You asked what led me to make the choices I made. I assume you meant having an affair. The answer, though it didn't seem like this at the time, is selfishness. The desire to have my needs met and to be with this man and to be loved and to have someone appreciate my loving them outweighed my desire to do what I ultimately knew was right. We do this on many levels every day, mine was just on a much bigger scale than something trivial like eating chocolate when you're a diabetic. And, the consequences of my actions are much longer lasting and realistically, effect far more people.

TheStorm,

Did your H do anything that helped you "wake up"?

I am a BS looking for guidance. Thanks.

TheStorm, I also would like to know what it took for you to come out of the fog. My H is not listening to anyone and is blaming me for his affair. I was in plan b and blew it last night with conversation over son's low grades which of course I got blamed for that also. Was it the guilt or did you lose the love for OP?

I hate to be "me, too", but I'm curious also.

It usually seems to be something like:

fantasy of A faded
reality of potential loss (family, S, maybe integrity) set in

sometimes, resetting of values, realization of pain caused occurs, but that usually seems secondary to one of the first two. Something needs to occur that distracts the selfishness.

Ok, first question, did my H do anything to help me wake up?

No, not any one specific thing. Although he did do something I truly appreciate. The FOM did a few really horrific things to me; one of them did extend to my H as well. When the pain was so great, so fresh that I thought I couldn't see, my husband sat there and listened to me talk about my selfishness. He helped me to honestly understand (as much as what he did could be understood) what the FOM was thinking without bashing either one of us and he even told me that, as much as FOM was capable of such a thing, he did believe that he really loved me.
That spoke volumes to me because he could have just as easily picked at my wounds as he had done in the past and played all kinds of mind games with me. I would have deserved it, but he didn't do that. So, that was helpful... and honestly, suprising.

It wasn't the guilt, either. I mean, there is guilt that I experience and had to (still do from time to time) deal with, but that wasn't it. I didn't fall out of love with the FOM, in fact, I still have quite a great deal of love for him. Might always have, I don't know. I try not to focus on it. But, I know in fact that I did gain some love for him and his whole family... I will not allow him to stumble again, at least not with me. Nor will I end my marriage for him. I didn't make the commitment to be married with him in my mind or in my heart; I won't make the commitment to end it for him, either. He has no place in my marriage. If it ends, it won't be because of him and I would expect no less from him on his side of life. But of course, I don't want to know about it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm not suprised that your husband is blaming you for his affair... I went through that, too. Right up until the day I decided it was time for me to grow up. Up until that day, nothing in my life had ever been my fault. It wasn't my fault I had an affair... my husband didn't love me when we married, had hurt me and my marriage was over anyway. He pushed me to do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
It wasn't my fault my marriage sucked, it was my FOM's wife who kept pointing out all of his faults; I was perfectly happy before that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It wasn't my fault that the FOM loved me more than he loved her (have to UGH here just for the fact that DID go through my head); she was a shrew... never mind I allowed him to keep coming back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It wasn't my fault that I lost my friends, it was the FOM because he betrayed me (OMG!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> One day, sitting in a counseling session, I very easily saw my daughters in this same place if I didn't make some changes. It was time for me to grow up and take responsibilities for my choices. I thought I had let life happen to me so I wouldn't have to be responsible for things; while the whole time I was the one who had molded the shape of my life. I wasn't in control of all of it, I know, but the majority of the messes I was in, I had made. And, my children are looking to me on how to be a woman, a wife and a mother. Was this what I wanted them to see??? My husband is dealing with some stuff as well (as I have said, I'm a BS and a WS) and was THIS the representation of Christian life that I wanted to show him? You can stop having an affair and still be unfaithful. There was a real eye-opener.

