Hi Jo!
Well, I ain't surprised, since my exH's OW did it to him too. Yep, he caught her flirting with another MM, JUST like she did with him. He felt used and stupid. I was actually proud of exH for dumping her after that. Maybe he did learn something, and maybe yours is learning also.

hugs,
Faith1

Thanks Katie, that makes good sense.

I'm wondering what OW will do now, meaning if she'll lay low for a while thinking everyone will forget they saw what they saw, and then start screwing around again on ex-H, but next time be sneakier.

You know, she knows I'm very close with OC #2's family, so I'm sure she's concerned I know about this. LOL ... kinda fun thinking how she's worried I may know and somehow ex-H may find out.

She's created her own web of deceit, and most likely will suffocate in it.

I hope you're doing well, Katie. I hope you and SG have a wonderful and peaceful Christmas.

Love,
Jo

Jo,

Well oh well......it takes a while but the true colors always shine through!!!! So your XH is not enough man for this OW? Hm...... who is surprised? Not me. Just like Katie says and we know this A thing is an addiction and when the honeymoon is over, plop! The WS loses their newness and needs to be replaced by another victim....uhmmmm I mean OM.

Better send out a warning to all in the neighborhood. LOOK OUT OW on the prowl!

You know many a OP are not that good looking, in fact from what I have heard even the prostitutes are ugly. So beauty isn't a requirement. Not all but many.

My girlfriend met a known hooker once and she was this fat lady who had men waiting at her door. Her home was a mess and they were still lined up. When asked why, the prostitute said, they often just want to talk and someone to listen with their legs open. I don't owe anything else to them. No commitment, it is more exciting that way! Never thought I would believe so many intelligent men could be that dumb but when they stop using their brain, guess anything is possible.

Can't say they don't deserve what is happening. Just kinda sad the kids have to pay the price.

take care, Jo. Ry may be needing your support real soon.

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Thanks Bears ...

I know I shouldn't be surprised at the fact OW is screwing around on my ex-H. It's just hard for me to imagine someone messing around on someone they supposedly loved so much.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm only surprised that it wasn't him cheating on her first. I think that with many people involved in affairs the thrill of the drama and conflict is a big part of the appeal. for a long time your XH's OW got to feel like she was in a big competition with you, there were dramatic confrontations, big commotion, and that's exciting. Now that things have wound down and no one else is fighting her for him he's probably not nearly as appealing.

So true Fairydust ... and BTW, how are you? I've missed you lots.

I think another element is the fact he is no longer a musician, he works a BORING old day job. No fun in that. She wanted the prestige of having a 40 watt success on her arm.

Plus, he's all fat now too ... LMAO!!!!

I hope you and H are well and thriving. Please don't be such a stranger. Throw a rock now and then, Hon.

Love,
Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>So true Fairydust ... and BTW, how are you? I've missed you lots.

I think another element is the fact he is no longer a musician, he works a BORING old day job. No fun in that. She wanted the prestige of having a 40 watt success on her arm.

Plus, he's all fat now too ... LMAO!!!!

I hope you and H are well and thriving. Please don't be such a stranger. Throw a rock now and then, Hon.

Love,
Jo</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm doing really good thanks. You seem to be feeling pretty well on your feet, which is great. We're actually expecting another baby late this spring!
I didn't realize your exH he was no longer a musician. Uh oh, that doesn't bode well for him and Miss Plaster Caster. I remember during my club days seeing how fast the guys who were no longer in bands lost their luster with the groupies. Even the girls who had previously been obsesses with certain guys lost interest REALLY fast. And the guys all seemed to get fat lol!

Awwwwwe, congrats on the new precious Fairydust Baby. I'm so happy for you and family.

Yeah .. old FATSO musicians, the worse. Esp when they corner you with their has been stories, when they weren't even a BEEN.

I thought of you today before you posted. It was on Lor's post and I used some of your material. About the 80's calling Lor's FOW and asking for their hairdo back. LOLOLOL

Hope you don't mind, I stole it with pride. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Much love,
Jo

Hi Faith and Orchid,

Thanks for responding. I guess knowing OW is cheating on ex-H has helped me somehow. I know I shouldn't base my healing on their destruction, I lean on God for my way most times now.

I still do have feelings for my ex-H, but I tell myself those feelings are for the person he was, not who he is any longer. He's someone else now, all tainted from the OW and her deceitful influence. I look at him like he's brainwashed, but not the brain up above. LOL

Anyhoo, I hope you two are well.

Love,
Jo

Jo-
SG and I are well. Many good wishes to you and yours this holiday season.

AS far as the OW and her stepping out goes. IMHO, it's all about getting high. I was high as hell off of the drama of sneaking around, who knows, will we be caught. That was sooooo much fun for me (for a time).

So i'm sure she's high off the drama of "who will say what to whom and when."

Once nobody cares anymore she'll create more drama. Trust that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>I guess knowing OW is cheating on ex-H has helped me somehow. I know I shouldn't base my healing on their destruction.............</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Jo - this thought grabbed my attention because it's one I used to agonize over, until I recognized the exact need I was trying to fill. Can I share it with the possibility that it'll help you?

