Well, I made a mistake. Huge actually. I found out that H went to Belgrade for his ? vacation. Oh my God...it sickens me. SICKENS me. I became desperate...distraught...all over again.

He was putting up lights for the "sake of D" as he put it. I wanted him to leave. GONE. I know I should have said nothing about my knowledge but I WAS HURT. It was so wrong of me to react.

BUT IT HURT.

I asked him all the wrong questions. How, why...
It was terrible. Absolutely terrible. H felt so justified.

He kept telling me he didn't love me anymore. So what if he was married on paper??? He has been gone for a year and had every right to do what he did. I can honestly tell you I haven't cried in SO long...but today, I sobbed. I couldn't believe it.

I asked him why he didn't go to a lawyer upon his return. Because he was waiting for me to be civil.

Maybe it's the holidays and the memories...I told him I was sorry.

I just was plain wrong to do what I did. I really believed I was getting so much better. I was wrong.

Dear Terri,

Hon, I am sorry. Knowledge hurts but lies hurt worse and longer. Now it is out there. You probably gave him some relief that he couldn't give himself.

Now give yourself some relief. It will take a while but after this pain subsides, you will have a clearer mind as to your next step. Now there is no reason for him to stop the D. Watch and see what he does. He probably used that vacation to check out how 'loyal' that OW really is. He probably wanted to keep his 'options' open. Well honey, do you want to be an option or #1?

I understand the crossroads where you reside. Now is a turning point. You think you did wrong today? I think not. I believe that you brought to light what was needed to reach that turning point.

You see this is actually better for you than him. It all depends on one's outlook. What else is he hiding? At this point, who cares?

Terri, now more than ever, you take care of Terri and your little one. TEll him no more fako's his daughter is well aware that her daddy has 'girlfriends'. Other women who he likes to be with other than his family. TEll him...... then let him wonder what that means. He will accuse you of planting stuff in her head. Tell him nope, she learns this just by association with her daddy..... what are you telling her anyway, wS?

Be strong Terri..... you are dealing with a man on the edge without scrupples. Protect yourself.

take care,
L.

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid, Thanks for saving me tonight. I'm really low. Feel empty all over again. Guess I was on the "feel good" side for the long run...once again I was wrong.

Looked at our wedding album...so full of promise. This wasn't supposed to happen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now there is no reason for him to stop the D. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think there was a reason stopping him before now? Sorry I'm asking...I need some clarity. Do you think I burst this "civil" bubble?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well honey, do you want to be an option or #1? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't even believe he believes me to be an option.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that you brought to light what was needed to reach that turning point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How so? I think I brought to light something he didn't want revealed but definitely evidence that his affair is alive and kicking...that he doesn't love me anymore and loves someone else now. However, I don't believe that the OW would appreciate him coming on to me a couple of times in a week...or wait, as he puts it, some weak moments.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see this is actually better for you than him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish with all my heart you were right about this. Somehow, I think that it just gives him more ammunition.

How did he lose his scruples?

You didn't "blow" anything -- and in many ways, I agree that this is better for you than it is for him.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you have been in almost as much of a fog for the past year as your WH. All that time he has been showing exactly what kind of man he really is, but instead of facing that you've been telling yourself he really does love you and is just "angry" for some unfathomable reason. You take his bad treatment as signs of "guilt" and "love."

The bottom line is, this man has another woman in his life and has been treating you like crap in the hope that you'll throw him out and divorce him. That way, he doesn't have to be the bad guy and can blame everything on you -- and STILL be free to go off with the babe from Belgrade.

This is NOT "love" by ANY stretch. You are much better off without him.

Hi PB, I guess you're right. I've believed and hoped that he would come home. I really felt that he wasn't pursuing the D because perhaps, he really wasn't sure in his heart BUT, I must accept this for what it is.

He loves the OW.

He doesn't love me.

I get it but I really didn't think he was this type of guy, you know?

Terri, you didn't make a mistake.

And if he REALLY wanted a divorce, he'd have filed. His excuses are complete BS (no pun intended!)

When did you talk to Steve last?

It may be time to start practicing a bit more tough love or even a plan B.

