KS ....

This potential sexual misadventure sounds like alcoholic ghost voices from Christmas Past.

"Hey KS ... come-ON ... you KNOW you'll like it ... you don't want to miss out on a good time do you? You work so hard, you deserve this. Just this one time, then you'll quit."

Sweets ... go to a meeting!!!! This is a sobriety dilemma.

Love ya, Pepper

KS,
I think Cali said it perfectly. Who is Katie Scarlett? What kind of person do you want to be, not who you have been, but who you want to be going forward?

As a BS that is what has kept me going toward reconciliation and I know what has helped FWH to commit fully to our M and give up OW. She gave him pleasure, but that wasn't who he wanted to be. The pursuit of pleasure brings short term satisfaction and being a person of principle, of honesty, caring etc. brings real satisfaction. You don't have to look at it from Christian viewpoint, virtually every religion/philosophy advocates these big picture values.

Obviously you don't completely want to be the person you were before..this is just a very tempting situation. You must decide for yourself who you want to be, and do what follows from that.

Good luck. BTW, does your SG know your history?

more thoughts...

"the dark side is what I know"...

Hon, we revert to 'familiar' behavior in order to HIDE... because it IS familiar... because it feels UNCOMFORTABLE...

Real growth occurs in pain... in that uncomfortable feeling... in feeling out of your depth...

YOU CAN DO THIS... if YOU WANT to...

...but really get in touch with how you will feel AFTER... think of the disappointment that YOU will feel...

...doesn't matter at all what OTHERS will think or feel...

This will get at the CORE of who you REALLY are and WANT to be... it is easier to go BACKWARDS... takes energy and courage to move forward...

Good luck...

You can email me @ CaliSkoolch@excite.com if you want to...

Cali

KS

I for one am certainly NOT judging you! As a former WS I wear my cross of shame everyday!!! It's a bit like being a former cigarette smoker, do you know what I mean?!?!

Seriously, if it's just a quick fix in Chigargo (have I spelt it right?), your SG seems to make you so happy and fulfilled, why just the sex thing? I have never really commented on your threads, but you always seem so sure and positive of how it feels to be with Sam as opposed to being in a R with a man who had other attachments (although he still sometimes comes back to you). The point being, why can't Sam fulfil these needs for you? If he can't, is he the right man?

Temptation is a difficult thing to handle, and you are wise enough to come here, get flamed, but still get some sound advice.

Take care and be careful whatever!

Wishing you well from London.
Lisa

I have some advice for you Katie girl. Look into your mirror and tell me what you see? Is there a woman there or do you see a selfish, self-centered girl?
What act of sex could be worth your self-respect? You need to learn to love yourself and stop looking for short-term gratification.
It's sad to read a thread like this but honestly how can you be on a site by the Harleys if you don't believe in the Harleys principles?
I think you need to look inside of yourself and see if you can find what's missing, what you need to fill with unavailable men and sexual acts and find out why a good guy can't make you happy enough to be faithful.
You said you don't plan to dump the single guy, but do you plan to tell him you did 'xyz' with Sam for a short-term thrill? I bet he would say c-ya

YELLING .....

GO TO A MEETING KATIE SCARLET

I just got off the phone with my sponsor (a famous xOW). She had some really interesting adice.

#1- she said almost word for word what pepper and Cali said.

#2 - and I thought this was most interesting. She said "going to MB for advice on this topic is beating yourself up. So stop. Give yourself a break. In times past you would have slept with the guy and thought about the consequences later."

I really really appreciate what some of you guys had to say. Espically pepper and cali my 2 old friends.

I need to go hand out in some xOW friendly waters for a while.

ANd I need to go to a meeting.

