Curious about mbers thoughts on people who come here with judgemental tones about those of us trying to make our M's work.

What is the point and why bother is my humble opinion.

Although supportive or helpful advice or ideas could be helpful.. why be so down on those of us experiencing difficulties with a marriage that has involved infidelity and the pain or it/ the fog, etc.?

A certain poster is aggravating me again with his own advice on my life.. to the extreme... Sure I can leave it and let it go...

But isn't there some rule about doing research on us mbers? For those in good marriages... with NO problems as this poster claims.. why bother?

Thanks, H

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

For a reminder about some generally accepted attitudes here:
posted November 02, 2002 07:50 PM
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becontent,
Even though my post follows yours, it was not directed solely at you.

I have read Honey's threads this past week, I am the moderator who locked one of them.

It is not against MB rules for one poster to ask another poster with whom he/she is in disagreement not to post on his/her threads. It isn't commonly done, but it is an informal means useful in that it may decrease disharmony on the forum.

I'd like you to think of the message of my post as similar to one of the MB 4 Rules of Successfull Marriage, the Rule of Care, not being the cause of, or adding to, another's unhappiness.

The requirement of respectful discussion is directed to everyone.

quote from moderator:

Personal attacks, hurtfulness are not acceptable.

I also want to assure you that posters do not need to have had infidelity in their marriages in order to post in the infidelity forums.

If you have further concerns, please email me.

--------------------
Archuletan

Just one more point, this place is called Marriage Builders, and I have yet to see where an affair is a membership requirement. If you don't mind, please point it out to me.

I believe you just posted the answer for me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also want to assure you that posters do not need to have had infidelity in their marriages in order to post in the infidelity forums.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and I have never posted in the infidelity forum, but if I wanted to it is okay according to the post.

As I believe it is Takola that has said, "...never miss a good opportunity to shut up..." I believe I will heed her advice.

Quoting another (BA) - tagging off.

Honey,
Willard Harley, Steve Harley, Jennifer--no infidelity in their personal lives, as far as we know, right?

Are they not qualified?

If every counselor had to go through every problem they counsel for, I doubt the profession would survive.

I comprehend you aren't talking about professionals, but posters, and I do think that having been "there" definitely adds empathy, but that doesn't mean that those who has not gone through infidelity, separation, alcoholism, or in other words, walked in your shoes, all have invalid opinions.

I got some of my best advice from posters who were never separated and had immediately remorseful spouses upon discovery. I thank God it never occurred to me that they weren't qualified for me to pay attention to because they hadn't been in my shoes.

Posters are giving you some really good information, sorting through your own posts to try to help...I do believe you have more sincere help, even if difficult to read, than you have attacks.

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

Oh, and becontent, just for clarification you say

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have never posted in the infidelity forum </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GQII is in the Infidelity forum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Honey,

No, affairs are certainly NOT a requirement to participate (in a thoughtful, non-attacking way) in these boards and discussions.

However, the problems in your marriage at this point have nothing to do with infidelity. Zip. I certainly don't want to minimize or trivialize the pain and anguish of infidelity, not at all, but right now that's the LEAST of the problems in your marriage.

I'm worried about you, and many others are here as well. Please, for your children and for yourself...I pray that someday you will understand that this is the bottom line:

Until Jim is forced to stand on his own and face the consequences of his actions (i.e. REAL consequences...right now why should he change??)and until he realizes that HE must be the one to prove he is worthy to YOU (he's the screw-up here...not you...so why are you doing all the work??) until these two things - at the minimum - occur, then you cannot begin the road to recovery. HE'S the one who should be kissing YOUR behind and begging for another chance...not the other way around.

I know this is marriage builders, but you are dealing with an alcoholic. It sucks, but the truth is that NOTHING you do to work on a marriage with an alcoholic will make a damn bit of difference in the long run unless the disease is treated. There are no shortcuts in this, and anything that may seem like progress is only a poorly-stuck-on band-aid.