I think its time you tell him that for your D's sake, so that she doesn't get her hopes up...that he start acting divorced - no more visits at your house..etc.

Terri,

At least he is not living with the OW.. it was just a few days... a trip.. it is not the end.

PB- I am not sure you have lived apart from your h, or had an h in a FULL FLEDGED A... I understand your poview.. but that too was many of our poview's before our h's had the real A>.. that we wouldn't accept it, or take them back... people make mistakes..

Terri, your h's A is a fantasy ...not a real life day in , day out family... not a marriage... YOU ARE STILL HIS wIFE..

THIS IS A BLOW, BUT IT CUOLD BE WORSE.

Sorry for the caps, just got them off... I know you are hurting... pulling out the albums makes it worse... you see who they were.

Today I watched a video of my h playing a song we wrote together and singing the words.

(((((((((TERRI)))))))))))))))

I wish I could be there to give you a real hug. YOu will make it through this... if it can be saved, you are doing all you can.. and it can... there is one part missing..> A CHANNGE IN H... you can't change him.

Keep up the changes in you sweetie.. you are doing well.

We are all permitted to make mistakes in this life.

Hugs, H

<<<PB- I am not sure you have lived apart from your h>>>

That is a good point. I haven't. What I was pointing out is that desperately clinging to the hope that abusive behavior is somehow a sign of love, and that if a man treats you horribly it's because he really loves you and just feels guilty about hurting you, is in itself an extremely sick and destructive way to live.

"Plan A" does NOT mean you put up with this kind of stuff while telling yourself his abuse is a sign of "love."

No man behaves like this without a reason. If a man loves you, you will know it. He will NOT act like this unless he means it -- and if he is really so twisted that he thinks this is how a man shows love to his wife, why on earth would you subject yourself and your child to one minute of his presence?

According to Terrified's posts, this man has been physically and emotionally abusive for a very long time. I find it very hard to believe that the Harleys still recommend "Plan A" in this case.

I'll say it again: this man wants out, either because of his girlfriend and/or for some other reason, but he wants you to be the one to put him out so he can blame you for ending the marriage and he can tell himself he didn't do anything wrong.

Abuse and cruelty are never, ever, ever signs of love, not even with the most twisted logic. Love doesn't feel like that.

Hi PB,

I don't discount any of what you're saying as being true. However, my H demonstrates some of these characteristics in other relationships. He can be critical with his sisters and his father and was accused of some verbal abuse at work.

He's also fairly critical of one of his closest friends. That's him. He's critical.

Am I excusing him? No.

I don't believe that abuse and cruelty are signs of love but alot of what I read on this site is that many WS's behave in this manner.

I don't believe my H feels love for me today. I just feel hopeful that perhaps he may rediscover his love for me at some point. And I realize that I probably wrong but...I don't know anymore.

Sorry Bramble and Honey, I'm a little unfocused and didn't respond your threads in my last reply.

I think this last episode is tearing me apart.

Bramble, I think you're right about the tough love thing. Should have been like this from the start. I feel like I've been taken for a fool.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think its time you tell him that for your D's sake, so that she doesn't get her hopes up...that he start acting divorced - no more visits at your house..etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But this means that my D will be exposed to his apartment. Oh my God...that will destroy her, won't it? He knows that but I guess that's the reality of the situation, isn't it? I fear this Bramble. I really do.

I haven't talked to Steve but I need to...need anti-D's too...

Honey, No, he is not living with the OW but he has daily contact with her. This hurts so much. SO much.

Today is hard Honey. I don't really know how I should act anymore.

He shared a vacation with another woman while married and feels no regret, no shame...

As Orchid said rightfully, a man with no scruples.

Thank you for your replies.

All of us feel so bad for your pain...
But the truth shall set you free...and I truly truly believe that....fear of the unknown is always worst...

Funny, it doesn't change much for him....he already knew he did what he did...
I don't think he hides the truth from you to hurt you...(how you feel)...but hides it from himself mostly...hard for him to face his actions... does his mom know where he was...(and prepare emotionally now that she might..and though it feels like another betrayal to you...prepare for it now and seek as much compassion as you can for those being dragged along with him.......remember her(mom) knowing doesn't change anything...

he didn't have the guts to tell you...why?? because he knows how it makes him look and how it tarnishes his perfect reputation of "being forced into this..."

