I have had my ups and downs of feelings in plan B. It has been just over two months with very little contact.

I received an email last week basically telling me that WH is scared and wants to talk but cannot. I emailed back saying I'd be happy to hear from him when he'd made a decision but not before, still loved him, but cannot deal with his continued relationship.

I was feeling ok about all of this probably because I had been removed from the drama of knowing whether he really was still in contact and not having to hear the painful words from WH.

My WH is depressed and has stopped therapy. He acknowledges he is unhappy (first it was all the marriage that made him unhappy, but at least now he acknowledges that he is just generally unhappy)and before I went to plan B he expressed frustration with not being able to get out of a funk or get his life on track.

Forward to last night....I came home ready to go exercise and opened the mail. Included in the mail was a piece of evidence of contact with OW that was very incriminating (I'm not going into it here because I think OW lurks here).

Boy did I want to LB. But, instead I went for a run, had a glass of wine and read others posts here. I am better today, but got little sleep.

On one hand, I am glad to not see him so that I don't LB. On the other hand, he is telling everybody this complete bulls@#t that he's trying to spend time alone and sort out his head. What a bunch of complete baloney.

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

Unsure,
Whoever listens and believes his Bullcrap, then they are not worth your time and energy to even care, the truth has a strange way of coming out and sometimes people surprise you by how intuitive they really are. I don't know what you found as you say WS lurks here, but all I know is that I am proud of you and respect that you are taking care of yourself and doing the right things for you. My story is similar to yours as you have posted on my threads. I agree with you about not having to deal with the day to day emotional turmoil that was thrown in our face by WS's erratic behavior. My Ws has not even taken all his stuff out of here, but did notice I changed the locks which he said was childish and petty of me, uh-huh!! NOT. He is getting some of his mail here, but does not care to even e-mail me to see what he has, I have tried being nice and emailing him to tell him he needs to keep in contact or get mail delivered to his new place. He also blames me for all the depression and stress in his life now, As if!!! The other thing is he does not even have a clue that I know where his new place is and I have his unlisted number, am I going to call him? Nope. Am I going to go over to his new place and lurk around seeing what else can hurt me? Nope. I'm just trying to do what you are, work on me and fulfill the needs he stopped meeting a long time ago. I think there's something to be said for that, we DO care and know we deserve the best. Please know you are in my thoughts, I am proud of you and admire your strength.

See USH, that's what plan B is all about. Puts a distance between you and hurtful events and people. So far so good. Your WH knows the terms, he can't have it both. Maybe there'll be some movement over the festive seasion. Are you sorted for this period?
N

Hey Unsure!

I know it has been awhile since we have talked but I think you are doing a GREAT plan B. You didn't break down and call WH on the info you found. Instead you went for a run and had a glass of wine, YOU ARE MY KIND OF GAL!!! I am so proud of you. Keep in mind that you can only change yourself. Stay focused on what YOU are working on, don't fall into the LB trap!

WH might be scared to talk to you, he might still have guilty feelings. Just keep up the good work! You will be in my thoughts! Take Care!

HUGS!!!
PQ

Neesha -- Thank you for the encouragement. I know the truth and I think that's what hurts. I know that others will eventually know the truth, but it all may be long after I am done with this pain. Tonight is better, albeit I've had a few glasses of wine. I left work at 3:00 and went for another run and then went back to work. Thank goodness I have a pretty flexible job. As long as I get it done, they don't care whether it's in the middle of the night. You stay strong too.

Nick -- So good to hear from you. Yes, plan B is making some of this easier. If I didn't have to hear about WH through work it would probably work better, but I did get through last night by thinking well goody, he and OW can spend time together and hopefully one of them will realize how selfish they are and how much fun H is under stress and how much fun it is to try and cheer him up all the time. I want them to have a BIG dose of reality. Meanwhile, I'll go running, drink good wine, and enjoy the holidays with friends.

Are you still in counseling with WW? How is that going? How is your daughter?

pq -- I was glad you posted as I was wondering what was going on with you and H. I was very happy to read in your latest post that you had dinner with your mom. Sometimes family is a really terrific thing.

Unsure
My WS adds that she would like me to phone her and talk to me in most of her emails. I have been in Plan B just under 4 weeks.
The temptation to talk to her is great but I just reply with a matter of fact email repeating my Plan B letter points about it not being safe for me to do so unless OM is out of picture.

Hey USH, I like your running & wine therapay! Went for a 20k run last Sunday and had a bottle of nice Italian Barolo afterwards. It definitely works. Thanks for asking - will post a brief update on my thread soon. Nothing major to report anyway - still stuck, I'm afraid.

newsunrise -- The temptation is very strong, but my limited experience has been the one time we did talk all of the drama came flooding back in and I realized that WH is in the same place and I'm heading for a better place. Hang in there.

Nick -- I just caught up with your post about WW and I am so sorry that she is still stuck.