Please be careful, and God bless - miss wakeup

Becontent - I wrote to you on the other post but I wasn't sure if you were going to read it again - I will say that I think you have great advice - - Keep posting - Like I just wrote to Honey I really think that someone looking at the situation from the outside usually has the best advice - because they are looking at it without emotion - I actually love to read Honey because I am hoping that I don't become as needy as her -I have chosen to put my children first instead of my marriage - therefore I let him go and I am now divorced - and like I have tried to explain to Honey on numerous occasions but she basically gets mad at me and tells me to go to the divorce boards - that there comes a time when regardless of how much you love someone - you have to sometimes have to let go - to give your children the stability that they deserve.... My situation only went on for 1 year - I found last October but if you ask my two girls - they will tell you it has been the worst year of their life - they have seen their normal family flipped upside down - and do I believe in divorce - NO - did I ever want to get divorced NO - but do my two girls mean more to me than anything else in the world yes... Am I happy NO - not right now - will I ever be able to love or trust someone again - I don't know - but I want my girls to be happy and if that means being divorced - well that is where I am today - There father has changed - he may never become the person that he used to be or that he should be - but I cannot let him take the whole family down - those girls needed to be able to depend on one grownup....

IMO...

This entire thread is just a diversionary tactic.

When too many truths hit home on the original thread, another one is started to divert the attention.

My 17 year old does this very thing when he doesn't want to hear what I have to say and when the heat gets a little more than he can bear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> He knows that I am speaking the truth and he suddenly wants to divert the attention back to me...as in..."yeah, but you could have cooked lasagna for me last night" .... what??????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The truths were too plentiful and too hard to swallow on the other thread so the "post worthiness" of the posters is now in question.
No....this has NOTHING to do with lasagna! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Always,
committed

Food for thought:
The requirement of respectful discussion is directed to everyone.

quote from moderator:

Personal attacks, hurtfulness are not acceptable.

Another 'judgemental' reply by becontent:

posted November 19, 2002 08:44 PM
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BC

Is this my Mother in Law,If not you sure soundlike her!!
Chill out..I don't know why your saying i'm bitter.
I'm sorry you feel that way...i'm not judging you !!!!!I'm giving my opinion.
What I would do,no teenager is perfect my child will make mistakes. I will not go around gossiping about it.But I will not Pretend that there an Angel either!
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Posts: 179 | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged |

becontent
Member
Member # 18461

posted November 19, 2002 09:03 PM
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Rest assured, I am not your mother-in-law. Anger and bitterness are parts of the process. I just thought I detected a little bitterness. My Bad. I didn't know I needed to "Chill Out", but if you feel that I do, I will. In fact, I will do one better and apologize for offending you.

Everything I posted was in an effort to help you, but I see it has had the opposite effect and I will drop it.

Good luck and best wishes for you and your son.

I definitely do not think you need have an affair in your marriage... as perhaps this thread started out .. to help with it... but yes it does add EMPATHY.. something bcontent is short on.

THis is a SUPPORT FORUM for people who want to SAVE their marriages and build from destruction... NO, I do not have blinders on. NO< I am not mistreating my children.

Thank goodness I AM NOT SO JUDGEMENTAL of others.

I appreciate tons and hundreds of posts here.. don't get me wrong...

I just wonder what the motive of someone who comes here to 'learn' and ends of critical and hurtful of others ...

Thanks, H

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Lor - I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I have learned something in all this and learning is a good thing.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You know what really bothers me about all this? I agree that sometimes Honey's reasoning abilities and reality assessments do go off the chart. However, instead of one or two people politely pointing out the flaws in her logic, it becomes a free-for-all dogpile on honey that, instead of helping her, just results in a natural defensiveness.

When the truth is used not to guide and help, but to BLUDGEON, defensiveness will ALWAYS result. I can see Honey TRY to listen and patiently take in advice in the first 2-3 posts, but her patience [and steeled pride] naturally wears thin after it just keeps coming like a battering ram. And then everyone gets mad at her for reacting!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She feel attacked and hears NOTHING at that point. Anyone here would feel the same way. Why this special treatment is reserved for Honey is beyond me; I never see other members treated this way.