Set yourself free Terr....mourn the new info...thats OK...

And terr, still this has not even begun to play out....the other truths you are missing is that

1. The affair with the OW still has spent no real time in reality.(couple days DOES not count)...it still remains fantasy...with husband easy to hide the real him....cause the real him is lost...not lost to the affair because that can only be based on a shadow of a healthy man...but lost in his disconnection of taking responsibility for his actions....scapegoating you all the way...

2 He has built so many walls up how everything and anything is your fault that they can not stand forever and they will crash down...takes way to much energy to sustain such blame...gets old and tiring to those who have to hear it over and over,...

There are very few true victims in our world...

You mourn his taking daughter to his apartment...I say HA to that...that my friend is direct consequance to his actions and it is about time he steps up to the plate he made...and never is your daughter a pawn...but she is directly affected by his actions..and he will have to come to terms with that...or continue to suffer...

I would seek info on support groups NOW on people divorcing...check with your church first Terr or the diocese..parents with out partner...
NOT because I beleive you are definately going to be divorced but because I believe you need a really strong support group to NOT react based soley on daughters "perceived" reactions which would then lead you to make poor decisions about what is best for you and her...example fear of her reaction to husbands apartment...you let him talk you into seeing soley at your place..while he continues to be disrepectful to you...(that's just an example...and not telling you what to do/ not do at this point)....BUT please get support and strength for you...and not from all of those that will want to say "i told you so' for they will only drag you down....support for you to have somewhere to turn to...

Terrified he doesn't love someone else...he doesn't like/love himself right now to be capable to love anyone else....probably doesn't love you...RIGHT NOW....
Love and compassion are real emotions that take self relflection before they can be given freely...anger and meaness are easy...they come out quick and force people away so no one wants to get close...love pulls people closer and exposes parts of us...he's unplugged that part right now....same old same old...and again don't get caught up in believing that he is warm wonderful loving guy to OW>..actions speak louder than words...and this guy abandoned his family...people see that coming a mile away...and people don't buy it's "better this way"...

Lay low till you feel strong enough not to react....even his bogus line about waiting for you to be civil to do anything is so childish...Cause the truth is you were pretty civil for quite a while...and he did't file but made passes at you....sheeesh...does he listen to what comes out of his mouth...next week the criteria would be that you are a red head. (like me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

this post rambles everywhere.. so the most important thing to say is ...I am sorry for your pain...and if I could I would wish it away in a second...
We are here for you...
ARK

Ark, I was doing SO well. It's like another d-day I guess. I feel like I disappointed everyone by falling back into the same behaviour patterns. I should have let it go.

He became frantic. Called my mother to plead with her to talk some sense into me. It was terrible.

This morning he called asking me not to call him on his cell phone today since he would be with clients. Didn't want to hear "my crap"...well, all I said was that I understand and I hung up. He then called again and said that he's going to call his parents and ask them not to speak to me anymore. I simply replied and said fine, I'll do it for you.

I took a vacation day. Our company Christmas party was on Saturday night so I just didn't want to hear about it today. Ark, I haven't told anyone at work about my situation simply because I work in a different city ( an hour away from home) and just don't want to deal with the stares, the questions. Until I'm divorced, I told myself I would be okay but it's hart to put up the face.

Really hard today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think he hides the truth from you to hurt you...(how you feel)...but hides it from himself mostly...hard for him to face his actions... does his mom know where he was.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He told me he hide the truth because he knows I can't deal with it. The funny thing it is much harder to face this lying WS...everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie so I think I would have preferred to know even if it hurt.

His mother doesn't even know the OW is from Yugoslavia. I haven't told her and as you said, her knowing won't make a difference. It would probably be perceived as another LB and devastate my IL's even further.

Your perspective always helps me to steer straighter. I so needed it today. Believe me Ark...I read and re-read each and every one of your sentences.

Terri,
Like the others have said, he knew where he was...your knowing doesn't change anything that happened MONTHS ago. It doesn't change how he's behaved, nicer, no divorce.