Katie, you said you could get by with it, that SG would not know, but he isn't the one that WILL know, YOU will!! It might not apply now to your way of thinking, but it will become very apparent in the future when you do come to the realization that you are so much more than you are living right now. It does not matter about anybody else knowing other than you. You can always turn your back on others, but never on yourself. I'm not judging you on this, but as humans no matter what we think we can do or justify, we still have to look in the mirror and know exactly everything we do and it might not be today, tomorrow, but it will be! Katie, think to yourself for one minute, go to the mirror, really look into your eyes and ask yourself, "Am I the person that someone else would be proud of or want to live life in my shoes"? I'm just asking you to reflect on yourself, this has nothing to do with a sex act, not getting caught, SG, or "eric". This is all about you. Take Care

Katie Scarlett,

In reading your posts, it sounds a lot like an alcoholic that has given it up stuggling to keep on the new path while hearing voices from the old way of thinking.

I am the BS so as far as that goes, I cant offer any suggestions specifically for that but I am a sober alcoholic of 10 years and I can share what worked for me as well as others.

It all starts in your head, with a thought. Alcoholics who slip don't just take a drink they have a certain thought process and it leads to a drink. You have reconized this and that's why you are posting. You have reconized that your thoughts are taking you where you don't want to go yet they are familiar. So, change your thoughts.

Sounds too easy right? Just stop thinking about what would / could happen in Chicago. Write down the scenario that you want to happen, the one where you get past this, the one where you have grown and feel a tremendous amout of pride in yourself (or what ever you feel.) Write about it in the present tense, be happy that you have made the right decsision and you came and went to Chicago and NOTHING happened. Where you told your friend up front not to expect that, that you are committed and changed.

Just like an alcoholic, if there is too much temptation just stay away from it. As they say, change people places and things. Ususally in the beginning it is harder. Later after you have more "cheating sobtiety "under your belt, you can do more things. This guy is a trigger and let him know that what you have is important to you and that for now, you must not see him.

Alcoholics also ask God, as they understand him ( a power greater than themselves) to help them thru the situation. To change them.

Now for the Christian part, you have generalized that Christians are self rightious. Not all are. You have posted youreslf not to generalize about the OW, and other topics. Each of us is an individual capable of many thoughts and actions.
It seems that most of us generalize when we really don't understand the other person or thier beliefs.

Katie, I hope this helps.

D.

We are told to do a graditude list

KS,

I didn't give you a definitive answer for several reasons. You have stated them yourself. You have in the past had no issues with relationships that are thought by most to be immoral. You have recently been in a "committed" relationship with SG.

You are "tempted" to do this with this other guy. Why is it a temptation when you have in the past simply done what you wanted? As you have stated SG may well be willing to work it out.

So I don't know how to answer you. I can tell you I think it is wrong to be in a relationship and cheat. But that won't hold much water with you. I can tell you that you run the risk of losing SG, but you don't think that will happen. I can tell you that even if SG stays this will hurt him deeply, but I am not sure that bothers you much.

He is however different that MM's W. You KNOW he cares about you and you KNOW he would be hurt.

So I guess KS, it is really up to you and YOUR morals. But I do have a question. I believe you have a young son. Would you like some woman to do to him what you are thinking about doing to SG? Or do you think it is good that he will grow up with no moral compass and not really know if such an action is a good thing or a bad thing?

KS, believe me you are not leading your life like I would lead it for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, you are also not married to SG, and you are the one you are going to have to face in the morning, especially if SG finds out. I suppose that if SG messed around while you were traveling it wouldn't bother you either.

You see now why I have not been very definitive. You are coming from such a different approach than I. But, I do know that it is never a good idea to knowingly hurt someone,especially someone you claim to like. I think that is pretty universal.

So with that in mind, my recommendation is to teach SG to do this act, show him how much you LOVE it, and leave this other guy alone.

I sure hope something I have said makes sense to you.

JL

KS -
Why create a situation that has to be "worked out" and would only cause pain to your SG and yourself? Betraying someone's trust is no way to say "I love you" - and really, would you want him to do this to you?

Re: sexual act - are you sure SG isn't at all interested in this? Keep trying - he may be.

Is having the experience of this act with another man worth giving up your current relationship -because it may very well happen.

Have you told your SG about this other person, and what meeting him in Chicago may result in? How open is your relationship? Maybe if you confide in your SG you may be surprised.

Just some questions to ask yourself - and as you say - you have two weeks to sort it all out...