Don't get me wrong, some made some very cogent points, but more is not better and only serves to DESTROY the message.

I echo what Melody Lane has written.

We should do our best to end all these quasi disrespectful judgments, and instead spend more time helping the newbies who are in crisis and needing our wise words and support.

Peace,
Jo

Thanks to anyone.. ANYONE .. who can see that my perhaps.. too honest.. posts... or too extreme, emotional, etc.... JUST TOO.... too for anyone not in a marriage... - not saying it is a real marriage... right NOW--- but for anyone... not in the waves of an alcoholic marriage with infidelity trying to do one's best to save it....

I know I choose to fight this battle.... many would not. Perhaps he is not worth it.... I posed this qustion to him today.... ws are you really worth this.. people seem to think you can never treat me right.... ???? WS seems to think he can treat me right, and to my memory he did... but we have together battled alcoholism, his serious denial of it, and my crazed attempt s to control it.

Perhaps had I not fell for this man as the first true love of my life... I am loyal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> - and many of my true friends will attest that to you.. if you are my friend, I will indeed be your friend as long as you need me. Some of you would say I would not be wanted as a friend, even a mother lately? Now that is quite low..... considering....

But ... enough of that.

Melody Lane and Resilient- thanks... ! You hit the nail on the head. I do get it. I do hear the posters. I just don't want to be torn down, and in the nicest way possible I am trying to say it. It pushes me away from a good support center/ system... the forum here.. when I get criticized harshly.

It hurts, when there is enough already hurting me in my life. Sure I can let it flow right off my back. But seriously.... why put me down and tell me I am a poor mother- can you tell I didn't like that comment? It was a low blow... to someone who does practially nothing but take care of my boys and work and try to save my family.

I don't go into long posts about my boys here... since I am here to vent and learn and grow about my marriage... that is what the site is about... Since I focus on my posts about my drama filled life as of late... that is GETTTING BETTER....

I get told I must not take care of my boys and they should be taken from me? I beg to differ on that one.

I am defensive yes. Am I tempted to just ignore the criticism , yes. The same critical posters keep coming back to jump on me... and I have to admit they must have their own personal reasons for wanting to chime in and tell me how to do it their way.. and how wrong I am, etc. etc.- some of whom have admitted to divorcing alcoholics and are glad of it... some who only claim to live better lives and pity me... ;(.... how sad... to pity me....

Surely I come here seeking support and strength- No not total or complete validation or mirror image responses to my ideas.. or etc.

Much of the controversy against me... begins simply enough.. but the attacks grow... and when I defend myself... I only get more... even compared to a teenager.. which I am not.

I am working with a marriage counselor and see great possibility and hope for my marriage to be restored. I know my husband loves me. He is not a husband to me now and I know that... what happened between us is still about infidelity, and that which caused it. I hate it. it is not fun.. but if my boys end up 30 yrs from now coming to see me and their dad happy together and happily having us hold our grandchildren together... I will be able to say-

I am so glad i hung in there.. even when hardly anyone believed I could ever have a good life with my once loving husband again.. the once prince charming that I lost due to my mistakes and his....

I still believe my marriage can be more than it ever was. SOmehow with that belief in my mind.. even if some of you think I have my blinders on... it is much more possible that it will happen than if I did not believe in it, and KNOW it is possible.

Yes, I am hard headed.. but my love with my h was not imagined, nor is it now. We still love each other... there is just a lot of the typical ... fogginess that goes on...

This forum does help tremendously as infidelity has it's own special sad twist.. most of you know what it feels like... -

I am not judgemental of anyone, but hate being harshly judged. I would say my background and foo issues might make me a sensitive candidate to criticism... sometimes you just can't take it anymore!!! especially in a mean way.

I hear all the posts, just when couched in meanness and insults.. it is hard to see any true caring at all.

