Well, here's the latest in my series of tough decisions.

I've been told by one of the counselors here (Cerri, who is very wise) that I should e-mail the OM a copy of the Plan A letter that I recently sent in paper form along with a rose to my wife. This was last Thursday. I have not yet and do not expect to receive any response to this from my W, as she seems to have stopped all contact with me. I am debating the pros and cons of sending this letter to OM. It was suggested that I simply state that this is a letter I sent to my W last week, and to ask him to please stop seeing my W so we can work on our M, that he is coming between a married couple.

A copy of that letter is posted at this thread if you care to read it. My wife already has read it, but has not even emailed me since receiving it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=013446;p=3

History of OM: OM is a single co-worker of my WW. Same age as me, different personality completely. He is a punk/rocker-type, I am more of a clean-cut, reserved type for the most part. He smokes, I do not. He does not have a college education, I do. I own my own home and did before I met my WW, he lives with his mother. I work a corporate full-time job, he works a small hourly wage at the company my W works. However, my W I believe in the past has been more attracted to this "type" (the rebellious, punk type) than me. So I worry that this A is not only just because of unmet ENs, but because she is young and realizes she can't be happy with a guy like me.

Anyway, upon learning of A by reading emails sent to him by W, I confronted W on it. She confirmed EA and that they had kissed (on the 2 nights she was out late drinking with him the previous week, so PA had JUST started). I immediately sent OM an e-mail. Told him he had "ruined my marriage" (I know, a dumb thing to say). OM responded and said he did not intend to, and I should take my WW back and make her happy.

That day, at work, OM told my WW how upset he was. He felt horrible by getting the email from me. This upset my W a lot. She consoled him about it. He felt bad for being in the middle and also because his Dad had cheated on his Mom and they had gotten a divorce. That night, after my W consoled him all day, she came home to me. I asked her to work on M and she told me she didn't want to. She told me that it wasn't OM's fault, it was HERS (she DID persue him, I watched this happen in email the following week) and he did not resist very much. My W told me to STOP emailing OM as he was innocent and a "good, nice person" and she was the bad person. I can blame her all I want she said, but leave him alone.

Upsides To E-Mailing letter to OM
---------------------------------
If what my wife told me after D-Day was true, he was affected by my e-mailing him. It upset him. She consoled him, though, and obviously made him feel better about still seeing her. Probably by telling him she is through with me. This may happen again. However, OM may also not even have been TOLD about the letter, or allowed to read it. This may cause friction between my WW and OM, because it will be a crack and reveal that she is not being completely honest to him. Even moreso, I suspect my WW may even be telling OM that I want a Dv and that I don't want her back. This letter to him will allow him to see that is not the case.

Downsides
---------
I know this is going to get RIGHT back to my W. I believe she will see this as a direct, intentional act of mine to sabotage her new relationship and her new happiness. After D-Day, she told me we were over and she did NOT want to work on our M. She said she never wanted to be M and even if it wasn't for OM, she would leave anyway. She then told me I no longer had the right to interfere with her life, and to stop contacting OM and reading her email messages to him. So, I believe that my wife may get VERY, VERY upset at me for doing this. She will see it as a very manipulative, evil thing to do, I believe. After all, if I want her to be happy, if I truly love her, why would I try and end her relationship so directly except for only selfish reasons on my part?

So, in conclusion...Given the fact that their PA has been going on full-time with my W out of the house for a month now, is it too little, too late? I can't help but think it might have been better to let OM know of my intentions towards my W before I let them get more and more attached.

I guess I'm looking for some opinions here. It seems that from other threads regarding this topic, contacting the OP never seems to solve anything. If anything, if makes you look like a fool. However, maybe in some instances it can work. I'm not sure. I am concerned about is what my sending that letter to OM will do to my WW as far as her feelings towards me. I don't see any reason that she won't take that act as anything less than hostile towards her, and as a selfish desperate act by me to somehow get her back. But even if the best thing happened, and OM broke it off out of guilt, why would my WW come back to me? Wouldn't she just resent me? Or even worse, if she DID come back, wouldn't she still long for OM since the A didn't end by his lovebusting, but rather, due to my manipulations?

My wife loved me once, I know she can love me again, especially now that I know how to meet her ENs better. I realize that OM may be making her happy right now, but I don't feel it can last long-term. I just don't want her to realize this before it is too late for us. I am hoping she at least gives our M a chance, and just want to do the right thing for the both of us, not just for myself.

I'd love to hear any "Yay" or "Nay" opinions on this tough call along with the reasons why. Thanks everyone for reading!

ALS

Dear Lost:
It sounds like you have totally thought this through by listing pros and cons - I like that.

I think that before you give up you have to try everything you can to save the marriage. Email the letter. Are you sure she can't intercept? Maybe snail mail the letter?