I am beside myself today because I got an email from WH asking me what I was doing for Christmas? Hello? What? I haven't responded. I know that my response SHOULD be that I'd be happy to share the details of my life with him if OW is out of his life and he wants to discuss recovery.

At the same time, the rest of the email basically said "life sucks", "I'm having a hard time at work, and I recognize this is no excuse for not being ready to discuss our relationship".

I'm not really ready to respond to this. I know he is depressed. I know he hasn't sought any help. I know he was at OW's in mid-November and have no idea whether they still are seeing eachother EA/PA, but am guessing yes as they still work with eachother/practically sit on top of eachother. I know that nothing has changed for him in all likelihood. I know that I will just get sucked back in.

I have a big party to go to this weekend that I am very excited about and have a killer outfit to wear (fitted, beaded and I actually feel really good in it for a change). I don't feel the pang of wanting to be at the party with WH because he is so down on life(although I wouldn't mind if he were to see me in this from afar and would hopefully feel a pang of jealousy for not being with me).

I do feel for him. His work does stink right now, but part of that is of his own making.

Sorry for the ramble. Any advice on how to respond?

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

I'm going to have to pay attention to your thread because I want to know what you are going to do. Part of me says that if you are getting such depressing things from him, then he needs to understand that HE must do something for his depression before it destroys any joy he could be capable of experiencing in life. Then there is a part of me that says....haha, OW has to deal with his depression and that should get old for her, (not to sound mean here at all), but I think you have taken so many healing strides, that I feel like "Hey, her WS wants to suck all of her life force once more to get him strong enough to continue his charade".(not being judgemental, these are just playing the devil's advocate here in my own mind. He needs your strength, and that is a tough decision on your part, because I think while he may have some moments of clarity, you know and I know that people who are depressed will seek out a safe haven until they balance out, then bite the hand that holds them up. So, I guess I will have to watch the thread to see how it unfolds. Good luck, and the outfit you described for the party sounds knock-out and lookout, she's steppin out and ain't no stoppin her now!!!!! I hope you have a great time, you deserve it.

Unsureheart be sure in your Plan B approach. You are doing good. Enjoy the party <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi unsure&#8230;

Well here we are&#8230;in what is supposed to be the hap-hap-happiest time of the year and instead we are trying to figure out how to &#8220;celebrate&#8221; the holidays mired in the muck of an untenable situation totally not of our making. Are we having fun yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My WW asked the same question yesterday. What are we going to do for the holidays? WE? WE? WTF&#8230;when did WE become WE again? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

She is still off in her little apartment living some life that I am not really a part of. With OM? No, probably not. Wishing she could be? Maybe. The problem is, like you, I don&#8217;t know and we (WW & I) have agreed that our contact has run too much toward the high drama side that it doesn&#8217;t do either of us any good right now.

So, how to reply? Well, I told her I didn&#8217;t know about the holidays. What she does is up to her. Right or wrong I have gotten her a couple of gifts. She is my wife and I still love her. I will likely get them to her thru my in-laws.

As for us &#8220;celebrating&#8221; together. Unlikely to happen unless some Christmas miracle occurs and she shakes of this long-standing fog of indecision, waffling and lack of commitment. As special as Christmas is and family etc, what difference will that one day make? And if she really feels like she needs to remove herself from me and our marriage then I guess she needs to see what that would be like.

This is how I feel today. I s&#8217;pose that could change before 12/25, but I don&#8217;t think so.

As for your H. I hear so much of what my WW has said in his comments. Mind you she did not work with OM&#8230;he lives 1,500 miles away, but there are phones, e-mail etc. Anyway, one thing that helped my WW a lot in coping with all of this is anti-deps. She was totally opposed to taking them for at least a year but her therapist and her gyn talked her into them and they have helped to smooth out some of the rough spots of her life. It&#8217;s not a miracle and obviously it didn&#8217;t burn off the fog, but it took her from a crying, trembling basket case to someone who could cope on an every day basis. See if you can get your H to agree to &#8220;try&#8221; them to help lift his depression.

In the meantime, wear your killer outfit, enjoy your party and the other good parts of your life. Do what you think is best for USH during the holidays no matter what someone here thinks, what your H thinks or for that matter what your friends and family think. Only you know what is best for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care

E

Hey unsure

Your dress sounds hot. Hope you have a good time at the party. i really admire you sticking in Plan B and not to sound mean because I know you still love your husband but I'm glad that he's miserable and that OW is the one that has to put up with him. I think I'm going to start running to. I use to in the past. Maybe I'll start off with walking though so the ambulance doesn't have to pick me up. Have fun at the party!!! talk to you later depressed

Neesha -- You are right on the money in your description. I think WH seeks me out when he's low because he doesn't want to taint his "perfect" relationship with OW with any of the ugliness that is his life. I can't help but feel sorry for him. I can see that this incredibly smart man has made a mess of his life (and I'm not talking solely about the A) and he just doesn't see it yet. It is as if he is addicted to pain and drama.

porsche -- Thank you for your words of encouragement. I have recently been reading what you've been going through. I noticed that you have two 10 year old girls -- I am assuming twins. My sister has twin 9 year old boys and twins are quite a wonderful thing. I hope you can enjoy the holidays with your girls. My father was a great dad to three girls while my mother was intermittently fully there (she's manic depressive). I am so glad for your girls that you are strong.