Thanks, H

Honey,

came to check in and your post made me cry...(((Honey))). I know how much you want your marriage to work.

This is our safe haven, MB is a place where alot of us are in, or have been, in similiar positions. We come here to do our venting, why, because we know everyone understands. The last thing we need is to have people beat up on us when we are down. If we wanted that done, we would just ask coworkers and other people involved in our life that just does not understand why we want our marriage to work.

I really which I could offer you advice on your husbands alcoholism, seems like BrambleRose is very qualified to help you

One of Shania Twain's songs were on the radio last night, made me cry, "You're still the one", I think it is my theme song.


YOU'RE STILL THE ONE

Written by Twain/Lange
(When I first saw you, I saw love. And the
first time you touched me, I felt love. And
after all this time, you're still the one I love.)
Looks like we made it
Look how far we've come my baby
We mighta took the long way
We knew we'd get there someday

Bridge:
They said, "I bet they'll never make it"
But just look at us holding on
We're still together still going strong

Chorus:
(You're still the one)
You're still the one I run to
The one that I belong to
You're still the one I want for life
(You're still the one)
You're still the one that I love
The only one I dream of
You're still the one I kiss good night

Ain't nothin' better
We beat the odds together
I'm glad we didn't listen
Look at what we would be missin'

(Bridge)
(Chorus)
(Chorus)

I'm so glad we made it
Look how far we've come my baby

Thanks GC- I love... LOVE your theme song.. and am SOOO HAPPY FOR YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

YOu are a great inspiration, and you made it through the hard days.

I am getting a copy of surrendered wife! Thanks for all your kind support and friendship.... and thanks for thinking I am not a crazy... I know I might be a little... but rather crazy to love my h, than dump him....

Hugs to you and MUCH HAPPINESS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Honey

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Honey --
I rarely post to you anymore.

But just wanted to add my wholehearted wish that Jim returns to you just as soon as possible!

Lexxy- Thank you thank you--- me too, here's to all ws being defogged! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hugs, H

Honey,

I have not read any of your previous posts but I would just like to make one comment:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> even if some of you think I have my blinders on </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">honey, we all have blinders on, to one degree or another. If we didn't we wouldn't - any of us, BS, WS or just learning - be here.

Never forget (and I am not a religous person so this is not a religous reference but something I just believe in wholewheartedly):

we are all human, we can all make mistakes - the key is recognising our human frailty and working to remedy and protect against our own weaknesses - because IMVHO that is what strength is.

And I hope and believe that is why everyone here at MB is here - and belive in working on. So you hang in there and let no one (even if unmeant), particularly the man you love, stop you from being hopeful.

That's it - and sorry - it was more than one point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BOWD- Thanks... if I didn't have some sort of blinder on.... who knows what would of happened to me? YOu are right, we can't see it ALL.

I have been learning and growing so much here at this site.

Weather I restore my marriage, as I surely want to... or not.... it is clear that I have grown , and now realize how much better a wife I could of been and now can be a better one... with e ven more room to grow.

I WAS a very demanding wife and I made life really hard.... for my ws at times.... seriuosly... why would he put up with some of my antics??? But he had them too, and still does.

I just shed tears as my milaw sent a picture of me in my wh together framed and asked me to put it out in our den - or a room where the kids could see us happy together.. it was us dancing and smiling at his sisters wedding.... only 4 yrs ago.... that was in the 14th yr of our relationship.. with one 10 mnth seperation under the belt.

Thanks for being here all of you.

This forum has helped me sooo o much.

I appreciate it, and I am so very thankful I had this place to go to, even in my darkest or crazinest moments.

Who he is today IS NOT ACCEPTABLE... but we are working on getting there... THE FOG thinks it is all me, me, me.. and not him .... but is clearing, and I see it clearing more all of the time.

He is not living a happy life, although at times he may pretend to be..... and at times maybe we all like our solitude... but to lose your family Forever????

Hugs, H