly confused but seems like right direction.
We have been chatting online alot so far and things seem to be going well. last night we went shoppig and to dinner then some more shopping. I was very very nervious but things went pretty good. While we were eatting we chatted about the Relationship and I didnt get much feedback. The OM is out of town, so i think that had something to do with her meeting me. Something that confuses me we had a great time, a couple times it got hurtfull for her and I some of the things we taked about etc. She said she doesnt want to hurt the OM because she is with me.. I didn't know how to respond to that so I said nothing, I made her very aware of my goal in putting our relationship back together, And if we have to start as this way I will accept that. I was chatting with her today a couple times and we made plans for new years eve dinner..

Need advice from anyone on what to make out of this week?

Still utterly confused but seems like right direction.
We have been chatting online allot so far and things seem to be going well. last night we went shopping and to dinner then some more shopping. I was very very nervous but things went pretty good. While we were eating we chatted about the Relationship and I didnt get much feedback. The OM is out of town, so i think that had something to do with her meeting me. Something that confuses me we had a great time, a couple times it got hurtful for her and I some of the things we taked about etc. She said she doesn’t want to hurt the OM because she is with me.. I didn't know how to respond to that so I said nothing, I made her very aware of my goal in putting our relationship back together, And if we have to start as this way I will accept that. I was chatting with her today a couple times and we made plans for new years eve dinner..

Spent New years Eve with her. Had a good Time Went to Dinner came back to my house played a board game, then we made some CD's on the computer together. We talked allot we had a very heart to heart last night, Just what I was not wanting to happen. It was hard very
hard. She told me that she has some strong feeling for
this guy and then she also said she sees hope for us were only 2 weeks ago she didn't see that at all and wanted nothing to do with me.
I can see how confused she is and That is very
hard on me because as much as I love her I know I
can't change her feeling about him or convince her
with words how I wonderful it can be between us how
everything right now points to that.
New years day We chatted and she canceled her get together with her family and we got together spent the afternoon and night together, I didn’t leave until 5 the next day. She said many times over and over were did all the changes come from and she said that the Sex we had was still the best she ever had and seemed to have gotten better, The Om was going to stop by so I left but I think we are on the right track even though she wants to keep things quite for now.

Well I am blue again but still not giving up.. The Om is back and things are backsliding a bit. We had along chat today it started on Im over the net then she Called. She is confused she said doesn't know what she wants. She did say several times two weeks ago she seen no Hope at all between us NONE.
She knows what my goal is with her and that I love her, She said she has hope but she isn't there yet,
That there is allot of hurt and she is trying not to bring that up when we chat. She said she has the door open and hasn’t shut it.
She knows that I went out on a date and said that she couldn't continue to chat or be friends at this point knowing I was still dating anyone. That it would be to hard on her. She is the one that kept telling me to date that I might meet someone else. So I tried and found out that I don't want to date anyone right now. I gave myself a time line to see where things are going over the next several months .
Tonight she called and wanted me to watch her dog while she goes out with OM. She told him she was dropping off her dog here and would be late meeting him. She told me his comment as she was leaving and I think she was offended by it. I didn’t say anything about it. It seems he is very uncomfortable and insecure with her stopping here.

Am I headed for a big hurt or what’s everyone’s thoughts.. Any point of view would be helpful

Well Stiil holing on ..

<small>[ January 14, 2003, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: Hopfullandpositive ]</small>

Hope everyone is doing well my thoughts are with you all

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Hopfullandpositive ]</small>