With God's help, I am turning my life around. I still do things that I know some people don't agree with: I have not rearranged my entire world so that I don't run into the FOM and his BS. I still drive down the same streets I have always driven down, I still frequent the same spots I have always frequented and I feel like that's helpful to me. They do live on one of the streets that I drive down... I don't pay any attention to them. To me, it's just another house on another street. When I first was going through the whole withdrawal thing and wanted to answer his calls, seeing their house reminded me of the wife that he'd be betraying by talking to me (this was before my big wake-up call). Some of you may say that this is really insensitive to his wife, and you may be right. Because of a LOT of things that she has done to me, my family and most importantly my children, I've really lost a lot of my sensitivity towards her. I never said I was perfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok, I think that's about it. Again, I'm notorious for not really answering all of the question, so if I missed something, or you want to know something else, just give me a post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 03, 2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: TheStorm ]</small>

((( THE STORM )))

Nice name by the way!

I always admire folks who take responsibility for making the bed they are laying in... then change themselves accordingly.

****YOU ROCK****

Pepper

Pepper~

Thanks! I've had a hard couple of days and honestly, it's nice to hear kind words.

The Storm

I chose this name because I feel like this is what I've been living in for the last few years. I can't say it's abated yet, but I feel like the aged oak in the storm now, instead of the tiny sapling. And that, my friends, is a good feeling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Props to you for sharing this. It is very courageous of you. You may not know it, but your story is priceless insight into an A. Thank you so much.

The Storm, I also want to thank you for your answers. I know it is hard for you to relive the pain of your A by discussing it with us all. Your story gives me hope that someday my WH might see what this A is doing to him and our family. God Bless You..Rhonda

Storm, I guess I asked the right question of you today, glad I posted it. But, when I asked you the question about telling more, I was not asking about the affair, I was feeling that you had gone thru some tough times in your marriage that lead up to letting the A be the catalyst for turning some things around, be it a bad way or a good way, it did make you grow. Did it make your H also? Like I said in my first posting to you, I admire what you told the poster who felt everyone was judging her. I just thought as you had admitted to being not only the WS, but the BS, was that a trigger in the marriage also? Yea, you can call me nibby, but obviously alot of people appreciated you answering me. Thanks so much. Now if we could get a WSH to write as candidly as you did for all the women BSs....Lining up anyone?? Take care Storm, and welcome to MB.

Thanks Neesha. Yes, I do think being the BS was a huge trigger towards being the WS. Correction: let me say that being the BS for so long with no end to the B really help line things us for me mentally and emotionally to open myself up for an A. When the opportunity came (and I use opportunity loosely, but I can't think of the right word right now), I just didn't care anymore. He didn't care, why should I?? Again, I was doing what is so classic of me: putting the responsibility of my choices on someone else... if only he had done X and Y, then I wouldn't want to do Z. (mentally shaking my head here)

That always concerns me when I see threads with BSs saying that "they are better" or "they would NEVER betray someone and hurt someone that they loved that way." I must respectfully disagree. We are all pretty much hardwired the same. We all have the same capacity for selfishness and I don't think that there are many of us WS who planned to have an affair. Passing moments when we fantasized about another person? Sure. But actually planning it out in advance. No, you'd have a hard time selling me that one. I know that I was once among the BSs out there who said, "Not me. Not ever." Now I see that it could be anybody, given the right pressures, circumstances and if they didn't guard themselves against it. -Whew- I had wanted to vent that for a LONG time, that felt good! lol

Was the affair a catalyst for change? Yes, I guess it was for me. I finally saw the destructive pattern I was CHOOSING for myself. Not making a choice, well it's still a choice and I was choosing to self-destruct in a lot of ways. The affair was just the most glaring example of it. And, due to the FOM's BS (who, I'm sorry, is a nut), I saw how many more lives it was affecting beyond the four of us.