Elad -- Unfortunately we are still on the same wave length with our WSs. What do you plan to do for the holidays? I hope not be alone as you were for Thanksgiving. I remember that you said your father died last year, do you not have other family that you can share Christmas with this year? I am likely going to visit my sister's family outside NYC, as one of the great joys in life is watching her three year old girl open gifts.

I can't help but ask you what your thoughts are for how long you are going to wait while your WW lives in her other world? I am curious because I don't know myself. I am accepting and somewhat content (or at least at peace) with doing nothing right now in terms of a D. Like you, I am hoping for that Christmas miracle (or at least not to get pooped on by any reindeer or WS).

Depressed -- I am glad you found my latest thread. I will post to you soon, but I think if you can handle it and not lose it/lovebust, then you should spend Christams with your H. (For those of you in this thread that do not know depressed, she just logged on to just found out. She has a 20 month yo boy and her H recently revealed to her the dreaded "I'm not in love with you". Any help you all can provide her I am sure will be appreciated.)

My plans are to enjoy the weekend. I've arranged to stay at my girlfriend's house for the party so that I can enjoy plenty of champagne without worrying about driving.

I still don't know how or if I am going to respond to the xmas question email.

Take care all.

unsure

Enjoy that champagne girl! Smart move on planning to stay at girlfriends. Also I don't think you should answer him back on plans for Christmas. I know he wonders so let him like I'm sure you had many moments doing. Let him have a taste of what that feels like.
I decided that I will go to H for Christmas and he asked when I was going. I'm not sure yet, but I do know I'm not planning on staying as long as I had planned before. As for him he can wonder too. I'll go when I feel like going. Not to be a B****H or anything but I don't like not having answers. Who does?
Have a blast at the Party!!!

Well, some may find this insulting, but here goes anyway...

Deal with these crazy WS's (of which I was one) as if they are 4 year olds. Because testing boundries is EXACTLY what they are doing.

They want the candy AND the cake. You tell them no, it's one or the other. They'll ask you 80 other times, they'll throw a fit, they'll try to sneak it etc etc etc....to try to get it there way. You stand strong, it's one or the other...and eventually they'll tire of not getting anywhere and either grow up or decide to remain firmly stuck.

So when you tell them you're in Plan B and wanted limited contact and they still pressure you about the holidays...remain strong and re-iterate your decision to remain in Plan B and why.

Thanks for that last comment hope4future... I have a 4 yr old, so I can just compare him to my ws? Gladly makes the picture a lot clearer..

Thanks, H

Hi USH, how did your killer party dress go? These little things get us through you know. When you look at yourself and you think "I look great and WS is missing out", I don't know, maybe I'm shallow but it makes me feel good.

I certainly hope you had a plenty of champagne!

Then something goes wrong and you handle it and you realise how strong you've become, like going running and vino therapy instead of LB'ing - you go girl! This means you are gaining power over you!

I think both our spouses have their heads up their rumps - just an observation.

nothing much doing with me - I'm certainly not marriage building anyway, more Seahorse building than anything else!

Hi unsure---

Well, right now I have not planned anything for the holidays. Our typical plan was always to spend Christmas eve w/my WW&#8217;s family and Christmas Day with mine.

I will likely spend the Christmas day with my family and not do anything with my in-laws, which makes me a bit sad but I can&#8217;t do much about that. My WW is free to join us on Christmas but I doubt that she will.

My brother and sister live nearby so I will have family to spend time with. My dad died in May so it will be our first Christmas without either parent (mom died a few years ago) so it will be very different for us and I want to make sure that we are together.

USH-- I can't help but ask you what your thoughts are for how long you are going to wait while your WW lives in her other world?

Good question. I have a feeling that something will happen after the first of the year. Either she will make a commitment or one of us will file but we can&#8217;t keep living this way.

I hate the thought of going thru a divorce. I mean just cleaning out WW&#8217;s stuff from our house will be gut-wrenchingly sad, but something has to give. February will be the second anniversary of d-day and while I think I have shown patience and strength to get this far&#8230;even my patience has been worn thin.

I have always followed the dictum: &#8220;Don&#8217;t file for a divorce you don&#8217;t want.&#8221; But by then I might very well want the divorce to end all of this and get on with life.

I dunno&#8230;I suppose some people would call me foolish or stubborn or even pathetic for hanging on so long, but I don&#8217;t see it that way.

I just feel that I have stood up for my marriage. In my own way, on my own timetable and if that doesn&#8217;t work for someone else, well, it&#8217;s not their marriage and it&#8217;s not their life.

We all just have to make that decision I guess. But don&#8217;t let anyone pressure you into doing something you don&#8217;t feel is right for USH.

Take care,

E