I don't think we're cheering specifically for their "destruction" as much as we're yearning validation for all the hurt and confusion we've felt.

Remember the popular admonishment we've frequently heard here (and dished out) for those early stages of affairs when BSs struggle with its irrationality: "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?"

Well, for validation in the latter stages you and I are in, we now want to be right. Being married to the WS is no longer a possibility. We want validation that we were right all along that the affair was a mistake. Its failure provides this for us.

Make sense?

Dave

You're so right-on, Dave. I am looking for validation, and although I have gotten it here, along with numerous kicks in the butt .... the one and ONLY person I want to hear it from is my Ex-H.

He never EVER validated me, or the magnitude of what HE DID to us the first time he did this. He was like the guy on the Dr. Phil show who wanted to not talk about it and just move on. And I was like that guy's wife, trying not to cause waves, supressing my anger and pain, and doing most of the bending. I felt just like her, that I had to figure out ON MY OWN how to deal with such hurt and on-going torture, all without his support or his understanding. Because he didn't want to talk about it. Afterall, he was home wasn't he, wasn't that enough. I mean SOOOOOO many women wanted him and damned if he didn't pick ME again. What more could any woman ask for.

So seeing them (OW and ex-H) on the fast track to Infidelity Central gives me some relief. And then right in the same time frame I see that Dr. Phil Infidelity segment and I'm so emotional about this now. Not a bad emotional, just feelings of vindication and empowerment.

Thank you for understanding me, Dave. Just thank you.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

OK... you got me thinkin'. I was right with you and Dave on the validation thing. I was cheering "Go Dave!!!" when I read it. Then as I read your last post.... it got me thinkin'....

You may or may not remember hearing some of this, so allow me to ramble. I hope it makes sense. And if anything, maybe I just need to write all this out for ME.

I was thrilled as could be when my XH said, "You were right about everything. I'm sorry." Meaning, I was right about the OW, right about their relationship doomed for failure, right about the consequences of him walking out on friends and family, etc. I was thrilled to BE right (to see them fail), and thrilled to hear him say it. He has apologized to me about 10 times now - every time we talk on the phone.... plus once, about 2 months ago, in tears, when I saw him in person to give him something. He's sorry for what he did, and the way he did it. He's sorry for hurting me. He feels like a fool. He knows he made mistakes. He checks up on me, gives me compliments, and wonders if reconciliation is possible in our future.

So, you got me thinkin'.... I'm not sure how I feel about it. Yep - it was great to hear those words, and GREAT to see them fail. But I'm still not satisfied. Hearing those words hasn't made it all right. I guess what I'm reaching for is this: Will anything ever satisfy us? WE have to become whole again with or without that validation from them. I mean, even if we had reached recovery, I would probably never be satisfied, unless I decided to be. I guess that's true forgiveness.... and letting go. (I have some favorite quotes hear on my desk... one of them is "To forgive is to set a prisoner free, and discover the prisoner was you.")

I'm so glad for HIM, that he can face those mistakes, admit them, and apologize to me. I DO feel some satisfaction from that. But, a little voice in my head says, "so what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ". It just seems too late, or not enough...

Like I said... I don't know if this post has any value at all... but I feel better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

hugggggsssssssss!!!!!!
Faith1

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Hi Faith,

I think I understand what you're saying. That my feelings of empowerment and validation, since learning of OW's trangessions, are fleeting.

But maybe I communicated it a bit wrong in my post up above, too. I just think that the WS needs to understand and communicate their understanding of the effects of the affair on the BS, when in recovery.

And remember Hon, I was in recovery for 8 years without an apology or any facet of understanding from my ex-H.

Darn it! I have a meeting .... I'll be back.

Jo

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Well here's my thoughts, take them as you will...

It is a bittersweet 'victory' when the WS comes back to you in a tearful apology long after it's possible to get back together (in my case, I'm married to someone else now).

I know, because my ex-H did it.

Imagine, if you will, how it feels to be sitting across the room from the person you called your husband for 20 years, as you watch his eyes fill with tears and listen to his voice crack, as he tells you he effed up everything, and he knows it now, too late.

This same man who has the same OW/girlfriend he had while we were married, doesn't want her, but sees nothing better for himself. He deserves her, he says.

Because I'm married to someone else now, there are no tears from me (although I did want to cry, but I can't 'go there' with him), no hugs (totally inappropriate)... just a numbed acknowledgement that I understand and forgive. And yes, in the back of my mind, I do wonder why in the HELL it took so long. At one point I remember saying it would have been nice to have heard this three years ago, before our family was ripped to shreads. But then, I must offer up my own apology, although I've done it many times before, because I realize the fault is not just his, but mine too.

So, all I'm saying is that it is validating, yes, but can be painful too.

Oh, and don't think I don't relish in the fights my ex and his girlfriend have... I laughed my head off in summer, 2001 when he went on vacation with her and they passed through Vegas, where she thought he'd marry her. Oops, guess she was wrong. And she was so pixxed she unceremoniously dumped his hiney on the driveway with his bags tossed on top of him. I was with my son at a movie, my daughter's told me. We all laughed. Kids hate her too. Sad, isn't it?