Was there a lot of hurt in my marriage? Yes. I am 24 years old and was barely 18 when I married. I can honestly say now I had no idea as to the gravity of the commitment I was making. I also had no idea that my now husband was marrying me out of a misplaced obligation and really did not love me. And, until recently, I was under the misguided impression that mattered. My husband's personal story is not mine to tell, so I will not share it at this time, but let's just say that he's got his own set of big issues to deal with and they've caused a lot of havoc and pain in our marriage as well. The biggest of which, in my mind, is something I can share, because perhaps one of you is dealing with it, too. My husband suffers from a Emotional/Mental disorder: Depression. He has a unipolar Major Depressive Disorder, recurrent. This causes a lot of instability in our household and is the complete polar opposite of my personality. It's also made him emotionally unavailable for support for me throughout most of our marriage. He's not quite capable of emotionally supporting and dealing with himself, much less myself or our children. Until the last few months, I've made very little attempt to try and understand where he was coming from. I didn't care. I had been diagnosed with manic depression as a teen and I had overcome it (or so I thought, really I was just misdiagnosed! lol); I couldn't understand why he didn't just deal with it and move on... he had so much to be thankful for. This really caused a lot of resentment and, to be honest, it still does sometimes. The FOM has my same basic personality (Though I am still much more bubbly than he), and we just "clicked." This is something that, for a time, bothered my husband immensely. He said when we were dating that he was enamoured by my ability to "click" with everybody. I was the life of the party kind of girl and had all kinds of friends and boyfriends. He didn't have friends, hadn't dated and so I was a huge "prize." We were young, stuff like common ground, interests and like goals didn't mean much to us.

But, oh do they now. For all of you who are either getting married, or are on the road to rebuilding, I just can't stress enough this point. My husband's grandfather gave me the most precious piece of advice I have ever been given next to the story of salvation and it is this: in marriage, you can either grow together or you will grow apart. Sounds simple, right? Well, only after my A did I really understand this. My H and I had made no effort to grow together through the years, as we really shared no common interests, and so we grew apart. Now, it's much harder than it would have been had we been working together from ground zero. Anyway, I'm no expert, but if one person out there gets that, then all this rambling will have totally been worth it.

To all who have welcomed me, thank you. It is sincerely appreciated.

Storm, I know what you mean by H's mental condition, my WS refuses to admit that he has one and thus, the A. My WS has BPD(Borderline Personality Disorder)and will not seek treatment; became emotionally detached and unavailable after feeling the pressures of every day life, (my threads are posted here) such as paying bills, working, blah blah. He disengaged from me emotionally and wanted me to emotionally and mentally keep us both going. Of course that is not healthy or should be expected, but as that was his reality , he made himself a victim and sought out anything that could make him escape responsibility and make him feel the high again of what it felt like when we got together. We have been together 3 years, this A was caught by me Oct 28/02. He started seeing someone he used to work with but has not had contact with until he met her at school. The MOW is Korean and has promised WS to have his baby, in which he thinks is a gift from God. If you read my posts here it will tell you some of the crap that has been going on but I find it useless to tell you about. He has moved out. She is married to an american so WS is going to lawyers to see if she will get deported if she leaves husband, they want to go to Las Vegas to marry. Before he left; he left pictures (of them together) so I could find them where he took me to share his vows with me 3 years ago (if it was not so malicious I would laugh). We did not put our vows on paper so I have no legal rights to do anything about everything he has put on me, I am disabled and was going to school. So, until he hits bottom and will seek psychological help, he will repeat this with her too. He never had a stable relationship until I came into his life, this was told to me from his father, sister (who lives with us (me now), and his brothers. I understand exactly what you were saying in your post about H's mental behavior and where that lead you, so please know that I really do thank you for posting on behalf of both sides. This site has helped me stay focused on me and it was his choice to do this. Thing is, he will see it thru to the point where it goes way beyond repair when and if she gets pregnant. With his mental state and the "FOG" that everyone here speaks about, I seem to be fighting a losing battle. Don't get me wrong, I am a positive person, I just know that he is wayyy gone right now.

Wow Neesha, I feel for you; but at the same time, I know exactly what you mean about the malisciousness of mental disorders, especially the depressive disorders. Don't you just feel sometimes that they must think something along the lines of, "Well it's not enough that I be totally miserable, I'm going to take my whole world along with me???"