He didn't tell you he was with the OW, not because you couldn't handle it, but because it suited him to lie or obscure the truth.

If he was waiting for you to be civil, obviously he doesn't have a clue what that it, because you HAVE BEEN CIVIL. What more could you do? Give him more money, I guess, have sex with him when he's wanting it--but those things aren't reasonable on his part at this time.

He has threatened you with divorce every few days or weeks. He doesn't have to wait for anything, but he's CHOSEN not to go through with anything.

He can feel and talk as justified as he wants but he's still DEAD WRONG!!!!

He is a married man, he's just very bad at it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Terri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi Lor,

I'm not well today. As you may have seen from my post to Ark, I'm home today. I'm just in state of dread. I don't know why. It's as if I'm just here in body but my spirit is gone, you know?

He no longer feels obligated to me or our marriage, Lor.

I just need some help, like SO MUCH help. I'm losing it, I think.

I did manage to take D to see Santa. Dressed her up. She wasn't scared this year. We had lunch at the mall and then an ice cream as a treat. Then I brought her to my IL's because of my errands. I have so many and have done virtually nothing this weekend with the exception of groceries.

D has been really good. Hugs me alot. I told her that I'm not well and a little unhappy. She seems to understand.

I just need some time, space...who knows? It's all a little too much to handle and I can't figure out how my H thinks it's just something I must accept.

Wow...

I'm so sorry you are knocked down by this.

Going out with your daughter was good.

I've just been reminded of that "dread" feeling. I had an awful dream (I think it was because I saw the FOW at the grocery story, had a little relapse of wishing she was suffering...). I woke both myself & H by crying...in the dream he was leaving and told me he'd never stopped talking to the FOW daily. And never would. He said in the dead way he used to tell me the worst new. And, I knew it was the end of our marriage, but it didn't stop me from screaming at him.

Awake, he was wonderful, reassuring. But it took me a long, long time to sleep. My mind has remembered how bad things were, but it's been a long time since the hurt was present in that way.

Ok, so why am I telling you this?

The trauma of what you are going through is very deep. It's a loss of dreams, love, self-esteem, logic, an expected way of life and future. Even when you re-adjust, you know that you aren't the same anymore.

Like for me, the gains have been good enough that I've accepted what I lost, what my H lost, that there was a very bad time in our lives. I don't see that there is a lot of choice not to accept it at some point, I don't want a life of mourning or bitterness.

You've been plucky and self-directed the last several weeks, and that's good. But it doesn't mean you don't, or won't, mourn.

Your H's words & actions don't make much sense. Your confusion in many cases is probably directly tied to his lying. It is mind-boggling when someone lies even when there seems no reason to lie.

If your H wants a divorce, wouldn't it make sense for him to bluntly tell you he was going to see the OW, maybe hoping it would make you so mad or disappointed you'd file? But he didn't, avoiding a blow-up may have been a piece of the puzzle, but in truth, I don't think he wanted to burn that bridge quite yet.

He also doesn't have the right to ask you not to talk to his parents. That is very controlling behavior. If his parents don't want to talk to you, that's different, it's a choice they can make, but his declaring that is selfish & short-sighted. These people are your daughter's grandparents. They'll be in your life as long as your daughter is, they can have separate birthday cakes, but school programs, performances, games, graduations, etc can't be divided up.

I don't know what you did that you are so sorry for, and you don't have to share it. But crying, yelling, even screaming & breaking stuff are things many of us have slid into. Do your best to behave well, but if you lose it, you aren't the first, and you won't be the last here on MB.

I don't even know your H & I'd be happy to slap him about the head & shoulders <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

Ark & Orchid have already given you the good advice, I'm just commisserating.

If the divorce papers come tomorrow, it still isn't because of what you did this weekend, it is because your H choose, not to work on his marriage, but to have an affair and to leave his family.

That will always be the reason for the divorce.

Terri,

Ok let's try to put some fire under you! Hm..... well you know when he comes over and tries to 'share his anger'? Tell him to smile.....one of you better be really happy to offset the total misery the other is feeling.