If it doesn't work out at least you will know that you tried. If you don't do this - you'll never know.

That said, it doesn't sound from your description like you two have a whole lot in common. Even if you try to save your marriage by meeting her ENs she has to reciprocate. Do you think she has that in her?

I'm sorry that I don't know much about your history - age - length of marriage, etc. but I would hate for you to waste your youth (anything less than 40!) on someone who has different values than you.

This is JMVHO. Good Luck.
DB

Should I E-Mail The OM?
No.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She consoled him, though, and obviously made him feel better about still seeing her. Probably by telling him she is through with me. This may happen again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Change "may" to "will".

Don't go there IMHO. However you can rile up the OM my staying involved w/ your Ws life and being super nice to her. Flowers, voice mails etc... This will say to him that your have no intentions of walking away. But don't go too overboard. Keep an even keel as much as possible. Plan A!

He's not a part of your relationship. Don't drag him into it any further.

ALS:

To misquote Eve, when she met Adam for the first time: "Gee, that's a long one."

ALS, the short answer is no. Now, to your question:

"It was suggested that I simply state that this is a letter I sent to my W last week, and to ask him to please stop seeing my W so we can work on our M, that he is coming between a married couple."

While I have great respect for Cerri, do you think OM will be impressed by this? And even if he is and feels guilty as sin for getting involved with your W, who do you think will console him for feeling bad?

"However, my W I believe in the past has been more attracted to this "type" (the rebellious, punk type) than me. So I worry that this A is not only just because of unmet ENs, but because she is young and realizes she can't be happy with a guy like me."

And if this is the case, she's even more likely to run to his defense if your letter upsets him. And if she truly "can't be happy" with a guy like you, do you want to try to win her back?

"She consoled him about it."

Don't need to go into the rest of the details here. You have your precedent. I would predict this will happen again.

"My W told me to STOP emailing OM as he was innocent and a "good, nice person" and she was the bad person. I can blame her all I want she said, but leave him alone."

This is all nonsense, as you know, of course.

"Upsides To E-Mailing letter to OM"

Far outweighed by the downsides.

"However, OM may also not even have been TOLD about the letter, or allowed to read it. This may cause friction between my WW and OM, because it will be a crack and reveal that she is not being completely honest to him."

She's not. She's having an A! He probably doesn't realize she's a liar and a cheat, though, because she's picked him... ...for the moment. But he can't be "educated" any more than your W can. He needs to find this out for himself.

"Downsides"

Far outweighing the upsides.

"I believe she will see this as a direct, intentional act of mine to sabotage her new relationship and her new happiness."

Hm... just what's wrong with sabotaging an A? ;o) Sorry, couldn't resist. Of course it won't work in your favor. She has to decide to come home on her own, not because you gave her no other choice. Also, you WANT her to come back of her on volition.

"She said she never wanted to be M and even if it wasn't for OM, she would leave anyway."

We could probably compile quite a list of BSs on this forum that have heard this. But it would probably take far less space to compile a list of BSs that have NOT been told this than have!

"After all, if I want her to be happy, if I truly love her, why would I try and end her relationship so directly except for only selfish reasons on my part?"

Good question. Obviously, you want to do this for her own good, because she is demonstrating an inability to make this decision on her own. But the truth is that she HAS to make this decision for herself, in her own time. This is agony, I know, but it's the only way to deal with an active A.

"So, in conclusion...Given the fact that their PA has been going on full-time with my W out of the house for a month now, is it too little, too late?"

Yes.

"I can't help but think it might have been better to let OM know of my intentions towards my W before I let them get more and more attached."

This wouldn't have made any difference, believe me.

"But even if the best thing happened, and OM broke it off out of guilt, why would my WW come back to me? Wouldn't she just resent me? Or even worse, if she DID come back, wouldn't she still long for OM since the A didn't end by his lovebusting, but rather, due to my manipulations?"

These are the precise reasons you want her A to die on its own. Like WAT says, "Don't interfere!"

"My wife loved me once, I know she can love me again, especially now that I know how to meet her ENs better."

She probably loves you now, but she's distracted and doesn't realize it.

"I realize that OM may be making her happy right now, but I don't feel it can last long-term. I just don't want her to realize this before it is too late for us."

And for this reason, you want to stay with plan A, and try to distract yourself from this what-iffing you're doing. It's hard, but there really is nothing you can do to hasten the demise of the A. It will end when it does, and not before. You MIGHT prolong it by contacting the OM. You have a better chance of winning your W back by being desirable to come back to. Vindictive people are not very attractive.

"I am hoping she at least gives our M a chance, and just want to do the right thing for the both of us, not just for myself."

But this statement is really all about you and what you believe is right. It may be right for you to reconcile, but it also might not be. You need to let her figure out what she wants/needs and what's right for her to do on her own.