The delusional thoughts have been very hard for me to understand. My H, poor soul, has had some very hard and very wierd thoughts run through his head. He doesn't really believe this now, but for a couple of years almost he was convinced that if he could not come up with an original thought, and original invention, then his life served no purpose. Then there was the low point a few years ago when he believed (and I think part of him still kinda buys into this, though I have gotten him to since understand that it's just a cop-out) that God is okay with you committing suicide. Those kind of thoughts are scary to me, too, because there is no logic in them and therefore, no way to dispute them.

Is your H on meds or will he consider them? Because, especially for Bi-polar, that can be a saving grace. There are some very good medicine cocktails out there that can really straighten people out. Your husband isn't really dealing with just "Fog," he's dealing with an inability to control his own mind, and that's not only so much harder, but can be dangerous. Check out these websites, if you haven't already, as they have some really good information:

Behavenet Psychologynet

If he's not willing to take medication, in the end, you have to decide how much you can handle and then move foward with that and let the rest go. For you, I hate to say this because you love the guy, but if he's not willing to do what he needs to do to be healthy, and you don't have children with this man, you may be better off letting him go. I know that hurts, but it's so much harder dealing with all of this once children are involved. And his particular disorder is never going to go away. In fact, if he is unmedicated and continues to be so, there is a higher probability of him becoming violent and a danger to himself and others than there is of him not. With my H, it's really heartbreaking to see how the children interact with it. My eldest had a little friend come with us on an outing last week and she asked my daughter if she had a daddy, because she had never seen him at any of the school functions and what-not and my daughter replied, "Yes, but he's sick. He's always very sad." That just broke my heart!!! For not only my daughter, who at 5 is already making excuses for her father, but for my H, who doesn't see (either because he isn't capable, doesn't want to, or both) how it's affecting our precious little girls!!!

Anyway, enough of that rant. For Luki, I caught today what you really asked. I don't think that there is anything that a BS can do to pull a WS out of the fog or to see how selfish they've been. Some will come out of the fog, but never fully see the ramafications of their actions. But whatever they end up doing, they kind of have to do it on their own time. You can't make them. You can only decide what you can handle lovingly and be there until you no longer can. You know what I mean???

Yes Storm, he asked the doctor in September to put him on Welbutrin to stop smoking, well the doctor is his new doctor and since WS looks and can function the doctor started him on in and WS stopped smoking, but not used correctly as it has to be monitored. Welbuting is not the choice for BPD. We do not have children, I can't;hysterectomy, cancer. He knew that 3 years ago and he did not want to have children, until this MOW. I am able to let him go because I know I have no control over the situation. I love him but I can not save him from himself or make him understand not only is he "foggin it" he also has a issue mentally that he refuses to deal with. Can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink. I love him very much and as I told you, for him to have done this during the holiday season when he is so family oriented and needy for family, I know he has "lost" it. Family has turned their backs on him as they are hurting for what he has done to not only me but to them. I feel for your daughter as I know she can not understand yet the degree to which her life is affected by her father's illness,but as she gets older she will learn so much more and that he loves her very much. I am sorry for the pain you have in your life also. My WS let every day life issues take him over the edge and he needed to escape, so he chose this method to do so. I am working on me and to stay strong for myself and family, and I will be there for WS when and if he bottoms out and needs support. It might take him awhile to come out of this episode but he will, I'm just praying to God that he does not get himself really in deep by getting the MOW pregnant. What is crazy is he ran away from responsiblity and financial issues, and we all know that having a child is cheap, and there is no responsibilty in raising one!! (see the delusion) Also, he has stated that her and him have transcended anything him and I ever had, (uh-huh) heard that before (got the t-shirt). So Storm that is it in a nutshell. (no pun intended). I still have my humor intact!! Take Care and thanks for your thoughts and advice, I really appreciate it, more than you'll ever know.