Bottom line is, I don't hate my ex. I still care about him, and I hate to see him hurting. I think I always will. So I hope he doesn't end up with someone who cheats on him, because nobody I care about deserves that, even a former cheater.

Okay, I'm back, thanks for waiting and saving my spot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So, Sheryl and Faith .... am I wrong in feeling some relief in the idea that OW is not able to stay faithful?

And as for my Ex, if you read my earlier threads on this same post, you can see I was torn as well thinking about ex-H having to experience a symbolance of what I have.

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>So, Sheryl and Faith .... am I wrong in feeling some relief in the idea that OW is not able to stay faithful? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your FEELINGS are NEVER wrong, Jo. Ever.

All I am suggesting is that you look at those feelings and ask yourself why you feel the way you do. Just for you, you know?

Because... revenge may be sweet, and the best revenge (in my mind) is when *I* don't give it out. Like my noisy neighbor who I detest - it's best when SOMEONE ELSE complains about her. I don't want it to be me. But that's just my thingy.

Maybe we Saggies are just JUSTICE-DRIVEN. We want the truth to prevail, the good guys to win, and the baddies to suffer. I know I do. But to me, in this deal, NOBODY really wins, do they?

You know what my ex said to me when we talked last week? He said he was GLAD I divorced him because he'd have NEVER changed without it. I believe him. He *couldn't* have apologized three years ago, because he wasn't sorry, he hadn't lost anything, and he had a wedge buried in his heart that wouldn't allow it. Only now he realizes it. I find that very sad.

So again, your feelings are valid, and they are yours. No need to wonder if they're right or wrong. They just ARE what they ARE.

Hugs!!

Okay okay ... and I have been having the BEST revenge, because even tho I am self-imposed lonely for someone special in my life, I AM LIVING WELL and I've been getting better and better each day.

I've been planing my future, decided on a plan for me to heal by taking MY sweet time UNTIL I AM READY, not by anyone else's egg timer.

I have set indicators for when I know I will be whole enough to offer myself to someone, and one of them is when I feel nothing but indifference about Ex-H or OW.

In the meantime, I have to post here and get you guys to help me grow into a more forgiving person. Some days I feel so forgiving and pray for happiness for Ex-H and even <GAG> OW (but of course, only because she may be Ry's step-momma), and some days I am not so forgiving and even a little mad.

So obviously, I'm not there yet ... sheeeesh!

Fine, based on my current progress, I'll be 60 before I can have sex again, how horrible is that?????

LMAO!

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">am I wrong in feeling some relief in the idea that OW is not able to stay faithful?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck no! (Sheryl already gave a wonderful answer, but I wanted to make sure you knew my feelings as well.)

THAT is not what I meant at all. Like I said, I felt great knowing that OW showed her true colors. Letsee what else.... relief that she wasn't Ms. Right for XH.... relief that they didn't live "happily ever after"... and it felt great for XH to apologize for his poor choices for our lives, and his bad judge of character (OW).

I guess what I meant was, you helped me sorta try to verbalize why (1) validation from my XH, and (2) satisfaction from the failure of their R, isn't enough to bring me peace. So, I guess I was trying to suggest that those 2 things probably won't bring you peace either.

I was probably just thinking out loud. Sorry if I confused things.

hugggggsssss!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Faith1

I think I understand now, Faith. I can see how peace will only come from inside me, and I can't ever think I'll get any kind of apology from ex-H. If I wait for that, I'd be doomed.

So working on me and how I feel about things, like when I get mad and hurt, is the only way to be sure I'll heal. Then if things like ex-H apologizes, I can consider that gravy.

Although, after reading what Sheryl wrote, I don't think I could endure watching my ex-H break down in front of me. Heck .... I crumbled the day our Siamese died watching him kneeling down by the grave site and weeping like a baby. It was so heart wrenching. He didn't even cry that way when his mom died. And she was everything to him.

Thank you Faith, for helping me.

Lv,
Jo

My dear Jo,

I just can not imagine a single bone in your body being mean!! Now mine is full of meanness..... kinda contagious from H's family - LOL!!!

Revenge is sweet? For a while but then like all sugar coated treats, it melts. So for longer lasting sweetness (sounds like a gum commercial - eh?), look for what makes you happy. We sooo easily forget the simple things that make us happy. I am learning to give these things a higher priority. You know what? I wish all the Ws and Ops miserable happiness but I also wish the BS and families, true happiness. It is attainable.

The fog does fade, eventually. Where the BS is at the time varies. You are a beautiful woman with so much of your life ahead of you and you deserve nothing but the best. Remember that Jo. What your XH has become is not what you need. He doesn't need it either. As for the OW, she gets what she deserves and then some.

I don't know how to get you over that hump but I think it is right around the corner. You are rightly worried about Ry and I believe he knows it. You will always have a special place in his heart just like you have in ours.

Cyber Hug from me to U.

Love,
L.