Tell him to smile even if he doesn't want to..wish him eternal miserable happiness. Yea that's it. Let him frown and smile at the same time. Tell him if he does that, he'd be the first and maybe be put in the smithsonian under ..... oops better stop here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

Hello all and thank-you for listening.

Lor, You describe it exactly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've just been reminded of that "dread" feeling </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you experienced it too? It happens most to me when going to sleep and waking up. I just got up and feel shaky, hollow and empty.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said in the dead way he used to tell me the worst new. And, I knew it was the end of our marriage, but it didn't stop me from screaming at him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He used to talk to you in this dead way? And you used to feel like it was the end? It's my Sunday all over again. And I wonder how my H remains steadfast and justified. All I feel is DREAD. And it's not because he's going to file. It's because he loves someone else and was reminded of it. It's because I know he was with her again and made love to her. It wasn't emotionless like everything is with me or in the way he treats me.

It's knowing he was with her again that hurts SO deeply and his uncaring attitude towards me and my pain.

And he's not going to go get a divorce. He's not going to file. He complained about a joint chequing account. I told him to meet me at the bank to remove myself from the account. I did that yesterday afternoon when he called again. I said, Yeah, right. I'm not walking in there to do any such thing.

I told him to take Jenna to his apt. He said, No, it's not the right time but I insisted that we have no choice. He refused citing that I am not putting my D first.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your H wants a divorce, wouldn't it make sense for him to bluntly tell you he was going to see the OW, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said I couldn't handle the truth and he knew I wouldn't file because I don't have the courage.

Lor, I can honestly tell you that he will not serve me with papers. He will not go to the lawyer. Must I?

Orchid, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell him to smile.....one of you better be really happy to offset the total misery the other is feeling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will try but he says he is not miserable unless he is here at home with me. He says he is "happy" without me. He really believes it O.

Eternal miserable happiness...that sounds more like him now.

Terrified...

You are forgetting somethings....His love and his affair for this woman has not spent any time in reality...it has only existed within the realms of limited time with each partner on there best behavior....
Yeah he may love the idea and the fantasy of this other woman...cause this guy is so far disconnected from his own reality that it is doubtful that he would engage in much interaction that is painful or even honest...
Don't focus on her...and don't get sucked into the trap that he loves her and all is well in their la-la land...if that's what tripping you up....what you imagine is way worse then how things most likely are...

She doesn't seem in any rush to have him there or her be here full time....not quite rushing into the two of them being together...

Stastically most affairs die a natural death even when the BS does N-o-t-h-i-n-g....

You say he feels no shame...wrong...people that feel no shame tell mommy all about their new life..."but mom don't you want to be happy for me??" he hasn't he doesn't...he feels a lot of bad things about himself...he just keeps pushing them on you...

I think that you go back to the qualities of plan A when interacting with him.....the ones where you keep interactions with out you losing it...
(and EVERYONE everyone everyone here loses it...it is not about beating oneself up when you do....sometimes nothing feels better than lashing out and hurting the other like you hurt...so be it...move on...The less ammo you hand this guy the more you stand to force him to change his apporoach..

How did you find out...did he tell you....did he tell you because you have been doing such a nice job lately...and he needed to shake you up to justify his continued behavior...

Things I would do if I were you...
1. Babble babble babble back....he tells you he wasn't going to tell you till you were civil...say that's funny I was just thinking about not letting you in my house till you start being civil...Or tell him...from now on why not daughter and I come to your house all the time...and then I get to tell you what a mess things are there, go in your fridge for food, and be uncivil to you in your home?? Doesn't that sound like fun dear??

Tell him you and daughter are from now on going to any mass you feel like...and that it is not any of his concern...and exactly when did the Pope and Church change their views on infidelity...and if the host is as easy to swallow as all his lies are? (OK that's really cold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Tell him that is not now or never his role in life to decide what you can and can not handle... that his feeble attempts to justify his lieing and each and every lie he gets caught in serves only to hurt him in the end more...for even with his mile long list of horrific deeds you did that caused of this...gag gag...lieing just didn't make that list now did it...and if you are waiting for im to be truthful just as he waits for you to be civil