KATIE,

When I posted I hadn't read all the comments, I guess they were posting about the same time. It sounds like there is a 12 step sort of thing for xOW? How do I find out more? A friend is struggling tho still very much in a fog. MM is a cakeman.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

*Everybody has temptation but strong people overcome it without cheating. And YES, it IS cheating. Whether you get caught or not.*

This post has been edited to assist the original posting member.

Magnolia

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: MBMagnolia ]</small>

Dear Katie,

Perhaps a way to look at this situation differently is to search yourself and really look at YOUR own views of sexuality, intimacy, and even perhaps what you see as a committed relationship and what these words mean to you&#8230;

First you are not alone in these feelings&#8230;.all of us experience the what if&#8217;s and wouldn&#8217;t I like to&#8230;etc. ALL of us&#8230;. No one should judge you on the thoughts
They are as normal as thinking &#8220;dang that UPS guy is cute in those shorts and wouldn&#8217;t it be fun to see his package&#8221;.&#61514;&#8230;.(OK if you are male just flip the gender <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) But all of us know it&#8217;s true.

Danger and confusion lie in persuing these thoughts into plan&#8230;Not because the thoughts are bad&#8230;but because the choice to follow through is one that can potentially hurt those we care about and our selves&#8230;

We obtain deep committed relationships inspite of our thoughts&#8230;.that it may even be true that it easier to fulfill these thoughts than not to&#8230;but there is a price&#8230;there always is&#8230;

Perhaps if you begin to see the value of you within a committed relationship with SG and begin to look at what you gain from it not what you lose&#8230;the temptation becomes not such a consuming thought but just a fleeting flight of fancy&#8230;Does this deny you of experiences&#8230;yep&#8230;but that is a perception as well, and it can also open up a whole new way of how you view things

To me human sexuality is a precious gift We are the only species that experience it emotionally as well just physically. The more we seek it out with all our ducks lined up in a row, the ability to nuture, share all aspects of our lives, and give freely of ourselves without harming others the more we honor one another and cherish eachother and our own sexuality.

Treating our own sexuality as special does not in any way condemn us to a life of boring sex, but actually does the opposite and gives us the freedom to experience it within it&#8217;s highest form of truly sharing our self worth with another person. Really connecting with meaning&#8230;even quickies, and &#8220;bad girl stuff&#8221; We can all spend our whole lives wondering about and seeking things &#8220;out there&#8221;&#8230;but that is a never ending task with no tangible reward.

Our own sexuality and others should be given great respect.

When you begin to view sexuality in a more deeper sense than just &#8220;an act&#8221; (that whole compartment thinking mentality when it serves to get us what we want)(which all of can do as well) then these thoughts and fantasies have their place in our world but without such great all consuming thoughts and temptations&#8230;.

Here are the red flags I see&#8230;

Sex changes friendships&#8230;it does&#8230;it changes the whole relationship&#8230;It blurs lines and complicates&#8230;and is a huge huge risk both for your friendship, and your relationship with single guy..

Also it is a very slippery slope for any of us to base a decision on an action that carries potential great pain to another. And even more unfair for &#8220;us&#8221; to decide in advance he or she could deal with it and &#8220;work it out&#8221; He might work it out but it doesn&#8217;t remove from the equation that you chose to do something that could really hurt him&#8230;

Look again at the words you use&#8230;but look again on how YOU define them&#8230;I think there in lies your real struggle&#8230;And it&#8217;s not a self esteem issue per say&#8230;but more a different way of viewing the whole aspect of ourselves that is our sexuality. What the word sexuality means to each of us and the value we hold it to.

People in committed relationships have the same thoughts and feelings you do&#8230;but it is and always will be our actions that define us&#8230;

Those that call you names should be ashamed&#8230;no good will come from that&#8230;and serves none of us here any real purpose.

Katie, I hope you find some smidgen of value and understanding in what I am trying to say&#8230;I wish you no malice&#8230;and would hope you can free yourself from what you yourself call your struggles with temptation&#8230;we all struggle with that one&#8230;God knows I order a ton of Christmas presents on the net each year and am just saddened that it is always to cold this time of year for that UPS guy to be in his shorts&#8230;oh how I long for Christmas in July <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wishing you peace
ARK

Hi Katie,

I'm sorry you were vebally attacked, when in reality you were reaching for help.