I have mixed feelings about it. I was in contact with 2 of the OW via e-mail and telephone after they found out about me. Both of them betrayed my so-called "friendship" with them and accepted renewed contact from WH.

I sent a combined e-mail to all the OW to ask them to stop talking to my WH and signed it from a W who loves her H and wants her marriage to work. Sometimes, I think that it appealed to their integrous humane side, other times I think they are laughing at how pathetic I am.

Follow your heart. Let it sit for a few days before you make a decision. As for her being mad, who cares? She is in the fog and won't "get it" right now anyway.

This is the subject of hot debate here. I pondered cerri's advice, to confront OM, too. Ultimately I chose not to do so because it turned the focus away from me and MY relationship with my wife. (But I did choose to keep the thought in my bag of tricks should I need it ... I mean, really, what do I care if he's uncomfortable?) The difference is that my wife was at home -- but looking for an apartment -- and had resumed speaking to me in a friendly manner at the time. Your circumstance is quite different. If you choose cerri's path, which is Harley MB to the letter, the confrontation for you is a must. As is informing their employer ... as is any number of other ways of blowing the lid off the A. Just hang on because it WILL get worse before it gets better.

Who is to say whether such contact with OM would be too little, too late? Remember that most As die within six months and usually because the OP ends it. If you contact OM, you fear that your wife's resentment toward you will keep her from returning to you. That may, indeed, be the case. But I trust that the Harleys method is that way for a reason ... that human behavior, as predictable as it is, has shown the Harleys that if you do X, then Y is a likely outcome.

Judging from I read in this post from you, it could be that Plan B is right around the corner. Is this an unfair assessment? If this is, in fact, the case, a Plan B letter should be sent to both your wife and OM (identical to your wife's but with a P.S. to him directly). The decision is then made for you.

On another note, fogspeak never fails to astound me. You got some doozies:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... My W told me to STOP emailing OM as he was innocent and a "good, nice person" and she was the bad person. I can blame her all I want she said, but leave him alone. ... She then told me I no longer had the right to interfere with her life, and to stop contacting OM and reading her email messages to him. So, I believe that my wife may get VERY, VERY upset at me for doing this. She will see it as a very manipulative, evil thing to do, I believe. After all, if I want her to be happy, if I truly love her, why would I try and end her relationship so directly except for only selfish reasons on my part? ...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ December 11, 2002, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Nope. Dont bother with him. You already know stuff is going on. He wont do anything anyway. I knew OW in m y case & asked her to back down etc. She just went full speed ahead with her seduction plan and manipulation & lies & made things worse. H believed HER over ME. It becomes a challenge to the OP, who WS wants to be with & a game to both of them. They live in la-la FOG land & will twist the truth whatever way necessary so as not to make themselves feel bad. Its not worth your time.

You wrote the letter etc. No one can force a change & you might end up with only a False recovery which will hurt alot more than the initial finding out of all of this. Let it go visually. Dont let them see you upset etc. Act strong on the outside even though on the inside you will waver from fantasies of killing them both to wanting to bury your head in the ground from depression. Try to stay busy on your own & with male friends.

I'm gonna disagree with Chris for a change and say "send it."

My rationale is very simple. It's customary to send OP a copy of a Plan B letter, solely to make sure OP knows the BS wants to save the marriage given the reasonable assumption that the WS has lied that the BS wants to end it. Same thing here. Your WS very likely has lied to OM that you're already gone; maybe already have a new girlfriend.

IMHO, send it. But first, print out this entire post and discuss the advice you've received with Cerri if you have an opportunity.

Hello ALS, remember me? I was just looking for you over at PA/PB. I know I've already gien you my take on this, but just to stick my nose in again, SEND THE LETTER!!!!!! Cerri has given you great advice already, has she been wrong yet? This is what she does, she knows what she is doing. SEND THE LETTER!!!! If nothing else, for my sake before I explode with anticipation. He is not a "good, nice" guy, if he was, would he be screwing around with a married woman???? After I confronted OM#3 (best thing I did) he LB'd big time to my W. I'm not saying that will happen. The Harley's even say that this type of thing may drive the WS into the arms of the lover. But it also brings things into the light of day and lets the OP know/reminds them, that there is a real person on the other end of their A. I know this is a tough decision to make, but don't make this any easier on him, or her for that matter. POJA only applies when both spouses are in a M together. When it comes to saving your M, all bets are OFF!. After all, did they consider your feelings when they jumped in the sack?? I know that's an immature way to look at it, and I'm not saying you should drop down to their level, but they BOTH need to know you are still committed to saving your M. And if it doesn't work out, you get a D, when her new R doesnt' work out either she can look back at you and realize maybe what a great person she let slip away. JMVHO

Sorry WAT you posted just before I did.