Tell him you are not going to file:
mainly because if he lies to you pre-divorce one can only assume that it will continue....and that you have no reason to trust him what so ever...and he better start mending that aspect ASAP

because you are not the one that cheated..but that you are not going to let him or anyone else in your life that engages in such behaviors as being/doing
1. a liar
2. critical of how someone else keeps their house...(miss manners would find that very rude.)
3. raises their voice (unless Barry maNilow is playing in the background making it neccesary (?sp) to do so...
4. That while he just keeps adding all bad things terrified does to his list...he better start one of his... cause he is no prize...
(did he tell you to quit talking to his mom???
God is he a two year old...?? Babble back that if it is OK for him to talk to other woman exactly what right does he have to tell you to whom you can speak or not speak to...ask him...
5. Having daughter at his apartment is his direct responsibility and consequance of all of his doings. And that although he feels lieing is a good thing that you have decided that one your daughters parents has the balls enough to be the truthful one....and so you will be...

No more repeated phone calls per day..
No more being around waiting on him...make plans with out them...and if daughter misses some "quality time" with him that is STILL his responsibility to adress and fix...and any blame he attempts get laid right back on his doorstep...you want control in seeing her??? Guess you better file then buddy...she is not a pawn...but if you do things this way he will continue to drag you down....

Most importantly be safe...again I have enough faith in you to know your husband and gage how much out of control he is...and that you at all times think and put your safety first...

Do not get get up in some fantasy in your head that all is peachy-keen between him and universe and you are the sole root of badness in his world....that's what he wants you to believe...
He has shame,
he has regret
he appears to be justified...BUT that is a false front to push blame away....

ARK

Terrified,

Hope you don't mind me hopping in and telling Lor thanks for good advice. It helped me too.

My heart aches for you. Please don't be down on yourself. You did not blow it your H did. You sound like a terrific, not terrified, person. Stay strong and you will be okay H or not. Take the best that is inside of you and make it shine.

Sharon

Ark nailed it. Read that last post carefully.

It's knowing he was with her again that hurts SO deeply and his uncaring attitude towards me and my pain.

As Ark has said, the A hasn't face the reality of day to day life. With the OW so far away, you don't daily have it in your life either. I know my H still sees the FOW. Shoot, I'll see her at a Xmas party on Sunday. So, with the OW being so far away you haven't had to process through repeated contact.

Like your H's lies, contact isn't something you can control.

Orchid talks about how at a certain point she pushed her H toward the OW. I tried to point out the "reality" to my H, that our pre & teenage daughters weren't going to accept the OW, that he was losing his older daughter entirely--OD wouldn't spend the night with her dad, until the very last month of our separations. He never had her overnight unless here at the house or when he took the girls to visit his parents (without me natch) for almost 2 years.

So, just as the OW being in Yugo keeps the fantasy for your H, I wonder if it doesn't keep it "not real" for you? I'm not talking about betrayal or heartbreak or loss, I know thats real, but it isn't in your day to day, "I can't reach him on the phone/he's with her". But the realization he was with her during the vacation may have flipped that "real" switch for you.

I didn't know about my H's PA for 8 months, through the first 2 separations. He denied an OW that whole time. He confessed...then continued to deny seeing her for the next 10 months. Telling me, he couldn't be married to me, couldn't live with me, needed "space" to "think" (read bonk the OW). And, yes, said with dead eyes, misery, even hunched shoulders and hanging head.

Many times throughout the whole 18 months, and more after with the continuing EA (denied) contact, I made decisions upon the worst case scenario--that he was seeing her, even though he said he wasn't.

Now you.

Would you have done anything differently these past couple of months if you had known?

Weren't you acting under at least the suspicion that's where he was?

If you did what you thought was right, not knowing for sure (again, deeply suspicious), then you likely did what was right for the reality.

Plan A, being nonconfrontative, being proactive, I believe those were right, even if she had been in your face and not in Yugo.

Finding out what happened months ago isn't a reason to change doing what you have felt positive about since then.

You had a meltdown, ok. Can't change that. Decide on your course of action, regroup. I think fewer calls, dropping your D at his apartment are fine. A change of behavior that is noticeable, but not fraught with meaning.

If he's never going to serve D papers, then you can ignore that whole schtick when he goes into it. Nod, "ok".