Shame on all of you who verbally attacked her. She knew her weakness, she was looking for help, so instead of giving her help to encourage her to be strong, you put her down.

All I can suggest is, decide what is important to you. Ask yourself, how would you feel afterwards. Is this worth hurting your SO? Is this worth hurting yourself? If I recall you have a child, correct? This child has bonded with SO, correct, is this worth hurting child over?

Try to stay strong. Avoidance might be the best tactic at this point.

And, you came here first, I saw somewhere how in the past, the old Katie would have acted first and worried about the consequences later. I would say, that you really dont' want to do this, but you are worried you will cave.

Take care, stay strong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sg (well call him sam) and I are in a committed relationship </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frankly i'm sitting here thinking " I can get away with it - why not</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do these two phrases (from the same post) make any sense together? They are contradictory to the max. I don't understand how someone who is in a supposedly committed relationship can engage in pre-meditated deceit.

Don't get it.

KS... My H and I said a prayer for you this morning. He's 7 years in a few weeks.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I feel kind of sorry for you bc I think your priorities are twisted. I'm not trying to bash you for your thoughts and I can clearly see that you are trying to ask for advice. IMO, I think you need to examine why this act is so important to you and if you are committed to your relationship why you couldn't ask for this act from your SG whom you seem to want to be with.

Your attitude seems a little "hardened" and perhaps you are having problems with dealing with your true intimate feelings. Have you discussed with SG how important this act is for you? Try to work within your relationship that you have to make it better and don't complicate it by adding a fantasy with another male. Of course it sounds enticing to meet this OM while you are away. Of course you can get away with it, but that's not the point. You must weigh out the pros and cons of ruining your current relationship for this one act with the OM.

You can probably get any guy you want but it's very hurtful to your SG if you cheat on him. Whether or not he finds out, you will live with this cheating and it will reflect on your relationship with your SG. It will prevent real intimacy between you and SG because you'll have this dirty little secret.

If you really want this act and this fantasy why not discuss this with your SG and perhaps the two of you can do some role playing by meeting at a hotel and doing what you were planning on doing with the OM. Keep this inside of your current relationship. Don't stray. This is much safer than ruining the relationship that you have.

What you chose to do with this temptation will reflect on how you handle other "opportunities" in the future. You need to examine what it is that you REALLY want. Is it REALLY this act, or is it the excitement of knowing someone is interested in you and the fantasy of cheating with this OM.

I hope you will think hard about this and decide against meeting this OM.

WOW KS,
Having an attack of conscience, ey? Or is it an attack of the hornies? Hmmm... Well, we all have a dark side. And I think you are kidding yourself if you think you will get away with anything--meaning your SG won't know. YOU will know and it will bother YOU, especially if you are feeling "tempted" and doubting yourself.

If you have doubts then don't do it. You won't enjoy it and you will be telling yourself later, "something told me not to do this... I should have listened to myself..." That's your spirit talking to you. You should listen. There is a red flag. Pay attention.

I like what others said about pleasure for a season. Seasons change. It's not worth it if you are trying to change. The only part that might be a problem is that you can't change yourself! Only your Creator can change what needs to be changed about you!!! And furthermore, the changes inside of you take place in the Creator's timing and only as you submit yourself. Until you submit, you are subjected to temptation and will always be weak. The Creator's strength is made perfect in our weakness. So technically, it's GOOD to be weak and admit it!

You already know all these things anyway, so I'm not telling you anything you have not heard before, but it's true, KS. Let it sink in. Your conscience is bothering you, you should listen it is a warning from heaven. Your life could be at stake or something that you can't see down the road. We might not know the future, but it's good to know The One Who holds the future.

What if this eric guy has a STD or something? You don't need to have intercourse to catch those...

Temptation comes with all sorts of other factors you don't get to weigh at first glance. All you get to see is the enticing part. You don't get to see the true outcome and by the time you have given in, the consequences hit and you are remorseful.