IMHO, send it. But first, print out this entire post and discuss the advice you've received with Cerri if you have an opportunity.

GREAT ADVICE ALS!!!!! TAKE IT!!!!! PLEASE!!!! I THINK I'M GONNA BLOW SOON!!!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT:

I guess you're suggestion here surprises me, considering you are the author of "don't interfere".

Not that I'm saying that it isn't worth a try ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )... Just that experiments with broken Ms seem a little risky to me.

On the other hand, if ALS does send the letter, I'll be very interested in hearing of the result, if there is any.

Go carefully, ALS

This has been a very active thread. I dig this!

First off, please KEEP GOING. I am taking all of this in, and I'm enjoying reading both sides of the story.

I spoke with Cerri today, and she made a lot of sense about why I SHOULD send this letter, eventually. She also understands that sending it TODAY may not be a good idea, if Plan A is doing anything at all. As of now, I have had ZERO contact from my WW for the past few weeks. All attempts to reach her have not been returned. Cerri suggests I give it another 2 weeks of attempting to contact her, email, maybe a phone call. If, after those 2 weeks, NOTHING is changing, and WW is still avoiding contact, SEND THE LETTER.

At that point, if contact from WW is still nil, she thinks it's time to go into Plan B anyway, so whether I send that original letter to him and a Plan B letter to her, or he gets BOTH letters, we'll figure that one out later. And really, if my wife has ignored me for a month and a half, especially around the holidays, I figure sending that letter to OM can't make things any worse. In fact, I am pretty sure that my WW has told OM I don't want her back, and that we agreed to break up. That letter should at least give him something to think about. He'll see that maybe WW hasn't been truthful with him. And maybe he'll feel a bit of guilt for being the "OM".

I suppose in the end, as those of you who agree that I should send the letter say, it all depends on the person. Sending it may cause LB to happen between WW and OM, or it may bring them even closer together.

So, as it stands right now, I'm going to stay in Plan A for another 2 weeks as Cerri recommends. Then, it's Plan B time (right around Christmas, she suggested) and time to send that letter.

Feel free to throw out some more responses!!! I'll probably change my mind on this process 20 times between now and Christmas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ALS

T-zero - fair enough. Yep, I usually recommend non-interference, and I don't claim to be the author - this idea prevails.

In this case, he's not interfering, per se, in an atempt to break up the affairees. Rather, he'd be making his intentions known to an OP who likely is hearing the opposite. Given this OP is single - not risking his own marriage - the thought of participating in the destruction of a marriage may appeal to his better senses.

But I admit this may be lost on the affairees and the result may be the same as if he was attempting guerilla warfare. Hence, talk it over with Cerri to get an unbiased opinion.

WAT

ALS ... it seems you trust the coaching you've gotten from cerri so far. I recommend that you continue on the path she's leading you down for one reason and one reason alone: consistency. It's okay to solicit the opinions of the folks here on the board. I understand that the rollercoaster ride and this life we lead is a haven for indecision. The thing that keeps coming back to me is that a well defined plan and a consistent application of it is critical to success.

ALS,

Some aspects of your situation sound similar to mine.

Whatever your W sees in her OM, if you have correctly described him, she will eventually figure out that he lacks some very important characteristics which you possess. Amongst those is the ability to support her in good style. Since she is working, I assume that she is not completely dependent on you, but still, she enjoys some benefits of your "lifestyle". If you remain consistent - avoiding LB's, there is a good chance that the A will come to the point where she begins to notice OM's deficiencies (sp?) and remember your strong points in contrast. It will happen. There is no guarantee that you will win in that event, but it will certainly happen that the blush will fade from this apple, and it might even start to look rotten to her. Meanwhile, you need to be the best you that you can be. Avoid LB's.

Have you read Dobson's "Love must be tough"? I'm no expert, but I think it is important to stop chasing her. When you stop calling, emailing etc., then she will begin to know that she might lose you. Right now, she can hold you in reserve. As long as you are chasing her, she can keep pushing you away - saying she is finished etc., but when you stop pursuing, she will stop running. She won't come back immediately - and realisticly, may never come back, but I think that leaving off the persuit (sp?) would be a positive step for you. In Dobson's words, you have to "let the bird out of the cage". Eventually, she might fly back in.

From my own experience, when I stopped calling, she started calling - or just showing up. When I suddenly became hard to find, she really started worrying about it.

As to your original question, I say "no". In my experience, it did no good for me to contact OM. Actually, I think it is best to ignore him. He is only a symptom, not the problem. He is clearly not a decent man, or he would not be involved with a married woman. Appealing to his decency is futile. Why would he care what you have to say? Other than directly influencing him, contacting OM is a round-about way of communication with your W - and as I said before, I think you need to "go dark" for awhile.

-AD

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>